@Opening Post2 contd.....

Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

The 'better than' theme is beginning to emerge here. Consider that since the writer mentioned Aaron in comparison to Jesus, he had been sort of bringing up their similarities and building up a room for comparison. Now, he follows with "Now consider how great". the book of Hebrews uses the word 'better' about 12times in comparing Jesus Christ(the New Covenant) to the Old. this is the theme and the line of argument, as it were. See for example
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
So he says Melchizedek must have being a great man because Abram gave him tithes. There's this scripture that says give to God what is God's. you don't give what is God's to man or to an animal. Infact, Jesus said not to cast pearls before swine, or give the children's bread to dogs. Alms belong to man, to beggars perhaps. Tithe and offering belongs to God. God told some people in Malachi who did not give their tithes that they had robbed Him. they had robbed God, not the priests, not the Levites, because tithes and offering belongs to God. you don't give worship to man or prayer to man, they belong to God. I've heard people erroneously quote "whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you have done to me". if you worship Image123, you are in idolatry, you are not doing it to God, sorry. If you pray to Peter the saint, it is wrong. You can't give God's tithe to the poor, or to a friend in need. God's tithe is for God. You can give another tenth, or even 100% for any purpose, you can even borrow and perhaps delay or postpone to give God's tithe so as to sort out a need or emergency, if your conscience allows you. but to say, i'm giving my tithe to the beggar on the highway, that's just deceiving one's self at best. Abraham didn't give his tithes to the King of Sodom, or to Lot or to any of the captives he could have changed their lives or fortunes with. He didn't even give it to the men who he wanted to have their portion.
Gen 14:24 Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.
It says to consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. We should consider, and learn from Abraham. Wisdom says My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. Abraham gave his tithes to a great man, king of righteousness, priest of the most high God. And what did he give, it was the tenth of the spoils. Again, note that Abraham did not take Lot's property or the King of Sodom's goods. So, what did he take and tithe from? Of the spoils.

spoils, plural noun
1. property seized by victor: valuables or property seized by the victor in a conflict
2. something gained through effort: something valuable or desirable gained through effort, opportunism, or other means

Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
These were the goods of the about four kings defeated and their armies, or maybe kingdoms.

Gen 14:17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.

Gen 14:9 With Chedorlaomer the king of Elam, and with Tidal king of nations, and Amraphel king of Shinar, and Arioch king of Ellasar; four kings with five.

You may not still readily appreciate the volume of the spoils until you consider that these four Kings were ruling over the more than 5nations/kingdoms before this time and for more than 12years. You may begin to estimate when you consider how Israel was often spoiled and emptied by Kings like Nebuchadnezzar, the Syrians, the Asyrians, the Philistines and co, anytime they sinned against God and were being punished thus. The point is that it wa massive. Recall, he time of Elisha, when the spoils gotten from one nation Syria was enough to feed a nation in famine and cause a massive change in prices of goods? See below;
2Ki 7:1 Then Elisha said, Hear ye the word of the LORD; Thus saith the LORD, Tomorrow about this time shall a measure of fine flour be sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, in the gate of Samaria.
2Ki 7:8 And when these lepers came to the uttermost part of the camp, they went into one tent, and did eat and drink, and carried thence silver, and gold, and raiment, and went and hid it; and came again, and entered into another tent, and carried thence also, and went and hid it.
2Ki 7:15 And they went after them unto Jordan: and, lo, all the way was full of garments and vessels, which the Syrians had cast away in their haste. And the messengers returned, and told the king.
2Ki 7:16 And the people went out, and spoiled the tents of the Syrians. So a measure of fine flour was sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, according to the word of the LORD.

That is the picture of spoils of war from one country. Also recall how Israel spoiled the Egyptians(one nation) when they left them for Canaan? It was of the spoil that they contributed in the wilderness until Moses had a problem called "too much". Now, consider the spoils from four major kingdoms in the time of Abraham. it is of this that Abraham gave a tenth to the King and Priest Melchizedec.
........................i should continue later, read this meanwhile though.

Bidam: Do i sense a tweak of jealous hatred against pastors here? Even if we dash our pastors salary e dey pain u neh? SMH! Never wanted to comment anyway but the bitter bile coming out of ur mouth just becos we minister carnal needs to our pastors who feed us spiritual needs is nauseating to say the least...woe is me if i minister not to my pastor..oya come make anoda comment here..mr.lawgiver and judge.

NL Una no go finish person with laughter

RanchOwner: The heart of the book of Hebrews is the comparison between the Mosaic covenant and the New covenant in Christ. The New covenant in Christ is much "better," "superior," "more excellent," "more valuable," "higher rank", than that of the Mosaic covenant, which spells out 'death' as a consequence for not following it to the letter.

One thing that must be made clear is that Christians are not mandated to tithe, that practice has long gone, discarded, stopped after Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law.

I believe the NT guidelines for regular giving (if there are any) are found in 2 Corinthians 8 and 9, which go far beyond tithing.

The New Testament does not once introduce tithing into the grace of giving. Tithes are mentioned only three times in the New Testament:
(1) in censoring the Pharisees for neglect of justice, mercy, and faith while giving meticulous care to the tithing of even garden produce (Matt. 23:23; Luke 11:42)
(2) in the exposure of the proud Pharisee who 'prayed to himself,' boasting that he fasted twice each week and tithed all his possessions (Luke 18:12)
(3) in arguing for the superiority of Melchizedek, and hence of Christ, to Levi (Heb. 7:6-9).

It is clear that Jesus approved tithing as a part of the Temple system, just as in principle and practice he supported the general practices of the Temple and the synagogues. But there is no indication that he imposed any part of the Temple cultus on his followers.
Tithes were chiefly produce, formerly eaten at the sanctuary by the one tithing and later eaten by the priests. Tithing as set forth in the Old Testament could be carried out only in a religious system built around a system of animal sacrifice.

Many Christians find the tithe to be a fair and workable plan for giving. So long as it is not made to be a coercive or legalistic system, it may prove to be a happy plan. However, one may not validly claim that tithing is taught in the New Testament. It is recognized as proper for Jewish observance (Matt. 23:23; Luke 11:42), but it is not imposed upon Christians. In fact, it is now impossible for Jews or Christians to tithe in the Old Testament sense. Tithing today only faintly resembles the ancient ritual practice belonging to the sacrificial system of the Jews.

While much may be said for adopting the tithe voluntarily as a standard for one's giving without rigidly imposing it upon others as a Christian requirement, it is clear in adopting such a practice that one is not carrying on the Old Testament practice. At most one is doing something only remotely analogous to the tithing practice of the Old Testament, which was a tax to support the Temple and the priestly system, a social and religious system which no longer exists. Tithes were obligatory in Judaism as a tax until the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D, but they are not thus binding upon Christians. Even the Jews have stopped the legalistic system of tithing, why, because after the destruction of the temple in 70A.D, all the Levitical records were destroyed, making it impossible for them to continue the practice. We Christians have got a better covenant (called: Grace) in the order of our Lord Jesus Christ, who for once and for all, gave His life on the cross of calvary. What more do we want.

This is not to discredit tithing, but it is to clarify its relationship to the New Testament. It is to deny that the New Testament supports the coerciveness, legalism, profit motive, and the bargaining which so often characterise the tithing appeals today. As a voluntary system, tithing offers much; but it must be redeemed by grace if it is to be Christian. To plead that 'it works' is only to adopt the pragmatic tests of the world. Much 'works' that is not Christian. Tithing, if it is to be congenial to New Testament theology, must be rooted in the grace and love of God.

In conlcusion, Christians should give because we are blessed and that we love God, not by giving grudgingly because we anticipate we would be cursed if we didn't adhere. Our God surely loves a generous giver.

This made alot of sense!

Goshen360:

I guess this will also make a perfect instruction, correction unto righteousness since it's also part of the "All Scriptures"......take a look:

22 You shall surely tithe all the yield of your seed produced by your field each year.

23 And you shall eat before the Lord your God in the place in which He will cause His Name [and Presence] to dwell the tithe (tenth) of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstlings of your herd and your flock, that you may learn [reverently] to fear the Lord your God always.

24 And if the distance is too long for you to carry your tithe, or the place where the Lord your God chooses to set His Name [and Presence] is too far away for you, when the Lord your God has blessed you,

25 Then you shall turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and shall go to the place [of worship] which the Lord your God has chosen.

26 And you may spend that money for whatever your appetite craves, for oxen, or sheep, or new wine or strong[er] drink, or whatever you desire; and you shall eat there before the Lord your God and you shall rejoice, you and your household.

27 And you shall not forsake or neglect the Levite [God’s minister] in your towns, for he has been given no share or inheritance with you.

28 At the end of every three years you shall bring forth all the tithe of your increase the same year and lay it up within your towns.

29 And the Levite [because he has no part or inheritance with you] and the stranger or temporary resident, and the fatherless and the widow who are in your towns shall come and eat and be satisfied, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands that you do. - Deuteronomy 14, Amplified Bible (AMP)

You know this is also an instruction unto righteousness.........

This cannot be accepted, How u want make the Pastors buy jets and big big Jeeps?

truthislight:




why are you defining income instead of defining harvest?

You are supposed to define "harvest" = income.

You are a afraud that wants to gain riches through the gospel.

This by exploiting others.

Your love for God can not take your making sacrifices but you must get back riches other wise no. And this through tith.

The apostles died for christ dont forget.

Greed.
I hope that you live forever with your exploit.

Another funny post

@ Image123,

Learning one or two more things from your expository commentary o. Waiting till you finish then we can address some points from your article. Not to distract you for now, keep them coming bro.

Image123:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

While I'm waiting for your response to my previous post, I'll ask this question as well - the above verse was even referenced in the OT Psalm 40:6: Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Yet, no one condemned burnt offerings in the OT and God continued to accept burnt offerings, even from David's (the writer of the psalm above) own son.

There is no bible verse that says burnt offerings have been abolished either.

I knew you would expose your true thinking sooner or later:

Image123:
There's this scripture that says give to God what is God's. you don't give what is God's to man or to an animal. Infact, Jesus said not to cast pearls before swine, or give the children's bread to dogs. Alms belong to man, to beggars perhaps. Tithe and offering belongs to God.

Let's start from here - what bible verse tells us 'tithe and offering belongs to God'?

God told some people in Malachi who did not give their tithes that they had robbed Him. they had robbed God, not the priests, not the Levites, because tithes and offering belongs to God.

So now it is 'some people'? Not the Jews who God gave specific instructions to tithe under the law, but just 'some' random people?

I've heard people erroneously quote "whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you have done to me". if you worship Image123, you are in idolatry, you are not doing it to God, sorry. If you pray to Peter the saint, it is wrong. You can't give God's tithe to the poor, or to a friend in need. God's tithe is for God. You can give another tenth, or even 100% for any purpose, you can even borrow and perhaps delay or postpone to give God's tithe so as to sort out a need or emergency, if your conscience allows you. but to say, i'm giving my tithe to the beggar on the highway, that's just deceiving one's self at best.

Again, please provide the bible scripture where 'God's tithe is for God' was defined or outlined and specifically, how this applies to Christians. Now let's understand the implication of this 'God's tithe is for God' - if you don't give 'God's tithe' to God, then you are robbing him, which means that ANYONE (or let's call them 'non-tithers') not doing so is committing a sin.

Is this what you are saying?

That is the picture of spoils of war from one country. Also recall how Israel spoiled the Egyptians(one nation) when they left them for Canaan? It was of the spoil that they contributed in the wilderness until Moses had a problem called "too much". Now, consider the spoils from four major kingdoms in the time of Abraham. it is of this that Abraham gave a tenth to the King and Priest Melchizedec.
........................i should continue later, read this meanwhile though.

Excellent exposition on spoils of war.

If, as you claim, we should learn from the 'wisdom' of Abraham, why didn't Abraham give a tithe of his regular 'income' from his flocks and sheep and only the spoils? Or was Abraham's 'income' only spoils? What is the equivalent of 'spoils' for today's Christian?

Jesus Christ never condemned tithes and offerings.... Tithe and offerings are essential, in 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, Every first day of the week when Christians came together, offerings are made based on one's earnings for the week... The story of Ananias and Sapphira also gives one an insight about offering in the new testament. though the Apostles didnt give strict instructions concerning tithe but they supported the act of giving a wholesome amount of money as offering to support the Churh and other religious activities.
i believe one should give tithes and offerings diligently not just for doing sake and not just because it helps the material growth of the Church (branches, support of missionaries, salaries to pastors, helping of the needy and so on), but because God loves a cheerful giver and Jesus approves the act of tithing.
And on the issue of one being free from Mosiac laws why do Christians still circumcize their male kid?

eeeyah no time oh. I'll be back soon by God's grace.

vickyO:
And on the issue of one being free from Mosiac laws why do Christians still circumcize their male kid?

Is it something all Christians do or have you inspected all male children of Christians?

vickyO:
And on the issue of one being free from Mosiac laws why do Christians still circumcize their male kid?

New Living Translation (©2007)
Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous--even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. - Romans 4:11

New Living Translation (©2007)
It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation. - Galatians 6:15

vickyO:

though the Apostles didnt give strict instructions concerning tithe but they supported the act of giving a wholesome amount of money as offering to support the Churh and other religious activities.

Since you believed the Apostles didn't give STRICT instructions on tithe, then follow the Apostolic teaching because they already first followed Christ. That Christ never condemned tithe and offerings.....that was stilling according to the law. We have argued that so much that I cannot over emphasis on it. The is the reason the Apostles didn't give strict teaching on tithe - because it wasn't the Apostles that were tithing what you said Christ didn't condemn, it was the scribes and pharisees; not the disciples.

@ Image123,

I can see debosky is already questioning you from your expository commentary. I hope you have time soon so I can start my own questioning and hopefully other will also have some questions for you as well.

That Christ never condemned tithe and offerings.....that was stilling according to the law. We have argued that so much that I cannot over emphasis on it. The is the reason the Apostles didn't give strict teaching on tithe - because it wasn't the Apostles that were tithing what you said Christ didn't condemn, it was the scribes and pharisees; not the disciples. [/quote]
i dont get this part.

vickyO: Jesus Christ never condemned tithes and offerings.... Tithe and offerings are essential, in 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, Every first day of the week when Christians came together, offerings are made based on one's earnings for the week... The story of Ananias and Sapphira also gives one an insight about offering in the new testament. though the Apostles didnt give strict instructions concerning tithe but they supported the act of giving a wholesome amount of money as offering to support the Churh and other religious activities.
i believe one should give tithes and offerings diligently not just for doing sake and not just because it helps the material growth of the Church (branches, support of missionaries, salaries to pastors, helping of the needy and so on), but because God loves a cheerful giver and Jesus approves the act of tithing.
And on the issue of one being free from Mosiac laws why do Christians still circumcize their male kid?

Please study your bible again, it will help you have a better understanding.

Image123:
This is no point. There is possibility of backsliding also in the new covenant/testament.

Oh! you do agree there is a new covenant abi? So what's this talk about Christians adhering to the law?

Image123:
This is no point. There is possibility of backsliding also in the new covenant/testament. There are several warnings by the apostles, refering us to past OT backskslidings telling us to beware. That one does something for God out of love doesn't rule out possibilities of backsliding.

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

My post was not to compare backsliding in OT and for those being led by the spirit. You told us that the goal of the law is love and this is achieve by adherence to the law. My illustration was to show that Jews could not love by adherence to the law, simple.

Image123:
Did the Bible only mention tithe in Lev. 27? When would you start to read cumulatively instead of segregationally?

Lev. 27 is the basis/foundation for the Israelite tithing practice. Without Lev 27, The Israelite would not have tithed.

Image123:
'Yield' is the same thing as 'income' or 'harvest'. i brought up the three so you can have a cumulative picture. Get a thesaurus or a good dictionar instead of disturbing me with frivolous semantics.

I did not ask for what yield is. You said harvest is the same thing as income, all you needed to do was show us where harvest was defined as income. You did not find any, instead you decided to define yield. according to you Harvest=Yield=Income

If i adopt your 'deceitful approach', i can also say Homose.xual is the same thing as Cheerful

Homose.xual:
homosexual (adj.)
1.sexually attracted to members of your own sex
synonyms:
gay, lesbian

Cheerful:
having life or vigor or spirit
synonyms:
alive, animated, blissful, blithe, bright, buoyant, cheery, chuffed, cock-a-hoop, encouraging, gay, genial, glad...

Since there is no obviously no relationship between Homose.xual and Cheerful, i look for what they have in common and define that one abi? so....

Gay:
characterized by liveliness and lightheartedness
synonyms:
brave, braw, bright, brilliant, buoyant, cheerful, cheery, chuffed, cock-a-hoop, convivial, festal, festive, frivolous, frolicsome, genial, glad, gleeful, good-humored, good-humoured, happy, homophile, homose.xual,

source: sensagent dictionary

So as you can see, Homose.xual=Gay=Cheerful Smart abi?

@Opening Post3 contd........
i may not be as elaborate in the rest of this posts on Hebrews7 as prior, but i'll try not to miss the essentials.

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

The verse starts with an important word 'verily'. Verily means truly or indeed. That is, the writer is stating that what is about to be said is true and matter of fact. Verily, the priests have a commandment to take tithes of the people. One thing that can be deduced here is that there is no antagonism or acrimony against the activity talked about i.e the priests receiving tithes. The writer to the Hebrews, and every other apostle including Jesus Christ shoe NO disdain for the law or for its commands. This same Hebrew epistle takes for granted the priesthood.Heb 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
Heb 5:2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
Heb 5:3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
Heb 5:4 And no man taketh this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

He said Aaron was a man of honour, called of God. the writer is not majorly attempting to teach for or against tithing or any form of giving in this reference. It is already taken for granted as the Hebrews were good givers. Most of the early christians seem to be good givers. paul even said of some that he didn't need to teach them giving as they knew it. you don't teach an undergraduate alphabets or addition, it is for granted that he knows it.

1Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
1Th 4:10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;

Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

It was a similar issue with the Hebrews, they were givers.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love, which ye have showed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
in this passage, the Spirit of God encourages the Hebrews and their giving, and enjoins them to follow Abraham. So, the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people. Notice the tenses, it was present, and the writer saw nothing wrong with it. He didn't say, we are in the dispensation after the law, therefore, the sons of Levi, who receive[b]d[/b] the office of the priesthood, ha[b]d[/b] a commandment to take tithes of the people. They took tithes of the people, this is contrary to the statement of some antitithers i've encountered who say that the priests do not collect tithes of the people. This verse says they did. It says the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law. And he adds 'according to the law'. The term 'according to the law' is not a negative term or a smear. It becomes wrong when the action is done for justification. there are instances of believers who did things according to the law even after the death of Jesus.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Act 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
here we see two sets of believers doing things according to the law. It is okay in as much as they didn't base their salvation on the actions. And so, the levites who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
The point been made in this verse and in the following two is that the Levi priests were elevated above their brethren to receive the offerings of God(they were the ones on the Lord's side), and how much more Melchizedek, who received tithes from Abraham. The person who received the tithe or the offering was considered as a representative of God, a person higher/greater than the giver of the offering.

Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Verse 5 and verse 6 are comparing and contrasting as i previously just said. verse 5 is And they(the Levi priests). verse 6 is But He(Melchizedek). they both received tithes. Note the tense used in verse 6, He receiveD tithes. It was a past action, unlike the Levi priests who were still receiving as at the time of writing. He(Melchizedek) received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. He received tithes and blessed. Genesis 14 records that He blessed Abraham, and Abraham gave tithes. There is no tittle of the Word that does not have a reason for why it is there or arranged that way. A point we can pick from this is that God wants to bless His people, whether before tithing or after tithing. Abraham had the promises before he met Melchizedek who blessed him.He was blessed already, and he was also blessed after this encounter. God truly desires to bless us, and uses every opportunity to. When we give, when we pray, when we worship, when we fellowship with other brethren, when we obey God, it is an opportunity and avenue for God to bless us more. A christian is blessed whether he tithes or no, a christian is blessed whether he fasts or not, prays or not, goes to church every sunday or not. But we should not be weary in doing well as there is that extra blessing for doing well. So, Melchizedek received tithes of Abraham,and blessed him.

Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

This is given for verses 5 and 6. The priest blesses the people because the people are the less and the priest the better. Melchizedek is shown as greater than Abraham for blessing him. this is with the mind to show that Melchizedek is greater than Levi the father of Aaron. Thus, Jesus is greater than Aaron and the priesthood, being of the order of Melchizedek.

Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

A lot of heat can be generated over this verse and i don't hope to cause any. But it plain states in the present and continuous tense that men that die RECEIVE tithes. Not received but receive. The writer is not primarily writing to show that tithing is right or wrong,but using it to prove the supremacy of Jesus to Aaron and therefore the Levitical system. he had used other scriptures to state the supremacy of Jesus to angels and to Moses, now to Aaronand the Levitical system. Aaron represents the Levitical priesthood. Aaron's system/order dies(men that die receive), but Christ's priesthood/order doesn't die(it is witnessed that he liveth). So, Melchizedel order or Christ's order of priesthood is greater than Aaron/Levitical order because 1) Abraham gave to Melchi, 2) Abraham was blessed by Melchi, and 3) Melchi's order doesn't die. Then he stamps this position with another point in the next two verses.

Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him.

Watch the tenses again, Levi who (present continuous) receiveth/receive[b]s[/b] tithes, (past)pay[b]ed[/b]/paid tithes in Abraham. See again that there is a line/thread in the chapter saying that Levi was still receiving tithes as at the time of this epistle. The grouse of the apostles was never with the receiving of tithes or of with the keeping of the laws of God. their grouse was with putting justification or salvation on the works of the law. Even Abraham was not justified by the law or by circumcision, or any right works, but by faith. Now, the just shall live by faith. The Aaronic order attempted to justify by the law. But here is the writer showing us a greater than Levi(the gfather of Aaron), because Levi paid tithes in Abraham, and remember, you pay tithes or offer to and through someone greater than you. Without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. The reason Levi paid tithes to melchizedek is because/for he was still inside Abraham when Melchizedek met him.
There is also the sentimental word jangle some antitithes make about paying or giving tithes. There is nothing wrong with giving tithes, neither is anything wrong with paying tithes, they mean the same thing. Whether you give or pay, tithe is tithe. Abraham paid tithes, it says Levi also. Whether you say you pay it or give it, it is recorded as the same act. One verb is not holier or more spiritual than the other. The pharisee also claimed to give tithes.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

There was nothing wrong with the pharisee giving tithes or fasting. What was wrong was when he used it to justify himself. The heart of the matter was JUSTIFICATION, when we think or preach that our actions save us. Many antitithers think people who tithe or believe in tithes are not saved, or are lesser christians and vice versa.

Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house JUSTIFIED rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
The publican demanded justification by mercy, the pharisee demanded justification by works. He was not an adulterer or extortioner. He prayed, he even began by thanking God and all that. But justification is by faith. We should learn not to argue on irrelevancies such as 'give' or 'pay'.

@Image123
As it occurred to you that the levites that were still collecting tithes when the book of hebrews was written were Levites who were still living under the law and practising the Jewish religion. Granted the law had been brought to an end then but most Jews rejected the gospel hence they were still subjecting themselves to the law. So all these 'tenses' game you are playing is just hog wash. The fact remains that there is not one single christian teaching or practise of tithing in the bible.

Image123:
Melchizedek, being a priest, had the pre-requisite/requirements/qualifications to receive the tithes and offerings of God. So also, Christ our High priest is qualified as a priest and a King. He is also of the order of Melchizedek. Nothing stops or disqualifies Christ from receiving tithes if truly Melchizedek was made like unto the Son of God.

You people continue to insult the priesthood of Christ so that you can continue to justify your tithing scheme. The message i get here is if Melchizedek did it, Christ can do it and if Melchizedek did not do it Christ cannot.

Image123:
It was to Melchizedek that Abraham gave a tenth of ALL. ALL of course doesn't refer to the wives of people or to other people's property. it is wrong to give tithes of other people's property. Other people's property is theirs. Abraham didn't take Lot's goods and give tithes, neithe did he take the king of Sodom's goods according to the passage.

..and who told you 'ALL' was not referring to the wives of people and to other people's property? Where is it written that these people/items were excluded from 'ALL'? You are attempting to re-write the scriptures.

Image123:
Yet, it is recorded that he gave tithes of all. tithe is simply a tenth part i.e 10% as seen from Hebrews 7v2. A tenth is 1/10 of a whole.

"Tithe is simply a tenth part"; a tenth part of what? you need to complete that statement otherwise every tenth part becomes a tithe. A tenth part of income from prostitution or tenth part of income from robbery then becomes a tithe.

"A tenth is 1/10 of whole"; A whole what? again you deliberately refused to complete the statement so as not to commit yourself. N10 is a whole just N10,000 is a whole, so if i tithe N1 i have tithed and if i tithe N1,000 i have tithed irrespective of how much i earn.

Now you understand why God defined his tithe in Lev. 27 to avoid this confusion in definition of tithe. Otherwise the Israelite would have been tithing any tenth.

Zikkyy:

I did not ask for what yield is. You said harvest is the same thing as income, all you needed to do was show us where harvest was defined as income. You did not find any, instead you decided to define yield. according to you Harvest=Yield=Income

If i adopt your 'deceitful approach', i can also say Homose.xual is the same thing as Cheerful

Homose.xual:
homosexual (adj.)
1.sexually attracted to members of your own sex
synonyms:
gay, lesbian

Cheerful:
having life or vigor or spirit
synonyms:
alive, animated, blissful, blithe, bright, buoyant, cheery, chuffed, cock-a-hoop, encouraging, gay, genial, glad...

Since there is no obviously no relationship between Homose.xual and Cheerful, i look for what they have in common and define that one abi? so....

Gay:
characterized by liveliness and lightheartedness
synonyms:
brave, braw, bright, brilliant, buoyant, cheerful, cheery, chuffed, cock-a-hoop, convivial, festal, festive, frivolous, frolicsome, genial, glad, gleeful, good-humored, good-humoured, happy, homophile, homose.xual,

source: sensagent dictionary

So as you can see, Homose.xual=Gay=Cheerful Smart abi?

this is a very good analogy that best explain what they are doing.

The truth will be staring them in the face but all they are looking for is how to circumvent it.

Thanks bro.

@Opening Post 4 contd.......
hope this one would not be long,

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

The writer begins to drive home his focus, after showing through the theme of the epistle that Jesus Christ is greater than all. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, i.e if everything had been established or perfected or completed under the Levitical priesthood, what was the need for Jesus to come? Why was there a prophecy after the order of melchizedek instead of the order of Aaron? Aaron became priest in Exodus 28.
Exo 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.
Exodus 28 is where the order of Aaron started. It was shortly followed by the house of Levi joining Aaron to minister. Initially, God had planned for the firstborns in Israel to be priests and to minister.
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
Exo 22:29 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.
All these was before the order of Aaron. The people and Aaron made a calf and committed idolatry, then Moses came and broke the law, saying "who is on the Lord's side". It was only the tribe of levi that came out as on the Lord's side. This decision influenced the choice of Levi to serve in the temple/tabernacle. to be the representatives of God, receiving and offering sacrifices on behalf of God and the people.
Exo 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
Num 3:12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

This is the story behind the Levitical priesthood referred to in (If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?). Under the levitical priesthod, the people received the law. What law? It's certainly not referring to the ones given in Exodus 20 as that was before the Levitical priesthood. You know, there are many 'the law' in the Bible. Just in the new testament, we are told of the law of Moses, the law of the Lord/God, the law of faith, the law of the Jews, the law of sin and death, the law of my mind, the law of liberty, the law of Christ, the law of commandments, among others. There is never a thing like the law of tithes mentioned in the Bible. The law of tithes is only a figment of the antitither's imagination. the Bible has more serious issues to discuss than some law of tithes. seeing there are so many laws referred in the Bible and they are not the same, it becomes necessary to find out "What law?". Because, under the levitical priesthod, the people received the law, what law. Is it Exo 20:12 Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.? No, this was even before the levitical priesthood. So, what law, it was the law of carnal commandments.
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
It was the law of ordinances and ceremonies. It was the law with which the levitical priesthood operated to justify a person. The priesthood justified the individual based on what he did, touched, tasted, handled etc. You were clean by rubbing this and killing that. You were unclean by touching this on so so day, or eating that, or doing those. It operated on carnal commandments. this was the covenant the levites received. They were to do kill this animal, take that part and burn, apply salt to the other part, take the ashes, do this and that. This was the process for justification. This is the law that is done away with in the new covenant. You don't need no cow or turtle dove to be clean or unclean in the new covenant. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,). It's not so much as talking about tithes than it is talking about the garden of Eden, he had made his point using tithes already, and the point is that the order of Melchizedek is superior to the order of Aaron. This is another point to show the superiority. If completion and perfection was in the Levitical priesthood, why was there a future prophecy after the order of melchisedek instead of Aaron? This is the question he is asking the Hebrews in verse11, which he graciously proceeds to answer.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The writer has established that the priesthood is being changed, because of the prophecy in the Psalms and the superiority of Melchizedek to Aaron as he has just shown. As the priesthood is being changed there is a change of the law also. there is a new covenant, a new law. The former law was based on justification by works, the new law is based on justification by faith. The Levitical priesthood system could not justify anybody.
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
The law given under the levitical priesthood was expressed in the books of Leviticus and Numbers. It showed how the pattern of service and life should be before the people could be justified. No one could be justified that way. But Christ brought a better way, a new and living way, a way of justification by faith. Again, thee was nothing wrong with the law. As aleady shown, there were believers that obeyed the law, and even lived according to the law. but they didn't base their justification on keeping the law, but on faith. the Leviical system sought to justify by the works of the law.
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Act 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.
this passage above is rferring to apostle Paul, he also kept the law. he was born again, sanctified and anointed, perhaps more than any of us. But he knew that we are saved by grace through faith.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
This is the point Hebrews is trying to bring out! The Levitical system trusted in justifying one by the law. They said, okay you have sacrificed this, you have given tithes, you have circumcised, you don't commit adultery, you are clean, therefore you are justified. They didn't know that there is none good enough. They didn't know that they didn't actually keep the law. Jesus' order comes and says, you are clean, your sins are forgiven, you are justified, even without obeying nada yet. This is the change of the law. the law is now that if you believe, you will be saved. By grace, you are saved. The justified is now by faith. In the past, in the levitical system, the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But in the new covenant, the just lives by faith.
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Again,
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. It's not changing you shall be holy for I am holy. It's not changing honour your parents, or do not commit adultery, or any of the moral laws! What the Hebrews 7 is advocating is justification by faith, salvation by faith. The Levi system worked at justification by keeping the laws, but now that there is a change of priesthood for a superior priesthood, the system has changed. We are justified by faith. It is not a matter of where the law is found, whether in Genesis or Malachi, or Matthew or 1Peter. Anyone that attempts to be justified/saved by keeping the law is still operating the Levitical system. The law is everywhere, infact, i'm of the opinion that the laws found in the NT are harder than and more difficult than the OT laws. Take for instance, the laws Jesus gave in Matthew5 "But I say unto you", or to love your enemies, or to pray without ceasing, or to rejoice when you fall into trials, or to forgive. Some of the NT laws are just impossible compared to the OT laws. The point God is proving is that we cannot keep the law, we cannot be justified by it. In the new covenant, we are justified first, then by God's grace, we obey the commandments of God. This is the issue Christ was proving to the rich man that came to Him.
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
He wanted to justify himself by some good thing. You know the story, Jesus, who knows all men, knew his weakness. He gave him another law which He knew the rich man could not keep. He said go and sell your belongings. This is the purpose of the law, to prove all men guilty before God.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

But when you are justified by faith, you bein to show love for God and fellow men by obeying the law by grace. This time you are not under the law, looking for justification, but in faith in Christ, doing all things through Christ. This is why in Christ, nothing is really compulsory but faith, because nothing justifies you but faith.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
you're not justified because you went to church, or prayed, or fasted, or gave alms, or offerings, or a vow, or tithes, or you work in church or whatever. Nothing is compulsory in a sense, not even salvation. It is whosoever will, it is he that hath an ear.

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchizedek there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord swore and will not repent, Thou art a priest forever after the order of

All the rest of the chapter are hanging on these points laid, i wont go further in them due to space and time.

^^^
lol.

@Oyedepo-image123

is this the post that you said that:

Image123:
hope this one would not be long,

How long then will your elaborate post be? Lol.

Must you be dishonest on all things? Lol.

Image123:
hope this one would not be long,

@ Brethren, let's all take time to read Image123's and ask questions. Since we must prove all things. Let's take time to read and post our questions to him.

@ Image123, please be prepared to answer many questions. I will start afresh to read your expository commentary so I can have a focused reading and I will compile my questions. Thank you for the time and input.

Image123: @Opening Post2 contd.....
There's this scripture that says give to God what is God's. you don't give what is God's to man or to an animal.

This is one statement pastors use to deceive those that cannot think for themselves. What is giving to God? are you going to take a private jet to heaven and hand over what belongs to God to God? God fined what belong to him and how it should given to him. In the case of tithe God defined tithe of land (in agric produce) as his, and he says you should give it to him by handing it over to the Levite as their inheritance.

Image123:
You can't give God's tithe to the poor, or to a friend in need. God's tithe is for God.

Deuteronomy 14 says the poor and needy should benefit from tithe. So what is the source of the message you are giving us here?

Image123:
Abraham didn't give his tithes to the King of Sodom, or to Lot or to any of the captives he could have changed their lives or fortunes with. He didn't even give it to the men who he wanted to have their portion.

So who did Abraham give his tithe to? God? Is it written anywhere in the bible that God claimed the tenth of war spoils as his own? and it should be given to Melchizedek?

Image123:
Abraham gave his tithes to a great man, king of righteousness, priest of the most high God. And what did he give, it was the tenth of the spoils. Again, note that Abraham did not take Lot's property or the King of Sodom's goods. So, what did he take and tithe from? Of the spoils.

spoils, plural noun
1. property seized by victor: valuables or property seized by the victor in a conflict
2. something gained through effort: something valuable or desirable gained through effort, opportunism, or other means

Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
These were the goods of the about four kings defeated and their armies, or maybe kingdoms.

Genesis 14:11-16(KJV)
And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way. And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed. And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram. And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan. And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus. And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

Consider the bolded (in blue), you don't think there is a relationship there? it is not stated that he brought with him the goods of the kings he fought against. You really need to re-assess your sermon here.

vickyO: That Christ never condemned tithe and offerings.....that was stilling according to the law. We have argued that so much that I cannot over emphasis on it. The is the reason the Apostles didn't give strict teaching on tithe - because it wasn't the Apostles that were tithing what you said Christ didn't condemn, it was the scribes and pharisees; not the disciples.
i dont get this part.

Brother Goshen, you yet to respond to this lady o!

Image123: @Opening Post3 contd........
Most of the early christians seem to be good givers. paul even said of some that he didn't need to teach them giving as they knew it. you don't teach an undergraduate alphabets or addition, it is for granted that he knows it.

So how come our pastors spend 'eternity' preaching giving by tithing? It's because they (pastors) have refused to teach the congregation what it means to love. Maybe they have given up on the congregation that they can never love and decided it would profit the church (& pastor) to just collect what they can collect (in the form of cash).

Image123: @Opening Post3 contd........
It was a similar issue with the Hebrews, they were givers.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love, which ye have showed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
in this passage, the Spirit of God encourages the Hebrews and their giving, and enjoins them to follow Abraham.

Another attempt at legitimizing your tithing activities by reference to Abraham's rendering a tenth of war spoils. It is not stated anywhere in verse you verse above that the Hebrews should follow Abraham You see Pastor Kuns will continue to call you 'olodo'. I see you highlighted verse 12. For your information that verse is not referring to Abraham because Abraham did not 'inherit' the promise, he was given (or he received) the promise. The verse is referring to descendants of Abraham.

Image123:
the sons of Levi, who receive[b]d[/b] the office of the priesthood, ha[b]d[/b] a commandment to take tithes of the people. They took tithes of the people, this is contrary to the statement of some antitithers i've encountered who say that the priests do not collect tithes of the people. This verse says they did. It says the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law.

The Hebrew verse is not just referring to the high priest alone, he was talking about the priestly tribe of Levi. It was the tribe of Levi that received the office of priesthood and we see instances in the bible the Levites are referred to as priests:

2 Chronicles 31:15 (KJV)
15 And next him were Eden, and Miniamin, and Jeshua, and Shemaiah, Amariah, and Shecaniah, in the cities of the priests, in their set office, to give to their brethren by courses, as well to the great as to the small:

Deuteronomy 10:8 (KJV)
8 At that time the Lord separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the Lord, to stand before the Lord to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day. ------>

<----- Joshua 3:2-3 (KJV)
And it came to pass after three days, that the officers went through the host; And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it.

Image123:
The point been made in this verse and in the following two is that the Levi priests were elevated above their brethren to receive the offerings of God(they were the ones on the Lord's side), and how much more Melchizedek, who received tithes from Abraham. The person who received the tithe or the offering was considered as a representative of God, a person higher/greater than the giver of the offering.

I am surprised you are saying this. who told you Levi priests were 'elevated' above their brethren? and who told you that receiving offering make them higher/greater than their brethren. Another attempt to elevate pastors abi? am beginning to suspect you are a pastor. To think you even quoted Hebrews 5:1-3 but don't even understand it. Let me post in clearer English maybe it will make more sense to you:

Hebrews 5:1-3 (NIV)
Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. 3This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people.

Image123:
This is given for verses 5 and 6. The priest blesses the people because the people are the less and the priest the better.

Nonsense!

Image123:
Aaron represents the Levitical priesthood. Aaron's system/order dies(men that die receive), but Christ's priesthood/order doesn't die(it is witnessed that he liveth). So, Melchizedel order or Christ's order of priesthood is greater than Aaron/Levitical order because 1) Abraham gave to Melchi, 2) Abraham was blessed by Melchi, and 3) Melchi's order doesn't die. Then he stamps this position with another point in the next two verses.

Again you show lack of understanding of the Hebrew passage. is it the (melchi order) that is witness to 'liveth' or is it the priest himself? Here it is the nature of the priest that defines the priestly office. The order of Aaron is characterized by the longevity of the priest in office (prevented by death from being in office forever), but it is witnessed that Melchi liveth (Hebrews 7:3 Without father, mother, or ancestry, without beginning of days or end of life, 4 thus made to resemble the Son of God, he remains a priest forever).

Image123:
3) Melchi's order doesn't die.

Order (or whatever you call it) don't have the qualities of life or death, it is the priest in office that determines if that priestly type (what you call order) continues to exist or not. You know that the Order of Aaron was still operating at the time the book of Hebrews was written and probably was in operation till 70.A.D.

Image123: @Opening Post 4 contd.......
hope this one would not be long,


The writer begins to drive home his focus, after showing through the theme of the epistle that Jesus Christ is greater than all. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, i.e if everything had been established or perfected or completed under the Levitical priesthood, what was the need for Jesus to come? Why was there a prophecy after the order of melchizedek instead of the order of Aaron? Aaron became priest in Exodus 28.
Exo 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.
Exodus 28 is where the order of Aaron started. It was shortly followed by the house of Levi joining Aaron to minister. Initially, God had planned for the firstborns in Israel to be priests and to minister.
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
Exo 22:29 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.
All these was before the order of Aaron. The people and Aaron made a calf and committed idolatry, then Moses came and broke the law, saying "who is on the Lord's side". It was only the tribe of levi that came out as on the Lord's side. This decision influenced the choice of Levi to serve in the temple/tabernacle. to be the representatives of God, receiving and offering sacrifices on behalf of God and the people.
Exo 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
Num 3:12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

This is the story behind the Levitical priesthood referred to in (If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?). Under the levitical priesthod, the people received the law. What law? It's certainly not referring to the ones given in Exodus 20 as that was before the Levitical priesthood. You know, there are many 'the law' in the Bible. Just in the new testament, we are told of the law of Moses, the law of the Lord/God, the law of faith, the law of the Jews, the law of sin and death, the law of my mind, the law of liberty, the law of Christ, the law of commandments, among others. There is never a thing like the law of tithes mentioned in the Bible. The law of tithes is only a figment of the antitither's imagination. the Bible has more serious issues to discuss than some law of tithes. seeing there are so many laws referred in the Bible and they are not the same, it becomes necessary to find out "What law?". Because, under the levitical priesthod, the people received the law, what law. Is it Exo 20:12 Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.? No, this was even before the levitical priesthood. So, what law, it was the law of carnal commandments.
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
It was the law of ordinances and ceremonies. It was the law with which the levitical priesthood operated to justify a person. The priesthood justified the individual based on what he did, touched, tasted, handled etc. You were clean by rubbing this and killing that. You were unclean by touching this on so so day, or eating that, or doing those. It operated on carnal commandments. this was the covenant the levites received. They were to do kill this animal, take that part and burn, apply salt to the other part, take the ashes, do this and that. This was the process for justification. This is the law that is done away with in the new covenant. You don't need no cow or turtle dove to be clean or unclean in the new covenant. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,). It's not so much as talking about tithes than it is talking about the garden of Eden, he had made his point using tithes already, and the point is that the order of Melchizedek is superior to the order of Aaron. This is another point to show the superiority. If completion and perfection was in the Levitical priesthood, why was there a future prophecy after the order of melchisedek instead of Aaron? This is the question he is asking the Hebrews in verse11, which he graciously proceeds to answer.



The writer has established that the priesthood is being changed, because of the prophecy in the Psalms and the superiority of Melchizedek to Aaron as he has just shown. As the priesthood is being changed there is a change of the law also. there is a new covenant, a new law. The former law was based on justification by works, the new law is based on justification by faith. The Levitical priesthood system could not justify anybody.
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
The law given under the levitical priesthood was expressed in the books of Leviticus and Numbers. It showed how the pattern of service and life should be before the people could be justified. No one could be justified that way. But Christ brought a better way, a new and living way, a way of justification by faith. Again, thee was nothing wrong with the law. As aleady shown, there were believers that obeyed the law, and even lived according to the law. but they didn't base their justification on keeping the law, but on faith. the Leviical system sought to justify by the works of the law.
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Act 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.
this passage above is rferring to apostle Paul, he also kept the law. he was born again, sanctified and anointed, perhaps more than any of us. But he knew that we are saved by grace through faith.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
This is the point Hebrews is trying to bring out! The Levitical system trusted in justifying one by the law. They said, okay you have sacrificed this, you have given tithes, you have circumcised, you don't commit adultery, you are clean, therefore you are justified. They didn't know that there is none good enough. They didn't know that they didn't actually keep the law. Jesus' order comes and says, you are clean, your sins are forgiven, you are justified, even without obeying nada yet. This is the change of the law. the law is now that if you believe, you will be saved. By grace, you are saved. The justified is now by faith. In the past, in the levitical system, the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But in the new covenant, the just lives by faith.
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Again,
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. It's not changing you shall be holy for I am holy. It's not changing honour your parents, or do not commit adultery, or any of the moral laws! What the Hebrews 7 is advocating is justification by faith, salvation by faith. The Levi system worked at justification by keeping the laws, but now that there is a change of priesthood for a superior priesthood, the system has changed. We are justified by faith. It is not a matter of where the law is found, whether in Genesis or Malachi, or Matthew or 1Peter. Anyone that attempts to be justified/saved by keeping the law is still operating the Levitical system. The law is everywhere, infact, i'm of the opinion that the laws found in the NT are harder than and more difficult than the OT laws. Take for instance, the laws Jesus gave in Matthew5 "But I say unto you", or to love your enemies, or to pray without ceasing, or to rejoice when you fall into trials, or to forgive. Some of the NT laws are just impossible compared to the OT laws. The point God is proving is that we cannot keep the law, we cannot be justified by it. In the new covenant, we are justified first, then by God's grace, we obey the commandments of God. This is the issue Christ was proving to the rich man that came to Him.
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
He wanted to justify himself by some good thing. You know the story, Jesus, who knows all men, knew his weakness. He gave him another law which He knew the rich man could not keep. He said go and sell your belongings. This is the purpose of the law, to prove all men guilty before God.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

But when you are justified by faith, you bein to show love for God and fellow men by obeying the law by grace. This time you are not under the law, looking for justification, but in faith in Christ, doing all things through Christ. This is why in Christ, nothing is really compulsory but faith, because nothing justifies you but faith.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
you're not justified because you went to church, or prayed, or fasted, or gave alms, or offerings, or a vow, or tithes, or you work in church or whatever. Nothing is compulsory in a sense, not even salvation. It is whosoever will, it is he that hath an ear.


All the rest of the chapter are hanging on these points laid, i wont go further in them due to space and time.

Brother you just hit the nail on the head. I know you don't like me very mush but take a BIG peck for this exposition.

I have said earlier this long Goshen epistle is unnespcessary . The message of paul was not about tithe . His Condemnation of the law was the fact that the law failed in bringing Gods righteousness and justification which we have recieved by faith, but that doesn't condemn the works of the law. There's are deeds of the law that are eternal principles . They transcend dispensations. Those works of the law are not wrong in themselves but , when a man used them wrongly it brings condemnation. How can a man use the law wrongly? It's by seeking to be made righteous through the law. Apart from that the law is holy. The law reveals Gods principles and stand. And these principles have been there before Levitical order.

1 Timothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;


Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


The only works of the law that is not necessary are the things jesus fulfiled. The principles in the law are not condemned but seeking justification before God by them is condemned. Paul message in Heb 7 is not about tithing or condemnation of tithing . His emphasis there is that jesus came in the highest order of priesthood. For the fact that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and Levi indirectly to tithed to Melchi makes Melchi higher than they all and Jesus didnt become highpriest in the lesser priest hood of men who dies (Aaron /Levi ) he came in the highest order - Melchi . That's simlply the message being complicated unesesarily here.
. The message is simple .jesus is greater than all . O pari.

Image123:
But when you are justified by faith, you bein to show love for God and fellow men by obeying the law by grace. This time you are not under the law, looking for justification, but in faith in Christ, doing all things through Christ.

Do you now agree that love could not be achieved by adherence to the law?

TheShopKeeper:

Please study your bible again, it will help you have a better understanding.

i understand it my brother and i have have come to a conclusion that we are to pay our tithes an offerings. when you give with the heart of gratitude to God the blessings in Luke 6:36 shall be yours.
If you pay it, it will not kill you, and it will not make you go to hell instead blessings and financial prosperity will come your way
. Dont bother yourself with what the church will do with the money because they will give account to God on the last day.