@pastor Kun

Are e you still of the opinion that men didn't give money as tithe ?

Kindly read this and explain


Leviticus 27:31
And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.


Leviticus 27:27
And if it be of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem it according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth part of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.

Joagbaje: @pastor Kun

Are e you still of the opinion that men didn't give money as tithe ?

Kindly read this and explain


Leviticus 27:31
And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.


Leviticus 27:27
And if it be of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem it according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth part of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.

And you conveniently left out Lev. 27:28?

Brother Jo....I'm an advocate for logical arguments don't twist the scripture for your selfish purpose.
Read Leviticus 27:26-28

26 says all firstborns of all animals already belongs to God, so you can't dedicate them to God since they are already his. 27 went further to say if it is of an unclean animal(since some animals are deemed clean and unclean,this is evident in the trance Peter fell into before he was to see the Centurion)so unclean animals are not edible ( reason why they should be redeemed). In the event they are not redeemed, they should be sold.28 ... stated that nothing a man owns and devotes to the Lord whether man or animal or family land may be sold or redeemed , everything so devoted is most holy to the Lord.

ezme:

And you conveniently left out Lev. 27:28?

Brother Jo....I'm an advocate for logical arguments don't twist the scripture for your selfish purpose.
Read Leviticus 27:26-28

26 says all firstborns of all animals already belongs to God, so you can't dedicate them to God since they are already his. 27 went further to say if it is of an unclean animal(since some animals are deemed clean and unclean,this is evident in the trance Peter fell into before he was to see the Centurion)so unclean animals are not edible ( reason why they should be redeemed). In the event they are not redeemed, they should be sold.28 ... stated that nothing a man owns and devotes to the Lord whether man or animal or family land may be sold or redeemed , everything so devoted is most holy to the Lord.

It's base on same principles dear. Either for tithes or offerings. People gave cash that's my point . Confront the scripture I gave and stop looking for loop hole.

You guys claim that men didn't give money as tithes in the bible . And I'm trying to clear you on the principle of redemption. Men did use money as tithe. It is not pastors invention .If you're not yet clear on this let's discuss it more. Pls no insult

The only acceptable thing in the sanctuary were the things priests could use. Other things were not acceptable ,they were converted into money. For example Carmel is an unclean animal. If a man rears Carmel ,he can't bring a tithe of it. He will give money equivalent of it. Money is general medium of exchange . Also it's not every crop that can be brought to the temple . Others were sold and the money brought in. It is called redemption.

Leviticus 27:31
And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.



You can redeem tithe , offering, or first fruit With money

Joagbaje:
The matter of choice I meant here is whatever extra we add to it.

Okay oo. If you say so.

Joagbaje:
But it should not be less than the 10% .

This one is not in the bible oo! if i call it pastoral innovation you will say am criticizing the pastors, but i can't think of any other name for it. God defined his tithe from the Israelite in Leviticus 27:30-33 and he did not define it as a strict tenth. Tithe according to God's definition range from 0% to 10%.

Joagbaje:
tenth is mans worship to his God .

I don't understand how tenth became mans worship to his God

Joagbaje:
10% of our earnings is Gods own .

God definition of his tithe:

Lev. 27:30 - "All tithes of the land, whether in grain from the fields or in fruit from the trees, belong to the LORD, as sacred to him.

Lev. 27:32 - The tithes of the herd and the flock shall be determined by ceding to the LORD as sacred every tenth animal as they are counted by the herdsman's rod.

As you can see, God did not say 10% of our earnings is his own.

Was the booty of war grain? Yet Abraham gave tithe of all . We give tithe of all earnings. .

Luke 18:12
. . . I give tithes of all that I possess..

Jacob vowed the tithe of all.

Genesis 28:22
. . : and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Joagbaje: Was the booty of war grain? Yet Abraham gave tithe of all . We give tithe of all earnings. .

Luke 18:12
. . . I give tithes of all that I possess..

Jacob vowed the tithe of all.

Genesis 28:22
. . : and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

As usual quoting incomplete verses out of context, the fact that you have to constantly resort to such measures proves that within yourself you know you are a bare faced liar with NO solid biblical backing to support the fraudlent version of tithes you and your cohorts preach today.

Pastor Kun:
As usual quoting incomplete verses out of context,

Was the bible written in chapters or verses? I'm not bound to quote every verse. I quote relevant ones . If I wrongly quote kindly prove it. You have used style to dodge the assignment I gave you.

you are a bare faced liar with NO solid biblical backing to support the fraudlent version of tithes you and your cohorts preach today.

I'm used to your style . When I box you into a corner ,you either run into hiding or you attack my person. Be a man , bring your bible ,let's talk

I gave you a scripture to explain which expose your lies, you want to cover it up with abuses

Joagbaje: @pastor Kun

Are e you still of the opinion that men didn't give money as tithe ?

Kindly read this and explain


Leviticus 27:31
And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.


Leviticus 27:27
And if it be of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem it according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth part of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.

And how does this justify the monetary version of tithes charlatans preach today? Is this what you and your cohorts preach? A very strict condition was given here for tithes to be redeemed(not necesarily as cash) and it still wasn't even from income yet you and other twisters of the gospel preach tithes as money from income. That is apart from the bigger issue of tithes of any form at all is not even required of chritians in the first instance.

Joagbaje:

The matter of choice I meant here is whatever extra we add to it. But it should not be less than the 10% .tenth is mans worship to his God . 10% of our earnings is Gods own . And it should





Free will is by choice. It belong to us. The tithe doesn't belong to us. It belong to God. I can decide not to give free will . But the tithe is not my own . If I eat it ,I have eaten Gods own .

^^^

lies!!!

I dont pay tith and am ok.
I give as my heart compels me.

Tith is not for christians, stop this heavy burden/load you you heavy on people.

Joagbaje:

It's just your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I don't know if any who is planning to meet God someday will embark on scam in his name. We will all face judgement someday

is it every so call MOG that knows what the bible teach and have the fear of God?

Majority are there for the food/MONEY they feel that they will get.

No love of God, no fear of God also. So, the flock are then exploited because of their greed and life style.

truthislight:
lies!!!

Prove it.

I dont pay tith and am ok.

Someoneelse will also say "I don't pray and I'm ok" it's your personal decision . It doesn't change truth

I give as my heart compels me.

It's still your peronsl decision

Tith is not for christians, stop this heavy burden/load you you heavy on people.

What's the source ?

Pastor Kun:

Bros how much do you know about tithes? since when did levites/priests become pastors/church? Is that not twisting of scriptures? Have you read deut 14:22-29 before? if not i would seriously advise you to read it before you say what you know nothing about? did God request for monetary tithes from income? If not is it right for pastors to change the word of God to justify tithing in the church? Did new testment christians tithe? Are christians under the law of moses that demanded tithes or under grace? Do you know that tithing was brought to an end in the bible? If you don't read hebrews 7:5-19 you would see were the the tithe law was anulled and described as a weak useless and unprofitable law.

him read that scripture of Deut 14

It can only make sense to someone that has conscience and is also an honest person.

Joagbaje: I will check it out and get back to that later .

And for the benefit of others following this thread, i am still waiting for you to get back on deut 14: 26 which you avoided in your deliberate attempt to twist verse 25 out of context.

Pastor Kun:

And for the benefit of others following this thread, i am still waiting for you to get back on deut 14: 26 which you avoided in your deliberate attempt to twist verse 25 out of context.

There no twisting . The scripture is still in line . People convert the tithe to money. People convert offering to money, people coinvert first fruit into money. Its a simple as that. If you don't still agree. . I gave you a scripture to study and get back,


Leviticus 27:31
And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

Joagbaje:

I seriously doubt if you and other manipulative church enemies and hate preachers have any plans of meeting God one day.

hahaha
lol.

We are church enemy because wr are telling people the Truth of the bible

Your intention for going to church is very clear from this statement, your interest for the money is very high, if this tight is stop you will most likely resign your pastoral work since your love for the money is higher than your love for God and man.

How you used tith that has no basis for christians and OT to imagine that someone will not see God shows that you dont know what it takes to be with God.

This Fraud has eating you deeply.

So now it's abuses, you've ran of truth you claim to preach. If youre ready for discussion kindly open your bible lets discuss. But if you want to do abuse and insult , count me out . Thanks

Pastor Kun:

I am sure I am not the one you are responding to with the above out of context deut 14:25 you posted. Another example of your deceitful manipulative self. Was the money mentioned in the verse meant to be given to the temple or used to buy food items for the consumption of the tither and his family? Why did you leave out verse 26 which explains the use of the tithe money. I know you wrote what you wrote to further deceive others reading this thread cos we've been through this before and I exposed your deceitfully position.

you should have ask him if the issue is that the people of the temple should not eat from the temple?

The issue is about tith not a command for christian.

Those that work in the temple, cant they eat from the voluntary offering, must it be tith?

The love of money is the root OF all sort of injuriouse things.

child's play

Joagbaje:



It's base on same principles dear. Either for tithes or offerings. People gave cash that's my point . Confront the scripture I gave and stop looking for loop hole.

You guys claim that men didn't give money as tithes in the bible . And I'm trying to clear you on the principle of redemption. Men did use money as tithe. It is not pastors invention .If you're not yet clear on this let's discuss it more. Pls no insult

The only acceptable thing in the sanctuary were the things priests could use. Other things were not acceptable ,they were converted into money. For example Carmel is an unclean animal. If a man rears Carmel ,he can't bring a tithe of it. He will give money equivalent of it. Money is general medium of exchange . Also it's not every crop that can be brought to the temple . Others were sold and the money brought in. It is called redemption.

Leviticus 27:31
And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.



You can redeem tithe , offering, or first fruit With money

i will have called you a thief but left it out.

Stop this twisting and fraud because tith is not for christians.

@ truth is light.
Ar you ready now ?

Going. . . Going . . .

truthislight:
i will have called you a thief but left it out.

Clap for yourself for that .

Stop this twisting and fraud because tith is not for christians.

Quote your bible reference for that .

Joagbaje:

Prove it.



Someoneelse will also say "I don't pray and I'm ok" it's your personal decision . It doesn't change truth



It's still your peronsl decision



What's the source ?

tith is for the ABrahamic covanant, and we are not in that covanant anymore.

I have been through this with you befor.

Hebrews 7:8 says that it is men that are dying that received tith in the old covanant, and in this new covanant christ is the high priest, and we know that he lives.

Meaning that in this new covanant it is not men that are dying that receives tith.

Every thing about the old covanant is passed with the old covanant.
In the new arrangement of the new covanant every thing is done based on love of God and love of man, things are done from the heart voluntarily out of the heart and not under compulsion.

Why are you dragging tith into the new covanant that is a compulsory law and leaving out animal sacrifice?

Theif!

Joagbaje: Was the booty of war grain? Yet Abraham gave tithe of all . We give tithe of all earnings.

Which tithe practice you dey follow self? Anyways Abraham tithe was before God defined his tithe. It's not binding on anybody. It was not even binding on his son & grandson. You can imagine Jacob was not tithing at the time he left home and was only looking to tithe on his return (that is if he ever tithe).It was still a matter of choice at the time.

To raise your blood pressure a little (and that of other pro withers), let me add that:

God re-defining tithe in Leviticus 27 means that all tithing practices prior to that becomes void. God defined what constitute his tithe in Lev. 27 and defined the beneficiary in Numbers 18 (& don't forget Deuteronomy), & God did not tell the Israelite to continue with the pre Lev. 27 tithe practice (if any). Only that defined under mosaic law was valid (as a commandment) at the time, and God has not told us his definition of tithe has changed. Conclusion: Mosaic tithe is for Jews, and Abrahamic tithe is obsolete

frosbel: 2 Corinthians 8:12
12 A gift is appreciated because of what a person can afford, not because of what that person can’t afford, if it’s apparent that it’s done willingly.



2 Corinthians 9:7-8
7 Everyone should give whatever they have decided in their heart. They shouldn’t give with hesitation or because of pressure. God loves a cheerful giver. 8 God has the power to provide you with more than enough of every kind of grace. That way, you will have everything you need always and in everything to provide more than enough for every kind of good work.

To start with I don't understand why everything has been narrowed to tithe because can't see tithe mentioned in both verses of scripture and secondly the scriptures are all self explanatory.

truthislight:

tith is for the ABrahamic covanant, and we are not in that covanant anymore.

I have been through this with you befor.

Hebrews 7:8 says that it is men that are dying that received tith in the old covanant, and in this new covanant christ is the high priest, and we know that he lives.

Meaning that in this new covanant it is not men that are dying that receives tith.

Beautiful ! And the man is Jesus christ who lives forever as our high priest. You only supported my position.

Theif!

Ouch ! ! you got the spelling wrong. I may not respond to you any longer , as youve degenerated into insults

The issue of tithing is in reality not a discuss of the law yes the introduction of the new dispensation out stead the law thus abrogaTing and rendering it practically obsolete. Tithing as a practice preexisted the law as evident in Genesis 14 where Abraham gave the tithe of all the spoil of war to Melchizedek. It a practice that revealed a pattern of referentially recognition of the one and only true covenant God. This talk of people being forced or compelled against their will or capacity to give tithe is not true people are only thought to give cheerfully.

newmi: The issue of tithing is in reality not a discuss of the law yes the introduction of the new dispensation out stead the law thus abrogaTing and rendering it practically obsolete. Tithing as a practice preexisted the law as evident in Genesis 14 where Abraham gave the tithe of all the spoil of war to Melchizedek. It a practice that revealed a pattern of referentially recognition of the one and only true covenant God. This talk of people being forced or compelled against their will or capacity to give tithe is not true people are only thought to give cheerfully.

Burnt offering and animal sacrifice pre dated the law, why don't you practise it today? Ole barawo buruku

Pastor Kun:

Burnt offering and animal sacrifice pre dated the law, why don't you practise it today? Ole barawo buruku

Joagbaje:

Beautiful ! And the man is Jesus christ who lives forever as our high priest. You only supported my position.



Ouch ! ! you got the spelling wrong. I may not respond to you any longer , as youve degenerated into insults

what about the animal sacrifice that left behind in the ABrahamic law covanant?
Was that not what some of those collecting tith in the temple where doing since we as christians are still to keep the Abrahamic law covanant why go for tith alone and leave the animal sacrifice?

You dont deserved any respect from any decent society, you cannot cherry pick when it comes to God's law, not when you leed people back into the law of moses under the Abrahamic convanant.

Jesus called the pharisee hypocrit because that was they are.

You are a thief and i will call you such without fear or favour.

Jesus christ did not have the fear of man not even satan or pilate the Roman Governor.

So, again, you are a thief.

Come show me why you leave the animal sacrifice and pick only tith.

I dont need to debate with a deliberate thief like you whose conscience is already dead.

newmi: The issue of tithing is in reality not a discuss of the law yes the introduction of the new dispensation out stead the law thus abrogaTing and rendering it practically obsolete. Tithing as a practice preexisted the law as evident in Genesis 14 where Abraham gave the tithe of all the spoil of war to Melchizedek. It a practice that revealed a pattern of referentially recognition of the one and only true covenant God. This talk of people being forced or compelled against their will or capacity to give tithe is not true people are only thought to give cheerfully.

Abraham was the head of the Abrahamic convanant and when that covanant passed away and give way to the new covanant the laws of the old covanant also passed with it.

You cannot go back and take some and leave some behind.

Christians are in the new convanant and the law of Tithing is not in the new convanant and as such Tithing is not for christians.

Mckybarf: Hmmmm, first of all there is a clear distinction between tithes and general giving in the church and its all too obvious for all to see except for those who fail to see because they think they know just too much to be taught. Secondly, none of the verses quoted here even talks of tithing, if you ask me. If you people are so concerned about tithing, and why it is such a big issue today, [b]just search through the bible and find out who instituted it, for whom it was instituted and for what purpose. Tithes are for upkeep of pastors and so are first fruit offerings. Other offerings are for other purpose as deemed fit by the church's authorities. [/b]Most of the comments i have seen here only talk of two things- prejudice against pastors and faithlessness with God. I didnt give any scripture refrences because since you were smart enough to quote those above these shouldnt a problem for you at all. I really doubt you are true christians or may be you are just being malicious or been decieved. In christendom, the principle is sowing and reaping- these are spiritual protocols and no man can ever change them. What do you have that you did not recieve? If it be then that you recieved it of the one who gives you power to make wealth why are you so beefed with giving him just one tenth of what you make. Know the truth and let it set you free.

On your post and especially the highlighted part I say this: Please go and study your bible.