@KunleOshob,

KunleOshob:

@ogajim
Welcome on board, i see you have been under attack for expressing your views on this thread and your adversary is none other than our own dear pligrim.1, i must warn you though pilgrim.1 for what ever reason assumes she is the only intelligent person on nairaland and she has a very arrogant way of expressing her ignorance or delusions especially on this issue of tithes. That apart there is obviously an interst she is defending as far is this issue is concerned hence her penchance to distort scripture and confuse issues when she is trying to deceive others about tithes.

Thank you for the personal attack - later you'd sanctimoniously claim as your brethren often do: nobody is attacking anybody. Resorting to the same ad hominems anytime your shakara fails you is now characteristic - and no, none of your adulators ever see your conceit to say a word anywhere about this. If I were to face up to this attitude again, someone somewhere would cough to complain about my methods of debates.

KunleOshob:

@Pilgrim.1
I see you keep asking anti -tithers why they don't encourage people to tithe since they don't have anything against tithing per se, the question should be why should i tithe or encourage anybody to tithe in the first place and what is the christian basis for it?

Of course, not. The reason why anti-tithers pretend they don't have a problem with anyone tithing is because they actually do. This is why your inconsistencies are laughable at best. What is the Christian basis for your own "perfectly okay" tithes for Christians?

KunleOshob:

Spot on this is the message which some of us have been trying to put across and also expect all others who claim to be christians to to support. Cos deceit is totally unchristian[whether it is being done by a pastor or not] it really beats me how someone who claims to be a true believer would put up such a spirited fight to defend a very glaring and wide spread deceit in christianity and would even go to the extent of further distorting scriptures to butress her delusions.

Deceit, as you say, is totally 'unchristian' - which is why yours also needs to be pointed out.

ogajim:

Thank you Kunle, I kinda sensed that, thank you my brother.
I will leave her(?) alone because of an old saying back home " don't argue with a fool because passers by will not notice the difference" God bless you brother man.

Lol, you just have a way of describing yourself.

You know, the best thing would be for some of us to let go; no matter what any body says and no matter how it affects us.

Let go and breath easy is what some of us have to do here.

@Ttalks
Are you saying as christians we should just sit back and allow others to keep spreading falsehood about our faith whilst bringing our religion to ridicle.

KunleOshob:

@Ttalks
Are you saying as christians we should just sit back and allow others to keep spreading falsehood about our faith whilst bringing our religion to ridicle.

No, I'm not saying that.

What I'm saying is this:
Once we have made sure we have brought to table all the points to support our beliefs or convictions, we should sit back and allow other reasonable Christians to go through and make their own decisions; no mater what the opposing group might say.
We should trust that others have brains and can use them as long as the proper info has been provided.

It is only when a whole new angle to the argument is brought up that we can attempt to address it.

ttalks:

No, I'm not saying that.

What I'm saying is this:
Once we have made sure we have brought to table all the points to support our beliefs or convictions, we should sit back and allow other reasonable Christians to go through and make their own decisions; no mater what the opposing group might say.
We should trust that others have brains and can use them as long as the proper info has been provided.

It is only when a whole new angle to the argument is brought up that we can attempt to address it.

Whilst i agree with your submission here, the machavaellian and manipulative way pilgrim.1 posts does not allow for this, her several rants, twists quotes[albeit out of context] is capable of confusing others further. she also constantly tries to discredit the truths we post on this topic hence to need to battle her to a logical conclusion else she would continue to lead others out of the grace of christ.

KunleOshob:

Whilst i agree with your submission here, the machavaellian and manipulative way pilgrim.1 posts does not allow for this, her several rants, twists quotes[albeit out of context] is capable of confusing others further. she also constantly tries to discredit the truths we post on this topic hence to need to battle her to a logical conclusion else she would continue to lead others out of the grace of christ.

Why are my posts your death-trap? How is it that you cannot address a simple case until you take the pains to castigate 'pilgrim.1'?

why is there an argument over paying of tithes or not? Are we now under the law?

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

If you are led to pay tithes . . . do so. If you are not so led, give however you are led to give. chikena.

David,

My discussions about tithing do not place anyone under the Law.

davidylan:

why is there an argument over paying of tithes or not? Are we now under the law?

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

If you are led to pay tithes . . . do so. If you are not so led, give however you are led to give. chikena.

This is not about being led or not because most people are led to tithe based on faslehood, it is the truth we seek to reveal here there after the person with the full knowledge of the truth and that he as no christian obligation to tithe can then decide if he is led to tithe or not.

KunleOshob:

This is not about being led or not because most people are led to tithe based on faslehood, it is the truth we seek to reveal here there after the person with the full knowledge of the truth and that he as no christian obligation to tithe can then decide if he is led to tithe or not.

Caution - personal opinion.

I dont think it is a forced obligation to tithe a certain percentage of your money. However i believe it is an issue of being led . . . the new testament talks about "cheerful givers" . . . my understanding there is that giving is NOT mandatory but an outflow of our love for God that we are willing to sacrifice our time, money and energy for His gospel. Should i choose to give my time to preach the word, am i any worse than he who gives 20% of his salary? Is giving strictly all about money?

I dont think its about false or right doctrine either . . . to each his own understanding of the scriptures.

2 Cor 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

davidylan:

Caution - personal opinion.

I dont think it is a forced obligation to tithe a certain percentage of your money. However i believe it is an issue of being led . . . the new testament talks about "cheerful givers" . . . my understanding there is that giving is NOT mandatory but an outflow of our love for God that we are willing to sacrifice our time, money and energy for His gospel. Should i choose to give my time to preach the word, am i any worse than he who gives 20% of his salary? Is giving strictly all about money?

I dont think its about false or right doctrine either . . . to each his own understanding of the scriptures.

2 Cor 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Cheerful giving in christianity is not controvertible[even though the giving in the passsage you referred to was directed at the needy and not the church instituition] whilst i have no qualms about giving to the church i believe all preachers of the gospel are bound to say the truth. But on the issue of tithes becos of the filthy lucre involved the truth is not being said by a good number of preachers and the preachers that know the truth are embarassingly quiet on it hence the reason some of us have taken up the mantle to speak this truth out.

The very same point we tried to make exactly. It is not only the "bishop", "GO" "pastor" that knows where my hard earned money will be better spent, some people will need drop this until we all surrender to their little whims and say tithes are legal obligations a Christian carries. I could decide to bless different people who I see need help rather than giving it to someone to purchase a private jet, we have choices as Christians. Only those that benefit from this scam/misinformation will oppose it with the venom we've seen from a certain someone.

ogajim:

The very same point we tried to make exactly. It is not only the "bishop", "GO" "pastor" that knows where my hard earned money will be better spent, some people will need drop this until we all surrender to their little whims and say tithes are legal obligations a Christian carries. I could decide to bless different people who I see need help rather than giving it to someone to purchase a private jet, we have choices as Christians. Only those that benefit from this scam/misinformation will oppose it with the venom we've seen from a certain someone.

Who's the 'certain someone'? Have you not used the same 'venom' on others and tried to justify yourself in doing so? Did you read any "legal obligation" in what I've discussed thus far?

PG.1
Don't let me advocate another ban on you oooooo like your buddy baby journalist to be

ogajim:

PG.1
Don't let me advocate another ban on you oooooo like your buddy baby journalist to be

Lol, you've got some ego! Let's pally abeg o!!!

pilgrim.1:

Lol, you've got some ego! Let's pally abeg o!!!

I've got some "ego"?
"let go my ego then"!

How shall we escape?

I've been born again since 1994, I've experienced highs and lows in my life, just like every other person in this life, Unbelievers,Tithe-Paying Believers. Shall we then say, that those lows in our lives are as a direct result of not paying tithe?

Remember God rain down his blessings on both the justs and the justs, as I always say it, God is not a wicked God!

Christianity is a way of life after Christ, in situations like this, what will Jesus himself do? What has he done regards paying Tithe?
Even his immediate disciples and church, what did they do with regards to tithe paying?

It's so sad that the 21st Century have deviated so much from the Church principles laid down by the early Christians. Maybe we're looking for rewards from making Christianity a religion so bigger than it was then. But let's remember, Christianity ain't a Religion, it's totally different from Judaism and the likes. Christianity is living the exemplary life of Christ!

Peace Out!
Allta

Allta:

Maybe we're looking for rewards from making Christianity a religion so bigger than it was then. But let's remember, Christianity ain't a Religion, it's totally different from Judaism and the likes. Christianity is living the exemplary life of Christ!

If you're not inclined to tithing, leave those who desire to tithe to freely do so. And unless you want to deny what your own Bible teaches, it's clear that Christianity IS a religion - let's stop all these half-truths and 'sweet denials'.

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this,
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,
and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

pilgrim.1:

If you're not inclined to tithing, leave those who desire to tithe to freely do so. And unless you want to deny what your own Bible teaches, it's clear that Christianity IS a religion - let's stop all these half-truths and 'sweet denials'.

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this,
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,
and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Even if you decide to define christianity as a religion, it's principles and practises are way different from other world religions and that does not justify the forcing in of twisted and false doctrines such as tithes, seed offerings, first fruit offerings, thanks giving offerings, faith offerings e.t.c borrowed from Judaism religion which were never taught by the apostles or christ. And before you start quoting scriptures were Paul asked christians to sow seeds kindly include the part were the purpose of the seeds was stated; and that was to take care of poor and needy christians unlike what our greedy and selfish preachers practise and teach today

First time I am gonna use the word "GBAM"

KunleOshob:

Even if you decide to define christianity as a religion, it's principles and practises are way different from other world religions and that does not justify the forcing in of twisted and false doctrines such as tithes, seed offerings, first fruit offerings, thanks giving offerings, faith offerings e.t.c borrowed from Judaism religion which were never taught by the apostles or christ. And before you start quoting scriptures were Paul asked christians to sow seeds kindly include the part were the purpose of the seeds was stated; and that was to take care of poor and needy christians unlike what our greedy and selfish preachers practise and teach today

I know you have no clue what you often try to argue but just like to occupy space. Let people do as their hearts are led - they didn't deep their hands into your pocket, nor did Christianity begin and end with you or me. Please. Even you up until tomorrow cannot show from Scripture the very tithes you called "perfectly okay", so what is all this wasteful talk that you keep pointing at others when you cannot show your own?

I didn't "decide" to define Christianity as religion - the verse I quoted was not penned down by me or any of my relatives. Open your own Bible to that verse and strike it out if you see "religion" there - it won't be anything new. No matter how you slice it, Christianity was called a RELIGION in that verse in your Bible and there's nothing you can do about it. The excuse you're making was not stated in my reply earlier. Christians can and should let others live their lives as they see what the Bible teaches, not because someone else is grumbling about what they hope should not be there.

pilgrim.1:

I know you have no clue what you often try to argue but just like to occupy space.

With the risk of sounding arrogant i am quite certain that you know fully well in your heart that i am quite verse as far as this issue of tithes is concerned and that i can not be faulted biblically speaking by any human being that brains in his/her head.

pilgrim.1:

Let people do as their hearts are led - they didn't deep their hands into your pocket, nor did Christianity begin and end with you or me. Please. Even you up until tomorrow cannot show from Scripture the very tithes you called "perfectly okay", so what is all this wasteful talk that you keep pointing at others when you cannot show your own?

That is the problem people tithe not becos their hearts are led to tithe but becos they have been deceived into beliving that God requested it from them, the money is meant for God, not doing it is a grievious sin, They would be "blessed" by doing it and they are believe they are giving to "GOD". As the topic of this passage implies pastors should tell their congregation the whole truth about tithes before allowing them to be "led" by the spirit of mamon to give their "tithes"

pilgrim.1:

I didn't "decide" to define Christianity as religion - the verse I quoted was not penned down by me or any of my relatives. Open your own Bible to that verse and strike it out if you see "religion" there - it won't be anything new. No matter how you slice it, Christianity was called a RELIGION in that verse in your Bible and there's nothing you can do about it. The excuse you're making was not stated in my reply earlier. Christians can and should let others live their lives as they see what the Bible teaches, not because someone else is grumbling about what they hope should not be there.

My exact point is what is highlighted in red above but today unfortunately it is not what the bible teaches that matters but what the pastor teaches or the pastor's twisted interpretation of what the bible teaches.

KunleOshob:

With the risk of sounding arrogant i am quite certain that you know fully well in your heart that i am quite verse as far as this issue of tithes is concerned and that i can not be faulted biblically speaking by any human being that brains in his/her head.

Okay, please show us from your "quite verse" shakara where you find your "perfectly okay" tithes. That is all you need to show, stop making vacant eternal excuses and providing none.

KunleOshob:
That is the problem people tithe not becos their hearts are led to tithe but becos they have been deceived into beliving that God requested it from them, the money is meant for God, not doing it is a grievious sin, They would be "blessed" by doing it and they are believe they are giving to "GOD". As the topic of this passage implies pastors should tell their congregation the whole truth about tithes before allowing them to be "led" by the spirit of mamon to give their "tithes"

I see - you have already assumed your bias about everyone who tithes. No worries.

KunleOshob:
My exact point is what is highlighted in red above but today unfortunately it is not what the bible teaches that matters but what the pastor teaches or the pastor's twisted interpretation of what the bible teaches.

I'm sorry, but please do you mind refraining from excusing your ideas under my posts? I don't think we've been on the same page; and as far as I know, many people have said the same thing as in mine and pointedly appealed to you to let others be. I don't know where you ever heeded that call. But I have no problem here if you can take it on board now; but if you again turn around and won't let others be, the choice is also yours.

Those Gospel pimps and their agents are not interested in what the Bible teaches if you ask me, they can only continue to deceive those who are too lazy to study the Bible for themselves. I smile now when I hear them quote the now most popular verse in the Bible Malachi3:10 ( heard it this past Sunday again), knowledge is the KEY to stopping these guilt peddlers.
Ever wonder why the new incorporated "churches" don't have anything like elementary school, high school, clinic, etc that serves the poor like the old time "missionaries" did? I want to ask PG.1 a question, "what is the worth of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for our sake?
Thank you and God bless you all.

Na wa o!
See me see trouble oO! I can only speak for myself, and I'm not saying people should stop paying tithe. All I'm saying is there is no devourer to devour your pocket if one doesn't! That's the truth, and why do you Pilgrim of all people find it difficult to accept the truth!

BTW: Wether you quote scripture or not, Christianity transits religion, James 1:27 recognises that there are religions, but there is a Pure and Undefiled Religion. How many people in the world today practices this form of Religion, there are those who lie that God will curse you if you don't pay tithe as a Christian and that he will let devourer(devil) chop your pocket.
Please don't quote scripture out of context, Christianity is more than just meeting in a building every particular days of the week, getting high and hyped and then going home to return to same building again. That's religion, Christianity is more than that.

I for call you olodo if not for the so much contributions you've made in this forum.

Did James 1:27 said Christianity is a Religion? Emphatically NO! It simply defined a Pure and Undefiled Religion as this: Visiting Fatherless and widows in their afflictions; keeping oneself unspotted from the world! Where in this passage is Christianity mentioned!? Intellectual contributions is more than just googlesearching bible for key words, it means to be logical and clear on transmitting your points home, you should try it sometimes.

These are my points:
1. Pastors should stop creating fears in modern Christians that if they don't pay tithe, they will be devoured and curses will be rained on them.
2. Whoever wants to tithe, should do so as commanded in Deut 14:22-29
3. Pastors should start teaching from Deut 14 on how to pay tithe for those who want to.

Eat your Tithe every year in God's Presence:

Deut 14:22 NIV
Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.

The only exception where this passage mentioned any form of money(silver) is:

Deut 14:24-25
But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose.

Then use your money to buy whatever you like, then eat it:

Deut 14:26 NIV
Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice.

Not forgetting the needy, because they have nothing else to leave on:

Deut 14:27 NIV
And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

It's a free world and people should be allowed to express what they believe, I've expressed my own, just like you've done! For me, even the Cele and C&S perform what they call ikore/ajodun/anniversary which is an example of the atmosphere those who want to pay tithe should follow.

Whether anyone likes it on not! This is the truth Pastors don't tell people about tithes, and that's what this post is all about!

Peace Out!
Allta

Kudos Allta.


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Ephesians 5:15-25 (King James Version)

15See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

16Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;


It's more than 4th and long for those who want to use our Bible for personal gain/wealth, their end is here.

Honestly, ogajim, I'd wanted to ignore your post - because it seems of late that you guys are not interested in discussing but merely continuing a needless jingoism. Nothing personal, just that I don't want to keep harping on that issue as you guys often do. But having addressed me directly, this is what I've to say to your enquiry:

ogajim:

Those Gospel pimps and their agents are not interested in what the Bible teaches if you ask me, they can only continue to deceive those who are too lazy to study the Bible for themselves. I smile now when I hear them quote the now most popular verse in the Bible Malachi3:10 ( heard it this past Sunday again), knowledge is the KEY to stopping these guilt peddlers.
Ever wonder why the new incorporated "churches" don't have anything like elementary school, high school, clinic, etc that serves the poor like the old time "missionaries" did?

First, I wasn't discussing 'pimps' with you or anyone; and tithes and Christian giving are not all about 'pimps' either. I believe we can discuss the subject without using those ideas as necessary distractions. God will deal with those who abuse His grace as best He sees fit and at the right time - and that is enough for me.

Second, I'm not joining any party to constantly point accusing fingers at anyone. If it's your domain, I wish you well; but it doesn't promote anyone's spirituality - and for that reason, I'm not inclined to waste precious time on such matters, as I believe enough has been said about such things. The many relevant threads for discussing such problems are still there, and if you're feeling like it, please seek them out and enjoy.

Third, rather than complain against others and constantly accuse people, we can do better than whinge all day. We should have evidence of our own labour for the Lord Jesus Christ, not 'evidence' littered about with accusations. I've made mistakes in the past - but I'm maturing and growing in my walk with the Lord. So, instead of asking accusingly why some new 'churches' are not doing this, that and the other, you can help fill the gap yourself - you can start by producing your own evidence of "elementary school, high school, clinic, etc" and also evidence of serving the poor like the old time "missionaries" did. The evidence we're talking about here is not to hide behind a PC and knock two fingers typing on a keyboard - NO. We need hard evidence with real people and real addresses of an ongoing demonstration that we're producing the same things we complain are lacking in some churches. To keep complaining and having no evidence ourselves will only tend to the hypocrisy condemned in Matt. 23:2 - "for they say, and do not". I'm not inclined to be a cheap talker and complainer without any evidence of such things operating in my own life - and that's why I often these days do not like engaging in arguments where people are only interested in pointing accusing fingers. It does not make me any better than anybody else; but my apologies for not joining such tendencies.

ogajim:
I want to ask PG.1 a question, "what is the worth of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for our sake?
Thank you and God bless you all.

Thank you and God bless you as well.

Nobody can quantify the worth of His sacrifice. Absolutely nobody. So asking me what that 'worth' is, only tends to be quite an ambitious question to undertake.

However, even though we cannot quantify the worth of His sacrifice for our sake, there are many blessings that come along with that vicarious sacrifice;

      * our sin is taken away and we are redeemed

      * through faith we are the children of God as well joint-heirs with Christ

      * the works of darkness is destroyed

. .  and most of all:

      * through His sacrifice, the Father was glorified.

There are more. But just because He gave Himself for us does not mean we automatically stop obeying His Word or stop giving of our offerings altogether. Whatever the case, I know for a fact that such a sacrifice was not made for our sakes so that we can be 'accusers of the brethren'. When people deem it their prerogative to justify accusing other believers brashly, they are demonstrating a disgrace to His sacrifice rather than thankful appreciation thereto.

Cheers.

Allta:

Na wa o!
See me see trouble oO! I can only speak for myself, and I'm not saying people should stop paying tithe. All I'm saying is there is no devourer to devour your pocket if one doesn't! That's the truth, and why do you Pilgrim of all people find it difficult to accept the truth!

What 'truth' have you shared that I find difficult to accept? What is your brand of spirituality that presents half-truths and hopes anyone should accept it or they qualify under your accusations? if you don't know something, ask! that's what people do, not make half-statements denying what your Bible teaches and complaining against others.

Allta:

BTW: Wether you quote scripture or not, Christianity transits religion, James 1:27 recognises that there are religions, but there is a Pure and Undefiled Religion. How many people in the world today practices this form of Religion, there are those who lie that God will curse you if you don't pay tithe as a Christian and that he will let devourer(devil) chop your pocket.

However you excuse that verse, it teaches you that Christianity is a religion. QED. Making excuses here and there is no better than denying that verse. Anytjhing you cannot identify with, you use 'tithes' as an automatic excuse to dust it under.

Allta:

Please don't quote scripture out of context, Christianity is more than just meeting in a building every particular days of the week, getting high and hyped and then going home to return to same building again. That's religion, Christianity is more than that.

Sorry you have no clue - my deep empathy. Did I ever anywhere define religion in the manner you have done? Just stop making cheap excuses - the Bible teaches that Christianity IS a religion. That is not something you can start haggling like the price of fish in the market.

Allta:

I for call you olodo if not for the so much contributions you've made in this forum.

You can call me whatever - it's your call, so welcome to do so anytime.

Allta:

Did James 1:27 said Christianity is a Religion? Emphatically NO! It simply defined a Pure and Undefiled Religion as this: Visiting Fatherless and widows in their afflictions; keeping oneself unspotted from the world! Where in this passage is Christianity mentioned!? Intellectual contributions is more than just googlesearching bible for key words, it means to be logical and clear on transmitting your points home, you should try it sometimes.

Sometimes I just wish you guys will grow up. So, just because you did not see the word Christianity there, you assume the verse has nothing to do with it? Does that verse not mention "God and the Father"? Which other religion in the world is presented as "BEFORE GOD AND THE FATHER" in the verse? You assume that I went Googling. . and yet you can't quote the webpage I stumbled on! So much for your magical intellectualism.

Allta:

These are my points:
1. Pastors should stop creating fears in modern Christians that if they don't pay tithe, they will be devoured and curses will be rained on them.

Not all tithe-preaching pastors teach that.

Allta:

2. Whoever wants to tithe, should do so as commanded in Deut 14:22-29

Why make a law for others - are you now the personal assistant of the Lord?

Allta:

3. Pastors should start teaching from Deut 14 on how to pay tithe for those who want to.

Is that the only chapter on tithing you find in the Bible? If not, WHY make a rule on that one chapter?

Half-truths is a dangerous and very religious thing - and you're doing that very same thing you are asking others not to do. Well done.

Allta:

It's a free world and people should be allowed to express what they believe, I've expressed my own, just like you've done!

Amen, and Amen. 

PG.1,


Thank you, you have made my point.

Whatever I am doing now should be between me and God and not meant to be shared as the "pharisees" did but our Lord Jesus warned us against seeking the glory of men in our deeds so I will leave that alone.
I don't remember registering a company I mean church so building a school is kinda out of my reach for now but if that is his will for me, I will do that as well.
The main thing here is educating others who felt it but didn't know what to make of the message, it's like reaching out to those who are under the "curse, bondage, trap, etc" to let them know they're not alone. It took a major move for me to review what I had been hearing and realizing that I was being taken for a ride ( and to the cleaners) so I had to hit the breaks and studied ( I will continue to) the standard operating manual he bequeathed to us - The Holy Bible.
We love you sister girl, no offense. Serve God only and may his grace be with you.

ogajim:

PG.1,


Thank you, you have made my point.

Okay, no wahala.

ogajim:

Whatever I am doing now should be between me and God and not meant to be shared as the "pharisees" did but our Lord Jesus warned us against seeking the glory of men in our deeds so I will leave that alone.

Then why is it difficult for you guys to let others do what is between them and God? I'm not talking about 'pimps' now; but without the 'pimps', there are many believers who are inclined to tithe as a matter between them and God - so why is it too difficult to let them choose to demonstrate their love towards God as they have chosen for thmselves? If you cannot share whatever you're doing, don't you think something is terribly wrong in your demanding others should share what they're doing? Why ask about others when you feel constrained to keep your own from being queried?

ogajim:

I don't remember registering a company I mean church so building a school is kinda out of my reach for now but if that is his will for me, I will do that as well.

Since you didn't remember doing such, leave those who are doing it to carry on their work for God's sake. They also don't remember seeking your permission to effect what God called them to do.

ogajim:

The main thing here is educating others who felt it but didn't know what to make of the message, it's like reaching out to those who are under the "curse, bondage, trap, etc" to let them know they're not alone. It took a major move for me to review what I had been hearing and realizing that I was being taken for a ride ( and to the cleaners) so I had to hit the breaks and studied ( I will continue to) the standard operating manual he bequeathed to us - The Holy Bible.
We love you sister girl, no offense. Serve God only and may his grace be with you.

I also had a major move from an anti-tithing position to a tithing persuasion. What was more serious for me was the discovery that on both sides of the debate people have said very diabolic things across the fence, and on both sides people have lied. Rather than join any bandwagon to "educate" people with accusations and more falsehood, we can share with them simple issues, encourage them to tithe where they can, and let them make their choices freely - whether to do so or decline from doing so. Trying to constantly heckle tithers with unnecessary claims is bad enough for us as believers. What we can do is share to encourage, not constantly seek to justify unnecessary accusations and to be "busy-bodies in other people's affairs" (cf. 1 Tim. 5:13) - quite often, when asked to produce our own evidence for our own labours for God, there's nothing to show. We should be more of "do-ers" than mere "talkers, accusers," or "complainers".

No offences; but as you serve God, encourage others and let Him be glorified in all things.

PG.1

I am in no way accusing you of any wrong doing, I do think you hit the nail in the head when you implied there was no need to accuse one another but to work together towards the common good in this case, our work in the Lord's vineyard. I believe anyone can give as his/her heart desires, it is the use of wrong tactics by the "pimps" that I despise because like I stated, I continue to fellowship with others and continue to see the twisting and being someone who has NEVER done anything because others are doing it, I will not be moved by the lies and will counsel those who need it not to be fooled as well (if they seek the counsel that is).
I have picked up some good things from this back and forth so i guess it is kinda worthwhile, we have to help those in need as Christians.