TroGunn: @hisblud, pls provide the scriptural backing for ur position. No point clutching at straws in my posts- am sure u understand clearly the bible-based arguments and position put forth from the beginning of this thread by myself, frosbel and truthislight.

U have a contrary view, prove it from the scriptures.

hello, you have said that my interpretation of the scriptures are based on greek philosophy, thus i have allowed you to present your scriptural verses and its "interpretation" and using it, you see that its making you to contradict yourself because applying it to context of another verse will spin that idea you want to uphold as the main idea. So that is why i have not given you yet any verse, rather am simply rereading your post and scriptures and see the "light" and ask more questions which in some cases, you have not answered or answered satisfactory.

by the bolded, you have stated the use of the word "spirit" as used in the bible, hope am correct!

TroGunn:

I don't even know what you hold on to. You have provided no scriptural basis for whatever u claim. Waiting.

On whether, man has any other spirit apart of breath of life that animates him, answer is NO. Man is kept alife by the "breath of life".

However, the bible does use the term "spirit" to mean "mental disposition" or "attitude". So u can see terms like "spirit of disobedience" or "spirit of the world" - meaning disposition toward certain behaviours or attitude.

and this is also in agreement with truthislight on "spirit", i hope

the word sprit has many connotations in the bible.
Spirit can be = attitude
spirit = power of God, breath, holy spirit.
Satan also have his own spirit.
Worshpers of satan display a certainkind of spirit = attitude.
Children of God also show a different kind of spirit = attitude
we also have spirit creatures as spirit.
Be concise with the use of the wordspirit.
See:
"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the
"spirit"
that now worketh in the children ofdisobedience,
^^^
the "spirit" of satan or the power ofsatan produce a kind of attitude in sons of disobedience.
So, the spirit shown by the people of satan is their attitude.
Dont just point scripture that dont relate to what we are saying because you see "spirit" there.
Peace.https://www.nairaland.com/1141788/questions-anony-souls/9#13633629

hisblud: hello, you have said that my interpretation of the scriptures are based on greek philosophy, thus i have allowed you to present your scriptural verses and its "interpretation" and using it, you see that its making you to contradict yourself because applying it to context of another verse will spin that idea you want to uphold as the main idea. So that is why i have not given you yet any verse, rather am simply rereading your post and scriptures and see the "light" and ask more questions which in you have not answered or answered satisfactory.

I've not contradicted myself. Message has been put forth quite clearly and simply - from dust we came, to dust we go at death.

Assume we are bible newbies, and explain ur different view.

Start from when God created Adam. If he had a soul or spirit or whatever u call it that survived his death, show when that thing was created and put inside Adam. When did immortal souls or spirits or whatever in humans come into existence?
Delve into resurrection and say what happens there.
Back it up with scriptures.

hisblud: are you saying YES, man has a spirit apart from the breath of life OR NO, man does not have a spirit apart from the breath of life. Note breath of life is spirit.

my friend in that single action called the "breath of life" :

we have the life force that kickstart the life and the breathing process.

hisblud: yes before death, the life force animate the man abi so definately his good and bad must definately be from the life force before he dies. Do you agree?

which good and bad again?

The doing of Good and bad is an action of the persons mind which is part of the brain.

Ok as a newbie, from your explanation, "spirit" means "attitude", "mental disposition"; from truthislight:
Spirit can be = attitude

spirit = power of God, breath, holy spirit.

Satan also have his own spirit.
Worshpers of satan display a certain kind of spirit = attitude.

Children of God also show a different kind of spirit = attitude

we also have spirit creatures as spirit.


Do you agree with the above explanations of the word "spirit"?

truthislight:

which good and bad again?

The doing of Good and bad is an action of the persons mind which is part of the brain.

good. Now what gives life to that mind to function as it aught : to do good or bad?

truthislight:

my friend in that single action called the "breath of life" :

we have the life force that kickstart the life and the breathing process.

yes agreed, but my question is choose either YES, man has a spirit APART from breath of life OR NO, man has no spirit APART from the breath of life. Choose one only.

hisblud: @trogun while you are thinking of if man has a spirit APART from the breath of life, look at this


@Trogun are you mixing words or confused here, on one hand you say the breath of life is impersonal and on another hand, you say breath of life is an independent living being



contradicts the "impersonal" breath of life as an "independent being"



hmm...

you are the one creating the contradictions where there is no contradiction.

He said that the breath of life is not an independent being QED.

hisblud: notice i copied the time and date for you also, could this complete statement be mere typo?

why are you confusing things here?
This is what he said:

"man does not have spirit in the sense of the breath of life being an independent spirit"

how can that ^^^ mean what you are insinuating?
*sigh*

TroGunn:

At least, we have ascriptural basis for our position? On what do u base ur fanciful tale other than Greek mythology?

I didn't deny the fact that you backed up your claims with some bible verses. Infact I knew all of these bible verses even before you posted them.

Our major difference are;

1. Interpretation of Gen 2:7.

2. The position of the soul,ie external/dead with the body.

TroGunn:

I said that man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.

The spirit or life-force acts within man to animate him so he can be said to have it in him, as shown in Psalm 104:29 -"... Thou gatherest their spirit -- they expire, And unto their dust they turn back." (Young's)

Nothing in the above contradicts what I've been saying so far. Read it again slowly.

I said that man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.

Man does not have not such, is what it means. The spirit is the life-force, like a current that powers up a robot. Once "animated" the robot does it's thing based on it's cpu (brain).

leave him, the confussion is his own and not yours.

What you said is very correct

hisblud:
by the bolded, you have agreed that "No, man does not have a spirit apart from the breath of life", hope am correct!

the breath of life is the spirit cum life force that activated the body, this living man started with taking in oxygen.

truthislight:

this from you and not me:


^^^
error! error!! error!!!

I never said that dust = soul

i said that dust + life force (spirit) = living soul.

Or you can qualify it as "dead soul" meaning no life in it.



^^
where was Adam to enable God to create him?

Why will there be a need for an entity or part of the man to be some where for God to be able to resurrect man?

If Adam was brought to life without him existing somewhere, then God does not need us to be some where to enable resurrection.

Meanwhile, why do you think there is need for one to store up treasure in heaven?
Simple, to give a reason for God to have you in his memory as to remember you.

Those that die and God dont have reason to remember them are gone forever:



>>> "name in the book of life"

Sorry, I thought you were the one says that. It was Frosbel.

Besides, how does the creation of first man correlate/tantamount to resurrection?

hisblud: hello, you have said that my interpretation of the scriptures are based on greek philosophy, thus i have allowed you to present your scriptural verses and its "interpretation" and using it, you see that its making you to contradict yourself because applying it to context of another verse will spin that idea you want to uphold as the main idea. So that is why i have not given you yet any verse, rather am simply rereading your post and scriptures and see the "light" and ask more questions which in some cases, you have not answered or answered satisfactory.

this is a lie you cook up by your self.

Maybe this was why you stated behaving like Reginuse my friend that attempted something like this on me once. Lol.

But the truth is that he Trogunn never contradicted himself.

hisblud: by the bolded, you have stated the use of the word "spirit" as used in the bible, hope am correct!




and this is also in agreement with truthislight on "spirit", i hope

can you state the difference?

truthislight:

can you state the difference?

Better spend your time on more important things, they are not willing to learn, it's all about who is right or wrong.

We have quoted over a dozen scripture which are so obvious to read and understand , that one has to wonder why some people just like holding onto false doctrine.

How can a MAN be DEAD , when part of him is still alive somewhere, fully intact with memory, thoughts and knowledge, something that the bible , especially through King Solomon ( wisest king ever ) , totally destroys in a few verses.

hisblud: good. Now what gives life to that mind to function as it aught : to do good or bad?

my friend, dont let us go in circles.

The difference between man and animal is our brain capacity, it is this that makes the difference and makes us in God's image.

The mind is a part of the brain.

The brain are in sections.

Do i really need to start this lecture again!?
*sigh*

hisblud: yes agreed, but my question is choose either YES, man has a spirit APART from breath of life OR NO, man has no spirit APART from the breath of life. Choose one only.

my friend dont be slow.

That we take in breath does not mean that the cells were not kickstarted by the spirit also, and that is why i said that what happened was that that the action of the breath kickstarted the life and the breathing process together.

Are you saying it was only the taking in of oxygen that the action of the spirit caused?
for what reason?

Are you saying it was only the kickstarting of the cells that the action of the spirit caused?

Na wao!

D sage:


Sorry, I thought you were the one says that. It was Frosbel.

Besides, how does the creation of first man correlate/tantamount to resurrection?

i dont understand this question.

I cannot answer it so that i dont give wrong answer please.

Rephrase.

frosbel:

Better spend your time on more important things, they are not willing to learn, it's all about who is right or wrong.

We have quoted over a dozen scripture which are so obvious to read and understand , that one has to wonder why some people just like holding onto false doctrine.

How can a MAN be DEAD , when part of him is still alive somewhere, fully intact with memory, thoughts and knowledge, something that the bible , especially through King Solomon ( wisest king ever ) , totally destroys in a few verses.

true my friend.

This is part of the departure from the truth and following doctrine inspired by Demons

truthislight:

this is a lie you cook up by your self.

Maybe this was why you stated behaving like Reginuse my friend that attempted something like this on me once. Lol.

But the truth is that he Trogunn never contradicted himself.

Thank you, my brother. Instead of dealing with the real issue of backing up his claims he's causing distractions.

D sage:

I didn't deny the fact that you backed up your claims with some bible verses. Infact I knew all of these bible verses even before you posted them.

Our major difference are;

1. Interpretation of Gen 2:7.

2. The position of the soul,ie external/dead with the body.

And your basis for the differences? But notice also verses where soul is used for dead bodies- adds up to explain biblical soul.

truthislight:

why are you confusing things here?
This is what he said:

"man does not have spirit in the sense of the breath of life being an independent spirit"

how can that ^^^ mean what you are insinuating?
*sigh*

stop misquoting what he wrote please this is his quote please

I said that man does not have a spirit in the sense of the breath of life (spirit) being an independent living being that survives the body.

quote all before the full stop and see who is confused!

truthislight:

this is a lie you cook up by your self.

Maybe this was why you stated behaving like Reginuse my friend that attempted something like this on me once. Lol.

But the truth is that he Trogunn never contradicted himself.

where is the lie? Quote it from what i said.

truthislight:

can you state the difference?

i was not stating the difference i was asking him, does he agree wit the various explanation for the word "spirit"? What i was expecting him is simply yes or no to the question!

hisblud: stop misquoting what he wrote please this is his quote please quote all before the full stop and see who is confused!

what you quoted and what i said are both the same and makes perfect sense.

Trugunn was right with his sentence.

truthislight:

my friend, dont let us go in circles.

The difference between man and animal is our brain capacity, it is this that makes the difference and makes us in God's image.

The mind is a part of the brain.

The brain are in sections.

Do i really need to start this lecture again!?
*sigh*

no need for long lecture. this is presentation of ideas bros. Good again,

[size=15pt]breath of life => man => brain => mind => good/bad[/size]

so in conclusion, the "breath of life" which you agree is what animates man, must surely be blamed for the good/bad the object(man) does!

TroGunn:

Thank you, my brother. Instead of dealing with the real issue of backing up his claims he's causing distractions.

which distraction the real ISSUE

hisblud: Ok as a newbie, from your explanation, "spirit" means "attitude", "mental disposition";

from truthislight:
Spirit can be = attitude

spirit = power of God, breath, holy spirit.

Satan also have his own spirit.
Worshpers of satan display a certain kind of spirit = attitude.

Children of God also show a different kind of spirit = attitude

we also have spirit creatures as spirit.


Do you agree with the above explanations of the word "spirit"?

@trogun back to the above, do you agree?

@frosbel,trogunn and truthislight, could you share with us how you became born again on this thread https://www.nairaland.com/1151894/how-got-born-again-christians-only. It would be nice dont you think?

truthislight:

what you quoted and what i said are both the same and makes perfect sense.

Trugunn was right with his sentence.

Don't mind him. I guess he couldn't see "..man does not have spirit in the sense of.." in that sentence.