shinealight: I hope the following will be of help for those who truly seek answers to the original question posed:
Spirit is indeed the core of man and is the living essence in Man. It had existed in the Spiritual Realm (Paradise) as a spirit-germ i.e. immature and without experience but needed to travel down into cooler regions where it could go through the necessary experiencing which would enable it attain the needed maturity before it can return home(paradise) as a fully conscious and mature spirit which can then contribute positively and tangibly to the Activity up there in Paradise. In descending to the World of Matter (which is where the Earth is) the spirit-germ had to cover itself with a number of cloaks before finally taking on the final cloak we call the physical body here on earth. When man dies, it is only the outermost cloak (the physical body) that is laid aside. The spirit, together with its other cloaks forms the "Soul" and this Soul passes over to the Ethereal sphere in order to continue its further experiencing there. If it is able to 'complete' its experiencing in the Ethereal Realm and attains the requisite maturity, it will again shed its ethereal cloak and proceed higher until it finally returns to Paradise as a pure and fully mature spirit. That is the path of development for the the spirit of Man. Most spirit-germs however are not able to make it back to Paradise as we get entangled in the superficiality of earthly pursuits of wealth, fame and ego-trip!

May God bless you!

It's quite clear to me that TroGunn and co, are just quoting/interpreting the scripture without reason with it.

shinealight: I hope the following will be of help for those who truly seek answers to the original question posed:
Spirit is indeed the core of man and is the living essence in Man. It had existed in the Spiritual Realm (Paradise) as a spirit-germ i.e. immature and without experience but needed to travel down into cooler regions where it could go through the necessary experiencing which would enable it attain the needed maturity before it can return home(paradise) as a fully conscious and mature spirit which can then contribute positively and tangibly to the Activity up there in Paradise.

Please show us not less than 3 bible verses that back up your slightly worrying theology above.

frosbel:




Please show us not less than 3 bible verses that back up your slightly worrying theology above.

Truth, being the Word of the Lord, is universal and applies to every living human being in this 'Creation' which is the Work of the Lord. When you say show me verses in the Bible, and the moslem says show me verses in the Quran and the Hindu says show me verses in the Bhagavad Gita, .....etc; then there can be no end to it all. Every human being has been blessed with an inner faculty called the 'intuitive faculty' or 'inner voice' with which we are meant to weigh and evaluate truth. We should learn to use it more when some information is presented to us. If what I have written strikes you inwardly as being true, then accept it, otherwise you should leave it alone. The intuitive faculty NEVER errs but man refuses to make use of it , relying instead on his intellect which always fails him when assessing spiritual matters!

@trogun while you are thinking of if man has a spirit APART from the breath of life, look at this

TroGunn:

I said that man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.

The spirit or life-force acts within man to animate him so he can be said to have it in him, as shown in Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's).

Same idea in Psalm 146:4-"When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing"

It doesn't mean the breath of life (spirit) is an independent living being that survives the body.

Animals have same breath of life (spirit), as shown in Eccl 3:19-20- "Humans and animals have the same destiny. One dies just like the other. All of them have the same breath of life. Humans have no advantage over animals. All of life is pointless.  All life goes to the same place. All life comes from the ground, and all of it goes back to the ground". God's Word Translation.

@Trogun are you mixing words or confused here, on one hand you say the breath of life is impersonal and on another hand, you say breath of life is an independent living being

Hisblud asks: 4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else , does the breath of God dies along with the body?

Trogun answers:The "breath of life" is not a living being, by itself. It's impersonnal. It’s the spark of life that's from God. When one dies, the person no longer has that life-force. In a way we can say that "breath of God" returns to God because he is the source of life, but not as an independent intelligent living being.

Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life"

contradicts the "impersonal" breath of life as an "independent being"

TroGunn:

I said that man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.

The spirit or life-force acts within man to animate him so he can be said to have it in him, as shown in Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's)

hmm...

@Trogun
Now you are using Young's literal ba?

Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's). Same idea in Psalm 146:4-"When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing"

so what now? Is "their" not telling us about a third person pronoun! Not "my" spirit as in first person pronoun?

note the phrase "their spirit", this implies an independent spirit from the breath of life(Spirit of God). Thus showing that there is a spirit of man and spirit of God.

@Trogun

The spirit or life-force acts within man to animate him so he can be said to have it in him, as shown in Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's).

this words

living, alive, live, breathing, flesh and blood, conscious, sentient, moving

are synoyms of "animate", thus since man is animated by the life-force, then it follows that man's decision, consciousness is all depended on the "LIFE-FORCE" whether good or bad. do you agree?

hisblud: @Trogun
Now you are using Young's literal ba? so what now? Is "their" not telling us about a third person pronoun! Not "my" spirit as in first person pronoun?

note the phrase "their spirit", this implies an independent spirit from the breath of life(Spirit of God). Thus showing that there is a spirit of man and spirit of God.

He gathers their spirit, not spirits.

spirit is breath , stop this scripture twisting.

You do know Lexicons are 2 a penny on the Internet , go do some study.

TroGunn:

Animals have same breath of life (spirit), as shown in Eccl 3:19-20- "Humans and animals have the same destiny. One dies just like the other. All of them have the same breath of life. Humans have no advantage over animals. All of life is pointless.  All life goes to the same place. All life comes from the ground, and all of it goes back to the ground". God's Word Translation.

Are you sure you not interpreting that verse like an evolutionist who believe that animals have the "same ORIGIN" as man? well that us not what i want to say.

a. Since we and animals share the same "breath of life", my question is on the day of ressurrection, animals will also be resurrected ko from the interpretation you have given?

b. And something interesting, it states thus

All life goes to the same place. All life comes from the ground, and all of it goes back to the ground"

here "life" did not say it returns to God but ALL LIFE FROM GROUND, AND ALL OF IT GOES BACK TO THE GROUND" thus are you answering my question here

hisblud ask: 4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else , does the breath of God dies along with the body?

in order words, spirit(breath of life) goes to the ground as the body(dead soul)?

frosbel:

He gathers their spirit, not spirits.

spirit is breath , stop this scripture twisting.

You do know Lexicons are 2 a penny on the Internet , go do some study.

now could you answer does man have a spirit apart from the spirit of God?

frosbel:

He gathers their spirit, not spirits.

spirit is breath , stop this scripture twisting.

You do know Lexicons are 2 a penny on the Internet , go do some study.

"their breath" their individual breath will collectively be called what? Breath abi so their individual spirit will collectively be called what?

hisblud: hisblud: just say either YES, man has spirit apart from the breath of life OR NO, man has no spirit apart from the breath of life.

the "breath of life" = the breath and the life force (spirit)

see:

Genesis 7:22
"All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died." (Genesis 7:22).

Some translation puts it this way:

"All in whose nostrils was the breath of (the force of life) life, of all that was in the dry land, died." (Genesis 7:22).


So, the "breath of life" is made up of the breath + the life force.

hisblud: let me summaries all you have claim: that soul is when the breath of life(spirit) enters a moulded dust to animate it as man! And when that man dies the spirit returns to God and the animation stops and the remaining body is dead soul. Now i ask, the bible you claim to depend on FULLY, does it say man has a spirit apart from the breath of life? You can say like this, yes wit scripture and no with scriptures. That is easy. Now you are claiming that all we have hold on is not scriptural but human philosophy. Lets assume you are not on man's philosophy, can you answer the above question, either YES wit scripture or ON wit scriptures.

I don't even know what you hold on to. You have provided no scriptural basis for whatever u claim. Waiting.

On whether, man has any other spirit apart of breath of life that animates him, answer is NO. Man is kept alife by the "breath of life".

However, the bible does use the term "spirit" to mean "mental disposition" or "attitude". So u can see terms like "spirit of disobedience" or "spirit of the world" - meaning disposition toward certain behaviours or attitude.

D sage: @ TroGunn and Truthislight, I laff at you both. Let me quickly remind you some of the points you've made in your previous posts.

Body or soul is merely a dust and man is notting but dust of the earth. Man became a living soul as a result of breath of life from God.

Are you talking about resurrection of dust or what?

Waiting for your response.

John 5:28,29 shows the dead will come out of the graves. Yes, God will bring back the dead body to life. All the 8 resurrections in the bible point to a resurrection of the body. Lazarus's dead body, e.g, came back to life when Jesus woke him up from "sleep" from his grave.

D sage:

May God bless you!

It's quite clear to me that TroGunn and co, are just quoting/interpreting the scripture without reason with it.

At least, we have ascriptural basis for our position? On what do u base ur fanciful tale other than Greek mythology?

.

shinealight:

Truth, being the Word of the Lord, is universal and applies to every living human being in this 'Creation' which is the Work of the Lord. When you say show me verses in the Bible, and the moslem says show me verses in the Quran and the Hindu says show me verses in the Bhagavad Gita, .....etc; then there can be no end to it all. Every human being has been blessed with an inner faculty called the 'intuitive faculty' or 'inner voice' with which we are meant to weigh and evaluate truth. We should learn to use it more when some information is presented to us. If what I have written strikes you inwardly as being true, then accept it, otherwise you should leave it alone. The intuitive faculty NEVER errs but man refuses to make use of it , relying instead on his intellect which always fails him when assessing spiritual matters!

My intuition tells me it's a load of crap. Sorry man. And there are reasons the Bible is different, but that a different subject.

D sage: @ TroGunn and Truthislight, I laff at you both. Let me quickly remind you some of the points you've made in your previous posts.

Body or soul is merely a dust and man is notting but dust of the earth. Man became a living soul as a result of breath of life from God.

Are you talking about resurrection of dust or what?

Waiting for your response.

this from you and not me:

D sage:
Body or soul is merely a dust and man is notting but dust of the earth.

^^^
error! error!! error!!!

I never said that dust = soul

i said that dust + life force (spirit) = living soul.

Or you can qualify it as "dead soul" meaning no life in it.

D sage:
Are you talking about resurrection of dust or what?

^^
where was Adam to enable God to create him?

Why will there be a need for an entity or part of the man to be some where for God to be able to resurrect man?

If Adam was brought to life without him existing somewhere, then God does not need us to be some where to enable resurrection.

Meanwhile, why do you think there is need for one to store up treasure in heaven?
Simple, to give a reason for God to have you in his memory as to remember you.

Those that die and God dont have reason to remember them are gone forever:



>>> "name in the book of life"

hisblud: @trogun while you are thinking of if man has a spirit APART from the breath of life, look at this


@Trogun are you mixing words or confused here, on one hand you say the breath of life is impersonal and on another hand, you say breath of life is an independent living being



contradicts the "impersonal" breath of life as an "independent being"



hmm...

I have NEVER said " breath of life is an independent living being" - I've always maintained that IT IS NOT. If I did, it's surely a typo, but I doubt I said anything of the sort.

And here's the meaning of "impersonal" as I used it, in case that's where the confusion is from -


im·per·son·al  (m-pûrs-nl) adj.

1. Lacking personality; not being a person: an impersonal force

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=impersonal

hisblud: @Trogun


this words are synoyms of "animate", thus since man is animated by the life-force, then it follows that man's decision, consciousness is all depended on the "LIFE-FORCE" whether good or bad. do you agree?

Job 34:14-15 - "If God were to take back his spirit, and withdraw his breath, all life would cease, and humanity would turn again to dust"

Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's).

Psalm 146:4-"When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing"

All 3 verses above say exactly same thing, in different ways. The spirit is same "breath of life" (life-force), outcome remains same when it's gone - death, return to dust.

hisblud:


Are you sure you not interpreting that verse like an evolutionist who believe that animals have the "same ORIGIN" as man? well that us not what i want to say.

a. Since we and animals share the same "breath of life", my question is on the day of ressurrection, animals will also be resurrected ko from the interpretation you have given?

b. And something interesting, it states thus

here "life" did not say it returns to God but ALL LIFE FROM GROUND, AND ALL OF IT GOES BACK TO THE GROUND" thus are you answering my question here



in order words, spirit(breath of life) goes to the ground as the body(dead soul)?

The confusion is wholly urs. The bible is clear - man (living being, life) is from dust and returns to dust with no breath of life.

Same breath sustains animals, yes. God only mentions resurrecting the dead humans.

This just goes on to show that the "breath of life" is an impersonal force that keeps man and animals alive. And yes man and animals have same origin - created by God.

TroGunn:

I have NEVER said " breath of life is an independent living being" - I've always maintained that IT IS NOT. If I did, it's surely a typo, but I doubt I said anything of the sort.

And here's the meaning of "impersonal" as I used it, in case that's where the confusion is from -


im·per·son·al  (m-pûrs-nl) adj.

1. Lacking personality; not being a person: an impersonal force

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=impersonal

hmm now you are claiming typo when you wrote a complete statement? As you said i should reread your post, you need to go back over your post to see where you claimed. Dont say NEVER it might be a lie except you have modified it. Lol

hisblud: hmm now you are claiming typo when you wrote a complete statement? As you said i should reread your post, you need to go back over your post to see where you claimed. Dont say NEVER it might be a lie except you have modified it. Lol

Pls quote the post let me see it.

truthislight:

the "breath of life" = the breath and the life force (spirit)

see:

Genesis 7:22
"All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died." (Genesis 7:22).

Some translation puts it this way:

"All in whose nostrils was the breath of (the force of life) life, of all that was in the dry land, died." (Genesis 7:22).


So, the "breath of life" is made up of the breath the life force.

are you saying YES, man has a spirit apart from the breath of life OR NO, man does not have a spirit apart from the breath of life. Note breath of life is spirit.

And here's the simplest of them all showing where man goes when he dies -

Genesis 3:19 - "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Simple, biblical truth.

TroGunn:

Job 34:14-15 - "If God were to take back his spirit, and withdraw his breath, all life would cease, and humanity would turn again to dust"

Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's).

Psalm 146:4-"When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing"

All 3 verses above say exactly same thing, in different ways. The spirit is same "breath of life" (life-force), outcome remains same when it's gone - death, return to dust.

yes before death, the life force animate the man abi so definately his good and bad must definately be from the life force before he dies. Do you agree?

TroGunn: And he's the simplest of them all showing where man goes when he dies -

Genesis 3:19 - "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Simple, biblical truth.

sure man returns to dust, question is not whether he will die or not, question is the good or bad done by man, WHO OR WHAT animates him to live and do them?

hisblud: yes before death, the life force animate the man abi so definately his good and bad must definately be from the life force before he dies. Do you agree?

His good and bad is from the living man- desires, feelings, thought created from his brain.

The life-force is impersonal.

James 1:15 - "Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death".

It's why the punishment (wages) for sin is death (return to dust).

Please give us those verses showing otherwise. Been waiting for a while now.

TroGunn:

Pls quote the post let me see it.

@trogun while you are thinking of if man has a spirit APART from the breath of life, look at this

TroGunn:

I said that man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.

The spirit or life-force acts within man to animate him so he can be said to have it in him, as shown in Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's).

Same idea in Psalm 146:4-"When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing"

It doesn't mean the breath of life (spirit) is an independent living being that survives the body.

Animals have same breath of life (spirit), as shown in Eccl 3:19-20- "Humans and animals have the same destiny. One dies just like the other. All of them have the same breath of life. Humans have no advantage over animals. All of life is pointless.  All life goes to the same place. All life comes from the ground, and all of it goes back to the ground". God's Word Translation.

@Trogun are you mixing words or confused here, on one hand you say the breath of life is impersonal and on another hand, you say breath of life is an independent living being

Hisblud asks: 4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else , does the breath of God dies along with the body?

Trogun answers:The "breath of life" is not a living being, by itself. It's impersonnal. It’s the spark of life that's from God. When one dies, the person no longer has that life-force. In a way we can say that "breath of God" returns to God because he is the source of life, but not as an independent intelligent living being.

Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life"

contradicts the "impersonal" breath of life as an "independent being"

TroGunn:

I said that man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.

The spirit or life-force acts within man to animate him so he can be said to have it in him, as shown in Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's)

hmm...

Re: Body And Soul by TroGunn ( m ): 8:58am On Jan 05

hisblud:
My question is does man have a spirit?

Man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.
Does the animated robot have current? The current is what animates it, from a power source.
The spirit (breath of life) from God is what animates man.

notice i copied the time and date for you also, could this complete statement be mere typo?

hisblud: @trogun while you are thinking of if man has a spirit APART from the breath of life, look at this


@Trogun are you mixing words or confused here, on one hand you say the breath of life is impersonal and on another hand, you say breath of life is an independent living being



contradicts the "impersonal" breath of life as an "independent being"



hmm...

I said that man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.

The spirit or life-force acts within man to animate him so he can be said to have it in him, as shown in Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's)

Nothing in the above contradicts what I've been saying so far. Read it again slowly.

I said that man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.

Man does not have not such, is what it means. The spirit is the life-force, like a current that powers up a robot. Once "animated" the robot does it's thing based on it's cpu (brain).

@hisblud, pls provide the scriptural backing for ur position. No point clutching at straws in my posts- am sure u understand clearly the bible-based arguments and position put forth from the beginning of this thread by myself, frosbel and truthislight.

U have a contrary view, prove it from the scriptures.

by the bolded, you have agreed that "No, man does not have a spirit apart from the breath of life", hope am correct!

TroGunn:

I don't even know what you hold on to. You have provided no scriptural basis for whatever u claim. Waiting.

On whether, man has any other spirit apart of breath of life that animates him, answer is NO. Man is kept alife by the "breath of life".

However, the bible does use the term "spirit" to mean "mental disposition" or "attitude". So u can see terms like "spirit of disobedience" or "spirit of the world" - meaning disposition toward certain behaviours or attitude.