nagoma:

The bible is tales with a good dose of porrnography. Isn't it?

what pronography? Jesus dint av to marry a harem or a nine year old to proclaim God did he?

rush j.:

Lucky u, not a physical conversation. Ur mother wud hv born anoda tomakint. u will definitely die in pieces. Mumu, waka, shege dan banza, alade, akuya. God go punish u severely.

pls do not insult, jus make ur point known, this isnt d way Jesus would av spoken

Chongaiman:

Dama zomo baya fushi da makashinsa sai da maratayinsa.



And the (mostly christian) Allies thought otherwise (and followed it up with action); So much for the infallibility of the pope.

which pope? He wasnt even catholic, false propaganda

[quote author=anataala][/quote]lol, this dosnt do any justice to ur claim, wats d name of d pope? Is dat even hitler, if it was true we wuld av heard abt it long ago, false propaganda.....again

No, information i heard was that they were plotting for shady oil well deals

tomakint:

Don't worry God (Yahweh) is your strength!

No! U got it wrng, God wuld neva be his strength if all he does is blaspheme instead of preachin d gospel, u only make muslims hate us the more and it'll make it harder to reach out to them, preach LOVE i beg of u not blasphemy

prairie: No! U got it wrng, God wuld neva be his strength if all he does is blaspheme instead of preachin d gospel, u only make muslims hate us the more and it'll make it harder to reach out to them, preach LOVE i beg of u not blasphemy

If you follow my posts on this particular thread you would have noticed that I have to exhaust all what I have in my kitty just to make this debate an informative,educative and enlightening one. Unfortunately, in a situation where the other party is trying at all cost to argue to win, then we are heading for something sketchy! We all know and I am sure they (many of the Muslims) know too that there is a connection with 'Violence to Islam' but they always come out to act coyly about it. So I have preached in LOVE, educate in LOVE, but what do we have? They keep peddling psycho-babbles and extreme lies

Yea..deadly disease

And this is supposed to be a religion of Peace? Can somebody tell me the name of that book beside the 'severed hand'?

and what do you call this? or better still 'spot the difference' from those bags of garbage all in the name of "religion of peace"?

and what is the meaning of this?

Men....^^^

Trust me Ladies and Gentlemen, this religion is nothing but deception of the deepest dye, filled with sophistries and to sum it up; LIE, LIE, E-LIE, LIE!!!

Foxy_Rebirth: Men....^^^

If you are in shock the story of that bloodied boy can be traced to this;

The History of Ashura Tradition among the Shiites in Islam

Husayn, second son of Ali and Fatima, and grandson of the Prophet, Muhammad, the founder of Islam. Husayn is considered the second (and sometimes third) Imam (political leader) of the Shia branch of Islam. His fame rests chiefly on his preeminence as the Prophet's last surviving grandson and with his rebellion against the Umayyad caliph Yazid, which ended in martyrdom
Husayn was born in Medina (located in present-day western Saudi Arabia) in 626, a few years before Muhammad's death (632). Husayn and his older brother Hasan were the Prophet's only grandsons and numerous Islamic traditions relate Muhammad's special love for the two boys. Husayn's tragic story began after the death of Hasan, whose claim to the caliphate, the office of the supreme leader of the Muslims, had been challenged by Muawiyah, the founding father of the Umayyad dynasty. When Hasan abdicated and submitted to Muawiyah's caliphate in 661, Husayn too, as the younger brother, was obligated to acknowledge Muawiyah. After Hasan's death, Husayn continued to submit to Muawiyah but refused to recognize Muawiyah's son, Yazid, as the heir apparent to the caliphate.

On Muawiyah's death Husayn fled Medina and its Umayyad governor to avoid giving allegiance to Yazid. Having found temporary refuge in the holy city of Mecca, Husayn soon received letters from many of the inhabitants of Al Kūfah (now in Iraq) who invited him to rebel with them against Yazid and claim the caliphate for himself. Husayn then dispatched a cousin, Muslim ibn Aqil, to Al Kūfah, where Muslim wrote back and confirmed this support. However, by the time the letter had reached Husayn in Mecca, Muslim's activities had been reported to the Umayyad governor and he had been abandoned by the Kūfans. Having set off through the desert for Al Kūfah with a small party of men, women, and children, Husayn was stopped from completing the journey. In 680 all of his male companions, with the exception of one of his sons, Ali Zain al-Abidin, were massacred by Umayyad soldiers at Karbala. Husayn was beheaded, his body trampled by horses, and his head taken to the Umayyad court. Mainstream Shias believe Husayn designated his son, Ali Zain al-Abidin, to be his successor, and thus Imam, shortly before being martyred (just as Hasan was supposed to have designated Husayn just before his death).

While the massacre at Karbala is condemned by Muslims in general, it is particularly mourned by Imami Shias on Ashura, an annual day of mourning that falls on the traditional date of Husayn's martyrdom, the 10th day of the Islamic month of Muharram. During this day, Imami Shias ritually reenact the massacre and express their grief. Many may cut their own bodies with razors and whip themselves to emulate Husayn's bloody wounds. The event culminates in a Passion Play in which the angel Gabriel delivers a key to Husayn, which he can use to take to paradise all those who have honored him. Among Shia Muslims, Ashura is the most important of the many events observed in commemoration of martyrdom and is known generically as Taziya. In contrast to mainstream Muslims, Imami Shias believe that all of their Imams were martyred, with the exception of the last who is in hiding but ready to return to the world to restore justice as the Mahdi, or rightly guided Imam.

So much for a Religion!!!

tomakint: And this is supposed to be a religion of Peace? Can somebody tell me the name of that book beside the 'severed hand'?

OMG! Cannibals!! Pure Caninibals!!!

nagoma:

I can now confirm what I suspected. Your question was rhetorical. All you wanted is how to assert the western judeo- christian propaganda concurrently going on with the war against Islam. 5 years you are talking about is like a minute in the day of human history. You can't isolate and compartmentalize events and interpret according to your caprices , leanings and interests. That is why I requested for a definition.the conspiracy , hypocrisy and evil machinations against Islam did not start 5 years ago and you and your masters can never destroy Islam. you did not poortray any smartness at all, one can always identify a demagogue. As if you understand The enlist language you so cherish and worship yourself - so long.

@ Nagoma, did you say conspiracy against islam? How? People who share your forsaken faith are killing innocent souls all over the world for no just cause, yet you say there is conspiracy against islam? In spite of the killings, the oppressed still don't see any reason for retaliation, simply because they value human life, yet you mention conspiracy? People are presenting incontrovertible facts, glaringly exposing your allah, Mohammad and religion as founded on evil yet you say conspiracy. You must be mentally impaired! Why I'm I even responding to this? Rubbish!!

As I said in my earlier post, you compared Allah fighting for himself to those two men fighting for themselves, not their God. You actually said that the two should be allowed to fight for themselves just like people call on Allah to fight for himself, if I remember correctly.

Now in your reply you again confirmed my warning that a lot of the issues that come up around here are due to a terrible tunnel vision among adherents of some religions. It is this vision of "if you are not of my religion you are condemned, if you speak against my prophet you are condemned, most of the time to death" that prevents such people from seeing that even the great God is disgusted by the behavior of those supposedly doing his bidding. Many would be surprised at the summary judgement they will receive from their God on that judgement day they so look forward to - "I did not command or send you to kill people on my behalf" would be his reply.

Lastly, below you compare the outrage expressed by the all too common gloating over the death of people of other religions to what you call "overworked" and "overreact", but these are not the same thing. Have you seen any christians burn and pillage because someone said the most evil thing possible over one of their own? They have used words, and even thrown insults back, but I am yet to see any fire burning, anybody killed or maimed over such a statement, but this is the reaction we get from many of your fellow religonists all the time. Stop comparing sleep to death!!!

aurenflani:

What do you mean? Aren't christians the ones who kept telling us that statement, that we get worked out and overreact because one of their own either insults the Blessed Prophet, Al-Qur'an or Allah?

My point was all about reminding them to practice what they preach and allow their gods to fight for his two sons. That's all. Nothing blasphemous.

koruji: As I said in my earlier post, you compared Allah fighting for himself to those two men fighting for themselves, not their God. You actually said that the two should be allowed to fight for themselves just like people call on Allah to fight for himself, if I remember correctly.

Now in your reply you again confirmed my warning that a lot of the issues that come up around here are due to a terrible tunnel vision among adherents of some religions. It is this vision of "if you are not of my religion you are condemned, if you speak against my prophet you are condemned, most of the time to death" that prevents such people from seeing that even the great God is disgusted by the behavior of those supposedly doing his bidding. Many would be surprised at the summary judgement they will receive from their God on that judgement day they so look forward to - "I did not command or send you to kill people on my behalf" would be his reply.

Lastly, below you compare the outrage expressed by the all too common gloating over the death of people of other religions to what you call "overworked" and "overreact", but these are not the same thing. Have you seen any christians burn and pillage because someone said the most evil thing possible over one of their own? They have used words, and even thrown insults back, but I am yet to see any fire burning, anybody killed or maimed over such a statement, but this is the reaction we get from many of your fellow religonists all the time. Stop comparing sleep to death!!!

Egbon stop supporting what is not just and fair.
In this same world where hypocrisy rules, we have seen christian led nations lied about Weapons of mass destruction in iraq just because of oil and ended up murdering over a million iraqis.
You people keep blowing this propaganda as if the whole world did not know about the CRUSADES conducted by christians in which Several hundreds of thousands of people if not millions were massacred in the name of CRUSADE.
We genuine and strict Muslims knew very well how the christian dominated West is supporting Dictatorial, barbaric and highly oppressive Saudi Regime which is ruling against the dictates of Islam. FYI, monarchy is anti Islam.
We know the christian dominated countries that are supplying weapons to the brutal Bahrain regime to suppress its people.
By the way, where in the bible was Christianity mentioned?
All those pictures of Mary you are showing around, whom does it resembles between a Muslim and a Christian.
FYI, am not a religious bigot and am currently engaged to a DEVOUT Christian(Catholic)
i just hate the hypocrisy of some bigots (are you one?)

My Muslim Brothers stop Defending Sheik Gumi, he is a blood E.D.I.O.T who should be tied down and bullet pumped on his head.
This is not Islam.

And mind you the Koran was not written in the lifetime of your prophet either, and if you are not to continue covering yourself with the veil of ignorance much of that book were stories lifted from the bible, and modified to fit a new location and time. Religious texts were written as a guidance for the followers of religions at particular points in time, and thus reflect the state of that society's evolution at the time of writing. That is why the old testament has a deeply different temperament from the new testament.

The real issue is not that these religious texts recorded things as they were done in their age and time, but that people who live in the 21st century continue to adhere to things written for the situation of in 1500 BC. It is truly sad, because those guys back then were revolutionaries of thought and national organization and they would be amazed, if they found themselves in the 21st century, to learn that people would want to do things the way they were done 4000 years ago. They would surely tell you how crazy it would be for them to be expected to follow rules from 6000 BC when they were alive in 1500BC.

We truly need to start thinking in these terms. The people who gave us the rules we are killing and maiming over in the 21st century would have thrown them away long ago - they were revolutionaries who changed the way things were done in their time, and hence threw away old "useless" traditions.

Examples of what I mean:
1) The story of Abraham refusing to sacrifice Isaac was a revolution in religious worship because it demonstrated how human sacrifice became a thing of the past, marking the birth of what is now known as Judaism. If human sacrifice was not an integral part of the religion that Abraham use to know it would have been an absurd thing for him to be "tested" this way by his God. That same human-sacrificing religion dominated most of the rest of the world for ages.

2) The era of Jesus marked another revolution in religious worship where much of the capital punishment underlying the administration of justice in Judaism were thrown away. Yet, paying attention to the story-line, it is easy to see one last, special, human sacrifice in the death of Jesus Christ to appease the great God for our original sin - except that Jesus was no ordinary human and was raised back to life and heavenly kingship after 3 days. Not only did Jesus' last sacrifice end all need for human sacrifices to appease for our original sin, but all the hand-cutting, eye-for-for an eye, and death for insults that characterized Judaism till the 1st century. Unfortunately these things that Jesus eradicated got incorporated into the new religion that took root around the 7th century.

3) Mohammed's era marked the introduction of monotheism in his part of the world. This same people that Mohammed changed likely took the religion they had from those same people from whom Abraham had separated himself about 2500 years or so earlier. You should note that he was not the first to try to impose monotheism on his society - check out Akhenaten of ancient Egypt.

Of course, those who claim to follow in the steps of these revolutionaries bring back some, or even all, of what was changed - bad habits they say die hard!!!

In any case, the next evolution in religious worship will be the end of "collective" religion due to their excesses, even as their gross hypocrisy and barbarism are glaring to all in the age of reason. And by that last statement I meant all religions, not just some!!! Religious books and authorities will eventually become a thing of the past. It is a matter of time!

aurenflani:

Who were the eye witnesses that wrote the account of the crufixificion?
The disciples that " all forsake him and fled"?
The ones that were terrified upon his appearance before them after the "crucifixion"? Or the doctor (Luke) who wrote his account after donkey years.

Jesus did not volunteer for any so called sacrifice. The bible lied and contradicted itself because "he" was head asking why God forsook him "while on the cross".
As a matter of fact non of the personalities who are credited with writing the biblical books are the true authors of the books credited o their names. Even Mathew did not write the gospel according to his name. Just go true how Mathew and Jesus were supposed to have met and you see a different person giving account.

The bible is not the gospel(injil) of Jesus. Because in all the new testament we hear of Jesus travelling to various places and preaching the gospel. So do tell me, where is the gospel according to st. Jesus?

Confused bible and it's confused followers.

Again, there is a tunnel vision. You talk about America as a christian led nation lying about Iraqi WMD.
This is actually a good example of my point - Bush did what he did but it had nothing to do with religion.
This inability to separate religion from events is the cause of the tunnel vision I speak of.

There is no basis for Gumi to bring any form of religion into what happened to Azazi, unless he infact knows something we don't.
However, since he has not provided any information along those lines we cannot but attribute his outburst to that religious tunnel vision.
Many on NL condemn statements by people like Beaf about northerners, but who can blame him after you hear a "religious leader" gloat and incite his followers over the death of two of his countrymen!!!

There is one and only one reason why Bush went into Iraq - to complete the job his dad left unfinished/avenge the audacity of Sadam to attempt an assassination of his dad. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion but power, but the religiously motivated act of Osama Bin Laden provided the perfect excuse.
In addition, while Bush was going into this misadventure most Americans opposed it, so people need to get their facts right.

There are conflicts in the world that have nothing to do with religion, but the infusion of these conflicts with religion leads to even more deadly results.
Religion is supposed to be the way to God, but the truth is really what Blaise Pascal observed that "Wicked Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."

The things people do in the name of God probably makes him want to shield himself from observing it.

seanet01: Egbon stop supporting what is not just and fair.
In this same world where hypocrisy rules, we have seen christian led nations lied about Weapons of mass destruction in iraq just because of oil and ended up murdering over a million iraqis.
You people keep blowing this propaganda as if the whole world did not know about the CRUSADES conducted by christians in which Several hundreds of thousands of people if not millions were massacred in the name of CRUSADE.
We genuine and strict Muslims knew very well how the christian dominated West is supporting Dictatorial, barbaric and highly oppressive Saudi Regime which is ruling against the dictates of Islam. FYI, monarchy is anti Islam.
We know the christian dominated countries that are supplying weapons to the brutal Bahrain regime to suppress its people.
By the way, where in the bible was Christianity mentioned?
All those pictures of Mary you are showing around, whom does it resembles between a Muslim and a Christian.
FYI, am not a religious bigot and am currently engaged to a DEVOUT Christian(Catholic)
i just hate the hypocrisy of some bigots (are you one?)

Exactly my point, people need to separate religion from this terrorism. I will never blame the present christians for the crusades, nor will i blame innocent muslims for the crimes of Boko haram or terrorism.
Sincerity and Objectivity is all this world needed for peace to permeate us.
Isn't it a suprise that THE ROOT OF ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY SAUDI ARABIA AND ISRAEL ARE NOW THE MOST BRUTAL, OPPRESSIVE AND DICTATORIAL REGIME IN THE WORLD.
We know Saudi is doing to the Minority Shites and what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
Nuff said.

That of Osama to me was not actually Religiously motivated.
Osama was a product of an extremist system of Islam initiated by the oppressive Saudi/sunni gulf monarchies to brainwash and keep their Subjects busy from having the necessary time to deal with their Oppressive tendencies.

koruji: Again, there is a tunnel vision. You talk about America as a christian led nation lying about Iraqi WMD.
This is actually a good example of my point - Bush did what he did but it had nothing to do with religion.
This inability to separate religion from events is the cause of the tunnel vision I speak of.There is no basis for Gumi to bring any form of religion into what happened to Azazi, unless he infact knows something we don't.However, since he has not provided any information along those lines we cannot but attribute his outburst to that religious tunnel vision.
Many on NL condemn statements by people like Beaf about northerners, but who can blame him after you hear a "religious leader" gloat and incite his followers over the death of two of his countrymen!!!There is one and only one reason why Bush went into Iraq - to complete the job his dad left unfinished/avenge the audacity of Sadam to attempt an assassination of his dad. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion but power, but the religiously motivated act of Osama Bin Laden provided the perfect excuse.
There are conflicts in the world that have nothing to do with religion, but the infusion of these conflicts with religion leads to

George bush may be less articulate than some of the US presidents but he could speak for himself without your help. He said he was going on a crusade in Iraq. That was clear and that crusade is still ongoing. No one is deceived. His exact words " This Crusade, this war on terror is going to take a While". You can also read Bob Woodward's book- "Plan of attack"

koruji: Again, there is a tunnel vision. You talk about America as a christian led nation lying about Iraqi WMD.
This is actually a good example of my point - Bush did what he did but it had nothing to do with religion.
This inability to separate religion from events is the cause of the tunnel vision I speak of.

There is no basis for Gumi to bring any form of religion into what happened to Azazi, unless he infact knows something we don't.
However, since he has not provided any information along those lines we cannot but attribute his outburst to that religious tunnel vision.
Many on NL condemn statements by people like Beaf about northerners, but who can blame him after you hear a "religious leader" gloat and incite his followers over the death of two of his countrymen!!!

There is one and only one reason why Bush went into Iraq - to complete the job his dad left unfinished/avenge the audacity of Sadam to attempt an assassination of his dad. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion but power, but the religiously motivated act of Osama Bin Laden provided the perfect excuse.
In addition, while Bush was going into this misadventure most Americans opposed it, so people need to get their facts right.

There are conflicts in the world that have nothing to do with religion, but the infusion of these conflicts with religion leads to even more deadly results.
Religion is supposed to be the way to God, but the truth is really what Blaise Pascal observed that "Wicked Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."

The things people do in the name of God probably makes him want to shield himself from observing it.

But the same Bush called his "mother of all smokescreen" (apologies to George Galloway)CRUSADE. Tell us if this is a secular term or if Bush and Blair are not christians ruling christian nations and christian peoples?

You can continue to deceive yourselves as you like but only your gullible fellow christians will continue to have their minds twisted with lies and hypocrisy and not us.

kenzspunpy:

@ Nagoma, did you say conspiracy against islam? How? People who share your forsaken faith are killing innocent souls all over the world for no just cause, yet you say there is conspiracy against islam? In spite of the killings, the oppressed still don't see any reason for retaliation, simply because they value human life, yet you mention conspiracy? People are presenting incontrovertible facts, glaringly exposing your allah, Mohammad and religion as founded on evil yet you say conspiracy. You must be mentally impaired! Why I'm I even responding to this? Rubbish!!

You have a narrow constricted view of the world and you are naive and gullible.

I will keep emphasizing my point that there is a terrible tunnel vision associated with religion.

It is amazing that you listen to the words of Bush (another guy with religion-induced tunnel vision), but forgot how most of his countrymen, even some who supported the war, descended on him.
Yes, Bush had his co-conspirators but the fact remains that if Bush were actually after religious aims he would have landed in Iran, not Iraq.
Isn't it a little odd that people are claiming Bush went into Iraq for religious ends, when in reality Sadam was quite secular & more moderate than all those around him?

That brings me to my main point. On this discussion, Gumi has shown a religious face that promotes terror and then there are two sides to be taken.
The example of seanet01's comment on Gumi is what you would expect from muslims who can clearly see that Gumi and the kind of behavior he encourages does not do you any favors.
But, most of you that have commented here have not condemned Gumi's words, rather you have turned it into a muslim versus christian thing, as if Gumi's words should be taken as coming from a true muslim. Even if you were disappointed by the name calling of islam that ensued you would first condemn Gumi in strong terms, and immediately follow that with a condemnation of those calling islam names.

Whatever religion we profess, at the end of the day it comes down to a choice of whether we prefer to land on the side of truth, human compassion or barbaric behavior in a modern age.

And before you take that as a condemnation of your religion, note that the Bible contains similar things as in the Koran. What has happened with christianity and judaism (at least those who claim those as religions) is that the majority have now moved away from those things - and that is the difference from the stage of evolution in islam. There are many muslims that will not think of even judging anyone according to some of the rules of sharia today. This people would like to think of themselves as the true muslims, but the fact is that those rules remain the basic mode of justice in muslim-dominated nations of the world, and those that do not follow along to the letter are the ones seen as false muslims.

Like christianity experienced after years of the inquisition, what needs to happen in islam is for those who can recognize that the age for some of the existing practices is long gone to lead a "reformation" that will preserve the many great aspects of the religion and throw away many condemn-able traditions. That "reformation" will come one way or the other, the worst thing that can happen is for excesses to lead to the eradication of "collective" religion, and this is where we are headed if this kind of stuff does not stop.

Religion has a great role to play in the life of the individual, but its hijack by wolves-in-sheep-clothing will eventually lead to its decimation in all forms.

aurenflani:
But the same Bush called his "mother of all smokescreen" (apologies to George Galloway)CRUSADE. Tell us if this is a secular term or if Bush and Blair are not christians ruling christian nations and christian peoples?

You can continue to deceive yourselves as you like but only your gullible fellow christians will continue to have their minds twisted with lies and hypocrisy and not us.

nagoma:
George bush may be less articulate than some of the US presidents but he could speak for himself without your help. He said he was going on a crusade in Iraq. That was clear and that crusade is still ongoing. No one is deceived. His exact words " This Crusade, this war on terror is going to take a While". You can also read Bob Woodward's book- "Plan of attack"

@seanet01: I feel your pain. You are of course right, the only problem is that it is this people and their leaders that tend to speak for and represent islam to the world.
Take a secular example, it is the same reason that Nigerians no matter how well-to-do, highly placed, completely honest they may be find it hard to be rid of suspicions of 419 any time they announce themselves as a Nigerian to foreigners. Of course, those who think all Nigerians are 419ers are wrong, but it is difficult to blame them when a lot of our government officials, who represent us to the world, are the biggest 419er of them all. It is the same problem, in a different setting, that face many muslims today.

seanet01: Exactly my point, people need to separate religion from this terrorism. I will never blame the present christians for the crusades, nor will i blame innocent muslims for the crimes of Boko haram or terrorism.
Sincerity and Objectivity is all this world needed for peace to permeate us.
Isn't it a suprise that THE ROOT OF ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY SAUDI ARABIA AND ISRAEL ARE NOW THE MOST BRUTAL, OPPRESSIVE AND DICTATORIAL REGIME IN THE WORLD.
We know Saudi is doing to the Minority Shites and what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
Nuff said.

koruji: I will keep emphasizing my point that there is a terrible tunnel vision associated with religion.

It is amazing that you listen to the words of Bush (another guy with religion-induced tunnel vision), but forgot how most of his countrymen, even some who supported the war, descended on him.Yes, Bush had his co-conspirators but the fact remains that if Bush were actually after religious aims he would have landed in Iran, not Iraq.
Isn't it a little odd that people are claiming Bush went into Iraq for religious ends, when in reality Sadam was quite secular & more mode of justice in muslim-dominated nations of the world, and those that do not follow along to the letter are the ones seen as false

Mr. Bush said the CRUSADE will take a long time and the whole world knows that the next target in this crusade is Iran . The Iranian skies at the moment are filled with American drones , I am sure you have seen the picture of the latest one brought down. Taking Iraq before Iran must be part of the strategy of the President and Christian war General Bush. Doesn't indicate anything. My guess is making sure their are no nuclear or chemical weapons - hence the prolonged inspection.. Lack of this safety assurance is what is delaying the Christian forces from taking Iran.In relation to Gummi, we are disputing the report alleging those remarks. Such reports are full of the press sympathetic to Christian hegemony. When it is proved that the report is authentic then the Nigerian legal system and therefore all of us will condemn him. Not before- as if condemning him will change your hostile views on Islam .nonsense! Everybody knows that there is a Crusade vicious and violent going on against Islam right now. You want Muslims who are witnesses to it to just read about it history books many years later? ( those who survive that is).

what ever he is his father is late and he to will be kate and his cohor follower will soon become predators

koruji: And mind you the Koran was not written in the lifetime of your prophet either, and if you are not to continue covering yourself with the veil of ignorance much of that book were stories lifted from the bible, and modified to fit a new location and time. Religious texts were written as a guidance for the followers of religions at particular points in time, and thus reflect the state of that society's evolution at the time of writing. That is why the old testament has a deeply different temperament from the new testament.

The real issue is not that these religious texts recorded things as they were done in their age and time, but that people who live in the 21st century continue to adhere to things written for the situation of in 1500 BC. It is truly sad, because those guys back then were revolutionaries of thought and national organization and they would be amazed, if they found themselves in the 21st century, to learn that people would want to do things the way they were done 4000 years ago. They would surely tell you how crazy it would be for them to be expected to follow rules from 6000 BC when they were alive in 1500BC.

We truly need to start thinking in these terms. The people who gave us the rules we are killing and maiming over in the 21st century would have thrown them away long ago - they were revolutionaries who changed the way things were done in their time, and hence threw away old "useless" traditions.

Examples of what I mean:
1) The story of Abraham refusing to sacrifice Isaac was a revolution in religious worship because it demonstrated how human sacrifice became a thing of the past, marking the birth of what is now known as Judaism. If human sacrifice was not an integral part of the religion that Abraham use to know it would have been an absurd thing for him to be "tested" this way by his God. That same human-sacrificing religion dominated most of the rest of the world for ages.

2) The era of Jesus marked another revolution in religious worship where much of the capital punishment underlying the administration of justice in Judaism were thrown away. Yet, paying attention to the story-line, it is easy to see one last, special, human sacrifice in the death of Jesus Christ to appease the great God for our original sin - except that Jesus was no ordinary human and was raised back to life and heavenly kingship after 3 days. Not only did Jesus' last sacrifice end all need for human sacrifices to appease for our original sin, but all the hand-cutting, eye-for-for an eye, and death for insults that characterized Judaism till the 1st century. Unfortunately these things that Jesus eradicated got incorporated into the new religion that took root around the 7th century.

3) Mohammed's era marked the introduction of monotheism in his part of the world. This same people that Mohammed changed likely took the religion they had from those same people from whom Abraham had separated himself about 2500 years or so earlier. You should note that he was not the first to try to impose monotheism on his society - check out Akhenaten of ancient Egypt.

Of course, those who claim to follow in the steps of these revolutionaries bring back some, or even all, of what was changed - bad habits they say die hard!!!

In any case, the next evolution in religious worship will be the end of "collective" religion due to their excesses, even as their gross hypocrisy and barbarism are glaring to all in the age of reason. And by that last statement I meant all religions, not just some!!! Religious books and authorities will eventually become a thing of the past. It is a matter of time!

Christianity is more of truth than Mohammed followers

merbenko: what ever he is his father is late and he to will be kate and his cohor follower will soon become predators

Perhaps you and your children will live in this world for ever.