frosbel:

I wonder !!

Babel is truly what most churches are today, total confusion, if it's not the pagan trinity, it's speaking in supposedly angelic mysterious tongues , or worst still eternal live roasting of human beings in a furnace of burning sulphur.

Mystery Babylon indeed.

The all wise-God does not give birth to dummy children,lemme go back and extract an interesting story in response to your post.Relax and enjoy.

I once heard an evangelist tell of an experience he had in a pastor's home. As he walked into a room unexpectedly, he heard the pastor's twelve-year-old daughter just throwing a fit. She had lost her temper and was bawling her mother out.
Suddenly she looked up and saw the evangelist. She stopped and put her head in her hands and began to cry. She said, "I am so sorry you saw me act this way and heard what I said."He said to her, "Honey, there is One who is greater than I am who heard you and saw you act that way. You are a Christian, aren't you?" "Yes," was her tearful reply.
"Filled with the Spirit?" he asked. "Yes," she answered. "Well, the Holy Ghost is in you, and He knows what you said and how you acted," he told her. "Just repent and the Lord will forgive you." They prayed together and she repented.


Then in a little while she began to worship God in tongues.This evangelist then said to her, "There is one secret that will help you curb your temper. If you will just pray and worship God every day in tongues, it will help you to be conscious of the indwelling Presence of the Holy Ghost.Then he said, "If you will remember that the Holy Spirit is in you, you won't act that way. You were ashamed because I saw you lose your temper. You were embarrassed because I heard
you talk the way you did to your mother. But the Holy Ghost is greater than I am, and He saw and heard you too."


Some years later when this same evangelist returned to preach at that church, the pastor's daughter told him, "I have never forgotten what you said. Every day for the past few years I have prayed and worshipped God in tongues, and I have never lost my temper again."


Unfortunately, we all know people who have been filled with the Holy Ghost, yet still lose their temper and say and do things they shouldn't. It is because they have been walking in the flesh instead of in the Spirit, and they haven't been fellowshipping with God as they should have been.


It is so easy, when you are not conscious of God's Presence, to become aggravated and easily exasperated, and to allow yourself to lose your temper. But if you will take time to fellowship with God by speaking in tongues, you can continually be conscious of God's indwelling.

Frank4YAHWEH: "Prayer language"? When Yahshua instructed his disciples and the Apostles to commune ["pray"] to our Heavenly FATHER and Creator IN HEAVEN [known as "The Model Prayer"] when he himself was HERE ON EARTH, he did not instruct them to speak or commune ["pray"] in an "unknown" or even another language. Yahshua most likely communed with his and our FATHER Yahweh in the Hebrew language, since this is the language the he spoke from Heaven to the Apostle Shaul.

Speaking in tongues eliminates the possibility of selfishness entering our prayer life. For instance, if I pray a prayer out of my own mind and out of my own thinking, it may be unscriptural. It may be selfish. Too many times our prayers are like the old farmer who always prayed, "God bless me, my wife, my son John, his wife — us four and no more."


Paul wrote to the Church at Rome, ". . . we know not what we should pray for as we ought. . ."(Rom. 8:26). He didn't say we didn't know how to pray, because we do know how we are to pray. We are to pray to the Father in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:23,24).

That is the correct way to pray. But just because I know how to pray doesn't mean that I know what to pray for as I ought. So Paul said, ". . . we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself [ Himself] maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Rom. 8:26).



P. C. Nelson, a Greek scholar and the founder of Southwestern Bible Institute, said that the Greek in Romans 8:26 literally reads, ". . . the Holy Ghost maketh intercession for us in groanings that cannot be uttered in articulate speech."

Articulate speech means your regular kind of speech. He went on to point out that the Greek stresses that this not only includes groanings escaping your lips in prayer, but also praying in other tongues. That agrees with what Paul said in First Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth. . . ." The Amplified Bible says, ". . . my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays. . .."


People should be careful making fun of tongues, because when people make fun of tongues,they are making fun of the Holy Ghost. When you pray in tongues, it is your spirit praying by the Holy Spirit within you. It is the Holy Spirit within giving you the utterance, and you are speaking from out of your spirit. You do the talking; the Holy Spirit gives the utterance.


By praying with groanings and with other tongues, the Holy Spirit is helping you to pray according to the will of God — to pray as things should be prayed for. This isn't something the Holy Ghost does apart from you. He doesn't groan or speak in tongues apart from you. Those groanings that cannot be uttered in articulate speech come from inside of you — from your spirit — and escape your own lips.


The Holy Ghost is not going to do your praying for you. He is sent to dwell in us as a Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby (John 14:16 Amp.). The Holy Spirit is not responsible for our prayer life. He is sent to help us pray. Speaking with other tongues is praying as the Spirit gives utterance. It is Spirit-directed praying. It eliminates the possibility of selfishness in our prayers.


Many times when people have prayed out of their own minds, they have prayed for circumstances to change that were actually not the will of God and were not best. If God's people want things a certain way, even if it isn't best for them or is not God's will, He will often permit it.

For example, God did not want Israel to have a king, but they wanted one, so He permitted them to have one (1 Sam. 8:4-7). But a king was not His perfect will for them.


Therefore, speaking in tongues eliminates selfishness and praying outside of the will of God because when we pray in tongues, we are praying the perfect will of God.

Sal C: Such group does not exist anywhere.

When I say speaking in tongues is not for everyone, it means there is still possibility of some people having the genuine gift of speaking in tongues.

Am even surprised that some churches today try to teach their members how to speak in tongues thereby making it look like something you can learn and no longer God's gift to whom he desires.

I understand your school of thoughts.There are those who purport to believe in speaking in tongues but do not feel that tongues are necessary for all believers. However, the baptism in the Holy Spirit is for all those who believe(Acts 2:38,39); therefore, speaking in tongues as an evidence of the Spirit's infilling is also for all those who believe.

Those who say that speaking in tongues is not necessary for all believers use the scripture in
First Corinthians 12:30 which says, ". . . do all speak with tongues?. . ." to prove their argument.

However, one could take a part of a verse of Scripture, or even one entire verse of Scripture out of its setting and try to prove anything with it. But we have to read the entire context to see what the writer is talking about.

To learn what Paul is talking about in First Corinthians 12:30, ". . . do all speak with tongues? .. ." we must read the entire context in First Corinthians chapter 12.

Having done that, then let's look specifically at verses 27 through 30.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:27-30
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first APOSTLES, secondarily PROPHETS,thirdly TEACHERS, after that MIRACLES, then GIFTS OF HEALINGS, HELPS,GOVERNMENTS,DIVERSITIES OF TONGUES.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?


What is Paul talking about in this passage of Scripture? He is talking about ministry gifts, not spiritual gifts.

Ministry gifts are those people in the Body of Christ who are called by God to stand in the fivefold ministry (Eph. 4:11,12). These apostles, prophets, teachers, and so forth, listed here in First Corinthians 12:27 and 28 are ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

For example, first, "apostles" is not a spiritual gift, but it is an office or a ministry gift.Second, "prophets" is not a spiritual gift, but it is a ministry gift. Third, "teachers," the office of a teacher, is not a spiritual gift, but a ministry gift, or one called to minister to the Body of Christ.

Therefore, in this passage of Scripture in First Corinthians 12:27-30, Paul is talking about ministry gifts, or those called to the fivefold ministry, not about spiritual gifts.


In order to see the difference between ministry gifts and spiritual gifts, let's look at the nine spiritual gifts, or gifts of the Spirit. Paul lists them in the first part of this chapter.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:8-10
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the WORD OF WISDOM; to another the WORD OF
KNOWLEDGE by the same Spirit;
9 To another FAITH [special faith] by the same Spirit; to another the GIFTS OF HEALING
by the same Spirit;
10 To another the WORKING OF MIRACLES; to another PROPHECY; to another
DISCERNING OF SPIRITS; to another DIVERS KINDS OF TONGUES; to another the INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES.


It is certainly true that gifts of the Spirit may be manifested through the laity, not just through ministry gifts or those called to the fivefold ministry, because the Bible does say, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given TO EVERY MAN to profit withal" (1Cor. 12:7).


However, there are those in the fivefold ministry who are especially equipped with certain gifts of the Spirit in order to fulfill their office or function in the Body of Christ. We do not call those people spiritual gifts or gifts of the Spirit; they are ministries or ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

Paul talks about ministry gifts in writing to the Church at Ephesus. Paul said that when Jesus ascended on High, ". . . he led captivity captive, and gave GIFTS unto men" (Eph. 4).What were those gifts? Paul goes on to list them. They are ministry gifts Jesus set in the Church.

EPHESIANS 4:11,12
11 And he gave some, APOSTLES; and some, PROPHETS; and some, EVANGELISTS;
and some, PASTORS and TEACHERS;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the
body of Christ

Paul was talking about ministering in tongues in a public assembly with interpretation as a ministry gift, and not everyone does that. Ministering in tongues in public assembly with interpretation on more of a continual basis denotes the ministry gift of diversities of tongues most closely related to the office of the prophet, and not every believer has that gift. This is not referring to a believer who is used in tongues or interpretation of tongues on an occasional
basis Of course, every believer can have the gift of speaking in other tongues for private devotion.

The gifts of the Spirit are for all believers. But ministry gifts only refer to those who are called to
the fivefold ministry.(culled from Kenneth. E. Hagin "The Holy Spirit and His Gifts".

Chibuebem: you and your people have come again oga frosbel. Speaking in unknown tongues is an important part of prayer and spiritual growth. Its just that it can be misused sometimes when the rules laid down for it in the bible are broken.

Very much on POINT bro...we don't use Babylonian systems to measure spiritual principles and that is why the preaching of the cross is FOOLISHNESS to those who are perishing. I can see frosbel trying so hard to understand God by using grammers . I pray God help him.I'd rather stick to what the bible says here in: Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with
the Holy Ghost, and BEGAN TO SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES, as the Spirit gave them
utterance." than their negative comments.

In addition, in this days of turmoil and angst, speaking in tongues in the name of Yashua, is needed to keep you sane.

Contrary to what may be a common perception, studies suggest that people who speak in tongues rarely suffer from mental problems. A recent study of nearly 1,000 evangelical Christians in England found that those who engaged in the practice were more emotionally stable than those who did not. Researchers have identified at least two forms of the practice, one ecstatic and frenzied, the other subdued and nearly silent.

In addition, in this days of turmoil and angst, speaking in tongues in the name of Yashua, is needed to keep you sane.

Contrary to what may be a common perception, studies suggest that people who speak in tongues rarely suffer from mental problems. A recent study of nearly 1,000 evangelical Christians in England found that those who engaged in the practice were more emotionally stable than those who did not. Researchers have identified at least two forms of the practice, one ecstatic and frenzied, the other subdued and nearly silent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/health/07brain.html?_r=0&gwh=CD0D58E3747B2EE4AC200B3E5FA268F7

I believe Frosbel is very right on this one.

Tongues were unique in the Corinthian Church as we never see again in any of the other churches tongues even mentioned. We only find tongues at this carnal Church at Corinth, and that should tell us something.

Paul's main concern in this particular church was the issue of love, they lacked love in this church. Paul made it clear that speaking in tongue does not edify the church but self, he encouraged the church to seek the greatest gift(love).

I Corinthians 14:1

"Follow after charity, (love) and desire spiritual gifts, (don't request them specifically; ask the Lord to use you) but rather that ye may prophesy."

Now remember the word `prophesy' is not being able to tell the future as we think of Daniel or Isaiah, but to simply speak the Word of God. Share the Word, that's what it is to prophesy, and that's what every believer should desire.

"Lord give me that ability to just share your Word with people, whether it's believers who need to be taught, or the unbeliever who is still out there in darkness, Lord give us that opportunity to speak forth the Word. "

shdemidemi: I believe Frosbel is very right on this one.

Tongues were unique in the Corinthian Church as we never see again in any of the other churches tongues even mentioned. We only find tongues at this carnal Church at Corinth, and that should tell us something.

Paul's main concern in this particular church was the issue of love, they lacked love in this church. Paul made it clear that speaking in tongue does not edify the church but self, he encouraged the church to seek the greatest gift(love).

I Corinthians 14:1

"Follow after charity, (love) and desire spiritual gifts, (don't request them specifically; ask the Lord to use you) but rather that ye may prophesy."

Now remember the word `prophesy' is not being able to tell the future as we think of Daniel or Isaiah, but to simply speak the Word of God. Share the Word, that's what it is to prophesy, and that's what every believer should desire.

"Lord give me that ability to just share your Word with people, whether it's believers who need to be taught, or the unbeliever who is still out there in darkness, Lord give us that opportunity to speak forth the Word. "

Did you actually go through all the relevant scriptures i quoted? How comes a lover of the Pauline epistles will believe everything about what he says including the deity of Christ but when it comes to this issue,you re saying the contrary. I can understand frosbel and frank4yahwehs views but Not you who claim to know God and the ways of God.

Bidam: The all wise-God does not give birth to dummy children,lemme go back and extract an interesting story in response to your post.Relax and enjoy.

I once heard an evangelist tell of an experience he had in a pastor's home. As he walked into a room unexpectedly, he heard the pastor's twelve-year-old daughter just throwing a fit. She had lost her temper and was bawling her mother out.
Suddenly she looked up and saw the evangelist. She stopped and put her head in her hands and began to cry. She said, "I am so sorry you saw me act this way and heard what I said."He said to her, "Honey, there is One who is greater than I am who heard you and saw you act that way. You are a Christian, aren't you?" "Yes," was her tearful reply.
"Filled with the Spirit?" he asked. "Yes," she answered. "Well, the Holy Ghost is in you, and He knows what you said and how you acted," he told her. "Just repent and the Lord will forgive you." They prayed together and she repented.


Then in a little while she began to worship God in tongues.This evangelist then said to her, "There is one secret that will help you curb your temper. If you will just pray and worship God every day in tongues, it will help you to be conscious of the indwelling Presence of the Holy Ghost.Then he said, "If you will remember that the Holy Spirit is in you, you won't act that way. You were ashamed because I saw you lose your temper. You were embarrassed because I heard
you talk the way you did to your mother. But the Holy Ghost is greater than I am, and He saw and heard you too."


Some years later when this same evangelist returned to preach at that church, the pastor's daughter told him, "I have never forgotten what you said. Every day for the past few years I have prayed and worshipped God in tongues, and I have never lost my temper again."


Unfortunately, we all know people who have been filled with the Holy Ghost, yet still lose their temper and say and do things they shouldn't. It is because they have been walking in the flesh instead of in the Spirit, and they haven't been fellowshipping with God as they should have been.


It is so easy, when you are not conscious of God's Presence, to become aggravated and easily exasperated, and to allow yourself to lose your temper. But if you will take time to fellowship with God by speaking in tongues, you can continually be conscious of God's indwelling.

yeah. I read it in one of Kenneth E. Hagins books

shdemidemi: I believe Frosbel is very right on this one.

Tongues were unique in the Corinthian Church as we never see again in any of the other churches tongues even mentioned. We only find tongues at this carnal Church at Corinth, and that should tell us something.

Paul's main concern in this particular church was the issue of love, they lacked love in this church. Paul made it clear that speaking in tongue does not edify the church but self, he encouraged the church to seek the greatest gift(love).

I Corinthians 14:1

"Follow after charity, (love) and desire spiritual gifts, (don't request them specifically; ask the Lord to use you) but rather that ye may prophesy."

Now remember the word `prophesy' is not being able to tell the future as we think of Daniel or Isaiah, but to simply speak the Word of God. Share the Word, that's what it is to prophesy, and that's what every believer should desire.

"Lord give me that ability to just share your Word with people, whether it's believers who need to be taught, or the unbeliever who is still out there in darkness, Lord give us that opportunity to speak forth the Word. "

you're segregating the church again sir.

Bidam: Did you actually go through all the relevant scriptures i quoted? How comes a lover of the Pauline epistles will believe everything about what he says including the deity of Christ but when it comes to this issue,you re saying the contrary. I can understand frosbel and frank4yahwehs views but Not you who claim to know God and the ways of God.

Bro, please take your time to go through the book again. Whenever you see the word "tongues" (plural) it always means a known language. A speakable, reducible to writing, language. when there is no plural, speaks to those non-phonetic sounds, and that's all they were, just sounds, that no one could reduce to writing (No one can pick out a single phonetic sound that could be reduced to writing in the case of tongue) .

Amazing isn't it? And so they are unintelligible and that's why Paul said that if they are going to use it, they have to have someone to interpret or translate it, otherwise leave it alone.


I Corinthians 14:18

"I thank my God, I speak with tongues (plural) more than ye all:"

Now that was early in his ministry. And from what we can gather from the time he comes to the end of his ministry, he no longer practices it either. Like I said earlier you would not find the apostle talk about tongues in a church like the one in Thessalonica. A church paul was very happy with, they had love, faith but they had lil issues with Hope.

Chibuebem: you're segregating the church again sir.

I am not my brother, I believe I am speaking the truth, you don't have to agree with me brother. You can definitely re-visit the book again just to be sure you have the truth yourself.

shdemidemi:

Bro, please take your time to go through the book again. Whenever you see the word "tongues" (plural) it always means a known language. A speakable, reducible to writing, language. when there is no plural, speaks to those non-phonetic sounds, and that's all they were, just sounds, that no one could reduce to writing (No one can pick out a single phonetic sound that could be reduced to writing in the case of tongue) .

Amazing isn't it? And so they are unintelligible and that's why Paul said that if they are going to use it, they have to have someone to interpret or translate it, otherwise leave it alone.


I Corinthians 14:18

"I thank my God, I speak with tongues (plural) more than ye all:"

Now that was early in his ministry. And from what we can gather from the time he comes to the end of his ministry, he no longer practices it either. Like I said earlier you would not find the apostle talk about tongues in a church like the one in Thessalonica. A church paul was very happy with, they had love, faith but they had lil issues with Hope.

You are wrong here bro..the Corinthians had a superabundance of speaking with tongues in the public assembly. It seemed that when these Corinthians came to church, all of them wanted to speak in tongues at the same time. It is interesting to note, however, if everyone is speaking in tongues all at one time, the entire church congregation cannot be edified or built up, for no one would understand what is being said (1Cor. 14:2-19).

Therefore, Paul instructed the Corinthians that in public meetings only two or three people should speak, and another should interpret (1 Cor. 14:27). Also, if there wasn't an interpreter present, they should keep silent in the church (1Cor. 14:28).

Paul didn't say that the Corinthians had received the wrong gift. They had received the right gift, but they were just so thrilled and exuberant that they wanted to talk in tongues all at once.They needed instruction on how to use this gift.

You see, if we are all praising God, it is fine for all of us to praise God in tongues altogether and all at the same time. But it would certainly be wrong if everyone started talking in tongues while the preacher was trying to preach or teach. And it would not be right for someone to spend an hour speaking in tongues without any interpretation. The speaker would be edified,but the listener wouldn't get anything out of it.

1 CORINTHIANS 14:18,19
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 YET IN THE CHURCH I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might TEACH others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.



Some folks, however, have made a mountain out of a molehill, so to speak, in this area. They claim that Paul was trying to tell the Corinthians not to speak with tongues at all. This couldn't have been his intention, however, for notice what he said in verse 18: "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" (1 Cor. 14:18).

Paul was saying that it would be better for him to stand before the congregation and speak five words in his own language so people could understand him and he could teach others, than it would be to speak ten thousand words in tongues that were uninterpreted.

But to correct one error, Paul would not suggest we make another by abandoning speaking in tongues altogether. We are just to get instruction regarding the public use of this gift. We are told to covet earnestly the best gifts.And to say this gifts had faded when Paul ended his ministry is laughable because no where in scriptures was that account recorded.

What was the purpose of Paul's letter?

How does the intent of the letter relate with speaking in tongue?

What exactly is the the reason and purpose for the tongues given on the day of Pentecost?

Sunglow: .So how do you communicate with God?

I communicate with Father Yahweh through His inspired prophetic word with it not being added unto or taken away from. Scripture clearly teaches that we are to LIVE by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of Father Yahweh and that the sword of the spirit which is His word is an integral part of the armour that we are to put on to fight off the wiles of the devil. This is also the weapon that Yahshua is said to use in Revelation when it speaks of the sharp double-edged sword that proceeds from his mouth. I also communicate ["pray"] to Him in the English language that I speak in accordance with the exemplary so-called "Lord's Prayer." that Yahshua instructed his disciple and the Apostles with. I do not believe in quoting this example as an actual "prayer" as many do, since I believe that it is more an outline of things to communicate to Father Yahweh about, so I use my own words in English asking the things within this outline. I also never commune with Father Yahweh in public.

Nowhere in Scripture am I ever asked to speak in other languages or the false and demonic "UNKNOWN" or 'PRAYER" tongues taught by the charismatic Penticostal groups in this last time period.

[quote author=Bidam]

Bidam: I understand your school of thoughts.There are those who purport to believe in speaking in tongues but do not feel that tongues are necessary for all believers. However, the baptism in the Holy Spirit is for all those who believe(Acts 2:38,39); therefore, speaking in tongues as an evidence of the Spirit's infilling is also for all those who believe.

Those who say that speaking in tongues is not necessary for all believers use the scripture in
First Corinthians 12:30 which says, ". . . do all speak with tongues?. . ." to prove their argument.

However, one could take a part of a verse of Scripture, or even one entire verse of Scripture out of its setting and try to prove anything with it. But we have to read the entire context to see what the writer is talking about.

To learn what Paul is talking about in First Corinthians 12:30, ". . . do all speak with tongues? .. ." we must read the entire context in First Corinthians chapter 12.

Having done that, then let's look specifically at verses 27 through 30.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:27-30
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first APOSTLES, secondarily PROPHETS,thirdly TEACHERS, after that MIRACLES, then GIFTS OF HEALINGS, HELPS,GOVERNMENTS,DIVERSITIES OF TONGUES.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?


What is Paul talking about in this passage of Scripture? He is talking about ministry gifts, not spiritual gifts.

Ministry gifts are those people in the Body of Christ who are called by God to stand in the fivefold ministry (Eph. 4:11,12). These apostles, prophets, teachers, and so forth, listed here in First Corinthians 12:27 and 28 are ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

For example, first, "apostles" is not a spiritual gift, but it is an office or a ministry gift.Second, "prophets" is not a spiritual gift, but it is a ministry gift. Third, "teachers," the office of a teacher, is not a spiritual gift, but a ministry gift, or one called to minister to the Body of Christ.

Therefore, in this passage of Scripture in First Corinthians 12:27-30, Paul is talking about ministry gifts, or those called to the fivefold ministry, not about spiritual gifts.


In order to see the difference between ministry gifts and spiritual gifts, let's look at the nine spiritual gifts, or gifts of the Spirit. Paul lists them in the first part of this chapter.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:8-10
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the WORD OF WISDOM; to another the WORD OF
KNOWLEDGE by the same Spirit;
9 To another FAITH [special faith] by the same Spirit; to another the GIFTS OF HEALING
by the same Spirit;
10 To another the WORKING OF MIRACLES; to another PROPHECY; to another
DISCERNING OF SPIRITS; to another DIVERS KINDS OF TONGUES; to another the INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES.


It is certainly true that gifts of the Spirit may be manifested through the laity, not just through ministry gifts or those called to the fivefold ministry, because the Bible does say, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given TO EVERY MAN to profit withal" (1Cor. 12:7).


However, there are those in the fivefold ministry who are especially equipped with certain gifts of the Spirit in order to fulfill their office or function in the Body of Christ. We do not call those people spiritual gifts or gifts of the Spirit; they are ministries or ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

Paul talks about ministry gifts in writing to the Church at Ephesus. Paul said that when Jesus ascended on High, ". . . he led captivity captive, and gave GIFTS unto men" (Eph. 4).What were those gifts? Paul goes on to list them. They are ministry gifts Jesus set in the Church.

EPHESIANS 4:11,12
11 And he gave some, APOSTLES; and some, PROPHETS; and some, EVANGELISTS;
and some, PASTORS and TEACHERS;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the
body of Christ

Paul was talking about ministering in tongues in a public assembly with interpretation as a ministry gift, and not everyone does that. Ministering in tongues in public assembly with interpretation on more of a continual basis denotes the ministry gift of diversities of tongues most closely related to the office of the prophet, and not every believer has that gift. This is not referring to a believer who is used in tongues or interpretation of tongues on an occasional
basis Of course, every believer can have the gift of speaking in other tongues for private devotion.

The gifts of the Spirit are for all believers. But ministry gifts only refer to those who are called to
the fivefold ministry.(culled from Kenneth. E. Hagin "The Holy Spirit and His Gifts".

You said "Speaking in tongues eliminates the possibility of selfishness entering our prayer life." Now where in Scripture did you find such an instruction concerning speaking in tongues? The rest of what you teach here is also never taught in Scripture, but is simply a perversion of what Scripture actually says.

Bidam: I understand your school of thoughts.There are those who purport to believe in speaking in tongues but do not feel that tongues are necessary for all believers. However, the baptism in the Holy Spirit is for all those who believe(Acts 2:38,39); therefore, speaking in tongues as an evidence of the Spirit's infilling is also for all those who believe.

Those who say that speaking in tongues is not necessary for all believers use the scripture in
First Corinthians 12:30 which says, ". . . do all speak with tongues?. . ." to prove their argument.

However, one could take a part of a verse of Scripture, or even one entire verse of Scripture out of its setting and try to prove anything with it. But we have to read the entire context to see what the writer is talking about.

To learn what Paul is talking about in First Corinthians 12:30, ". . . do all speak with tongues? .. ." we must read the entire context in First Corinthians chapter 12.

Having done that, then let's look specifically at verses 27 through 30.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:27-30
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first APOSTLES, secondarily PROPHETS,thirdly TEACHERS, after that MIRACLES, then GIFTS OF HEALINGS, HELPS,GOVERNMENTS,DIVERSITIES OF TONGUES.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?


What is Paul talking about in this passage of Scripture? He is talking about ministry gifts, not spiritual gifts.

Ministry gifts are those people in the Body of Christ who are called by God to stand in the fivefold ministry (Eph. 4:11,12). These apostles, prophets, teachers, and so forth, listed here in First Corinthians 12:27 and 28 are ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

For example, first, "apostles" is not a spiritual gift, but it is an office or a ministry gift.Second, "prophets" is not a spiritual gift, but it is a ministry gift. Third, "teachers," the office of a teacher, is not a spiritual gift, but a ministry gift, or one called to minister to the Body of Christ.

Therefore, in this passage of Scripture in First Corinthians 12:27-30, Paul is talking about ministry gifts, or those called to the fivefold ministry, not about spiritual gifts.


In order to see the difference between ministry gifts and spiritual gifts, let's look at the nine spiritual gifts, or gifts of the Spirit. Paul lists them in the first part of this chapter.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:8-10
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the WORD OF WISDOM; to another the WORD OF
KNOWLEDGE by the same Spirit;
9 To another FAITH [special faith] by the same Spirit; to another the GIFTS OF HEALING
by the same Spirit;
10 To another the WORKING OF MIRACLES; to another PROPHECY; to another
DISCERNING OF SPIRITS; to another DIVERS KINDS OF TONGUES; to another the INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES.


It is certainly true that gifts of the Spirit may be manifested through the laity, not just through ministry gifts or those called to the fivefold ministry, because the Bible does say, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given TO EVERY MAN to profit withal" (1Cor. 12:7).


However, there are those in the fivefold ministry who are especially equipped with certain gifts of the Spirit in order to fulfill their office or function in the Body of Christ. We do not call those people spiritual gifts or gifts of the Spirit; they are ministries or ministry gifts that God has set in the Church.

Paul talks about ministry gifts in writing to the Church at Ephesus. Paul said that when Jesus ascended on High, ". . . he led captivity captive, and gave GIFTS unto men" (Eph. 4).What were those gifts? Paul goes on to list them. They are ministry gifts Jesus set in the Church.

EPHESIANS 4:11,12
11 And he gave some, APOSTLES; and some, PROPHETS; and some, EVANGELISTS;
and some, PASTORS and TEACHERS;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the
body of Christ

Paul was talking about ministering in tongues in a public assembly with interpretation as a ministry gift, and not everyone does that. Ministering in tongues in public assembly with interpretation on more of a continual basis denotes the ministry gift of diversities of tongues most closely related to the office of the prophet, and not every believer has that gift. This is not referring to a believer who is used in tongues or interpretation of tongues on an occasional
basis Of course, every believer can have the gift of speaking in other tongues for private devotion.

The gifts of the Spirit are for all believers. But ministry gifts only refer to those who are called to
the fivefold ministry.(culled from Kenneth. E. Hagin "The Holy Spirit and His Gifts".

You said "Speaking in tongues eliminates the possibility of selfishness entering our prayer life." Now where in Scripture did you find such an instruction concerning speaking in tongues? The rest of what you teach here is also never taught in Scripture, but is simply a perversion of what Scripture actually teaches.

shdemidemi: What was the purpose of Paul's letter?

How does the intent of the letter relate with speaking in tongue?

What exactly is the the reason and purpose for the tongues given on the day of Pentecost?

What is the purpose of scriptures? If the scriptures on the pages of my bibles are fables and myth,then it's best i discard it and become an atheist. I am telling with all humility and authority,my conscience bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit that tongues are never done away with.They are still relevant in the Body of Christ just like other gifts and manifestation of the Holy Spirit and i pray you enjoy this supernatural gifts.It's not about your theology and philosophy.It's about the Spirit of the LIVING God.

Frank4YAHWEH:

I communicate with Father Yahweh through His inspired prophetic word with it not being added unto or taken away from. Scripture clearly teaches that we are to LIVE by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of Father Yahweh and that the sword of the spirit which is His word is an integral part of the armour that we are to put on to fight off the wiles of the devil. This is also the weapon that Yahshua is said to use in Revelation when it speaks of the sharp double-edged sword that proceeds from his mouth. I also communicate ["pray"] to Him in the English language that I speak in accordance with the exemplary so-called "Lord's Prayer." that Yahshua instructed his disciple and the Apostles with. I do not believe in quoting this example as an actual "prayer" as many do, since I believe that it is more an outline of things to communicate to Father Yahweh about, so I use my own words in English asking the things within this outline. I also never commune with Father Yahweh in public.

Nowhere in Scripture am I ever asked to speak in other languages or the false and demonic "UNKNOWN" or 'PRAYER" tongues taught by the charismatic Penticostal groups in this last time period.

Scriptures never called it a false demonic prayer tongues,that is you adding to sacred scriptures.Let God be true and every man be a liar.If you don't understand something why not pray to your God about it instead of displaying your ignorance here? peradventure God might have mercy on you and show you your errors.

Frank4YAHWEH:

You said "Speaking in tongues eliminates the possibility of selfishness entering our prayer life." Now where in Scripture did you find such an instruction concerning speaking in tongues? The rest of what you teach here is also never taught in Scripture, but is simply a perversion of what Scripture actually teaches.

Romans 8:26 literally reads, ". . . the Holy Ghost maketh intercession for us in
groanings that cannot be uttered in articulate speech."

Paul said in First Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in an
unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth. . . ." The Amplified Bible says, ". . . my spirit [by the Holy
Spirit within me] prays. . .."

Paul wrote to the Church at Rome, ". . . we know not what we should pray for as we ought. . ."(Rom. 8:26). He didn't say we didn't know how to pray, because we do know how we are to pray. We are to pray to the Father in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:23,24).

That is the correct way to pray. But just because I know how to pray doesn't mean that I know what to pray for as I ought. So Paul said, ". . . we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself [ Himself] maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Rom. 8:26).

The Bible says, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifi-eth himself. . ."(1Cor. 14:4).


Jude 20 also links praying in tongues with building yourself up spiritually.
JUDE 20
20 But ye, beloved, BUILDING UP YOURSELVES on your most holy faith, PRAYING IN
THE HOLY GHOST.

Bidam:

Romans 8:26 literally reads, ". . . the Holy Ghost maketh intercession for us in
groanings that cannot be uttered in articulate speech."

Paul said in First Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in an
unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth. . . ." The Amplified Bible says, ". . . my spirit [by the Holy
Spirit within me] prays. . .."

Paul wrote to the Church at Rome, ". . . we know not what we should pray for as we ought. . ."(Rom. 8:26). He didn't say we didn't know how to pray, because we do know how we are to pray. We are to pray to the Father in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ (John 16:23,24).

That is the correct way to pray. But just because I know how to pray doesn't mean that I know what to pray for as I ought. So Paul said, ". . . we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself [ Himself] maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Rom. 8:26).

The Bible says, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifi-eth himself. . ."(1Cor. 14:4).


Jude 20 also links praying in tongues with building yourself up spiritually.
JUDE 20
20 But ye, beloved, BUILDING UP YOURSELVES on your most holy faith, PRAYING IN
THE HOLY GHOST.

I was not talking about your false "UNKNOWN gibberish prayer tongues" doctrine, but about speaking in actual languages. Communicating ["praying"] in the spirit is not speaking gibberish!


Shaul did not say in First Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in an
UNKNOWN tongue, my spirit prayeth. . . ."

As I had made known before, the word "UNKNOWN" is an improper addition to the text and should read:

"For if I pray in another language, my spirit prayeth. . . ."

He is not speaking here of speaking in a language that no one knows, since he conveys that he is COMMUNICATING ["PRAYING"] in another language. One can not comnmunicate with someone in a language that they do not know. You again are taking Scripture out of context of what is actually being said, since you left out waht Shaul when on the say:

... What is it then? I will pray (COMMUNICATE) with the spirit, and I will pray (COMMUNICATE) WITH THE UNDERSTANING ALSO also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing WITH THE UNDERSTANDING ALSO. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

How can one understand what you say when you are only speaking gibberish?

Bidam: Scriptures never called it a false demonic prayer tongues,that is you adding to sacred scriptures.Let God be true and every man be a liar.If you don't understand something why not pray to your God about it instead of displaying your ignorance here? peradventure God might have mercy on you and show you your errors.

Whatever teaching is contrary to what is taught in Scripture is demonic and that in turn would make your "UNKNOWN tongues" doctrine "false demonic prayer tongues."

Frank4YAHWEH:

I was not talking about your false "UNKNOWN gibberish prayer tongues" doctrine, but about speaking in actual languages. Communicating ["praying"] in the spirit is not speaking gibberish!


Shaul did not say in First Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in an
UNKNOWN tongue, my spirit prayeth. . . ."

As I had made known before, the word "UNKNOWN" is an improper addition to the text and should read:

"For if I pray in another language, my spirit prayeth. . . ."

He is not speaking here of speaking in a language that no one knows, since he conveys that he is COMMUNICATING ["PRAYING"] in another language. One can not comnmunicate with someone in a language that they do not know. You again are taking Scripture out of context of what is actually being said, since you left out waht Shaul when on the say:

... What is it then? I will pray (COMMUNICATE) with the spirit, and I will pray (COMMUNICATE) WITH THE UNDERSTANING ALSO also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing WITH THE UNDERSTANDING ALSO. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

How can one understand what you say when you are only speaking gibberish?

Thank God,you brought that scripture up, so what is your personal devotional prayer like when you go into the closet shut the door and communicate with the spirit and with understanding? I bet you won't last ten minutes praying in English language except maybe you imitate the pagans who keep babbling thinking they will be heard because of there many words.I bet with this kind of your prayer you couldn't outlast Jesus the master who prayed all night to God.(Luke 6:12). But thank God for the Holy Spirit, we are able to pray all manner of prayers and travail for the kingdom of God to be birthed in the hearts of men. That is why i can't do without the Holy Spirit sir,cos i am empty without His help.

Prayer is a spiritual activity.The force of which is felt in the realm that our eyes cannot see to produce results in the visible realms and that is why we utter words with groaning that cannot be articulated in known language by the help of the Holy Spirit.James says the effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man makes tremendous power available dynamic in its workings.I bet you have never entered into a dimension of prayer warfare before and that's why you are belittling the Holy Spirit.

Praying in the spirit is actually praying in tongues and this is more than a religious exercise of fulfilling righteousness through the form of rituals exhibited by you, Catholics and Muslims alike. Prayer has mommentum.It is literally spiritual dynamite that can wreak havoc on the dark forces of the spirit realm.I can understand why satan is not happy about tongues.Why would he?
Let's look at how Jesus prayed to fulfill the will of the father.


During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.Hebrews 5:7

i also can bet my last dime that you have not been able to enter into this dimension of prayers before.With all humility i make bold to say i have,by the help of the Holy Spirit through tongues. You need the baptism of the holy Spirit bro...

Frank4YAHWEH:

Whatever teaching is contrary to what is taught in Scripture is demonic and that in turn would make your "UNKNOWN tongues" doctrine "false demonic prayer tongues."

Your opinions bro..not scriptures..Keep up with your religious rituals.

Bidam: Your opinions bro..not scriptures. Keep up with your religious rituals.

No, not my opinion, since "UNKNOWN tongues" is not taught in Scripture. Scripture does not teach anything about "dimension of prayers."

Speaking In Tongues (Languages)
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/Franklin4YAHWEH/Tongues.html

This idiosyncratic interpretations of the scripture is exactly same reason the Roman catholic church is accused of prohibitting everyone from indescriminate reading and interpretation of the scripture. Today, with the same bible from different readers and interpreters come varieties and variation of concepts and perceptions, thus denominations teaching different things every where; with each of us teaching obstinately what he feels is his best understnading of what the scripture is saying. God help us!

So-brit:
This idiosyncratic interpretations of the scripture is exactly same reason the Roman catholic church is accused of prohibitting everyone from indescriminate reading and interpretation of the scripture. Today, with the same bible from different readers and interpreters come varieties and variation of concepts and perceptions, thus denominations teaching different things every where; with each of us teaching obstinately what he feels is his best understnading of what the scripture is saying. God help us!

God hates a feudal hierarchy,this is called the doctrine of the nicolaitanes which the roman catholics are practicing.It is the separation of God's people by elevation of the clergy or laity over the other.Jesus said the rulers of the gentiles lord over them and the great ones exercise authority upon them.The roman catholics are guilty of exercising authority as a taskmaster or supreme being over the saints which is anti-scriptural.If you check throughout the scripture,there is nothing like a lone ranger like we have as pope.Even the church in Jerusalem was run by a pluralistic eldership.Peter was never the pope. Moses was not called alone but the whole levetical tribes.Anyway this is derailing the thread,why not open a thread and let's discuss this issue maturely without throwing insults and tantrums.God bless.

Bidam: God hates a feudal hierarchy,this is called the doctrine of the nicolaitanes which the roman catholics are practicing.It is the separation of God's people by elevation of the clergy or laity over the other.Jesus said the rulers of the gentiles lord over them and the great ones exercise authority upon them.The roman catholics are guilty of exercising authority as a taskmaster or supreme being over the saints which is anti-scriptural.If you check throughout the scripture,there is nothing like a lone ranger like we have as pope.Even the church in Jerusalem was run by a pluralistic eldership.Peter was never the pope. Moses was not called alone but the whole levetical tribes.Anyway this is derailing the thread,why not open a thread and let's discuss this issue maturely without throwing insults and tantrums.God bless.

I would be great if you did not adhere to the false doctrines of the Catholic Church and stop with your insults!

Frank4YAHWEH:

I would be great if you did not adhere to the false doctrines of the Cthaolic Church and stop with your insults!

Where is the insult in my post

Bidam: Where is the insult in my post

Just a few posts back you falsely accused me of being ignorant! Need I go back any further for insults (plural)? Now, would you like to know which false doctrines of the Catholic Church that you adhere to?

Frank4YAHWEH:

Just a few posts back you falsely accused me of being ignorant! Need I go back any further? Now, would you like to know which false doctrines of the Catholic Church that you adhere to?

Ha! if you take that as an insult, my apologies.It wasn't intended to belittle your vast professorial knowledge and translations of the bible.But as for this 'tongues' sorry i don't agree with your opinions.