plappville:

Did you ignore @Frosbel's likes?

On pre-existence? Who are they?

Boomark:

I asked you to point out the nonsense i wrote before but you didn't. I asked you if Michael is an ordinary angel, you didn't answer.

seal your mouth and seal your mouth and seal it well.

If you know you will not continue to seal you mouth, then please answer this question:

Boomark:

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

@ boomark

come and answer thisquestion and dont avoid it and later post anything you like here.

truthislight:

if michael is not Jesus christ then how many persons are allowed to receive worship in among Yahweh's loyal organisation?

am waiting.

Here:


if michael is not Jesus christ then how many persons are allowed to receive worship in among Yahweh's loyal organisation?

Boomark:

Hebrew disagree with that.

The archangel is great and a prince too. A princely angel has more honour than other angels.

The fact that the Archangel is also a prince should be another pointer to Christ. Being a prince denotes rulership. Christ is clearly Prince of Peace. Doubt you have other angels being referred to as Prince other than Michael. If Michael is not Christ, which kingdom does he/will he rule?
About this 'ordinary' angel matter, while not looking down on the service of God's faithful angels, Michael being Archangel clearly is more superior to the angels he leads.

Boomark:

Hebrew disagree with that.

The archangel is great and a prince too. A princely angel has more honour than other angels.

If
Id Michael is à prince and Jesus is also à prince. And u do not agree they re same being. Are you now suggesting two princes in Yahweh's Kingdom? Michael is great, Jesus is also great accordung to him. Cant you see the match? Thesame problème trinitarians are having. Holding tightly (john 1:1) ignoring other sculptures. Just to make à point...SMH

Trollin. . .

pastormustwacc: Trollin. . .

Oboy where u go chuk head since na??....

This thread don gather enough pages o......

I visit this thread every day and have read every comment (many times over). As the original poster, i am very interested in the thread and the end if possible.

Boomark:

On pre-existence? Who are they?

Good question, thats far bk, maybe p7 - p10 icant scroll bk now. It's not important, just, for joke sake....

pastormustwacc: I visit this thread every day and have read every comment (many times over). As the original poster, i am very interested in the thread and the end if possible.

Bros @Boomark, has décleared this thread as unendding..... . Keeping us busy here...

This thread has raised many other questions - like preexistence of jesus, trinity, angel, angel of covenant, jesus = god or purely man and others. a good read.

a

@Boomark

i adressed you and ubenedictus earlier on this,but you never replied, only to see this below;

Hebrew is what they can't crack. If the Son was an angel, that rhetoric question wouldn't have been asked. So for the archangel to fit into this he must not be an angels. He must have been created above the angels he leads.

see it again, there is nothing in that hebrews 1, that i have not adressed, but on the use of rhetorical question, see my reply to both you and ube,

@ubenedictus and
@Boomark(pls ignore the part that concerns ube and trinity i knew you are not one)

d wiki d quote said one plays two parts of a stage usually when one asks and answers himself! This isnt the case in heb 1, paul doesnt ask and answers his question, he isnt playing two parts of a stage.

firstly, i dont expect you to see the answer expecially when you are determined to reason from the trinitarian angle! and that has led you into this mistake of using a wrong gramatical example (erotema) in describing my own figure of reasoning (anthypophora)below

Just d way "can't u do good?" implys d subject fails in doing good so does "to which of the angels has God ever said "..."? Imply that he has never said it to anyone!

i will advice that You need to understand what 'rhetorical questions' inludes and all the different usages,
"can't u do good?" or ''why are you so stupid''? are examples of [erotema];'The technical term for rhetorical questions in general' and the aim is to ''affirm or deny a point strongly by asking it as a question''. no one is disputing that! im not making a case for [erotema]



we have other kinds of rhetorical questions, in which one asks the opinion of those listening, called [anacoenosis]. and many more......!

rather,

the one im reffering to,as quoted in the wiki, thus ''especially when the speaker both asks and answers them himself, as if he were playing two parts on the stage'' is known as ; [anthypophora]

Anthypophora is a figure of reasoning in which one asks and then immediately answers one's own questions (or raises and then settles imaginary objections). Reasoning aloud.

Anthypophora sometimes takes the form of asking the audience or one's adversary what can be said on a matter, and thus can involve both anacoenosis and apostrophe.

rhetorical uses, the question as a grammatical form has important rhetorical dimensions;
examples are;

# Is the Republican party the best? I think not. Why else were they beaten? Because they are no longer in touch with the people.

# Are they ministers of Christ? I am talking like a madman--I am a better one..." II Cor. 11:22-23.

so also,[size=14pt] verse 4 and 5 of hebrews 1, were to be read altogether [/i]this way [/size](see the bridge between vs4 and 5 in the first word in vs5 [size=16pt]'for'[/size])the answer is contained in verse 4, fortunately provided by the same writer;

hebrews 1:4-5;

4, Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5, [size=16pt]For[/size] unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

[i]''To which of the angels did He say: "You are my son...."? is criminally seperated from a context,thereby rendering it impotent.

the point here is that the answer is within the context and the writer presents it in a technical way, hence the argument!

Anthypophora uses the principle of rhetorical questions to ask questions which the speaker wishes to answer. as you see above.
Boomark

plappville:

That group is Frosbel and his likes
Do not wast ur time, Frosbel has recieved several scriptures disproving his claim. from @truthislight,ijewkid, boomark, truugon and even myself here....
He has skiped them all....maybe He will concur to your qoutes who knows

ONLY THING FROSBEL CONCURS TO IS HIS OWN DOCTRINE. LOLZ. WE SHALL LEAVE HIM IN HIS OWN FOLLY I BELIEVE FROSBEL SAID A HOLY GHOST PUT THE BABY IN MARYS STOMACH <<< CRAZY TALK *SMH*

TroGunn:

I really don't get your struggle with this.

Is/was Jesus a spirit messenger of God? It's a resounding YES.

Is Jesus higher than all other spirit messengers? Another resounding YES.

Does the Bible give reasons to believe that Jesus commands/leads angels (the Archangel role/function)? Of course YES, from the following verses:
[b]
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done."
Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory."
Mark 8:38 "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."
Luke 9:26 "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."
1 Thessalonians 3:13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
2 Thessalonians 1:7b This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.
Revelation 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. [/b]

That's exactly the point of Hebrews 1:5, 13. Nothing there precludes the possibility of Jesus playing the role of Archangel (or leader of angels/messengers of God) when occasion demands it. It also doesn't stop Jesus from playing the other mighty roles God assigned to him - King (Mighty God), Prince of Peace, Eternal Father, Mediator, etc.

"For to which of the angels (= messengers) did God ever say, “You are my Son""... nothing here indicates that the person of attention ( Jesus) is not God's foremost messenger. The purpose of the verses is to highlight his superiorty to the rest.

AND I REPEAT. BOOKMARK IS A DRUNK. HOW HE GETS THAT MICHEAL THE ARCHANGEL IS NOT CHRIST FROM HIS HEBREW 1 VS 5 AND 13 IS BEYOND ME. BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANGEL AND ARCHANGEL

pastormustwacc: This thread. . .

THE THREAD IS GOING STRONG SIRE. THAT STONE THAT YOU REJECTED HAS BECOME A STUMBLING BLOCK

ijawkid:

This has been my stance all along...............

1....The scriptures has proven that Jesus was called an angel(angelios).....

2....The scriptures has proven Jesus is the appointed leader of Gods angels,of which Jesus is the foremost of them all....

3...The scriptures have revealed parallels between the actions of michael and Jesus,and they are one and the same.......

________________________________

This is precept upon precept,here a little there a little.....

YOU ARE RIGHT. AND I DID ERR A LITTLE YESTERDAY. YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW I KNOW THAT THE ARCHANGEL MICHEAL IS CHRIST ? CHRIST IS FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH AND CAME TO DIE FOR ISRAEL. MATTHEW 15 VS 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. <<<< SO CHRIST IS AN ISRAELITE FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH ( HEBREW 7 VS 14 ) WHO CAME TO GIVE SALVATION TO THE ELECT OF ISRAEL.

AND IN SPEAKING TO DANIEL, ALSO AN ELECT OF ISRAEL THIS IS WHAT THE LORD TOLD HIM

DANIEL 12 VS 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people <<< JESUS AS MICHEAL STANDING UP FOR DANIELS PEOPLE WHO WILL BE ISRAEL. CASE CLOSED

obadiah777: YOU ARE RIGHT. AND I DID ERR A LITTLE YESTERDAY. YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW I KNOW THAT THE ARCHANGEL MICHEAL IS CHRIST ? CHRIST IS FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH AND CAME TO DIE FOR ISRAEL. MATTHEW 15 VS 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. <<<< SO CHRIST IS AN ISRAELITE FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH ( HEBREW 7 VS 14 ) WHO CAME TO GIVE SALVATION TO THE ELECT OF ISRAEL.

AND IN SPEAKING TO DANIEL, ALSO AN ELECT OF ISRAEL THIS IS WHAT THE LORD TOLD HIM

DANIEL 12 VS 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people <<< JESUS AS MICHEAL STANDING UP FOR DANIELS PEOPLE WHO WILL BE ISRAEL. CASE CLOSED

Now you see why we are twin brothers....let's drink to this...

Oya make I go buy 2 bottles of heineken.........

Its all about precept upon precepts bro.....

ijawkid:

Now you see why we are twin brothers....let's drink to this...

Oya make I go buy 2 bottles of heineken.........

Its all about precept upon precepts bro.....

LMAO. DUNNO BOUT THE DRINK BRAH. I AM 6 DAYS SOBER I WANT TO GIVE IT UP ENTIRELY. THE THING DEY DRAIN MY VITAMINS AND MINERALS.BUT WE GO CELEBRATE WITH VITAMALT LOLZ. BROS HOW NAIJA ? OH BOY THAT FRONTPAGE, NA SCARY NEWS WE DEY HEAR SHA. TODAY NA TRAILER PLUNGE, TOMORROW NA PLANE, THEN HELICOPTER, THEN BOKO HARAM, THEN FLOOD, THEN CHARLIE BOY BUTT NEKKID IN MAGAZINE <<

obadiah777: LMAO. DUNNO BOUT THE DRINK BRAH. I AM 6 DAYS SOBER I WANT TO GIVE IT UP ENTIRELY. THE THING DEY DRAIN MY VITAMINS AND MINERALS.BUT WE GO CELEBRATE WITH VITAMALT LOLZ. BROS HOW NAIJA ? OH BOY THAT FRONTPAGE, NA SCARY NEWS WE DEY HEAR SHA. TODAY NA TRAILER PLUNGE, TOMORROW NA PLANE, THEN HELICOPTER, THEN BOKO HARAM, THEN FLOOD, THEN CHARLIE BOY BUTT NEKKID IN MAGAZINE <<

My bro na so o........bad news all over naija.......smh!!!!....

As for charlie boy just leave that mad man alone.......na to do yeye things him sabi........

The helicopter crash took place in bayelsa my state......the governor was on a frolic movement when this dilemma caught up with him..........you know how naija politicians move about unnecessarily........

My bro its just sad news everywhere......
___________________________

I can get maltina or some pepsi if heineken would drain your system....lol.......

ijawkid:

My bro na so o........bad news all over naija.......smh!!!!....

As for charlie boy just leave that mad man alone.......na to do yeye things him sabi........

The helicopter crash took place in bayelsa my state......the governor was on a frolic movement when this dilemma caught up with him..........you know how naija politicians move about unnecessarily........

My bro its just sad news everywhere......
___________________________

I can get maltina or some pepsi if heineken would drain your system....lol.......

WELL YOU KNOW ALL ISSUES OF DEATH IS FROM THE LORD ( I KNOW THIS IS ONE SCRIPTURE YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME ON LOLZ.) BUT I GOT THE VERSES. PSALMS 68 VS 20, 1 SAMUEL 2 VS 6, DEUTERONOMY 32 VS 39, AMOS 3 VS 6, ISAIAH 45 VS 7, LAMENTATIONS 3 VS 38. SO THESE ARE JUDGEMENTS BEEN HANDED OUT. SCRIPTURE DO SAY THE LORD WILL NOT MAKE A RIGHTEOUS PERSON PERISH ( JOB 4 VS 7 ) ( JOB 8 VS 20 ). EITHER WAY, GOD KNOWS BEST. MALTINA SOUNDS MIGHT FINE

obadiah777: WELL YOU KNOW ALL ISSUES OF DEATH IS FROM THE LORD ( I KNOW THIS IS ONE SCRIPTURE YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME ON LOLZ.) BUT I GOT THE VERSES. PSALMS 68 VS 20, 1 SAMUEL 2 VS 6, DEUTERONOMY 32 VS 39, AMOS 3 VS 6, ISAIAH 45 VS 7, LAMENTATIONS 3 VS 38. SO THESE ARE JUDGEMENTS BEEN HANDED OUT. SCRIPTURE DO SAY THE LORD WILL NOT MAKE A RIGHTEOUS PERSON PERISH ( JOB 4 VS 7 ) ( JOB 8 VS 20 ). EITHER WAY, GOD KNOWS BEST. MALTINA SOUNDS MIGHT FINE

I know for sure that some of these greedy men are reaping what they must have sown sometime ago......

you know I'll always disagree with you when it concerns innocent persons............

Hope you'll be coming to naija soon...??...

No fear ya country o...lol...

ijawkid:

I know for sure that some of these greedy men are reaping what they must have sown sometime ago......

you know I'll always disagree with you when it concerns innocent persons............

Hope you'll be coming to naija soon...??...

No fear ya country o...lol...

BROS I DEY WORK ON AM. I GO FULL GROUND SOON GOD WILLING. OH BOY THOSE WEY PERISH NO BE INNOCENT OOOOOOO ( JOB 4 VS 7 ) ( JOB 8 VS 20 ) <<<< CHECK THOSE 2 VERSES OUT IN THE KJV. INNOCENT PERSON NO DEY PERISH. I AM SURE YOU BELIEVE BABA GOD WHEN HE SAYS THAT. I NO FEAR NAIJA AT ALL. THE POWER WEY DEY IN ME DEY GREATER THAN ALL THE DEMONS WEY DEY FOR THAT SIDE

obadiah777: BROS I DEY WORK ON AM. I GO FULL GROUND SOON GOD WILLING. OH BOY THOSE WEY PERISH NO BE INNOCENT OOOOOOO ( JOB 4 VS 7 ) ( JOB 8 VS 20 ) <<<< CHECK THOSE 2 VERSES OUT IN THE KJV. INNOCENT PERSON NO DEY PERISH. I AM SURE YOU BELIEVE BABA GOD WHEN HE SAYS THAT. I NO FEAR NAIJA AT ALL. THE POWER WEY DEY IN ME DEY GREATER THAN ALL THE DEMONS WEY DEY FOR THAT SIDE

my guy,

i hope you know that some of the statement in Job were made by the fake/false advisers/companion of Job?

Besides, God will not punish the righteouse yes, but the ruler of this world is satan and as such evil can still happen to the righteouse once.

"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in the hand of the wicked one" (1 John 5:19).

TroGunn:

The fact that the Archangel is also a prince should be another pointer to Christ. Being a prince denotes rulership. Christ is clearly Prince of Peace. Doubt you have other angels being referred to as Prince other than Michael. If Michael is not Christ, which kingdom does he/will he rule?
About this 'ordinary' angel matter, while not looking down on the service of God's faithful angels, Michael being Archangel clearly is more superior to the angels he leads.

Daniel 10:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 But the prince of the Persian
kingdom resisted me twenty-one
days. Then Michael, one of the chief
princes, came to help me, because I
was detained there with the king
of Persia.

Chief/foremost princes is not just one person. They are more than one. Michael is the prince of the people.

plappville:

Good question, thats far bk, maybe p7 - p10 icant scroll bk now. It's not important, just, for joke sake....

Yea, i now remember he has a group. That article is one his group members.

Boomark:

Daniel 10:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 But the prince of the Persian
kingdom resisted me twenty-one
days. Then Michael, one of the chief
princes, came to help me, because I
was detained there with the king
of Persia.

Chief/foremost princes is not just one person. They are more than one. Michael is the prince of the people.

And the other princes are the prince of persia ,prince of babylon,prince of the anglo/american world power.........

Jesus is the prince of Gods people(both the natural isrealites back then and the isreal of God today)...........


That same daniel mentioned the other foremost princes........

obadiah777: YOU ARE RIGHT. AND I DID ERR A LITTLE YESTERDAY. YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW I KNOW THAT THE ARCHANGEL MICHEAL IS CHRIST ? CHRIST IS FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH AND CAME TO DIE FOR ISRAEL. MATTHEW 15 VS 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. <<<< SO CHRIST IS AN ISRAELITE FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH ( HEBREW 7 VS 14 ) WHO CAME TO GIVE SALVATION TO THE ELECT OF ISRAEL.

AND IN SPEAKING TO DANIEL, ALSO AN ELECT OF ISRAEL THIS IS WHAT THE LORD TOLD HIM

DANIEL 12 VS 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people <<< JESUS AS MICHEAL STANDING UP FOR DANIELS PEOPLE WHO WILL BE ISRAEL. CASE CLOSED

This was how you closed a case yesterday. I opened it again.

Try that Hebrew verses and see.

Christ is still a messenger now but not an angel. He still possess flaming fire looks.

# Is the Republican party the
best? I think not. Why else were
they beaten? Because they are no
longer in touch with the people.

# Are they ministers of Christ? I
am talking like a madman--I am
a better one..." II Cor. 11:22-23.
so also, verse 4 and 5 of hebrews

1, were to be read altogether [/
i]this way (see the bridge
between vs4 and 5 in the first
word in vs5 'for')the answer is
contained in verse 4, fortunately
provided by the same writer;
hebrews 1:4-5;
4, Being made so much better
than the angels, as he hath by
inheritance obtained a more
excellent name than they.
5, For unto which of the angels
said he at any time, Thou art my
Son, this day have I begotten
thee? And again, I will be to him
a Father, and he shall be to me a
Son?
[i]''To which of the angels did He
say: "You are my son...."? is
criminally seperated from a
context,thereby rendering it
impotent.
the point here is that the answer
is within the context and the
writer presents it in a technical
way, hence the argument!
Anthypophora uses the principle
of rhetorical questions to ask
questions which the speaker
wishes to answer. as you see
above.
Boomark

Rhetorical questions always have an already made answer for it which ever type of rhetorical question it is. So tell us the answer to Hebrew 1:5.

The decree is the focal point. You said the answer should be within the context, why then do you criminally separate v5 from the context?

@boomark

Rhetorical questions always have[b] an already made answer for it[/b] which ever type of rhetorical question it is.

before i proceed, are you changing your stand that,Rhetorical questions do not expect any other question, that is the 'question itself' also pose as the answer, because when you say 'an already made answer' is it within the context of the idea, or within the sole question itself?

So tell us the answer to Hebrew 1:5.

4, Being made so much better
than the angels, as he hath by
inheritance obtained a more
excellent name than they.
5, For unto which of the angels
said he at any time, Thou art my
Son, this day have I begotten
thee? And again, I will be to him
a Father, and he shall be to me a
Son?

bolded is the answer! par 4,5 are joint statement! 'for' in the beggining of par 5 confirm a continous idea in the the statement,and hence vs5 cannot stand alone!

The decree is the focal point. You said the answer should be within the context, why then do you criminally separate v5 from the context?

i never did, but rather joined it rightly so as to make a meaning!

@barristers

Rhetoric questions has answer ready for it. If you are asking so many questions without answers or the following questions implying the answer, then what you are asking is a direct question.
As an heir and due to his inheritance, he was better than the angels and not at their level or one of them.

@boomark

Rhetoric questions has answer ready for it. If you are asking so many questions without answers or the following questions implying the answer, then what you are asking is a direct question.

[size=14pt]As an heir and due to his inheritance, he was better than the angels and not at their level or one of them[/size].

an heir

he was appointed 'an heir' not when in the heaven;

bolded above, heb 1 verse 2;whom He [size=14pt]has appointed[/size] heir of all things.

his appoitment as heir of all things. is confirmed after his fuffilment on earth;

phill 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name.

that is the [b]dramatic answer [/b]the rhetoric question is trying to pose, im only trating verse 2 alongside because it is parrallel with verse 4, which highlight jesus rise after his obtaining 'a better' name!

BARRISTERS: @boomark

an heir

he was appointed 'an heir' not when in the heaven;

bolded above, heb 1 verse 2;whom He [size=14pt]has appointed[/size] heir of all things.

his appoitment as heir of all things. is confirmed after his fuffilment on earth;

phill 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name.

that is the [b]dramatic answer [/b]the rhetoric question is trying to pose, im only trating verse 2 alongside because it is parrallel with verse 4, which highlight jesus rise after his obtaining 'a better' name!

So the decree "You are my son..." was made after his stay on earth?