dayo
for once i'll have to agree with you on the greatest team in europe issue.Cougar jackal has obviously been skipping some shots of his medication.even a 2 year old knows real madrid are the greatest team in europe.

now back to our discussion,u cant rate nottingham on the same level as liverpool a few years ago. . .it just doesnt add up.how many trophies have forest won domestically/continentaly compared to 'pool before rafa took over?calling forest a 'sleeping giant' is absurd to say the least.but i'm not suprised since its coming from you.i've heard a lot worse.

The best football club in europe is Real Madrid while the best National team in europe is Germany.

@ cougar,
Inconsistency and post shifting should be your middle name. You rate Barca ahead of Real yet there is nothing Barca has won that Real has not won in 2-3folds;

Real has won 30 leagues to Barcas 18, Real 9 UCL to Barcas 2 that is more than 4 folds,

Chelsea won back to back EPL You refer to IFFHS that rated Sevilla as the number 1 team in Europe?

You said Germany is the best yet France has been more successful recently between 1998 and now.

Now to Bayern vs Man Utd ,

Bayern has won more leagues than Man Utd 19 to 16,

Bayern has won more UCL than Man Utd 4 to 2,

Bayern has won 13 DFB Pokal to Man Utd 11 FA cup wins, despite the fact that FA cup started 50 years before the DFB Pokal and they had to suspend it for 10 years during the world war!!!!!

Bayern has produced more European footballer of the year 5 times to Man Utd's 3 (the last in 1968) George Best as at that time, no Bayern player had won

So what is the basis you used to arrive at your conclusions??

U guys give me jokes. Most of the football fans in 9ja are glory hunters. how could u guys classify the Bundesliga as a minor league. are u guys nut. Ihr German "Habts ihr noch alle Tassen im schrank"
we all know that in all aspects Germany is superior than England. Whether its in Football, economy, the list are endless.
Going back to Football no English team has the pedigree of Bayern Munich.
I think i am in the perfect position to judge the EPL and the Deutsche Bundesliga coz i have lived in both countries and i must confess i dont understand the force of the EPL. they play senseless football in the EPL.

Welche Münchner Fußballmannschaft kennt man auf der ganzen Welt ?
Wie heißt dieser Club, der hierzulande die Rekorde hält ?
Wer hat schon gewonnen, was es jemals zu gewinnen gab?
wer bringt seit Jahrzehnten unsre Bundesliga voll auf Trab ?

\"FC Bayern, Stern des Südens, du wirst niemals untergehen, weil wir in guten wie in schlechten Zeiten zu einander stehen.
FC Bayern, Deutscher Meister ja so heißt er, mein Verein, ja so war es und so ist es und so wird es immer sein \"

Wo wird lauschend angegriffen, wo wird täglich spioniert ?
Wo ist Presse, wo ist Rummel, wo wird immer diskutiert ?
Wer spielt in jedem Stadion vor ausverkauftem Haus ?
Wer hält den großen Druck der Gegner stets aufs Neue aus?

\"FC Bayern, Stern des Südens, du wirst niemals untergehen, weil wir in guten wie in schlechten Zeiten zu einander stehen.
FC Bayern, Deutscher Meister ja so heißt er, mein Verein, ja so war es und so ist es und so wird es immer sein \"

Ob Bundesliga, im Pokal oder Champions League
ja gibt es denn was Schöneres, als einen Bayern-Sieg ?
Hier ist Leben, hier ist Liebe, hier ist Freude und auch Leid.
Bayern München, Deutschlands Bester, bis in alle Ewigkeit!
FC Bayern, Stern des Südens, du wirst niemals untergehen, weil wir in guten wie in schlechten Zeiten zu einander stehen.
FC Bayern, Deutscher Meister ja so heißt er, mein Verein, ja so war es und so ist es und so wird es immer sein

@ dayokanu,
the basis for comparison is man utd play in a grade a league while bayern plays in a grade b league. it aint about the number of cups won. porto and celtic or al ahly in egypt have won more cups than bayern munich or arsenal but does it mean they are all better than arsenal? real madrid is not the best team in europe as we speak. they need to win something on the continental level as soon as possible to get back to the zenith.
@ bwk,
bundesliga is weak because uefa rates them weak. they are not even seeded. the days of bundesliga are over. nothing shines in germany anymore as long as football is concerned. the strongest league in the world as we speak is the english premier league. i have stayed in germany before as well and there's nothing spectacular about your league. no passion, no finance, poor packaging and racism has eaten into bundesliga. it can never ever match the epl. the iffhs(a german based football history and statistics body) rates the epl as number 1. bundesliga is 6th in the ranking.
http://www.iffhs.de/?b6e28fa3002f71504e52d17f7370eff3702bb1c2bb11

@Cougar,
If the basis for putting Barca ahead of Real is used then Chelsea is ahead of Man Utd. You rated Man Utd as the best but they have not won anything in 9 years while Real won 6 years ago, Bayern 7 years ago so both of them have won more recently than Man Utd

Germany is a grade B league The only common trophy they compete for is the UCL and Bayern has won more than Man Utd.

Racism has eaten deep? Pls expatiate.

@ dayokanu,
man utd has one cutting edge over real madrid, barcelona and milan. they might have won the ucl 9 years ago but they have been able to dominate a grade a league. u cannot say the same in serie a or the la liga. that is the cutting edge. who has 60% dominance in a grade a league comprising of 20 teams. get back to me when u solve that mystery. if teams like celtic/porto were grade a leagues, i will give it to them but they belong to grade c leagues. united gets a nod because they have won the ucl and they have been able to wrap a grade a league in their palms. they are on the march again to win their 10th premiership title this season. in case u dont know, the premiership title has been identified as the strongest league in the world.

@BWT,
BWT, wie geht es Ihnen? sind Sie Deutsch? Ich habe versteht Deutsch sehr gut angezogen. Lassen Sie uns mehr oft sprechen. Ich bin einer Anhänger von den wenigen Bayern herum.

@ Cougar, Delusion is your middle name. Recently Chelsea can be said to have dominated the EPL too so they have won an average of 2 trophies per season so they are better than Man Utd by your factors.

Why can't the dominant team in the strongest league win the UCL, Bayern has won the Bundesliga 20 times since 1963, i.e 20 times in 48 years, Real has won La Liga 30 times since 1932 (75 years) and Man Utd won English League 16 since 1900 (108 years) what does domination mean?

@ dayokanu,
get some education, will ya? o meant domination in the premiership, not the old english league. the old english league wasn't the strongest league in the world by any means but the english premiership is the strongest league in the world. i expect u to be smarter than this piffle u keep typing. gosh! u erred again by saying chelsea has been dominant? how? by winning fa cup and community shield? the premiership is the most prestigious domestic title and chelsea has won it 2 times in 15 seasons. man utd has won it 9 times in 15 seasons. which is more dominant?

@BMW
what were you saying with all those things u typed?
we speak English here not Arabic

Ich bin Deutsch-Nigerianer. Ich bin in Deutschland aufgewachsden lebe aber zur Zeit in London.
Regarding what u said as a Bayern fan u have 2 count urself as unique compared 2 all thses EPL fans who have no idea of real football.
Bavarai for real
Bayern with Barca are the only football club with +100,000 registed fans and bayern has the most fanclubs in the world. Fact is that most of the EPL games are boring. the only highlight even u cant call it highlight are the games b/t the so called big 4, and those games rarely fulfill d expectations of entertainment.
Bavaria 4 Life
We at Bayern Munich don't need foreign cash injection to succeed and moreover we preserve our history
Most of the clubs in England have lost their football history and that's the most fundamental thing in football
I personally regard the EPL AS FORM OF PROSTITUTION WHEREAS THE CLUBS RUN FOR FOREIGNER WITH MONEY, THEY ARE SELLING THEIR SOULS GOD HAVE MERCY
I know most of u with come with answer like oh Bundesliga does not attract investors but that's bullshit its just coz the German Lowa does permit foreign ownership of clubs are the investors know that.
I love the Bundesliga
EPL is full of overrated and average players like Darren Bent, Adebayor, and so on
Looking at the Bayern 11 tell me which player in the EPL is better than the Bayer 11 considering their positions

Bayern München
Kahn - Sagnol, Lucio, Demichelis , Lahm - van Bommel , Zé Roberto - Schweinsteiger, Ribery , Toni - Klose

@ BWK,
all man utd players will walk into bayern munich team including louis saha and darren fletcher.
cech is better than khan. sagna is better than sagnol, ferdinand and vidic are better than ur centre-halves. evra/clichy/ashley cole are better than lahm.
fabregas/anderson/gerrard/alonso/essien/makelele,scholes are all better than van bommel and schweinsteiger.
giggs/hleb/nani/malouda/babel are better than ze roberto. ronaldo is better than all the wingers in bundesliga.
drogba, van persie, rooney, tevez are better than all the strikers in bundesliga.

we have top class managers. pick your choice . . . . .ferguson, wenger, rafa benitez, eriksson, juande ramos, alex mcleish, martin o'neill. we have the money to run the league plus outstanding viewership. the epl is the best show on planet earth. over one billion people watched the game between man utd and arsenal on the 3rd of november. this number was more than the people that saw the 2006 world cup final.

@BWK,
Kindly help me to enlighten all this EPL twats who know next to nothing about Anything outside the English Channel. Willkommener Freund Kommen hier mehr oft

Is it not a shame that foreigners now own all the top sides in EPL all manners of people From Glazer, to Hicks, to Al Fayed, to Abrahamovich who is wanted for Tax evasion in his country, to Thaksin wanted for Human right abuses, Next up is Usmanov Very soon we would have Abacha, Alams and Ibori buying over clubs in England.

Bayern would look for a German solution to issues and get a German coach, a german board and German sponsors not going cap in hand to Mobutu Sese Seko and other dubious people for funding

@cOUGAR,
If you set 1992 as the cut off for EPL what should we use as cut off for the other leagues

Drugs must be an issue for you now.
If Sagna is better than Sagnol, Ferdinand better than Lucio or Demichelis Ferdinand should be the worst Centre back in the whole world, Evra that has 7 caps for his country is better than a younger Lahm, Gael Clichy is yet to wear the colours of any country so he can still play for Burkina Faso, Cashley cow better than lahm then drugs is suspected. Van Persie, Rooney, Tevez better than Klose and Luca Toni then DRUGS is confirmed.

When Hitzfeld is the best coach in Europe right now you are now comparing some idiots Then Cocaine mixed with Ephedrine with a tinge of heroine is definitely at work.

@dayokanu and BWM
u guys are the ones on drugs. . .
bayern having the largest fanclub in the world
Try this:  United has about 5% of the world population as supporters!!!. If you think Bayern play good football, then ill advise you leave your cubicle called home and see Arsenal, United play what they call sublime soccer.

bayern is in the UEFA for crying out loud competing with Bolton Thats shameful

when next you type that hindu of urs, expect me to go swahili.

@Dayokanu
Gary neville and sagnol are par, Evra and Lahm are at par, Vidic and Ferdinand's combo is the best in europe. They havent conceded much goals playing in the UCL not UEFA where bayern concede like Dundee United.
Scholes/Hargreaves are better than Van Bommel, Ronaldo better than everybody, Rooney/Tevez coombo is at par with Toni and Klose, VDS and Khan are at par. so what are you fuming for?

On the field of play, you guys will suffer!!

TKB, I know you are not into drugs(at the last time I checked) but excessive alcohol(Star lager) can be as bad as drugs

Lahm at Par with Evra? Evra has as much as 9 caps for his country at 27 years of age though he debuted 4 years ago while Lahm who also debuted in 2004 has 37 caps for his country. Evra has never been considered good enough for any tournament just for meaningless countries while Lahm is a regular for country even with one arm during the world cup.

Tevez/Rooney at Par with KLONI ? two of the best strikers in the world from 2 of the top countries in the world Hargreaves that couldnt pin a shirt in Munichin 8 years better than Van Bommel that benched him?

Hargreaves that couldnt pin a shirt in Munichin 8 years better than Van Bommel that benched him?

ERROR!!!!! youre an errorist.
Bomel did not bench Hargo. They played together. Bomel joined Bayern from Barca and they were used together.
DO NOT MISINFORM PEOPLE.

Tevez/Rooney combo is at par with whatever combo u have.

Abidal will bench Lahm a billion times. Reasons Evra doesnt have permament shirt. Evra will play 200times for Germany if he was German

@ dayokanu,
the way u present ur analogies is next to tomfoolery. lahm having 1000 caps in germany means he is the closest germany can get to a decent left back player. it does not mean he is better than some players who dont even get a look in wearing national colours. how many caps did elber clinch for brazil? so we must conclude emile heskey is better than elber because heskey has 45 caps to elber's 15. get back to me when u learn to argue constructively and not load of piffle.

@dayokanu
Don’t mind these they literally have no clue
@Cougar
Come on no body gives a shit about the EPL in Europe except the English people themselves. So please keep d EPL 2 yourself. Am living in England In must confess the EPL doesn’t freak me out. Boring games, kick n rush, no tactical awareness and so on.
I dont understand y Nigerians love d EPL i thoug the colonial rule was over

And please stop comparing playerz like evra, clicy, Alonso, gerrad, babel, Anderson with Bayern players
Gerrad dat cant cut it on the international stage like most English playerz i mean Croatia showed them their deficits
FYI: Hleb as u guys glorify in the EPL is average. He was offered to Bayern but we rejected him not good enough for Bayer we Bayer go for players with class if we really want a player we get them, money is not an issue for us, we have our money don’t need to rely on foreign money like the entire British football. Some like berbatov was a failure in d bundesliga Bayern didn’t want him, he was offered to us and he wanted to join us be we rejected. I mean over the year which player in the EPL can compare with the likes Klinsmann, Elber, Klose, Sammer, Mathaeus, Moller, Haessler, Augehthaler, Effenberg.
Lahm is considered as the best right back in d world now u have d nerves 2 compare him with evra and sagna please

Look at this paradox Santa Cruz was not good enough for d Budesliga now in the EPL he’s regarded as one of the best strikers please give me a break
Again comparing Ferdinand with Lucio man u dey mad. Lucio one of the best defenders in the world with skills.
Nani is crap so is babel.
I must confess there r some players who I do admire in the EPL like fabregas, ronaldo, gigs andscholes, those r playerz with class
But please don’t bring rooney to the picture, u class that guy a striker please give me a break.
The EPL is full of overated and useless players
Lastly the Bundesliga is the best organized and structured league in the world that a fact ask anyone who knows about football

I rest my case!!!!![/b]

@ bwk,
after reading all your epistle to the romans, can u explain how bayern missed playing in the champions league with their supposed class players?how did bundesliga slip from being a great league to a mediocre league? the epl sent out 4 teams to play in the ucl, the 4 of them are still in contention. tell us why bundesliga sent 3 teams and only one(schalke04) is still standing.
come back to me when u have an answer to that? lahm is considered the best right back in the world and he plays for bayern munich? how the best right back in the world plays in the uefa cup must be the 8th wonder of the world. when u guys can see beyond your freckled noses, we can have a good debate. for now, lets stick to german cars are better than british cars.

@BMW
ure a full blown clown.

Santa Cruz? who the hell is that? ure saying u guys rejected him? what does that imply. . .it means you guys are not better than Blackburn Rovers. Dont u guys play in the same competition in europe.

Berbatov left Germany for Spurs not United, Arsenal nor Chelsea or liverpool. Now that hes paid hes dues, hes wanted by a host of clubs in europe. United inclusive.

You forgot to mention Ballack and Hargo whilst talking about the rejects of Bayern. Those lads wanted out of Bayern by force. I can remember your president lamenting when ballack opted for Chelsea instead of a new contract. Same with Hargo, your President once claimed they werent banks or what will they be doing with 17million GBP for Hargo.

imagine a team with Toni Kroos you guys should have bought Christantus too

Hleb as u guys glorify in the EPL is average. He was offered to Bayern but we rejected him not good enough for Bayer

hleb is better than ribery and shweinsteiger put togrther. . . , LITERALLY

Some like berbatov was a failure in d bundesliga Bayern didn’t want him, he was offered to us and he wanted to join us be we rejected.

ur obviously a clueless lad.berbatov was the second top scorer in the bundesliga the season before he came to england.if i remember correctly,he scored about 23 goals that season.and u call that a "failure"?

P.S is it everybody bayern "rejected"?if u rejected hleb and berbatov so u can feild shweinsteiger and klose u guyz sure have a desire for crap.

@Cougar

How is the EPL better than the Deutsche Bundesliga? I mean u haven’t come with any plausible answer………………….Imean if there are riches in ur country y wud u wanna play abroad, no in no incentive for bayern munich playerz 2 go aborad………………, i know u will now bring the Ballack issue but let me tell u Bayern made an offer 2 Ballack 2 extend is contract with a given deadline how ever then Ballack came with no answer we decided to withdraw d offer
Again each grat team goes thru a transitional period, look at Barca in the early 2000 to 2004, same applies to Real Madrid, Juventus and so on. This season is a just transitional period for us.
Look at all major leagues in Europe u can observe that there are always different teams in the champions league but in the EPL with the exception of Everton one season u have d same team in the UCL.
Pls name three defenders better or as good as Lucio
Right back better than Lahm
4 wingers in the EPL better than Ribery
4 better finishers in the EPL better than Klose

Its just like u telling me that Bentley is better than Benz, well Bentley might be more expensive but the quality is far inferior to that of Benz
Same analogy applies to the EPL and Bundesliga
Take it or leave it

@ tbk417 and other Arsenal fans
What makes a great team are qualities such as coming back from major disappointments
Well Manu snatched d UCL in 1999 from Bayern, well other team is have crumbled but we the mighty Bavarian came back and won it with style derafing u shit United home and away
@All EPL fans
Looking at the EPL well I haver 2 say dat the only big team is ManU, Le Arsenal for instance aere not in d league of ManU In England how many times has Arseanl won d league back to back………………, 0
And Chelsea just coz of 2 good season u cant call urself a great team and Liverpool yeah yeah u won d UCL 5 times but wen was d last time ur won ur league

@ritchboy
Because u score goals doesn’t mean u r a great player just look at Yakuba (Mr Tap in). Believe it or not berbatov wanted 2 join Bayern Munich I wish u could speak german I wud have sent an article confirming this, same applies to Hleb
U must be on drugs hleb better than Ribery
I am every objective in my analysis I do like some players in the EPL like Fabregas, gigs and ronaldo
Am not claiming dat the Bundesliga is d best league but surely superior to the EPL
And Hargraves spent most of his times with the doctor than on d pitch, so we were glad to let him go

Only 4 teams have won all the major European cups the UCL, UEFA and Cup Winners Cup and surely we are part on these great teams
Bavaria for life

@BMK
point of correction
i'm a RED DEVIL. . .You know what means, i will not in this life and beyond support Arsenal.
Thank you.

You did not answer all the questions i posed. You were just typing and typing and typing. . .

Four strikers better than Klose?
1) Drogba
2) Berbatov
3) Anelka
4) Rooney

Wingers better than Riberry
1) Ronaldo
2) Ronaldo
3) Ronaldo
4) Ronaldo

how many times has Arseanl won d league back to back………………, 0

arsenal won the league in 1931,1933,1934,1935,1938,1948,1953,1971,1989,1991,1998,2002,2004.do us a favour and stop spreading LIES..berbatov was not a failure in bundesliga,why any sane person would even insinuate that is just beyond me.

P.S HLEB is a better player than ribery.ur a bayern fan,i'm an arsenal fan. . . ask any nuetral who the better player is and all the answers will be synonymous.

@ bwk,
epl is better than bundesliga cos we have more quality teams than bundesliga. 4 clubs represent the epl in the ucl compared to bundesligas 3. epl is richer and stronger than the bundesliga. it is too obvious to be noticed. even dayokanu in his state of drunkeness admitted to it some days ago. 3 defenders better than lucio in the premiership are vidic, carvalho, toure and gallas. i cannot choose between lucio and ledley king at this stage.

ronaldo, giggs, hleb, malouda are better than ribery. drogba, rooney, torres, anelka and robbie keane are all better than miroslav klose.

@ritchboy
I meant the EPL not the old division one

@tkb
Four strikers better than Klose?
1) Drogba…better than Klose ur right, how many goals did h score at the last world cup, I agree Klose might not have the finesse like Henry or Ronaldo at his prime bur definitely he is more prolific than Drogba. Miro Klose any day
2) Berbatov… what are his track records
3) Anelka…, more a nomad than a striker
4) Rooney…even Tevez is beta than rooney ugly bastard looks more like a pig than a striker
so come with a better argument.

@Cougar,
Cocaine , Ephedrine, Heroine I now have to add that you have added Petrol sniffing to it. Vidic, Carvalho Toure Gallas better than Lucio why dont you add danny Shittu and Fergusson?

Hleb, Malouda, Giggs better than Ribery? Robbie Keane, Torres, Rooney better than Klose? Aside drugs I think spiritual problems is attributable to your predicament.

@Richboy, Berbatov was second need I tell you who was first that season? Sorry never new they had a league in 1933-1935 when Arsenal won the league back to back. Are you sure they played football of they just tossed coins to know the winner?

@TKB, Berbatov, Rooney better than Klose? I know you don't take drugs as at last week Sunday when I saw you last but with this comment I am not sure again. Stay off bad company because nothing short of drugs would make a full grown man make such assertions. Let us see a Pastor soon or the rehab I would hate it to lose you to cheap drugs

You know no player leaves the Bundesliga without Bayern having a look So for your info Berbatov, Hleb and others didnt make the cut at Bayern

Only 4 teams have won all the major European cups the UCL, UEFA and Cup Winners Cup and surely we are part on these great teams
Bavaria for life

@BWK, That was a quiz I gave people in this forum some time back and they failed woefully.

@ dayokanu,
the drug stories is becoming a bore. u are getting too monotonous. 4 strikers better than klose in the epl are rooney, tevez, drogba, anelka and fernando torres. u can take that to the bank. what has a player's face gotta do with his skills? rooney is a better striker than klose. in a competition where both played as fit players, rooney fleeced klose. how many goals did klose score at euro 2004? rooney outscored klose in all competitions last season so whats your point?

No sane person would say those jokers you mentioned are better than Klose. In 1998 Suker ourscored Ronaldo Lima at his peak meaning Suker is better.

At Euro 2004, Angelos Charisteas, Milan Baros and Jon Dahl Tommasson outscored Henry at his peak that means they are all better than Henry right ?

i gave you two examples, mr dayokanu.
what happened to kloses legs last season scoring 15 goals in all competition compared to wayne rooney's 23 goals? a player might have a bad tournament but when u have a bad tournament and a bad season then houston, we have a problem.

Rooney had a total of 35 league appearances and 14 goals 31 appearances and 13 goals so deduce from that.Their scoring ratio should speak for them