frosbel: @ BARRISTERS


Jesus is neither GOD nor an angel.

He is quite simply the SON of GOD , the Messiah and the Christ.


I will not allow you spread error.

and what have you presented to warrant you to say that you "wount let him spraed lies"?

You are the one exposing your leck of debt in this topic since you only jump in and shout without evidence.

Maybe you want to to start a new movement for yourself.

:

*dhtml:

Meeeen, i wonder o. See all them big big scriptures sef, sure say all these scriptures dey inside my bible so?

you dont need to let opinionated person with scriptural evidence to blind you to the evidence for.

The are just hear saying "Jesus is not" without showing why he is not.

So, a wise person weighs the evidence and draws his conclussion.

chukwudi44: . 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said,
[/b]“The Lord rebuke you!”
[b][a] 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational

animals do—will destroy them.

Obviously even the arch angel micheal acknowleged he was not the Lord yet people are here yarning thrash.

is the title lord not also applied to Yahweh?

Who is yarning the "trash" you said?

Ndipe:

Angels cant be worshipped, it's unscriptural to worship Angels, so whom Joshua met and bowed down to was likely Jesus Christ.

but the same Jesus is the commander.

And michael is also the commander.

Boomark:

If you Google Da 10:13, you will see various translations from 'bible.cc.' I use NWT and NKJV, both gave me one of the 'foremost princes and chief princes.' I also saw 'archangels' in some other translations.

When Michael rises, there are things he does. He will protect and stand for the saints at that time from satan. Christ will not do everything alone. His angels have roles they will. Michael will rise because he is mighty and he has a great role to play at that time.


Hebrew1:5
New International Version
(©1984)
For to which of the angels
did God ever say, "You are
my Son; today I have
become your Father"? Or
again, "I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son"?

New Living Translation
(©2007)
For God never said to any
angel what he said to
Jesus: "You are my Son.
Today I have become your
Father." God also said, "I
will be his Father, and he
will be my Son."

Hebrew will not accept an angel being the 'Son.' It is not my fault. We still come back to this point even after making the "shout", "voice of an archangel" and "the trumpet of God", Michaels.

as though all angels are not sons of yaweh.

The point about that Hebrew is that there is an outstanding of the sons of yahweh, the foremost of them all.

.

chukwudi44:

You are a very big fool and idiotic liar!! Daniel 10:13 was written in aramaic and not hebrew nor greek and that particular verse is translated arch chief angel,arch angel or chief prince depending on the bible translation.Even if I were to to deal with prince instead of angel,the phrase "one of the chief princes" clearly indicates micheal had peers who who occuppied the same strata of authourity with him.That is obviously not the case with Jesus who was higher than every created thing.

that a king have many children that are prince and princeses does that mean that all the prince are equal? No.

The most senior one will rule should the king dies.

Yahweh have cherubs and saraph as high ranking princes, but the greatest of them all is Jesus christ and he and the arch angel does exactly the same things in the bible.

So why duplicate the arch angels?

Are you saying that Jesus christ assignment from Yahweh after his faithfullness is not unique? That all other high ranking angels that never suffered what Jesus suffered will also have same privilages?

Did you see how shallow your statement and argument are?

Our lord assigment are spercial from yahweh and this are things that he has been actively participating in even befor he came to earth and he has enhance prophersies to this effect, and after he has been reveal step into this mighty role assigne to him.

All other name in heaven are to be subject to him except yahweh.

He was given more elevation after his resurrection after waiting in the right hand of his father.

Which other creature has receive such elevation that they will shear with him in this glory?

But you will tell me that this are assignment that other angels have been promised already, so what makes his assignment unique?

The promise of what angel michael will do were for the same person = Jesus.

chukwudi44:

Stop cursing and produce where micheal was described as the captain of all angels? Is that too much to ask? Show me where micheal was described as the captain of all angels

we all know that a commander is one that the gives oders/instructions/lead others.

Jesus lead his angels at Rev. 12 and Rev. 1:11-18 to first battle satan in heaven and letter destroy the wicked.

A commander comes with his troop and this too have angels that follow him and the referenc is to the commander of the troop like in every rational reference to military troop the reference is to the commander but to you no, it will not be to you since it will destroy your trinity.

You can call a troop to the name of its commander and that is what happen in this revelation.

That you say No, does not change the facts.

From the passage we all know who the commander of yahweh's army is.

Your denial is for you alone and does not change anything from the truth.

Next you will present torbit. Lol.

truthislight:

who is doing the twisting hear?

Can you show from the bible were arrangel michael worship Jesus?

You misunderstand Jude completely and the message of respect and not to speak abusively of authority.

We should quote the bible for our stand.

My point is that archangel is a title for the leader of the angel and the leader of the angel is an only beggoten son of yahweh.

All amgels are also sons of yahweh = job 38:7

but Jesus is unique being the the "only" entity that yahweh personall created by himself while Jesus did the creation of all other things including the angels = col. 1:16,17

From ur post God created only arch angel Michael, then angel Michael created angel Gabriel and other angels. Angel Michael now created evry other things.

From your 'reasoning of the scriptures' God did not create anything but only angel Michael. Then angel Michael created the heaven and the earth, angel Michael created the other angels, created animals, created human beings. Just tell me if im makin sense here or not because within u, u should knw that the elders that made this 'research' are pure liars and u dare not question dem or else u wil be disfellowship. Just accept evrythin hook, line and sinker. It doesnt matter if they change the doctrine tomorrow and say Jesus is no more angel Michael. The light just got brighter.

Look my dear read the first chapter of hebrews and dat should be clear enough and stop being incessantly confused. Is the angel mchael in the book of daniel differnt frm the one in Jude. Even arcg angel Michael was among the angels dat worship the son. Read hebrew again my guy and stop depending on some lies from watchtower magazines.

chukwudi44:

Whether he is Jesus or not that man has nothing to link him with micheal.No where in the bible is micheal described as captain of the Lord's army.

Do yourself a favour and do away with the teachings of ellen G white.

You denied Joshua's account, you denied Rev 12 account,you denied Daniel 10:12-13, you denied 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 acc and Jude etc..
But that doesn't mean the scripture is wrong or say one thing but mean another thing.

I will not stress you anymore on these scripture as you have hiden your heart to accept the truth.
But i will like to show you more scriptures that continues... to reveal this two identity.

Scripture interprets Scriptures. If God's word interprets itself, we are nothing to say otherwise.
Now lets take a look back to Exodus, God promised to send an Angel to go before the Israelites.

(Exodus 23:20-21) Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for "My name is in Him".

Scripture told us that God's Angel has God's name, becaus God's name is in Him.

Now lets see who Paul told us this Angel is:
(1 Corinthians 10:1-4) Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, "and that Rock was Christ".

"That Rock was Christ". who is the Christ tht Paul is talking about? return bk to exodus, because i ve always thought that the angel led them. He didn't follow the campe of Israel, did He bro @chukwudi44?

(Exodus 14:19-24.) And the Angel of God, who went before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud went from before them and stood behind them. So it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel. Thus it was a cloud and darkness to the one, and it gave light by night to the other, so that the one did not come near the other all that night. Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea into dry land, and the waters were divided. So the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea on the dry ground, and the waters were a wall to them on their right hand and on their left. And the Egyptians pursued and went after them into the midst of the sea, all PharaohÕs horses, his chariots, and his horsemen. Now it came to pass, in the morning watch, that the LORD looked down upon the army of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and cloud, and He troubled the army of the Egyptians.

Paul in 1Corin 10 is specifically speaking of the crosing of the red sea nd of that cloud where God was.
So Paul identifies Him as Jesus. Now in Exodus, we see that it is the "Angel of God" who is in the cloud
that went behind to go between the camp of Israelites and the Egyptians.

So Paul is plainly sayin' that the "Angel of God is Jesus". When the LORD looks down and causes trouble for the Egyptians, we now know that it was Jesus who did these things because He has "God's name in Him"...(Exodus 23:20-21)

Isaiah added to this thought by saying tht the "Angel of His Presence" has saved, redeemed, and carried Israel all throughout the days of old. Isaiah says that this "angel became their Savior"!

(Isaiah 63:7-9) I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD And the praises of the LORD, According to all that the LORD has bestowed on us, And the great goodness toward the house of Israel, Which He has bestowed on them according to His mercies, According to the multitude of His lovingkindnesses. For He said, "Surely they are My people, Children who will not lie." (So He became their Savior).
In all their affliction He was afflicted, And "the Angel of His Presence" saved them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them; And He bore them and carried them All the days of old.

So the "angel" that has The "Father's name in Him", who is also called "the Angel of His Presence" has always been the "Savior of Israel" all through the days of old. He has saved, redeemed, and carried them. No wonder Paul idengifies Him as being Christ.

These things about the Angel of God help to confirm that it has always been Jesus all along who has led God's people, even through all the days of old. (Frosbel should contradict this if He can .

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18
It has been Jesus all along who has lead God's peple! and He has been identified as the "Angel of God" and the "Angel of His Presence".
Did someone just read that with bro Chukwudi44?


And by the way, if i may ask, who is ellen G white??

sunkoye: Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe God came from heaven to earth, yet they cannot deny someone came down. So they shift the identity of the one who ascended to an arch angel, Michael. Jesus is supposedly Michael because his name means ‘who is like God. "It proves Michael the archangel is no other than the only begotten son of God, now Jesus Christ. The very name Michael means who is like God and indicates Jehovah God is without like or equal." (New Heavens and New Earth pg.30-31). Jesus is actually the incarnation of Michael the Arch angel and resumed the name when he ascended into heaven ( ibid. pg.30 Your will be done on earth pg.316 )

If one investigates church history not even the Arians who started the idea Jesus was a created being with divine qualities believed he was an angel. No one in the church history (at least of any influence, good or bad) has ever presented Jesus as Michael the arch angel.

They believe Jesus is a mighty God and Jehovah is the almighty. That's two Gods, this is not monotheism. Then what of the angel Gabriel that also means mighty like God does this make him Jesus too? Where is Michael now since the resurrection has not occurred and Michael fights before it in Dan.12. Yet he is Jesus. Whose name is above all names forever. Did the angel Michael incarnate to die for our sins?

What about Micah whose name means who is like Jehovah. The names don’t give a parallel but beg a question. Who is like God? Obviously no one. If Jesus is Michael than who are the other angels? Are they God too. Since he is only one of the chief princes. Doesn’t this destroy being the only begotten son since, he the son before he incarnated?

The Jehovah witnesses say "Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael is applied to God’s son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ." (Aid to bible understanding)

"Michael the Archangel, the first creation of Jehovah, before He came to earth and returned to the identity of Michael after his resurrection." (Aid To Bible Understanding, p. 1152).

The Watchtower teaches that Jehovah, the Father only created only one thing directly, the Logos, or Jesus. It was Jesus according to the Watchtower who created "all other things" (Colossians 1:16 NWT; Insight, Vol. 1, p. 527).

So then who is the creator of all? JESUS. But according to them He's not God.

We find the Bible contradicts the Watchtower interpretation in Isa.44:24 "I am the Lord who makes all things…""who has made the earth, and has created even man upon it...and who stretched out the heavens..."Jehovah. Is. 45:12. Do you see the predicament they are in?

I am the same One. I am the first. Moreover, I am the last. Moreover, my own hand laid the foundation of the earth and my own right hand extended out the heavens Is. 48:12,13

What ever happened to in the Beginning God created the heavens and the earth? It should read in the beginning Michael the Arch angel created the earth!

"In the Greek Bible text the Word is Logos. Hence he may be called the `Word or Logos'. Being a mighty one and holding this high official capacity as Logos and being before all other creatures, he was a God, but not the Almighty God, who is Jehovah," (1952 Revised ed., p. 33).

"in due time God exalted Jesus to the highest position a creature could be given." (Awake 9/22/1959, p. 7)

"Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshipped, and properly so. While he was not the God, Jehovah, he was a God." (Watchtower 7/15/1898, p. 2337)

Thus Jesus, a creature, is defined by the Jehovah's Witnesses as a God. the question arises, is Jesus a true God or a false God? Since we have two Gods in Jn.1:1.

"But that does not mean that Jehovah never caused to exist anyone who is properly referred to as a god," (Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985 ed., p. 413).

"Michael the Archangel is no other than the only begotten son of God, now Jesus Christ. That Jehovah directly created only one thing, Michael the arch angel and that Michael created all other things." (United in Worship p.29)

Rev.4:11 "you are worthy O Lord to receive glory honor and power, for you created all things and by your will they exist and were created". Are Jehovah's Witnesses saying this is Jesus?

there predicament is to explain away their own writings."He, being the Creator, existed before any other gods, and all false gods will be wiped out so that there will be none existing after him," (Aid to Bible Understanding, pp. 665-666; emphasis mine). Exactly so if he is the true God that makes him… "The one and only true God is Jehovah."(WT 3/1/1959, p. 150)

Jeremiah who was a reliable prophet (not like the WT) says in Jer.10:11 "The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth..." Doesn’t this make Jesus Jehovah ? Remember they have said the only true God is Jehovah! Then what are they to do with Jesus who is called creator and "a god", is he to be eliminated with all the rest. That's a problem if you have two Gods even if one is almighty and the other mighty.What of the Father? If he did not make the heavens and the earth he too will perish !

Isaiah 43:10: "No God was formed before me, nor will be after me. I, I am Jehovah, and there is no other Savior but me." Isn’t Jesus the savior? God knows of no other Gods yet Jesus is another God.

Isaiah 44:6: "I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."

Isaiah 45:5, 6: "I am Jehovah and there is no other, there is no other God except me. (this means mighty also) Though you do not know me, I have armed you so that it may be known from east to west that there is no one except me. I am Jehovah and there is no other."

Isaiah 46:9: "for I am God and there is no other."No God spelled with a big G or little g. Any man or spirit being that is called "god" cannot be the true Deity. All others called "god" are false deity.

For John to have called Jesus "a god" in John 1:1 and meant him to be another true God, a mighty God alongside the almighty would go against everything in the monotheistic teaching of Judaism. The same goes for Thomas calling Jesus "my God" in John 20:28. ln their own publication… Thomas said to him: 'My Lord and my God!'-John 20:28" (Greek Interlinear reading, literally: "The Lord of me and the God of me!" Their own Greek Interlinear shows ho theos. (INTERLINEAR 1985, p. 513)

This is polytheism, more than one god and worse yet they have an angel exalted as "a god." It does not matter if they worship him or not , they call him a god and creator. Jeremiah a reliable prophet said in chpt.10 v.11 "the Gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish…" Then what are they to do with Jesus who is called creator and "a god", is he to be eliminated with all the rest. That's the problem when you have two gods even if one is almighty and the other mighty. What of the Father? According to them he only created one thing, Jesus the angel. If he did not make the heavens and the earth he too will perish! So if Jesus who is called "a god" did not create it all, he goes the away with the rest of the false gods. This isn’t my opinion but Gods!

If Jesus had been claiming to be only "a god" as J.W.'s teach, then He would not have been charged with "blasphemy" as in Jn 10:30 when they tried to stone Him for He made himself to be equal to God. Not another God, but claiming to be united with the one God, as the Greek language bears this saying "we are one"- in nature.

Yet the whole church believed him to be God. in Mt.16:16 He says, "I will build MY church" not Jehovah's.

Acts 20:28, Paul tells the elders, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of GOD, which HE PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD." Whose church is the Jehovah Witnesses? If not Jesus then they were not purchased with his blood and are not Christians, there is only one church body, it is his. ( they readily admit only 144,000 are purchased with the blood of this angel named Jesus.)

"There is Scriptural evidence for concluding that Michael was the name of Jesus Christ before he left heaven and after his return." (WT 5/15/1969, p. 307)

…"Michael the great prince is none other than Jesus Christ himself Dan.12:1" (WT 12/15/1984 p29)

Col.2:9-10 "The fullness of deity dwells bodily in Christ, the Colossians had previously come to a fullness of life in Him who is the head of all rule and authority. "Head" means supreme "authority," "Principality and powers" is a reference to the highest rankings of angelic beings he Christ being over them all. Which means he is not in the same rank or species as an angel. Neither could he be the archangel which would still have him be in the order of a created being.

Heb.1:4 "having become so much better than the angels." How by nature? NO, by exaltation at the resurrection- returning to his former position. How can he be better than angels if he is an angel? He already was better in nature before his incarnation as the very one who created all the angels. (Col.1:14-17, Jn.1:3).

Heb.1:5 "For to which of the angels did he ever say "you are my Son today I have begotten you" The answer is none of them! Here the writer is proclaiming the Son as superior to angels. Angels who are the greatest of Gods creation and the Son is better vs.4 How? Because he as the Son is of the same nature as his Father.

Heb.1:6 The Father tells all the angels to worship the son. According to J.W’s they are not worshipping him but only giving obeisance. If this is true than the Father only gets obeisance also, since it is the very same word used to worship the Father.

Heb. 1:8 God the Father says to the Son "your throne O’ God is forever and ever." J.W’s change this to God is your throne. So instead of having the son God they now made an inanimate object God. The lengths they go to prove their false view.

V.10 the Father still speaking to the Son "and you, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the Earth and the heavens are the work of your hands..." The Father calls the Son Jehovah and says he was present as the architect of both heaven and earth.

They agree that he created all things but they disagree with God who calls the son Jehovah!

In Jn.5:31 Jesus is making a point to the religious leaders that the father has sent him and he is the perfect example of the fathers nature. In v.39 he states "you search the Scripture for in them you think you have eternal life, and these are they which testify of me, In Lk.24 :25-27 after the resurrection he expounds of all that is in the scriptures from Moses through the prophets that are written of him. "Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Are we to believe that the whole of the bible is about the Arch-angel Michael and not of God! According to the Witnesses this would have to be the conclusion. Yet Jesus said the scriptures testify of him!

This is not about what a church or denomination believes, The bible is so plain, the JW may be right or wrong, why not take you time to used Old testament to find out what the New testament means? Do we know God has a way of doing things? Wasn't Jesus name change in the scripture? I will try to bring out scripture both old and new on this. Its not very easy to take time to find OT and match it with the NT, but if one can creat the time, He/she can sure find the truth. God did not limit or belittle Christ by making him come to earth as human, likewise, He could also Use His most cherised Angel to do things, This may be a unique being to Him. Let the scripture interprets that to us.

truthislight:

she has made nothing up but rather stated the truth.

you liar twisting the bible have the mouth to tell someone to stop making things up

You should better change you ways and drop this lying you carry you and your mother RCC.

I posted both OLD AND NEW testament in referring to same thing, He refuses to accept them for pride or shame or whatever i do not know.
Have the scripture not been interpreting scriptures since in this thread? I will bring out more proof, it may not be useful for mr A or B
While mr Y or W will find it useful. All thesame, we know THAT Jesus is the messaih, the one that Has been protecting Israel even before He was born to earth.

truthislight:

you dont need to let opinionated person with scriptural evidence to blind you to the evidence for.

The are just hear saying "Jesus is not" without showing why he is not.

So, a wise person weighs the evidence and draws his conclussion.

Aye you are correct bro, dont mind me, was just trolling. But the thread is taking interesting twists.

chukwudi44:

You idiotic monkey why don't you quote that passage and show me where he was described as an angel.

Haba, Christ will not smile at this, It hasn't come this this extend na olalalalala!!

chukwudi44:

So you know yet you refer to him as an angel na waoo.christ don suffer

Do more study of the Bible, no be to pick one verse and then conclude.

Did Christ told you he don suffer?

truthislight:

that a king have many children that are prince and princeses does that mean that all the prince are equal? No.

The most senior one will rule should the king dies.

Yahweh have cherubs and saraph as high ranking princes, but the greatest of them all is Jesus christ and he and the arch angel does exactly the same things in the bible.

So why duplicate the arch angels?

Are you saying that Jesus christ assignment from Yahweh after his faithfullness is not unique? That all other high ranking angels that never suffered what Jesus suffered will also have same privilages?

Did you see how shallow your statement and argument are?

Our lord assigment are spercial from yahweh and this are things that he has been actively participating in even befor he came to earth and he has enhance prophersies to this effect, and after he has been reveal step into this mighty role assigne to him.

All other name in heaven are to be subject to him except yahweh.

He was given more elevation after his resurrection after waiting in the right hand of his father.

Which other creature has receive such elevation that they will shear with him in this glory?

But you will tell me that this are assignment that other angels have been promised already, so what makes his assignment unique?

The promise of what angel michael will do were for the same person = Jesus.

I did not duplicate any.The bible did.and no where in the bible is micheal called the chief prince but rather "one of the chief princes" he was never placed above any of the other chief princes or arch angels.micheal had peers in heaven.That was never same with Jesus

plappville:

Do more study of the Bible, no be to pick one verse and then conclude.

Did Christ told you he don suffer?

I have done in heb 1:4-14 and found that Jesus is superior to angels.The last time I checked micheal was an angel.

truthislight:

we all know that a commander is one that the gives oders/instructions/lead others.

Jesus lead his angels at Rev. 12 and Rev. 1:11-18 to first battle satan in heaven and letter destroy the wicked.

A commander comes with his troop and this too have angels that follow him and the referenc is to the commander of the troop like in every rational reference to military troop the reference is to the commander but to you no, it will not be to you since it will destroy your trinity.

You can call a troop to the name of its commander and that is what happen in this revelation.

That you say No, does not change the facts.

From the passage we all know who the commander of yahweh's army is.

Your denial is for you alone and does not change anything from the truth.

Next you will present torbit. Lol.

truthislight:

we all know that a commander is one that the gives oders/instructions/lead others.

Jesus lead his angels at Rev. 12 and Rev. 1:11-18 to first battle satan in heaven and letter destroy the wicked.

A commander comes with his troop and this too have angels that follow him and the referenc is to the commander of the troop like in every rational reference to military troop the reference is to the commander but to you no, it will not be to you since it will destroy your trinity.

You can call a troop to the name of its commander and that is what happen in this revelation.

That you say No, does not change the facts.

From the passage we all know who the commander of yahweh's army is.

Your denial is for you alone and does not change anything from the truth.

Next you will present torbit. Lol.

You are yet to show me where micheal was described as commander of all angels.Rev 12:7 did not name micheal commander of all angels but rather said "micheal and his angels"what about the other chief princes or arch angels you think they don't also have their own angels ?you guys should stop speculating.Micheal was never named commanderof all angelic host.

truthislight:

as though all angels are not sons of yaweh.

The point about that Hebrew is that there is an outstanding of the sons of yahweh, the foremost of them all.

Wrong !!

The phrase 'To which of his angels' implies ALL angels not some angels.

This simple verse destroys any attempt to falsely suggest that Jesus was an angel.

truthislight:

and what have you presented to warrant you to say that you "wount let him spraed lies"?

You are the one exposing your leck of debt in this topic since you only jump in and shout without evidence.

Maybe you want to to start a new movement for yourself.

You are following the teachings of JW, I am not. I am free from the interpretations of churches or organisations.

Jesus is not an angel. For one to come to this most erroneous conclusion , the evidence must be based , not on facts but inferences and assumptions.

plappville:

Wasn't Jesus name change in the scripture? I will try to bring out scripture both old and new on this. Its not very easy to take time to find OT and match it with the NT, but if one can creat the time, He/she can sure find the truth. God did not limit or belittle Christ by making him come to earth as human, likewise, He could also Use His most cherised Angel to do things, This may be a unique being to Him. Let the scripture interprets that to us.

My sister you are going into error here, what do you mean by the underlined ?

Jesus was born the Son of GOD as a MAN , how difficult is this for you to grasp ?

true2god: From ur post God created only arch angel Michael, then angel Michael created angel Gabriel and other angels. Angel Michael now created evry other things.

From your 'reasoning of the scriptures' God did not create anything but only angel Michael. Then angel Michael created the heaven and the earth, angel Michael created the other angels, created animals, created human beings. Just tell me if im makin sense here or not because within u, u should knw that the elders that made this 'research' are pure liars and u dare not question dem or else u wil be disfellowship. Just accept evrythin hook, line and sinker. It doesnt matter if they change the doctrine tomorrow and say Jesus is no more angel Michael. The light just got brighter.

Look my dear read the first chapter of hebrews and dat should be clear enough and stop being incessantly confused. Is the angel mchael in the book of daniel differnt frm the one in Jude. Even arcg angel Michael was among the angels dat worship the son. Read hebrew again my guy and stop depending on some lies from watchtower magazines.

by prefering to use angel michael instead of Jesus are you looking for symparthy?

You need to read col. 1:16.

Whose power did Jesus use in doing the creating of things? = Yahweh.

Who created Jesus? = Yahweh.

Who then is the creator all things including Jesus that makes use of the power of Yahweh? = Yahweh.

The confusion is yours and not mine.

The reason for your confusion is the trinity.

truthislight:

look at this liar!

Infact for you attempt to twist the portion of the bible that said "one of the foremost princes" to say "one of the archangels" i will call you a "lying fraud"!

This is an example of the deceit of the RCC that operate with lies.

You lie about the bible you lie about every thing.

This is how you claim th "RCC wrote the bible"

i pity your low life.

what does "one of the foremost princes mean"? If michael is "one of the foremost princes" that means there are others like him.
I see no decit!

truthislight:

rubbish!

Madness.

That is how satan has used your type to lead people astray with contradictry false scriptures and you claiming the bible that does not support your doctrines to be a product of rcc so that you can rubbish it.

Just imagine what you just shaelessly posted up there!

You cannot rely on the bible any longer but to resort to contradictery books, well, it is your life, do what you want with it, and also deceive those that will not stick to the bible.

But you cannot change/hide the truth forever, that is how you kill/burn people alive in the middle ages for saying the truth.

hahaha, those who compiled the xtian bible say tobit is part of it, if it isnt in ur bible dat means ur bible is not complete, or maybe u are nt a xtian dat is y u dont have some of d books of d xtian bible

truthislight:

liar like you, that place was talking about prices.

Prince of persia, prince of greece all being of the devil hindring God's angel.

But also made refernce to michael as one of the formost princes of Yahweh and not one of the arch angels.

Yes, that is true, since Yahweh also have the powerful cherubs that are befor him, but Jesus/michael is an only beggoten son.

You dirty crook liar leading people to satan the father of the lie, you most be one of his main sons with your pope as his first son.

You are a digrace to God for claiming to be a christianbut does the will of satan.

u claim to be a xtian yet u cant talk like one, a disgrace, let ur word b season with salt, try and present whatever u tink d truth is with kindness.

chukwudi44:

You are a very big fool and idiotic liar!! Daniel 10:13 was written in aramaic and not hebrew nor greek and that particular verse is translated arch chief angel,arch angel or chief prince depending on the bible translation.Even if I were to to deal with prince instead of angel,the phrase "one of the chief princes" clearly indicates micheal had peers who who occuppied the same strata of authourity with him.That is obviously not the case with Jesus who was higher than every created thing.

let ur words b season with salt, do not argue like a pagan, "very big fool and idoitic liar" that is a disgrace!

chukwudi44:

You are yet to show me where micheal was described as commander of all angels.Rev 12:7 did not name micheal commander of all angels but rather said "micheal and his angels"what about the other chief princes or arch angels you think they don't also have their own angels ?you guys should stop speculating.Micheal was never named commanderof all angelic host.

am through with you on this thread since your interest is to stick to the lies that rcc have fed "us" all along.

You can stick with it it is a free world and i will stick to what i see from the bible.

Peace.

truthislight:

so you are telling us that Jesus will go and borrow an arch angels voice to be able to raise the dead at the end?

Was it a borrowed arch angels voice that Jesus used in raising up Lazarus?

No, it is His(Jesus)voice that raise Lazarus and it is him that has the arch angels voice it his him that has the commanders voice, it is his voice that the dead will hear and rise at the end.

Are you saying that an arch angels voice has more authority than that of our lord Jesus christ? Insult!

An only beggoten son, a prince needs to borrow to do the will of the king.

An arch angels voice is not more powerful than that of christ but rather it is him Jesus christ that has the commanding voice like the commanding voice that he had used in raising up lazarus.

Yes, our lord has a commanding voice an arch angels voice to raise the dead, the voice of whom all authority both in heaven and on earth has been given. A commanders voice, he is not borrowing it, but rather, it is his voice.
Peace

hahaha, u are doing battle with the phase "the voice of the archangel", ok ex 19:19 also mentions a voice, does that mean that God has a literal voice? Or did he adopt that voice to speak with moses? Please be consistent!

Ndipe: http://www.truthorfables.com/Is_Michael_Christ.htm

if you dont have anything "original" to add to this thread why not stay out and read from the back ground?

truthislight:

this a very good advice from you,
but dont you think you need this advice in view of the evidences in front of you?

Also, in view of all the lies your rcc have put forward that is blinding you and co?

really? Has it come to dis? Church insults? I thought u could rise above that. Maybe i was mistaken!