truthislight:

good one boomark.

If you leave your going round in circles you will do better.

thanks.

Am on a straight road broda.

Boomark:

Michael.

The armies are angels but may not be all the angels. Nigeria soldiers does not mean all nigerians are soldiers.

so, michael the angel now receives worship abi?

I thought ordinary loyal angels in the bible dont receives worship?

You see! you have ended up agreeing that regular angel receives worship because you will not say that the captain/archangel = Jesus christ.

Keep contradicting what the bible says.

You are on your own.

obadiah777: HUN YOU KNOW SCRIPTURE ALREADY TOLD ME NOT TO READ 30 PAGE THREADS. IT IS NOT GOOD FOR MY BODY
ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 12 much study is a weariness of the flesh. <<<< LOL
BUT THANKS FOR THE SUMMARY OF THE ARGUMENTS. THE GROUP THAT SAY CHRIST DID NOT PRE-EXIST BEFORE THE NEW TESTAMENT NEED TO BE FLOGGED WITH HORSEWHIP

I ALREADY PROVED HE NEED. LET ME GO GET THE VERSES

it is frosbel that says that christ did not preexist.

obadiah777: HEY I NEVER SAID I WAS ABOVE ERRING . I DO OCCASIONALLY ERR. NOT ONE MAN IN THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THE WHOLE BIBLE. IT IS A 1000 PAGE SMALL LETTERED BOOK. SO I AM PERMITTED TO ERR ONCE IN A WHILE.

am beginning to like you for this statement.

Just keep such an open mind while studying the bible.

Peace.

obadiah777: NOW ALL THIS IS JUST VAIN OPINIONS. YOU DO ERR

So give a shot at those Hebrew verses. I will be waiting for my turn to use the "erring" word.

truthislight:

it is frosbel that says that christ did not preexist.

YEAH FROSBEL IS A WELL KNOWN CHARLATAN AROUND THESE PARTS

truthislight:

so, michael the angel now receives worship abi?

I thought ordinary loyal angels in the bible dont receives worship?

You see! you have ended up agreeing that regular angel receives worship because you will not say that the captain/archangel = Jesus christ.

Keep contradicting what the bible says.

You are on your own.

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

truthislight:

am beginning to like you for this statement.

Just keep such an open mind while studying the bible.

Peace.

OH YOU ONLY LIKE ME WHEN I ERR. SEE THIS ENEMY OF PROGRESS *SMDH*

Boomark:

Ya. But that will be if the archangel is not an angel himself.

all spirit creatures that do the bidding of Yahweh are messengers and that automaticall qualifies all to be called angels.

But of all, Jesus christ is the unique.

Jesus christ is the first of them all.

jesus is outstanding one since he is Yahweh's spoke man = the word.

Jesus christ is the one that Yahweh used in creating all things. 1 col 1:15-17.

Jesus is the leader of Yahweh army.

Jesus s an only beggoton son of Yahweh.

So, "to which of the angels" is a statement meant to highlight Jesus uniqueness. The foremost one.

Boomark:



So give a shot at those Hebrew verses. I will be waiting for my turn to use the "erring" word.

THOSE VERSES ? HEBREW 1 VS 5 AND 13 MEANS THERE IS ONLY ONE CHRIST. ONLY ONE SAVIOR. THATS ALL ITS SAYING.AND THAT CHRIST IS ABOVE ALL THE ANGELS. THATS IT

@Boomark

(a) “Who makes His angels spirits
And
(b) His ministers a flame of fire. (HEB 1:7)

you seemed to have confused 'all the spirit creatures form'(that is their appearances) to that of 'only the angels',
that is you believed that it is only the the spirit angels that has the appearance of 'flaming fire'

but, lets treat the spirit uniformity among the heavenly host first, to satisfy (a) above, “Who makes His angels spirits;

other heavenly creatures too are ministers/servants all working for the supreme God.they are also spirit, lets prove that;

lets see how the heavenly host appearance looks like; they all have the ''flame of fire/lightening appearance''
who constitutes the heavenly hosts? Note here ‘with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host’

"And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying," (Luke 2:13).

some of those who form the heavenly host with angel;

1, The Living creatures....(part of heavenly hosts)

Ezekiel 1:13
''As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire,and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.

2, [b]Angels (part of heavenly hosts)
Heb 1:7
And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.

3, twenty-four elders From the ‘already seated thrones’ by the elders came flashes of lightning

revelation 4:4-5
‘’Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. 5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder’’.

having treat the (spirit uniformity) above, now we treat;

(b) His ministers a flame of fire. (HEB 1:7)


Psalm 103:20-21
King James Version (KJV)

20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
21 Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.

Psalm 103:21 (niv)
21 Praise the LORD, all his heavenly hosts, you his servants who do his will.

Summary,

''His ministers a flame of fire''.

It has been proven above that heavenly ‘hosts’ which includes (1)the 24 elders,(2)the living creatures with the spirit (3)angels all are ministers/servants from the above verses.since they are all spirit creatures as agreed, [i]'there is nothing like angelic beign, but diffrent oversights,that is spirit creatures are delegated duties as a team,playing different role, all in a united aim to minister/serve God!


Any objection?!

come with blblical quotes, note opinions pls!

truthislight:

all spirit creatures that do the bidding of Yahweh are messengers and that automaticall qualifies all to be called angels.

But of all, Jesus christ is the unique.

Jesus christ is the first of them all.

jesus is outstanding one since he is Yahweh's spoken = the word.

Jesus christ is the one that Yahweh used in creating all things. 1 col 1:15-17.

Jesus is the leader of Yahweh army.

Jesus s an only beggoton son of Yahweh.

So, "to which of the angels" is a statement meant to highlight Jesus uniqueness. The foremost one.

GOOD!

He is still a messenger but not an angel. He is above the angels and not an angel when the decree "to which of the angels...." was made. This is because God can make his messenger not equal to the angels.

Boomark:

Hebrew is what they can't crack. If the Son was an angel, that rhetoric question wouldn't have been asked. So for the archangel to fit into this he must not be an angels. He must have been created above the angels he leads.

what do you mean that the rhetoric question would not have been asked.

That you dont understand the essence of the question does not mean it does contradict what we are saying.

If i am a king and i have a first son that have done exceedingly well in all things and he is outstanding in all his activities and i wish to reward him with my throne and i ask the rhetoric question, " and to which of my son did i say you will have my throne"?

Does that mean he is not my son anymore?

No, he is, but i am praising my outstanding first born son that he is unique and very unique compared to the other sons.

Stop westing our time and bandwidth.

Boomark:

Its part of the things that make us laugh for those that understand. The vex-laff ratio is 1/3 or 0/3. Though i don't know about others. Keep it coming.

he should drop the "you err" thing since we are all still learning.

ijawkid: Hmmmmm...........

I've been missing in action.......it seems I have to get myself back into this thread......

.........................

Now what is haPpening??.....

were have you been?

Nos! Nos! Nos!

obadiah777: THOSE VERSES ? HEBREW 1 VS 5 AND 13 MEANS THERE IS ONLY ONE CHRIST. ONLY ONE SAVIOR. THATS ALL ITS SAYING.AND THAT CHRIST IS ABOVE ALL THE ANGELS. THATS IT

Ya. Including the mighty archangel Michael. But they disagree. This is the bone of contention.

Boomark:

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

if michael is not Jesus christ then how many persons are allowed to receive worship in among Yahweh's loyal organisation?

obadiah777: OH YOU ONLY LIKE ME WHEN I ERR. SEE THIS ENEMY OF PROGRESS *SMDH*

not really, keeping an open mind and not maintaining that you are the only one that is right and never giving consideration to what other bible portions are saying.

And not when the portion does not suit you you resort to saying " it is spiritual/symbolicalal"

having an open mind is a blessing sometimes and that is why i am saying that with this new disposition, discussing with you will be more fun.

Peace.

Boomark:

GOOD!

He is still a messenger but not an angel. He is above the angels and not an angel when the decree "to which of the angels...." was made. This is because God can make his messenger not equal to the angels.

the angels first and foremost are all Yahweh's sons befor being messengers:

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:7).

That i have 10 sons does not mean they are all equal and have the same capacity.

My first born son is hair to my throne and as such he is unique.

Jesus is the first born of all of Yahweh's creation and as such he is unique.

Dont be confused.

Dont be a 1 scripture bible student, see the bigger picture.

Jesus like every other angel is a son to Yahweh.

But he is the first son and have the highest authority.
Peace

Boomark:

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

@ boomark

come and answer thisquestion and dont avoid it and later post anything you like here.

truthislight:

if michael is not Jesus christ then how many persons are allowed to receive worship in among Yahweh's loyal organisation?

am waiting.

Here:


if michael is not Jesus christ then how many persons are allowed to receive worship in among Yahweh's loyal organisation?

Boomark:

Ya. Including the mighty archangel Michael. But they disagree. This is the bone of contention.

No, you are still getting it all wrong, Why are you saying including "Archangel Michael"? Michael & Jesus = same person.

Archangel is an Angel, but He plays unique roles, He has authourities other angels have not.
So He has not thesame reward/name as his compagnion. Remember when God warns the Israelite in (Exodus 23:02-23)
And this same event Paul clearly made plain to us that It was Christ, (1 Corinthians 10:1-4) you are yet to open heart to accept this

Do you think the Exodus 23:02-23 "Angel" was an ordinary Angel?
The truth is that, Those Hebrews verses are simple to understand when studied with no bias mind.

truthislight:

@ boomark

come and answer thisquestion and dont avoid it and later post anything you like here.


am waiting.

Here:


if michael is not Jesus christ then how many persons are allowed to receive worship in among Yahweh's loyal organisation?

That is a tough question that deserves a direct/clear answer!

Boomark:

GOOD!

He is still a messenger but not an angel. He is above the angels and not an angel when the decree "to which of the angels...." was made. This is because God can make his messenger not equal to the angels.

Your opinion is not Gods own broda.....
Now, let see who the "Angel of the LORD" in the story of Moses and the burning bush identifies:
Just a brief of it, because if we really want to go in lenght, you will see that It was Christ. With this very short writeup, you will almost conclude it is Yewheh Himself, like bro.. Buzugee did. But this is normal !

Exo 3:2 And the *angel of the LORD* appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Now in verses 4 and 6, who is identified as being in the bush?- lets see:

Exo 3:4 And when the "LORD" saw that he turned aside to see, "God" called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses.
And he said, Here am I. 6 Moreover he said, (*I am*) the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Did you notice that the "Angel" of verse 2 is really none other than God Himself.? How will you accept such? when it says it was an ANGEL that appeared

The NT confirmed it bro.....

Acts 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an *angel of the Lord* in a flame of fire in a bush.
Acts 7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

You can see that the Lord is now used in place of the "Angel of the LORD".

obadiah777: HUN YOU KNOW SCRIPTURE ALREADY TOLD ME NOT TO READ 30 PAGE THREADS. IT IS NOT GOOD FOR MY BODY
ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 12 much study is a weariness of the flesh. <<<< LOL
BUT THANKS FOR THE SUMMARY OF THE ARGUMENTS. THE GROUP THAT SAY CHRIST DID NOT PRE-EXIST BEFORE THE NEW TESTAMENT NEED TO BE FLOGGED WITH HORSEWHIP

I ALREADY PROVED HE NEED. LET ME GO GET THE VERSES

That group is Frosbel and his likes
Do not wast ur time, Frosbel has recieved several scriptures disproving his claim. from @truthislight,ijewkid, boomark, truugon and even myself here....
He has skiped them all....maybe He will concur to your qoutes who knows

Boomark:

Hmm...
It is not a group o! Just one person only. So you need to channel your horsewhip to frosbel's but'tocks

Did you ignore @Frosbel's likes?

ijawkid: Hmmmmm...........

I've been missing in action.......it seems I have to get myself back into this thread......

.........................

Now what is haPpening??.....

Wetin you dey wait?
Oya, Come begin wet ground jooor, we don miss you small!

Boomark:

Ya. Including the mighty archangel Michael. But they disagree. This is the bone of contention.

I really don't get your struggle with this.

Is/was Jesus a spirit messenger of God? It's a resounding YES.

Is Jesus higher than all other spirit messengers? Another resounding YES.

Does the Bible give reasons to believe that Jesus commands/leads angels (the Archangel role/function)? Of course YES, from the following verses:
[b]
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done."
Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory."
Mark 8:38 "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."
Luke 9:26 "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."
1 Thessalonians 3:13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
2 Thessalonians 1:7b This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.
Revelation 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. [/b]

That's exactly the point of Hebrews 1:5, 13. Nothing there precludes the possibility of Jesus playing the role of Archangel (or leader of angels/messengers of God) when occasion demands it. It also doesn't stop Jesus from playing the other mighty roles God assigned to him - King (Mighty God), Prince of Peace, Eternal Father, Mediator, etc.

"For to which of the angels (= messengers) did God ever say, “You are my Son""... nothing here indicates that the person of attention ( Jesus) is not God's foremost messenger. The purpose of the verses is to highlight his superiorty to the rest.

This thread. . .

TroGunn:

I really don't get your struggle with this.

Is/was Jesus a spirit messenger of God? It's a resounding YES.

Is Jesus higher than all other spirit messengers? Another resounding YES.

Does the Bible give reasons to believe that Jesus commands/leads angels (the Archangel role/function)? Of course YES, from the following verses:
[b]
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done."
Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory."
Mark 8:38 "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."
Luke 9:26 "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."
1 Thessalonians 3:13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
2 Thessalonians 1:7b This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.
Revelation 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. [/b]

That's exactly the point of Hebrews 1:5, 13. Nothing there precludes the possibility of Jesus playing the role of Archangel (or leader of angels/messengers of God) when occasion demands it. It also doesn't stop Jesus from playing the other mighty roles God assigned to him - King (Mighty God), Prince of Peace, Eternal Father, Mediator, etc.

"For to which of the angels (= messengers) did God ever say, “You are my Son""... nothing here indicates that the person of attention ( Jesus) is not God's foremost messenger. The purpose of the verses is to highlight his superiorty to the rest.

This has been my stance all along...............

1....The scriptures has proven that Jesus was called an angel(angelios).....

2....The scriptures has proven Jesus is the appointed leader of Gods angels,of which Jesus is the foremost of them all....

3...The scriptures have revealed parallels between the actions of michael and Jesus,and they are one and the same.......

________________________________

This is precept upon precept,here a little there a little.....

truthislight:

if michael is not Jesus christ then how many persons are allowed to receive worship in among Yahweh's loyal organisation?

I asked you to point out the nonsense i wrote before but you didn't. I asked you if Michael is an ordinary angel, you didn't answer.

plappville:

No, you are still getting it all wrong, Why are you saying including "Archangel Michael"? Michael & Jesus = same person.

Archangel is an Angel, but He plays unique roles, He has authourities other angels have not.
So He has not thesame reward/name as his compagnion. Remember when God warns the Israelite in (Exodus 23:02-23)
And this same event Paul clearly made plain to us that It was Christ, (1 Corinthians 10:1-4) you are yet to open heart to accept this

Do you think the Exodus 23:02-23 "Angel" was an ordinary Angel?
The truth is that, Those Hebrews verses are simple to understand when studied with no bias mind.

Hebrew disagree with that.

The archangel is great and a prince too. A princely angel has more honour than other angels.

Bookmark I commend your perseverance on this matter.

Hopefully, if I have time during this holiday, we can both do justice to this subject once and for all.