[size=15pt]1 John 5:20[/size]

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
20 and we have known that the Son of God is come, and hath given us a mind, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ; this one is the true God and the life age-during!

New Living Translation (NLT)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us understanding so that we can know the true God.[a] And now we live in fellowship with the true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the only true God, and he is eternal life.

New Life Version (NLV)
20 We know God’s Son has come. He has given us the understanding to know Him Who is the true God. We are joined together with the true God through His Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and the life that lasts forever.

New King James Version (NKJV)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.


New International Version (NIV)
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

The Message (MSG)
18-21 We know that none of the God-begotten makes a practice of sin—fatal sin. The God-begotten are also the God-protected. The Evil One can’t lay a hand on them. We know that we are held firm by God; it’s only the people of the world who continue in the grip of the Evil One. And we know that the Son of God came so we could recognize and understand the truth of God—what a gift!—and we are living in the Truth itself, in God’s Son, Jesus Christ. This Jesus is both True God and Real Life. Dear children, be on guard against all clever facsimiles.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true One.[a] We are in the true One—that is, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
20 We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

English Standard Version (ESV)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding. So now we can know the one who is true, and we live in that true God. We are in his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God, and he is eternal life.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
20 And we [have seen and] know [positively] that the Son of God has [actually] come to this world and has given us understanding and insight [progressively] to perceive (recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah). This [Man] is the true God and Life eternal.

This verse has ACTUALLY and completely CHANGED and ENHANCED my understanding to better understand Trinity. I will like this verse to be an open discussion and especially for the ANTI-TRINITARIANS to discuss their understand of this scripture. I love to read the view/interpretation of the anti-trinitarians on the scriptures. Trinitarians are also free to contribute. Thank you.

(I have my legs crossed with pop corn and soda in front of the computer waiting to read from both sides)

every single version of that verse makes it clear that yeshwa and yahweh are different entities.if after reading it,you felt it was in favour of trinity,i have to question your comprehension skills

Brother Goshen , you have to stop scoring own goals


"20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us understanding so that we can know the true God.[a] And now we live in fellowship with the true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the only true God, and he is eternal life." - 1 John 5:20

1. Son of God has come
2. He has given us understanding that we can know the true GOD
3. and now we have fellowship with the true GOD
4. Because we have fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ
4. He is the true GOD
5. He is eternal life.

Now look at this again point by point and tell me if it fits the bill according to your expectation.

Point 4 is clearly referring to the one and true GOD who Jesus Christ came to reveal.

Otherwise can you explain the beginnig verse of this chapter which goes :

" Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. " - 1 John 5:1

Delafruita: every single version of that verse makes it clear that yeshwa and yahweh are different entities.if after reading it,you felt it was in favour of trinity,i have to question your comprehension skills

@Goshen
For someone who so much believes in searching the scriptures and holding on to biblical truth i am suprised that you are still holding on to this pagan doctrine that has no basis in scripture. Even the scriptures you quoted above makes it clear that Jesus the son is a seperate entity from his father who is the almighty God. I would rather you just leave this issue to rest. Your salvation does not depend onbelieving the trinity concept and all this verses trinitarians keep bringig up to support the doctrine can be interpereted in ways that contradict the doctrine. There is not one single verse in the whole bible that suggests or states that God is three in one or one in three. It is totally alien to scriptures and it has roman pagan origins. Let us stop adding to scriptures or forcing opinions into it.

See as you guys are just running away from what the verse says.........Who is the TRUE GOD according to this verse?

Pastor Kun:



@Goshen
For someone who so much believes in searching the scriptures and holding on to biblical truth i am suprised that you are still holding on to this pagan doctrine that has no basis in scripture. Even the scriptures you quoted above makes it clear that Jesus the son is a seperate entity from his father who is the almighty God. I would rather you just leave this issue to rest. Your salvation does not depend onbelieving the trinity concept and all this verses trinitarians keep bringig up to support the doctrine can be interpereted in ways that contradict the doctrine. There is not one single verse in the whole bible that suggests or states that God is three in one or one in three. It is totally alien to scriptures and it has roman pagan origins. Let us stop adding to scriptures or forcing opinions into it.

Right it doesn't depend of salvation BUT to deny the deity of Christ as God is what the anti-trinitarian is all about and this is even more contrary to scriptures. On the contrary, trinity teaching/doctrine is NOT a pagan originated teachings/doctrine but a bible doctrine. Also, I guess you don't understand the concept of trinity - it does not say there are THREE God(s) BUT ONE GOD who manifest Himself in Three divine and eternal being. This is the nature of God, NOT man.

Delafruita: every single version of that verse makes it clear that yeshwa and yahweh are different entities.if after reading it,you felt it was in favour of trinity,i have to question your comprehension skills

We don't have to understand the same way..... For we know in part.....

Goshen360: See as you guys are just running away from what the verse says.........Who is the TRUE GOD according to this verse?

According to this verse the TRUE GOD is the father of Jesus christ.

Pastor Kun:

According to this verse the TRUE GOD is the father of Jesus christ.

What then do you say to this translationS.....

Goshen360:

The Message (MSG)
18-21 We know that none of the God-begotten makes a practice of sin—fatal sin. The God-begotten are also the God-protected. The Evil One can’t lay a hand on them. We know that we are held firm by God; it’s only the people of the world who continue in the grip of the Evil One. And we know that the Son of God came so we could recognize and understand the truth of God—what a gift!—and we are living in the Truth itself, in God’s Son, Jesus Christ. [size=15pt]This Jesus is both True God[/size] and Real Life. Dear children, be on guard against all clever facsimiles.


GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
20 We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. [size=15pt]This Jesus Christ is the real God[/size] and eternal life.

Abi make we start dey query translationS ni ......

Goshen360:

Right it doesn't depend of salvation BUT to deny the deity of Christ as God is what the anti-trinitarian is all about and this is even more contrary to scriptures. On the contrary, trinity teaching/doctrine is NOT a pagan originated teachings/doctrine but a bible doctrine. Also, I guess you don't understand the concept of trinity - it does not say there are THREE God(s) BUT ONE GOD who manifest Himself in Three divine and eternal being. This is the nature of God, NOT man.

There is no doubt about the deity of christ. Christ is the son of the Almighy God so that automatically bestows divinity on him. Also kindly quote one scripture in the bible which clearly states that God manifests himslf in three divine and eternal beings.

Pastor Kun:

There is no doubt about the deity of christ. Christ is the son of the Almighy God so that automatically bestows divinity on him. Also kindly quote one scripture in the bible which clearly states that God manifests himslf in three divine and eternal beings.

Bros....abeg cool down. I know you are at beef with this trinity stuff. It is not a salvation issue and same is tithing but when the bible says something, it doesn't necessarily have to go well with us or you. The bible does not explictly mention "trinity" just like other words we have today just to explain a concept/teaching. Let us treat the bible not Goshen.....okay.

Now this verse (from other translation) clearly says Jesus is the TRUE GOD......Am asking, how do you understand this?......because the thing baffle me sef and na only una anti-trinity that can explain it......So Pastor please explain this.......HOW DOES JESUS BECOME THE TRUE GOD according to this verse?

Frosbel

And I will pray the Father,
and he shall give you another Comforter,
that he may abide with you forever John 14:16 KJV

Explain that.

I and Father.

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN
I WILL PRAY MYSELF

Goshen360:

What then do you say to this translationS.....



Abi make we start dey query translation ni ......

Those translatations were probably done by trinitarians trying to force their opinion on christianity. Bible history is full of several attempts by trinitarians twisting translations to suit the trinity doctrine.

Pastor Kun:

Those translatations were probably done by trinitarians trying to force their opinion on christianity. Bible history is full of several attempts by trinitarians twisting translations to suit the trinity doctrine.

[size=20pt]Pastor.......Is this YOU?[/size]

Goshen360:

Bros....abeg cool down. I know you are at beef with this trinity stuff. It is not a salvation issue and same is tithing but when the bible says something, it doesn't necessarily have to go well with us or you. The bible does not explictly mention "trinity" just like other words we have today just to explain a concept/teaching. Let us treat the bible not Goshen.....okay.

Now this verse (from other translation) clearly says Jesus is the TRUE GOD......Am asking, how do you understand this?......because the thing baffle me sef and na only una anti-trinity that can explain it......So Pastor please explain this.......HOW DOES JESUS BECOME THE TRUE GOD according to this verse?

I don't think there is anything funny about trying to twist scripture.

Stay with the bible and you will not miss road.

Besides your deeper life brother Ola believes that we are all going to hell because we do not agree with the tithe and trinity doctrines.

Na wa oh...Frost-belly vs. Ghost-sheng vs. Ola-Day-goo all over the section...this trinity matter don serious lol.

JeSoul: Na wa oh...Frost-belly vs. Ghost-sheng vs. Ola-Day-goo all over the section...this trinity matter don serious lol.

Yes, it's serious o...... because Frosbel is denying the deity of christ as GOD and this is unscriptural to biblical teachings. I want to laugh this weekend. Stay in house my sister.....you go laugh tire.

Goshen360:

Yes, it's serious o...... because Frosbel is denying the deity of christ as GOD and this is unscriptural to biblical teachings. I want to laugh this weekend. Stay in house my sister.....you go laugh tire.

Brother , now you adding a LIE to my stance, SMH.

Where did I say that Jesus is not Divine

My consistent statement all along is that Jesus is not Yahweh , period.

Despite hundreds of bible verses to back this perspective you seem to be prefer tradition to the word of GOD.

Let us tread carefully !

JeSoul: Na wa oh...Frost-belly vs. Ghost-sheng vs. Ola-Day-goo all over the section...this trinity matter don serious lol.

If for no be Tight and Trinity matter wetin we wan talk?

frosbel:

I don't think there is anything funny about [size=15pt]trying to twist scripture.[/size]

You mean am writing the scriptures by myself? The way you quote from NIV, I have also quoted from many translations and TWO of those translation......even more clearly says THIS Jesus is the TRUE GOD......Is that TWISTING SCRIPTURES?

frosbel:

Stay with the bible and you will not miss road.

Off course, I am STAYING with the bible....that is the reason I gave many translation. Pastor Kun had been knocked OUT in this thread because the ONLY reason he gave was that, such translations were written by trinitarians.....So how do we know those who are not trinitarian translators and those who are not as if (anti)trinitarian is a criteria to bible translation.

frosbel:

Besides your deeper life brother Ola believes that we are all going to hell because we do not agree with the tithe and trinity doctrines.

If this is what Ola is saying.....my response is, it is NOT Goshen that said it. I leave Ola to his words and if he truly said the above statement.....such words is error and I don't support it.

Pastor Kun:

There is no doubt about the deity of christ. Christ is the son of the Almighy God so that automatically bestows divinity on him. Also kindly quote one scripture in the bible which clearly states that God manifests himslf in three divine and eternal beings.

Bros abeg i am still waiting for an answer to the highlighted.

frosbel:

Brother , now you adding a LIE to my stance, SMH.

Where did I say that Jesus is not Divine

My consistent statement all along is that Jesus is not Yahweh , period.

Despite hundreds of bible verses to back this perspective you seem to be prefer tradition to the word of GOD.

Let us tread carefully !

What was your explanation recently on John 1:1 E be like say this "Trinity" is bigger than you now ooo

Pastor Kun:

Bros abeg i am still waiting for an answer to the highlighted.

Throughout the scripture......GOD is ONE. In the divine nature, (NOT human) GOD manifest himself through three divine nature and being.....is that too difficult for you to understand? Okay, let's start with this scripture and you tell me what it means.......

New International Version (©1984)
Now [size=15pt]the Lord is the Spirit[/size], and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 2 Cor. 3:17 NIV

According to this scripture.....Who is the Lord? .......and Who is the Spirit

Goshen360:

Pastor Kun had been knocked OUT in this thread because the ONLY reason he gave was that, such translations were written by trinitarians.....So how do we know those who are not trinitarian translators and those who are not as if (anti)trinitarian is a criteria to bible translation.

Bros if out of a hundred bible translations of the same verse only two ascribe Jesus to be the true God shouldn't that raise alarm bells? I maintain that you don't have any point, you are merely chasing shadows as the doctrine of trinity contradicts scripture and is not biblically sound. Meanwhile you have an outstanding kweshun to answer.

Goshen360:

Bros....abeg cool down. I know you are at beef with this trinity stuff. It is not a salvation issue and same is tithing but when the bible says something, it doesn't necessarily have to go well with us or you. The bible does not explictly mention "trinity" just like other words we have today just to explain a concept/teaching. Let us treat the bible not Goshen.....okay.

Now this verse (from other translation) clearly says Jesus is the TRUE GOD......Am asking, how do you understand this?......because the thing baffle me sef and na only una anti-trinity that can explain it......So Pastor please explain this.......HOW DOES JESUS BECOME THE TRUE GOD according to this verse?

as a bible student you should know this scripture:

"No man have come to know the mind of God, but we know the mind of christ"

but christ knows the mind of God.

Meaning?

That is how we have come to know the mind of God through knowing the mind of christ since christ knows the mind of God.
Peace

truthislight:

as a bible student you shouknow this scripture:

"No man have come to know the mind of God, but we know the mind of christ"

but christ knows the mind of God.

Meaning?

That is how we have come to know the mind of God through knowing the mind of christ since christ knows the mind of God.
Peace

Thank God you are coming gently today. Glory to God.

Can you also explain this scripture......please?

Goshen360:
New International Version (©1984)
Now [size=15pt]the Lord is the Spirit[/size], and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 2 Cor. 3:17 NIV

According to this scripture.....Who is the Lord? .......and Who is the Spirit

This was my kweshun

Pastor Kun:

There is no doubt about the deity of christ. Christ is the son of the Almighy God so that automatically bestows divinity on him. Also kindly quote one scripture in the bible which clearly states that God manifests himslf in three divine and eternal beings.

This is your answer.

Goshen360:

Throughout the scripture......GOD is ONE. In the divine nature, (NOT human) GOD manifest himself through three divine nature and being.....is that too difficult for you to understand? Okay, let's start with this scripture and you tell me what it means.......

New International Version (©1984)
Now [size=15pt]the Lord is the Spirit[/size], and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 2 Cor. 3:17 NIV

According to this scripture.....Who is the Lord? .......and Who is the Spirit

FAIL!!!
Bros abeg answer the kweshun quoting scriptures that tell us God manifests himself in three divine nature. or is it so difficult?

Pastor Kun:

Bros if out of a hundred bible translations of the same verse only two ascribe Jesus to be the true God shouldn't that raise alarm bells? I maintain that you don't have any point, you are merely chasing shadows as the doctrine of trinity contradicts scripture and is not biblically sound. Meanwhile you have an outstanding kweshun to answer.

Read up there.....I have answered your question sir. And did you say ONLY translations ascribe Jesus to be the true God? Take a look at this, maybe this will even mean a different thing to you after you read this translation,

Goshen360:

Amplified Bible (AMP)
20 And we [have seen and] know [positively] that the Son of God has [actually] come to this world and has given us understanding and insight [progressively] to perceive (recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [size=20pt]This [Man] is the true God[/size] and Life eternal.

Maybe Amplified Translation too na trinitarian.......

Pastor Kun: This was my kweshun

This is your answer.

FAIL!!!
Bros abeg answer the kweshun quoting scriptures that tell us God manifests himself in three divine nature. or is it so difficult?

Egbon mi, you are still NOT getting what am communicating to you. The issue is not quoting ONE explicit scripture to show that God manifest himself in THREE divine nature..........it's all over the scripture. God is ONE who manifest ALL THROUGH the scripture as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If this concept is hard for you to understand.....I don't know how else I should explain it. In other words, God doesn't just manifest Himself IN/AS the Father But also as Son and Holy Spirit.......Goshen is a Son, husband and father........BUT ONE and ONLY and TRUE GOSHEN especially when I add "360".......ki n ma jaye mi lo ni......

Goshen360:

Thank God you are coming gently today. Glory to God.

Can you also explain this scripture......please?

i think you are really confuse, if you cant understand that simple scripture then your case is worst than i thought.

Cheers anyway,
please yourself.
Peace

truthislight:

i think you are really confuse, if you cant understand that simple scripture then your case is worst than i thought.

Cheers anyway,
please yourself.
Peace

So "the LORD is THE Spirit" is TOO HARD for you to explain . See, keep your beef away when it comes to the things of God. TRINITY IS NOT A PAGAN TEACHING, IT IS BIBLICAL. I can understand if it's bigger than your "senses".

Goshen360:

Read up there.....I have answered your question sir. And did you say ONLY translations ascribe Jesus to be the true God? Take a look at this, maybe this will even mean a different thing to you after you read this translation,

Foul

20 We know, however, that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding, that we know him that is true ; and we are in him that is true, in his Son Jesus Christ: This is the true God and life eternal.

You seem to have missed out the semicolon and in some cases a fullstop after the phrase 'in his Son Jesus Christ.'

In other words , the beginning of the new sentence clarifies the previous sentence by saying that He is the True God, not Jesus.

Besides how can Jesus come to show us the one who is true if he is the one that is true , what is the point

Let me rephrase according to your understanding :
20 We know, however, that the one that is true has come, and has given us understanding, that we know him that is true ; and we are in him that is true, in the one that is true: This is the true God and life eternal.


Trying to twist a few scattered verses here and there will not help your case, it will only add to more confusion.