italo: Deductions from Ihedinobi:

"I think" "I think" "I think". Unsure of almost everything. Though he made a good attempt. He is not claiming infallibility in any way...and he is not claiming to tell us God's teaching.

Who will tell us what God teaches on this topic?

Is there something preventing you from going straight to God to get His teaching on it?

Also, I'm not here for you to rank me. If it were possible, this discussion might have been restricted to the named discussants. We have reason for discussing and it isn't to prove that any one of us is God's mouthpiece on the issue. It is for the different revelations granted each of us to come to one mature revelation.

So if you want to keep a scoreboard, you're probably on the wrong thread.

No offence meant though.

Ihedinobi:
Is there something preventing you from going straight to God to get His teaching on it?

Also, I'm not here for you to rank me. If it were possible, this discussion might have been restricted to the named discussants. We have reason for discussing and it isn't to prove that any one of us is God's mouthpiece on the issue. It is for the different revelations granted each of us to come to one mature revelation.

So if you want to keep a scoreboard, you're probably on the wrong thread.

No offence meant though.

No offence taken, as I'm not even ranking anybody.

I'm only trying to know what God is teaching on this issue. Everyone of you has had an argument on doctrine with me at one time or the other and you all ascert your positions as though you were sure it's God's teaching.

This is only a good opportunity for me to get all three of you (and possibly more) to teach me again. It is also a chance for me to know if you will all teach the same thing or different things.

If you admit that you are fallible, how can you then tell another man with certainty that he is wrong on his own interpretation of the Bible. That alone is a claim to infallibility.

I would also like to know where this different revelations you mentioned is coming from and what the "mature revelation" will be at the end of the day.

But then, perhaps I am asking for too much; that would be derailing the thread.

seriallink:

Italo, you are derailing this thread. Did you see my name on the thread's topic?

Well, @the bolded, I can't remember telling you that I have all the answers. But something similar to this has been discussed on another thread and I have learnt from it. Maybe this thread is meant for people with similar understanding of scripture! So, I'll be watching from the sidelines

The Bible has all the answers though. It's left for us to follow it precepts upon precepts as the scripture says:

Isaiah 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:

You don't have all the answers but you can condemn other people on issues which you have no answers on.

*sorry, I'm derailing the thread further*

Mr_Anony:
fled?

Fleded.

italo:

No offence taken, as I'm not even ranking anybody.

I'm only trying to know what God is teaching on this issue. Everyone of you has had an argument on doctrine with me at one time or the other and you all ascert your positions as though you were sure it's God's teaching.

This is only a good opportunity for me to get all three of you (and possibly more) to teach me again. It is also a chance for me to know if you will all teach the same thing or different things.

If you admit that you are fallible, how can you then tell another man with certainty that he is wrong on his own interpretation of the Bible. That alone is a claim to infallibility.

I would also like to know where this different revelations you mentioned is coming from and what the "mature revelation" will be at the end of the day.

But then, perhaps I am asking for too much; that would be derailing the thread.

You don't want to believe the scriptures and you don't want believe infallible humans. Are you gradually becoming atheistic?

Will there be no bible references as back up or is it going to be based on true life stories?

We are waiting to learn.

Boomark:

Fleded.

fleded?

Mr_Anony:
fleded?

hahaha

we are still waiting.

Isn't it funny how some are not interested in truth but are more interested in promoting their sect and hoping that the other side will fail to provide an explanation so that they can declare a "victory". Kinda like the angry kid who hates mathematics and because he can't understand why 2x2=4, therefore he claims that mathematics must be flawed and so it gives him a certain satisfaction when he sees a mathematician professor having difficulties with a complex mathematics formula because he says "Aha I told you mathematics is flawed, let me see how you come out of this one". Ah Ignorance is truly blissful.

Mr_Anony: Isn't it funny how some are not interested in truth but are more interested in promoting their sect and hoping that the other side will fail to provide an explanation so that they can declare a "victory". Kinda like the angry kid who hates mathematics and because he can't understand why 2x2=4, therefore he claims that mathematics must be flawed and so it gives him a certain satisfaction when he sees a mathematician professor having difficulties with a complex mathematics formula because he says "Aha I told you mathematics is flawed, let me see how you come out of this one". Ah Ignorance is truly blissful.

What? Most atheists here have read the bible. There are no clear answers to your questions in the bible.


Provide it and we will shut up. Dont perambulate

Ihedinobi: My, I just saw this thread o. Don't know why it didn't show in my 'followed topics'. I've been laughing since I got on it. (Il)logicboy, u naw go kii pesin o. Lol.

Anyhow, twin bro, my thoughts are still crystallizing and I think this discussion should give them clear shape, thank God.

First, I think that once a person is dead, they cannot in any way participate in material reality. But I don't think they are "unaware" of it in the sense of being ignorant of unfolding events of it, they are "unaware" of it in terms of experiencing it which they cannot.

Second. As implied in first, I think the dead are "aware" or "conscious", but something like in the same manner as cinema viewers are of events of the movie they're watching.

Third. I think that the righteous dead and the wicked dead are separated, but I'm not certain what the condition of the wicked dead is except the fact that they're not in the comfort that the righteous dead are in. I think that their exclusion from that comfort amounts to a condition of torment. I don't think this separation is any different than the separation that exists right here on earth in a spiritual sense between believers and unbelievers. But it is more immediate there than it is here. I also don't think either condition is in fullness, it's more like the separation between the fruit of the harvest and the weeds just before storage and burning. Also, I think that both the comfort and the torment are probably not different from that experienced among us the living, but because the burden of material reality has been taken off, it's a more immediate experience for them.

Fourth. More than all the others my thoughts on the Judgment are the most incomplete. But I will outline them in their current development nonetheless here.

- The Judgment Day is the day on which all things, no matter what they are, are evaluated.

- The evaluation will be for purposes of discovering every last bit of Christ that may be found in everything.

- Everything that will be evaluated will be in its full form, for example, the man being judged will not be just a soul or spirit or body, he must be in his full form, spirit, soul and body. So will every other thing be. I think that the reason is to eliminate totally the possibility of oversight.

- If even a tiny speck of Christ is found in any given thing, that speck will be saved, everything else will be destroyed. If nothing of Christ is found in a particular thing, that thing in its entirety will be destroyed.

- The saints will be the agents of this judgment. But I'm not certain how. My understanding up to now was that those who come to the full maturity of Christ will be the ones judging with Him. But I wonder about that understanding because I consider that even the least of God's children has no equal in any rank beneath Christ. As such, I think that every Christian will judge with Christ but according to their capacity of Christ. We will not all judge equally because our individual measure of Christ will not be the same. It is worth bearing in mind though that a full tot and a full mug, while differing in size, are neither of them lacking in content.

- Obviously, my problem with the above is what the purpose of judgment is if all of that which is Christ is already selected and is actually itself the Judge. I think that the purpose is to bring to clear God of every charge of injustice. I think that it will be meant to show the surpassing greatness of Christ and His utter perfection and acceptability so that God is utterly justified in rejecting everything that is not exactly Christ.

Fifth. The outcome of the Judgment is the "abandoning" to the fullness of the consequences of every path chosen. So that which comes in after the Judgment is essentially the mature form of that which was before it. That means that whatever the dead are experiencing now, it is only a foretaste of what is to come and a more immediate foretaste than what we the living are experiencing, but it is not the full thing.

Finally, like I said and as evidenced by all the foregoing, my thoughts on it are still developing, and that's why I've hungered for and awaited this discussion until now. I have not named or referenced Bible passages because I want to leave my comments open to critical study and rejection. (So, non-idiotic analyses and commentaries are most welcome.)

(PS: In expressing those thoughts, I may have found some of their answers but I will wait for the right conditions to bring them forth.)

Oh brother, this is one of those areas where the Lord has not yet opened my understanding to the fullest but then I am not in a rush to throw in half-baked answers. I'll take my time and give it some study and hopefully by weekend when I am a bit more free, we'll break bread. In the meantime, I'll read any biblical contributions that show up on the thread while making sure to ignore the sectarian and self promotions.

Logicboy03:


What? Most atheists here have read the bible. There are no clear answers to your questions in the bible.


Provide it and we will shut up. Dont perambulate

Ah ignorance...........

please stay tuned though

Mr_Anony:
Ah ignorance...........

please stay tuned though

Sharaap and put the evidence

Mr_Anony: Isn't it funny how some are not interested in truth .......

What is TRUTH ?

Logicboy03:


Sharaap and put the evidence

stay tuned

frosbel:


What is TRUTH ?

The Word is truth.

plaetton:

Fine.
If the bible explains it, then we should expect all of you to echo each other and say the same things and quote from the same verses. There should be no ambiguities, no conjectures, no deductions from assumptions in the inerrant word of god.

We are waiting.

the bible is very clear on this, but tradition of men that has nothing to do with the bible and tradition that has been there long befor the bible was written has become what people wish to bend the bible to suite.

Eg, pharoe(king) of egypt believed that when they die they will travel out of there grave and as such they build pyramid with a tunnel from the bottom to the tip so that they can have access to the sky.

Even African traditional religion and others all have same belief but for the bible.

Such ^^^ kind of belief has been in existance by men even befor the bible OT and NT were written.

One thing with this ideas that this nations had was that man dont die and it is taught to agree with what satan said in the garden of eden that "Adam will not die" as opposed to what was said by Yahweh that Adam will die.

Yahweh did show the nation of egypt that he is the true God(almighty God) as compared to what they worshiped as shown by the defeat to their Gods.

Yahweh then revealed the truth to his chosen nation the Israelite and told them what is contain in the bible that supported what he had told Adam in Eden, that Adam will die should he disobeyed.

But satan will never say die with his demons, they are busy trying to deceived people that man dont die at death but still lives on.

This is the tradition that is being force on the bible.

But when traditon is accepted it will conflict with many clear bible portions that they end up denying some part of the bible to make up for tradition.

But for a teaching to be a bible teaching, it must pass through the whole bible seamlessly without contradictions GENESIS to Revelation.

But immortality/life at death cannot.

frosbel:


What is TRUTH ?

Whatever FROSBEL copies and pastes from other sites...

this topic cant be handled by most. this topic cant be correctly dealt with without thorough knowledge of

1-FIRST DEATH
2-SECOND DEATH
3-FIRST RESURRECTION / FIRST FRUITS
4-LATER FRUIT
5-REINCARNATION
6-HELL
7-SPIRITUAL DEATH
8-CHRISTS PURPOSE FOR RETURNING WHEN HE DOES
9-JEWS FIRST AND GENTILES NEXT.
10-1ST 2ND AND 3RD WOE
11-ARMAGEDDON

*subscribing*

@Obadiah777, Could you please shed some more light on your post above. Thank you.

Please, who unfollowed me? Moderators!

Found me some time at last! What can i say, it is a clearly difficult subject. Nonetheless, the OP has permitted me to share. Firstly, there is something called ETERNITY. Death is our thin line, our transit between time and eternity. Many men live in time, All men live in time. We are in time, counting centuries, decades, years, months, days, and even microseconds. Time is just a partition, a cloud, created in God's hand. Eternity surrounds time. It is before time and after time. God holds eternity, and lives in eternity. He is the Eternal God, that is why He is called the Beginning and the End. He has no beginning and has no end, and He has created us in that image. This is why it is important for every man to note where he would spend eternity. There is eternal life, and there is eternal damnation.
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
i wish there was no eternal damnation. Well, i wish many things too. i wish nigeria was developed like america. And i wish my friend to be the president etc. If wishes were horses. Still the Word of God is Truth, and is Amen, and so shall it be. The Word of God teaches that there is eternity. Ther is a forever and ever, something everlasting, for EVERY man. Unfortunately, words alone cannot describe everything or aptly describe everything.

2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Many times, God uses pictures that we are familiar with to explain untold realities. So we should many times learn not to overdwell on the words or letter, but on the essence and the spirit of God's Word. Jesus perceived death in a different way to how we perceive it. He knows all things. He is an authority, knowing what happens in the after life. Jesus looked at death as SLEEP.
Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Mat 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Mar 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luk 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.

From the passages above, it is evident that Jesus had a different view to death than we have as humans. he saw death as a sleep phase. Some other scriptures also term death as sleep. Consider the below.
Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

These passages show us that when we die, we are actually sleeping. This is truth irrespective of our past experience and knowledge, for the Word of God is Truth. And i dare say, that if one can have a good and enjoyed sleep(night rest as we know it), or a bad and troubled sleep(night rest as we know it). On the same premise, all men may have a good sleep or a troubled sleep in the afterlife.

In the scriptures, right from the old testament, there was always the picture and the idea that there was a consciousness in the afterlife.
Gen 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
Here is God, telling Abraham, that when he died, He would go to his fathers. The expression is frequently used in the old testament. They had the idea of going to join some people when they died.

Gen 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
It is either Abraham was gathered to his people, or he was not. God had told him that he would go, and chapter 25says he went when he died. this is the afterlife(or is it afterdeath). Similar expressions are severally used in the OT.

Gen 35:29 And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.

Gen 25:17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, a hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
Gen 49:33 And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.
Deu 32:50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:
It is good that you move with the right people, because you will be gathered unto your people when you die. So folks, know your people, because you may have to spend the afterlife with them.
Gen 49:10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Bible students know this passage to be referring to the Lord's Christ,and it is to him that the people will gather. When we die, that is, when believers die, they are gathered in Christ. Other scriptures also say this.
-1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
-1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
-Phi 1:23 For I am in a strait between two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
-2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

In the afterlife, something(s) definitely leaves the body, as seen in the last passage above "absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord". Some people argue that the body goes down to the grave and suffers corruption, therefore no feeling after death. But we have skipped the part that something(s) leaves the body in the afterlife. that thing(s) is what sleeps. In the afterlife, you either have a good sleep or a terrible sleep. Everybody sleeping will be awakened later on either for the first resurrection or for the white throne judgement.

The scriptures state that the spirit and the soul depart from the body at death. Quickly on the spirit departing are these 3,
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Also on the soul's departure, we have,
Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.
1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

When these something(s) leaves the body, it goes to a place of rest. The souls of some is spoken of as resting in the book of Revelation.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The passage talks of souls resting, which is in agreement with Jesus' views of sleeping, and His promise to give those who come unto Him rest. The afterlife is not just to sleep, but to have a good night rest. This state of rest and sleep is not the picture of running up and down, there is some restriction. Compare it with the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus is pictured in Abraham's bosom, a position of rest. He doesn't even say or do nothing in the account. But he is conscious, albeit in rest. A lot of things go on inside us when we rest/sleep. Some people have sweet dreams, the internal organs function and organise themselves better. A day is coming though, when Christ will wake up all, from their sleep. In that time, the spirit and soul will be rejoined to the body and the body will be changed.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

it's a mystery, but it will happen. The dead in Christ will rise first, then we, which are alive, will also be changed and will join them to forever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

As for now, they surround us as a cloud of witnesses. Like Ihedinobi said, and whose post i totally agreed to, they are like in the cinema house as viewers.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
We are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. These are dead saints, heroes of the faith, but they are witnessing. It is not a would be, it is present. God is not a God of the dead but of the living. The saints are alive. Jesus said, " And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." Death is not the correct representation of what happens. Some people are already dead in God's eyes, before they die. But for believers, they are ever alive. In the net testament, we are come, or have come to Mount Zion, to a lot of angels. It is not a matter of the future or for the future, we have come. To the general assembly. To the spirits of just men. To Jesus. To God. These are all in present tense, not a future hthing. We are before the spirits of just men, they are surrounding us as witnesses. This is what happens in the afterlife.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Destruction as used in the Word of God is not as we perceive it. Same goes for Life and Death. We perceive people to be alive. Many are alive,but do not have Life, eternal Life. Adam was alive, even though he had not taken of the tree of life. The tree of life puts us, grants us access to ETERNAL life. Eternal Life is to be with God forever. Eternal damnation is to be without God. It is also for eternity, forever. It is eternal separation, that's why its called death. Death is termed as separation. When the spirit leaves the body, it is death. When a man is separated from God, it is a form of death. That something is destroyed does not mean that it will not be conscious forever, else, devil should not be conscious forever by now.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus died to destroy the devil. Is the devil now unconscious, or destroyed in the way we all perceive 'destroy'?
Even the work of God can be destroyed,according to the Bible. But that destruction is not a end of God's work.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense.
That the Bible talks of sinners being destroyed, or the satan destroyed does not mean that they will not exist again. The Bible records that their damnation will be forever. It is the same thing with words like 'perish' for instance.
Luk 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
Zacharias was a prophet that perished in 2Chronicles 24. But as Bible students, we all know that that is not his end. I hope God gives us the grace to rightly divide his word, and give us more understanding and righteousness. So that, whatever may happen in the afterlife, we may be found worthy to stand before Him.

^^^ Insightful post. You guys should keep it coming

Fact 1 : Man is Mortal not Immortal - Genesis 2:7

Fact 2 : Man does not have an independent spirit because he is not a spirit , he has the life of God in him which is also called spirit

Fact 3: When a man dies his spirit which belongs to God leaves and returns to God , the man goes back into a state of inanimation - Psalm 146:4

Fact 4 : When Racheal's soul left her, it simply means her life drained from her which is the spirit. She went from a Soul ( living with the spirit ) to a dead body ( without the spirit )

Fact 5 : All the dead are waiting for resurrection either to life or to judgement

Fact 6 : The dead in Christ will be raised to immortality which means total immunity to death

Fact 7 : The wicked dead will be raised to judgement and punished according to their deeds

Fact 8 : The wicked will be destroyed in Hell

Fact 9 : Death and the grave will also be destroyed in Hell

Fact 10 : The wicked will be no more

Fact 11 : The saints begin their everlasting life in the new heaven and earth

Praise be to GOD.

frosbel: Fact 1 : Man is Mortal not Immortal - Genesis 2:7

Fact 2 : Man does not have an independent spirit because he is not a spirit , he has the life of God in him which is also called spirit

Fact 3: When a man dies his spirit which belongs to God leaves and returns to God , the man goes back into a state of inanimation - Psalm 146:4

Fact 4 : When Racheal's soul left her, it simply means her life drained from her which is the spirit. She went from a Soul ( living with the spirit ) to a dead body ( without the spirit )

Fact 5 : All the dead are waiting for resurrection either to life or to judgement

Fact 6 : The dead in Christ will be raised to immortality which means total immunity to death

Fact 7 : The wicked dead will be raised to judgement and punished according to their deeds

Fact 8 : The wicked will be destroyed in Hell

Fact 9 : Death and the grave will also be destroyed in Hell

Fact 10 : The wicked will be no more

Fact 11 : The saints begin their everlasting life in the new heaven and earth

Praise be to GOD.

You again!
Can we examine your facts sir?
Fact 1:
The afterlife is to be lived for eternity. No total annihilation. Whether in hell or heaven. You know this to be true. How then is man mortal? What you should have said is, our bodies and souls are mortal. P
Fact 2:
This is laughable. Mr, isnt the life in us the 'living soul' as you've said before. This is desperation
Fact 3
Hilarious. Deserves no response because it defeats your Fact 2.
Fact 4
Still on spirits which you r Fact 2 has already debunked.
Fact 5
Agreed.
Fact 6
True. Fact 1 refuted.
Fact 7
True
Fact 8
What do you mean by destroyed?
Fact 9
True
Fact 10
True
Fact 11
True.
Amen.

Reyginus: You again!
Can we examine your facts sir?
Fact 1:
The afterlife is to be lived for eternity. No total annihilation. Whether in hell or heaven. You know this to be true. How then is man mortal? What you should have said is, our bodies and souls are mortal. P
Fact 2:
This is laughable. Mr, isnt the life in us the 'living soul' as you've said before. This is desperation
Fact 3
Hilarious. Deserves no response because it defeats your Fact 2.
Fact 4
Still on spirits which you r Fact 2 has already debunked.
Fact 5
Agreed.
Fact 6
True. Fact 1 refuted.
Fact 7
True
Fact 8
What do you mean by destroyed?
Fact 9
True
Fact 10
True
Fact 11
True.
Amen.

As Logicboy will say , epic fail !!

All your points have been debunked time and time again, it is now getting boring.

Todaynatoday: @Obadiah777, Could you please shed some more light on your post above. Thank you.

well it is important to know that the seed of all the men that you see in the world today were not formed at once. a first group of seed was formed and existed thousands of years before the other seeds emerged. this first seed of man obviously sinned and rejected God and did all the sin they did before the other seed of men came to the earth. so therefore this first seed of men will recieve judgement first before the other seed. this is what is called JEWS FIRST AND THEN GENTILES. the first seed is ISRAELITES and the second seed is GENTILES. the first seed of men has been judged already and those who made it are called the FIRST FRUITS OR FIRST RESSURECTION. their spirits has been defaulted to heaven now ( heaven is in you, those whose spirits have been defaulted to heaven are who will inherit the world. this is why it is called the kingdom of heaven, meaning they are the owners of the kingdom ( earth ), those who didnt make heaven got recompensed in the first and second woe ( woe means destruction and violence ). after getting recompensed, the lord took their knowledge away from them and made them stupid ( yes the lord can take away your knowledge ) ( malchi 2 vs 9 ) ( job 36 vs 12 ) ( romans 11 vs 7 ). this is called second death. when a mans knowledge has been taken away from him, he will regress into primitiveness ( which is the state the europeans found the black man when they came to africa in the 1600s). so this is hell and death. meaning your spirit is dead and is buried in hell. and you will be kept in this state till christ returns to judge the other seed ( jude 6 ) ( romans 11 vs 25 ) ( 2 peter 2 vs 4 )( isaiah 6 vs 10 ).

so this is where we are today as we speak. the first seed is in second death and the second seed is in first death. we are waiting for the second seed to bring forth the LATER FRUITS ( james 5 vs 7 ) (romans 11 vs 25) ( micah 3 vs 5 ).

the conditions of first death is that you do not pay for your sins immediately. your sins accrue. the lord does not want to scare you into turning to him. he wants you to turn to him voluntarily. as such your sins accrue until you slide into second death and then all the punishment come tumbling in on you in what is called the WOE. the gentiles will be getting their punishment in the 3RD WOE. the first seed fot theirs in the IST AND 2ND WOE. ( psalms 73 and job 21 and habbakuk 1, read those chapters to see king david, habbakuk and job wondering why the second seeds ( gentiles ) commit so much crime and yet they are in prosperity and nothing happens to them while the first seeds are recieving all kinds of punishment for anything they do. unfortunately for those prophets, they wrote their books in a vacuum and did not have the full picture, we today are privilleged to have the full picture of why that was happening ). in second death there is no grace period. you get almost immediately recompensed for your sins. this is why if you look at any country inhabited by first seeds, the place is always extremely violent ( thats them recieving immediate judgements for their sins. all acts of evil is a recompense from God ( amos 3 vs 6 ) ( isaiah 45 vs 7 ) ( lamentations 3 vs 38 ) ( proverbs 16 vs 4 )) and the people are always stupid because the lord has taken their knowledge and made them base.

above conditions will be maintained till the second seed brings forth its later fruit and then those of them who dont make it will slide into second death while the first seed will be pardoned ( romans 11 vs 26 ) (isaiah 14 vs 1 ) and released from hell and death.

so basically this whole exercise has been to establish the inhabitants of heaven so that they, the inhabitants, can go on and posess the earth and hence it will be called the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.the whole thing has been to establish righteous leadership on earth under christ based on MERIT.

and finally in the midst of the above painted backdrop, we humans die, our body returns to the earth while our spirit returns to God to rest ( ecclesiastes 12 vs 7 ), we rest in the spirit world for 3 or 4 generations. then we get born into a new body as new born babies to come and pay for the sins we committed in past life if we have not already paid for it ( ecclesiastes 3 vs 16 ). we are reincarnated back to earth periodically. our body is mortal but our spirit is immortal.WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS HAVING A WORLDLY EXPERIENCE. ( john 6 vs 63 )

frosbel:

As Logicboy will say , epic fail !!

All your points have been debunked time and time again, it is now getting boring.

lololol.
And as logicboy has always been told, adding 'debunked' in response to a claim, does not make you smart.

^^^^

Reyginus aka Anony , hear this out :


1. According to the bible , angels are spirits and men are mortal - Reyginus refuses to accept this at face value. According to him, both men and angels are spirits.

"Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" - Psalm 104:4

"Can a mortal be more righteous than God?
Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker?" - Job 4:17


2. According to Genesis 2:7 Man was made of dust and only became a living soul on receipt of the breath of life from GOD. Nowhere in this account of creation is it mentioned that MAN was made of dust , soul and spirit - Yet Reyginus cannot accept this plain scripture


3. Jesus Christ called death sleep , Reyginus calls it separation of body and soul.

"After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up." - John 11:11

Jesus could have said, Lazarus's body is sleeping and his soul is in paradise or wherever , instead he said Lazarus ( as in the whole man ) is asleep.

"Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. "Stop wailing," Jesus said. "She is not dead but asleep." - Luke 8:52

Also Reyginus, note , none of these people mentioned anything about life after death or visions of hell and heaven.


I will complete this list later on , a little busy.

For now , enjoy.

I weep for Christianity!

See confusion!

Jesus is sure not the author of this confusion.

Now who is telling the truth?

Everyone is saying different things and everyone will claim to be under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Somebody/some people is/are lying/preaching false doctrine...

...And it sure aint The Holy Spirit.

I continue to look on...wondering who to believe.

@Obadiah777, thanks for taking the time to reply me but what you just stated above just left me in a confused state. Not to worry, I've saved this page and I'll read it over again carefully. Thanks once again.