Mr_Anony:
Wow, ever heard of something called willful ignorance?

Jenwitemi: Guilty of that, aren't we all? You included.

Mr_Anony:
Not all of us. I can't speak for myself but I like to think I am not

Jenwitemi: Oh really? You are one of the biggest sufferers of willfull ignorance on NR religion forum, if you must know. You can't know this because this "sickness" extends to you not knowing that you suffer under it, too.

Mr_Anony:
Nice selective quoting you did there...

F00028:
you like it huh? yeah i thought it was pretty neat too. in any case you know what you posted.

and I see your point quite clearly. i just find it irrational and dont accept it.

question: when you say justice and mercy are mutually exclusive and then you say God is a Merciful and Just, how does that work?
does it mean when He's being Merciful He's an unjust God and vice versa?

F00028: @Mr Anony @Jenwitemi
guys, play nice
and Mr Anony stop being so dam.n judgemental.

Mr_Anony:

As for your question, God is merciful because in a sense, He has already forgiven you.

Mr_Anony:
Justice and mercy are mutually exclusive: To forgive means to withhold justice.

Mr_Anony:

His forgiveness is readily available should you repent and ask for it. The question is will you choose to repent and forsake your sins?
Where you choose not to ask for his forgiveness and repent, you leave Him no other choice than to deliver justice by punishing you for your sins as you deserve.

Mr_Anony:

What does that mean for you? if sin was such that anytime you sin, God will just forgive like that without you paying any price...

F00028:

then by your definition the biblical God is an unjust God


and then you say:


just ask for it? did you forget you said:


maybe you should go through your own posts thoroughly and see if you can come up with a more coherent idea of who God is and how He deals with the issues of sin, repentance and punishment because thus far you are not making much sense.

Mr_Anony:
Wow....this shows you have not been paying attention plus you are quoting me out of context. I'll do this one last time.
The reason why forgiveness is readily available to you is because Jesus has already paid the price for all sin, that way God has already punished sin and atoned for it. God offers Christ to you. when you refuse to accept him then basically you have condemned yourself in a sense.

Please go through our discussion properly without looking for parts to selectively quote out of context. I believe you have already understood what I have been saying but you want to see how far you can push me. Oh well, I can't help you that much can I?

F00028:

is everything about the christian religion this irrational or is it you?

how can it be called forgiveness if Jesus has already paid

how can you accept repyment for a debt and still claim to write it off

it seems your way is constant repitition of your untennable views no matter how fundamentally flawed they are.

Mr_Anony:
Wow, here we go again......

The point is you owe a debt, your creditor forgives your debt at his own cost, he then tells you that he has forgiven your debt and what it cost him to do so but you say it is irrational. You leave him no choice than to collect the debt from you since you insist on paying it.

Christianity is that simple.

Mr_Anony:
Wow, here we go again......

The point is you owe a debt, your creditor forgives your debt at his own cost, he then tells you that he has forgiven your debt and what it cost him to do so but you say it is irrational. You leave him no choice than to collect the debt from you since you insist on paying it.

Christianity is that simple.

crosbreaka:

In that case it is not my business and it doesn't make sense if the creditor sells his own son into slavery to have the money I am owing him and to forgive me.if he likes he can put a pistol in his a$$ and fire! If he is to write my debt off and can afford to,I wonder what is the use of destroying the life of his own son and then tell me what it costs him.it shows my damage to his budget is irreparable,he couldn't afford to forgive my debt without a cost and I ended up free without being bothered.it also shows the creditor is stupid,to add more injury to himself to forgive another injury.he had to sell his son into slavery to write off my debt and tell me with a smile 'I forgive you and this was the cost'!olodo!

Funnier christians believe he so loved the world to torture his son and kill him for sinners who have not stopped sinning and humanity that have not stopped dying and suffering.yet still we are back to square one:we are threatened by bible thumpers if we don believe in the gift of salvation before it is given unto us,and we sin we would end up burning in fire.

This apart from being silly,incoherent,contradicyory and funny,it is fraudulent!

crosbreaka:

In that case it is not my business and it doesn't make sense if the creditor sells his own son into slavery to have the money I am owing him and to forgive me.if he likes he can put a pistol in his a$$ and fire! If he is to write my debt off and can afford to,I wonder what is the use of destroying the life of his own son and then tell me what it costs him.it shows my damage to his budget is irreparable,he couldn't afford to forgive my debt without a cost and I ended up free without being bothered.it also shows the creditor is stupid,to add more injury to himself to forgive another injury.he had to sell his son into slavery to write off my debt and tell me with a smile 'I forgive you and this was the cost'!olodo!

Funnier christians believe he so loved the world to torture his son and kill him for sinners who have not stopped sinning and humanity that have not stopped dying and suffering.yet still we are back to square one:we are threatened by bible thumpers if we don believe in the gift of salvation before it is given unto us,and we sin we would end up burning in fire.

This apart from being silly,incoherent,contradicyory and funny,it is fraudulent!

F00028:

He didn't forgive, He punished Jesus instead!

really, how can this be so hard for you to see? its right in front of you.

crosbreaka:

In that case it is not my business and it doesn't make sense if the creditor sells his own son into slavery to have the money I am owing him and to forgive me.if he likes he can put a pistol in his a$$ and fire! If he is to write my debt off and can afford to,I wonder what is the use of destroying the life of his own son and then tell me what it costs him.it shows my damage to his budget is irreparable,he couldn't afford to forgive my debt without a cost and I ended up free without being bothered.it also shows the creditor is stupid,to add more injury to himself to forgive another injury.he had to sell his son into slavery to write off my debt and tell me with a smile 'I forgive you and this was the cost'!olodo!

Funnier christians believe he so loved the world to torture his son and kill him for sinners who have not stopped sinning and humanity that have not stopped dying and suffering.yet still we are back to square one:we are threatened by bible thumpers if we don believe in the gift of salvation before it is given unto us,and we sin we would end up burning in fire.

This apart from being silly,incoherent,contradicyory and funny,it is fraudulent!

Mr_Anony:
Nah this is where you missed it. God took upon Himself the punishment for our sin by coming as Jesus Christ. Justice had to be served and the Judge Himself chose to pay the price because He loves us.

obadiah777: YOU ARE RIGHT IN YOUR ANALYSIS AND THE TRUTH IS CHRIST ONLY DIED FOR THE FIRST FRUIT. THE REST OF US PAY FOR OUR SINS EVERYDAY. ITS CALLED THE LAW OF KARMA ( GALATIANS 6 VS 7 )

Mr_Anony:
I smile and I laugh.......Have you ever been in love? if I may ask

crosbreaka:

Good to know you believe in an emotional lover (instead of rational husband) as your god.prepare yourself for many heartbreaks-made in your heaven!!!

MacDaddy01:


Your God was too foolish to just forgive without murder of Jesus?

Do you need to sacrifice something before you forgive your children?



Anony you are as foolish as your imaginary god

crosbreaka:

... it doesn't make sense if the creditor sells his own son into slavery to have the money I am owing him and to forgive me...

crosbreaka:

What kind of unfair treatment is this?

What makes them 'first fruit'? Why must they not pay for their own sins while others must?and you call the 144000 'elect'? It is like choosing among armed robbers and cocaine peddlers to become government ministers and passing a bill in parliament to forgive them,worse your god had to kill his son before he allows that bill to be passed by himself!!!

Whether you claim he died for everyone or just some,you're all crazy.crazy firstly because you believe a loving father had to kill his own son before he can accept himself to forgive for another crime against him.secondly for believing in human sacrifice.yuck!

obadiah777: LET ME SEE HOW I CAN EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU. EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD HAD AN EQUAL SHOT AT SALVATION. NO PREFERENCES. EVERYBODY HAD THE SAME SHOT. FROM THE CREATION OF THE WORLD WE ALL EXISTED BEFORE ( I KNOW THIS IS A HARD CONCEPT TO GRASP ) AND WE ALL HAD AN EQUAL SHOT AT BEING PICKED AS FIRST FRUITS. HOWEVER THE LORD IS LOOKING FOR A CERTAIN NUMBER OF GOOD MEN WHO WILL LEAD THE EARTH WHEN HIS RIGHTEOUS KINGDOM IS ESTABLISHED. ALL THIS SUFFER HEAD WE ARE DOING ON EARTH NOW ? IT IS REHEARSAL FOR THE PERMANENT KINGDOM ON EARTH. SO ANYWAY THE FIRST PEOPLE TO BE PICKED TO RUN THIS PERMANENT KINGDOM HAVE TO BE PICKED FIRST. WE ALL ARE IN THE WORLD FROM THE START JUST MESSING UP AS USUAL DOING OUR OWN THING WORSHIPPING ALL KINDS OF IDOL, STEALING, KILLING AND ROBBING ( SAME STUFF WE STILL DO TODAY. NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN ). OVER THE GENERATIONS AND GENERATIONS THE LORD SEEKS OUT THE BEST OF THE BEST. WHILE THE REST ARE TOO BUSY KILLING STEALING FORNICATING AND WORSHIPPING IDOLS. I DONT KNOW HOW MANY GENERATIONS IT TOOK HIM TO GET THE 144,000 BUT I AM SURE IT MUST HAVE BEEN OVER 10 GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE. BUT TRUST ME, EVEN YOU HAD A CHANCE TO BE PART OF THE 144,000 ( ECCLESIASTES 1 VS 11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. ). SO BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, IS IT FAIR HE PICKED 144,000 ? EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE SO YES IT IS FAIR.

Mr_Anony:
Lol, do you want to have a rational discourse or are you more interested in just hearing your mocking voice scoff at what you don't understand?

crosbreaka:

Please shut-up.

Someone talking love cannot have a rational discourse.you got pages to be rational but I'm seeing is contradiction and amusement.

crosbreaka:

So if they were good virtuos men chosen to be part of the 'elect' why did Jesus had to die for only them? So in your own theory Jesus died for the virtuos and not the sinners?

And saying they must be 144000 sounds like something already decided and sealed no matter how good one more person could be to become 144001.

obadiah777: CUZ EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE GOOD AND VIRTUOUS, THEY ARE STILL HUMANS. THEY STILL COMMIT SOME FORM OF SINS HOWEVER THEY DID NOT COMMIT SOME OF THE ULTIMATE SINS LIKE WORSHIPPING IDOLS. REVELATION 14 VS 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. SO THEY DID NOT FORNICATE SPIRITUALLY WITH IDOLS. THEY DID NOT JOIN THEMSELVES TO IDOLS. IDOLS ARE CALLED WOMEN IN THAT VERSE. BUT I DIGRESS, THEY ARE NOT PERFECT AND I AM SURE THEY HAVE SOME MINOR SINS THEY COMMIT. HOWEVER THE LORD WANTS THEIR SPIRIT TO PERMANENTLY RESIDE IN HEAVEN ( MEANING WHILE THEY ARE ON EARTH HE WANTS TO HAVE A 24 7 ACCESS TO THEIR SPIRIT ). COMMITTING SINS STOPS THAT 24 7 ACCESS. SIN KILLS YOUR SPIRIT AND DETACHES IT FROM GOD. SO HOW DOES HE MAINTAIN A 24 7 ACCESS TO HIS ELECT SO THAT THROUGH THEM HE CAN CONTINUE TO RUN HIS SHOW ON EARTH ? HE NEEDS 24 7 ACCESS TO THEM. AND SINCE THEY ARE STILL LIVING IN THE WORLD THEY ARE STILL VULNERABLE TO SIN. SO HE SENDS CHRIST TO HANG THEIR SIN ON THE CROSS. THIS WAY EVEN THEIR MINOR SINS WILL NOT INTERRUPT THE 24 7 ACCESS. THIS IS WHAT THE TRINITARIANS CALL THE TRINITY. THE SYNC OF THE FATHER, THE BLOOD OF CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IN MAN. THESE 3 ENTITY COMPLETE THE CIRCLE OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL AND THE PHYSICAL REALM.

crosbreaka:

How does Jesus dying for what you call minor sins make them perfect or at least eligible for his 'heavenly government' to make them 'elect'? It is like knowing someone is kind and good but who is a thief and cannot do without tampering with what belong to others,so you decide to give him millions to dissuade him from stealing and hand over your business to him.he may still steal.that is a practical example of appeasement.but I fail to see how someone dying or killing himself as a sacrifice can dissuade me from even minor sins or can make me perfect.based on your explanation it is no longer a blank cheque of eternal bliss to whoever believe in the 'magical' blood.rather it is based on merit of being good.so how does a sacrifice given,not offered,makes anyone good? It is either they're good and can change or repent even without any blood sacrifice,be it of human or animal,or they wouldn't regardless of sacrifice.

I should also bring to your notice that aside from the 144000 in heaven you believe in,there are also those in paradise who would gain salvation and eternal life.then what is the difference between the two? If those in paradise got salvation by themselves,then they're more deserving than those a price was given to and didn't merit it.this leave your doctrine and faith in crucifixion useless and null.Jesus could as well choose any of those in paradise to 'assist' him.