"Just keep your disbelief to yourself in Nigeria".

"I just mind my own business and let the religious bigots kill themselves"

"what can we do about Nigerians' craze for religion? Abeg, just let me live my life"


These are the words I have heard from some Nigerian atheists. Some from internet chats on facebook and some from my few atheists friends in London. They just look at Nigeria as hopeless and they resign to living a life of suffering while smiling. I am even seeing some of this sentiment here on Nairaland.


Talk to an American or British atheist and you will notice the difference. Many of them are ready to speak up for their rights peacefully. There are those that speak in public, while there are those who choose to be active on the internet. There are also those who hold private groups and advice other atheists.



I am starting to believe that Nigerian atheists, christians and muslims all share one thing in common- they have been domesticated and silenced by corrupt and dictatorial leaders with fear, hunger and a lawless society. So, it doesnt matter if you're an intelligent freethinker that has freed himself of the shackles of religion in Nigeria, you have been domesticated not to speak against the ruling power. You cant even reason to start a silent revolution. Yes, a silent revolution- how many Nigerian atheists have had the simple guts of a coward to even anonymously send respectful letters/emails to religious leaders explaining the problems of religious intolerance or dogmatic beliefs. If that is even too much, where are the Nigerian atheist blogs? The only proper Nigerian atheist blog I know is dead http://nigerianatheist..co.uk/


One funny thing is that the only Nigerians that I know that give me hope for Nigerian atheism/secularism/agnosticism are the few afrocentric atheist Nigerians in diaspora. I have two friends who are desperate to see change in Nigeria. They have travelled to and fro to Nigeria in recent years and they are willing to see a change in Nigeria. A discussion with them has given me hope. One is starting his own blog, just like me to educate fellow Nigerians. The other already has laid the groundwork for a secular charity that would spread its mission statement that good can be done without religion. Apart from my personal friends, there are even black British and African Americans (who I have seen speaking in public) who are willing and interested in doing campaigns in Africa- and Nigeria is always one of the first countries on their mind.


I myself have a personal philosophy that one should leave a better world for his children and grandchildren to come. I can not fold my arms and wait/expect society to realise its problems by itself. Excessive religion and religious bigotry are problems of the Nigerian society. Rights are to be fought for when denied. I will peacefully challenge religious bigotry and I won't die trying, I will survive trying. I am a Nigerian and I feel that it is my duty to improve Nigeria as a citizen. I believe in a silent and non-violent revolution.


"the difference that sets two men apart is not religion, strength, power or genetics, it is how far he is willing to go to do what is right"- Logicboy.

Mind your buisness

No body is actually willing to be an outcast in Nigeria that is why. . .The Nigerian christians living in Europe, America and Australia and are forced to tolerate the atheists living there because of the way those societies are structured. . .When I tell Nigeriana in England, Germany,Sweden, Finland or Spain that I am an atheist I get words like " You sef don join them abi" or "All these white people sef dem don deceive you abi, god dey ohh". . .And it ends there. . .But in Nigeria I can't even try it because many people form their relationships based on religion or tribe, if you are from the same religion with them, the bond will be stronger and the level of confidence will increase, if you are not the bond is mostly superficial until you prove your self. . .The Nigerians living in the west have no choice but to tolerate the atheist living there. . .The average Nigerian is uneducated, very close minded, superstitious and a religious bigot. How do you expect him to be open minded and tolerate the atheist when he believes that atheism is a curse that needs to be defeated?. . .

engrtee: Mind your buisness

The christians and muslims in Nigeria do NOT mind their own business. . .

When am in Nigeria I keep my views on religion to myself but do drop hints on my stance.

I'm not in Nigeria but I am in west Africa, in a Muslim country, and I am open about my lack of belief.

On a positive note, the recent jihad in Mali is having just the opposite effect that the jihadis intended: many Muslims here are asking questions about the foundations of their beliefs. I'm doing everything I can to encourage them to read the Quran IN A LANGUAGE THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND instead of just reciting Arabic mindlessly. That way they can see that the Quran is just man made (along with the Bible of course...). Also some of the hadiths are crazy or downright vicious.

I'm sorry logicboy but if you've noticed something I used to say, its this: going round in circles, going round in circles. Its because thats what happens on nairaland, thats why I have stopped engaging in debates. Its not about learning, its about winning; its not about the truth, its about the pride.
I noticed at the end of the day no one learns anything, we just have a fair share of blood lashing. Its a blood thirsty battle field this place. And we all go doing the same thing over and over again day after day.
I'm tired of that!

And so I have chosen to try to understand things for myself, find out the best way to do things, find out what the best will be.
Of course it might seem like I lack the determination, but sometimes one must stop to think.

Meh. Most have been given more than enough to toss away the shackles, they simply don't want to. Security plays a huge part. Many religious would be very reluctant to even consider tossing religion away without ample cash reserves, ostracization will mean less chances of making dough. And of course they'd have to be comfortable with being independent and ostracized in general. Very few people fit this criteria, therefore very few people will make the jump.

In the west, money is not as much of an issue. As there are more resources there is therefore less need for strict moral codes (usually dictated by religions, and tribes in 9ja) to deal with the fear and management of how we do business with each other.

So basically, until there's more cash in 9ja, very little can be achieved as far as fundies are concerned. The only other option is benevolent dictatorships, and africans suck at that. It is a chicken and egg problem of sorts. If you toss out over religiosity all sorts of gains can be achieved as evidenced by the hdi, however before you toss out religiosity you need to have some of those gains, especially money and education, lol. The best one can do I think is to sacrifice and try to improve the economy and education to the point where people become less afraid to question authority. From that point on development becomes sustainable and accelerated on its own.

Obvious not all cases follow this pattern, some unique and isolated exceptions, like us and japan.

i will make sure Nigeria becomes a Pagan nation before i die. dont give up hope. keep fighting. these people who are holding our nation back are plain evil people. they think it is a joke! they are brainwashed. dont go easy on them. OUr Nation is at stake and this is an insult on our tribes and our ancestors and our dignity. please keep fighting. dont lose hope!

mazaje: No body is actually willing to be an outcast in Nigeria that is why. . .The Nigerian christians living in Europe, America and Australia and are forced to tolerate the atheists living there because of the way those societies are structured. . .When I tell Nigeriana in England, Germany,Sweden, Finland or Spain that I am an atheist I get words like " You sef don join them abi" or "All these white people sef dem don deceive you abi, god dey ohh". . .And it ends there. . .But in Nigeria I can't even try it because many people form their relationships based on religion or tribe, if you are from the same religion with them, the bond will be stronger and the level of confidence will increase, if you are not the bond is mostly superficial until you prove your self. . .The Nigerians living in the west have no choice but to tolerate the atheist living there. . .The average Nigerian is uneducated, very close minded, superstitious and a religious bigot. How do you expect him to be open minded and tolerate the atheist when he believes that atheism is a curse that needs to be defeated?. . .

I like your style....always calm and reasoned .

I agree with you and that is why I am calling for a silent revolution. We atheists need to meet privately and that is why we have facebook/emails to organise such meetings. There are many anonymous and peaceful ways of getting your message out.


I promise you guys something will change in Nigeria this year. Watch out for logicboy.

PAGAN 9JA:
i will make sure Nigeria becomes a Pagan nation before i die. dont give up hope. keep fighting. these people who are holding our nation back are plain evil people. they think it is a joke! they are brainwashed. dont go easy on them. OUr Nation is at stake and this is an insult on our tribes and our ancestors and our dignity. please keep fighting. dont lose hope!

Thanks for the encouragement

inurmind: I'm sorry logicboy but if you've noticed something I used to say, its this: going round in circles, going round in circles. Its because thats what happens on nairaland, thats why I have stopped engaging in debates. Its not about learning, its about winning; its not about the truth, its about the pride.
I noticed at the end of the day no one learns anything, we just have a fair share of blood lashing. Its a blood thirsty battle field this place. And we all go doing the same thing over and over again day after day.
I'm tired of that!

And so I have chosen to try to understand things for myself, find out the best way to do things, find out what the best will be.
Of course it might seem like I lack the determination, but sometimes one must stop to think.

Agreed. I understand you point about the battles here in the religion section

However, I am not only talking about Nairaland. I am also talking about actions outside Nairaland.

Logicboy03:


Thanks for the encouragement

Logicboy i know for a fact that you are not wasting your time here.

onetrack: I'm not in Nigeria but I am in west Africa, in a Muslim country, and I am open about my lack of belief.

On a positive note, the recent jihad in Mali is having just the opposite effect that the jihadis intended: many Muslims here are asking questions about the foundations of their beliefs. I'm doing everything I can to encourage them to read the Quran IN A LANGUAGE THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND instead of just reciting Arabic mindlessly. That way they can see that the Quran is just man made (along with the Bible of course...). Also some of the hadiths are crazy or downright vicious.

Wow...a muslim country? You have your work cut out for you menn.


I dont even dare carry my "logicboyness" to Northern Nigeria. They will kill before you can complete the word "non-muslim".

manmustwac: When am in Nigeria I keep my views on religion to myself but do drop hints on my stance.

Cool. But will you join a secular organisation in Nigeria that boasts of 10,000 members?

Logicboy03: Apart from my personal friends, there are even black British and African Americans (who I have seen speaking in public) who are willing and interested in doing campaigns in Africa- and Nigeria is always one of the first countries on their mind.

I disagree. those people need to mind their own business. their own communities are filled with religious bigots. i ave seen videos of their service in the usa. it is filled with akatas. let them go clean themselves first. enough of foreign aid. THe Nigerian problem is a Nigerian one that only Nigerians can solve.

This is a funny thread.

It marvels me when atheists claim they are not a 'religious' movement. You see, the first post shows that atheists are willing to spread their ideas as much as other religious ideologies. As a convinced muslim, i want to educate people about the beauty of Islam (both muslims and non-muslims) and why it just makes sense.

It seems the atheist isn't any different. He is convinced of his views and feels he needs to get the message across inspite of what he considers environmental challenges.

I agree with inurmind, you see debates on Nairaland are usually about ego. The atheists and theists are guilty of it. Private discussions are usually more honest. No-one wants to learn or bulge. It takes a certain degree of honesty and humility to accept the truth even if it is against you.

Personally, I am both intellectually and emotionally convinced about Islam. I do have a similar goal to share my limited knowledge with Nigerian muslims and make our community a better one Insha Allah (God-willing).

There are many better ways of making the world a better place than promoting godlessness.


Safe.

PAGAN 9JA:



I disagree. those people need to mind their own business. their own communities are filled with religious bigots. i ave seen videos of their service in the usa. it is filled with akatas. let them go clean themselves first. enough of foreign aid. THe Nigerian problem is a Nigerian one that only Nigerians can solve.

Well, I can speak for UK....many youths in the UK are not religious. Only some foolish African and Arabs ones.

I agree with you on the African American ones though....AKATAVILLE!!!

tbaba1234: This is a funny thread.

It marvels me when atheists claim they are not a 'religious' movement. You see, the first post shows that atheists are willing to spread their ideas as much as other religious ideologies. As a convinced muslim, i want to educate people about the beauty of Islam (both muslims and non-muslims) and why it just makes sense.

It seems the atheist isn't any different. He is convinced of his views and feels he needs to get the message across inspite of what he considers environmental challenges.

I agree with inurmind, you see debates on Nairaland are usually about ego. The atheists and theists are guilty of it. Private discussions are usually more honest. No-one wants to learn or bulge. It takes a certain degree of honesty and humility to accept the truth even if it is against you.

Personally, I am both intellectually and emotionally convinced about Islam. I do have a similar goal to share my limited knowledge with Nigerian muslims and make our community a better one Insha Allah (God-willing).

There are many better ways of making the world a better place than promoting godlessness.


Safe.

i dont want to beat about the bush. tell your fellow s to stop killing us! YOU HEAR ME?

AND WHY DID YOUR PROPHET KILL AND ENSLAVE SO MANY PAGANS?!

HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE SUCH MAN?!

tbaba1234: This is a funny thread.

It marvels me when atheists claim they are not a 'religious' movement. You see, the first post shows that atheists are willing to spread their ideas as much as other religious ideologies. As a convinced muslim, i want to educate people about the beauty of Islam (both muslims and non-muslims) and why it just makes sense.

It seems the atheist isn't any different. He is convinced of his views and feels he needs to get the message across inspite of what he considers environmental challenges.

I agree with inurmind, you see debates on Nairaland are usually about ego. The atheists and theists are guilty of it. Private discussions are usually more honest. No-one wants to learn or bulge. It takes a certain degree of honesty and humility to accept the truth even if it is against you.

Personally, I am both intellectually and emotionally convinced about Islam. I do have a similar goal to share my limited knowledge with Nigerian muslims and make our community a better one Insha Allah (God-willing).

There are many better ways of making the world a better place than promoting godlessness.


Safe.

You have seen the destruction caused by your religion and you still want to spread it. Even if your version or interpetation of the Quran is right, it is still problematic.


Imagine a semi-literate high school dropout is given the Quran to read. He barely knows English. How is he going to know the historical and metaphorical meaning of this verse;

Surah 2;191
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith

A smart muslim like you will understand the historical context of this verse and say that it was revealed during war times and in self-defense. The semi-literate Northerner (millions of them) will look at this verse and believe that whoever insults Allah (atheists/christians) have struck the first blow, and they must be killed i.e the semi-literate muslim doesnt know the proper context as he didnt learn history/hermeneutics.

The Quran is actaully destructive in the case above. Atheism is not a religion but a disbelief in god. Spreading disbelief in the toothfairy is not evangelism. It is an evident truth.


No man murdered anyone from reading the secular humanist manifesto

Logicboy03:


Cool. But will you join a secular organisation in Nigeria that boasts of 10,000 members?

here was i fooled into thinking atheism wasnt a religious movement.

davidylan:

here was i fooled into thinking atheism wasnt a religious movement.

a confused bunch indeed !

tbaba1234: This is a funny thread.

It marvels me when atheists claim they are not a 'religious' movement. You see, the first post shows that atheists are willing to spread their ideas as much as other religious ideologies. As a convinced muslim, i want to educate people about the beauty of Islam (both muslims and non-muslims) and why it just makes sense.

It seems the atheist isn't any different. He is convinced of his views and feels he needs to get the message across inspite of what he considers environmental challenges.

I agree with inurmind, you see debates on Nairaland are usually about ego. The atheists and theists are guilty of it. Private discussions are usually more honest. No-one wants to learn or bulge. It takes a certain degree of honesty and humility to accept the truth even if it is against you.

Personally, I am both intellectually and emotionally convinced about Islam. I do have a similar goal to share my limited knowledge with Nigerian muslims and make our community a better one Insha Allah (God-willing).

There are many better ways of making the world a better place than promoting godlessness.


Safe.

www.google.com/m?q=religion+definition&client=ms-opera-mini&channel=new

re·li·gion - /riˈlijən/
Noun:
1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman
controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods
2. Details of belief as taught or discussed


I'm not sure how their wanting to discuss ideas makes atheism a religion. So some atheists want to enact some sort of change through education, I am still very confused as to how that makes atheism a religion, or even a religious movement. Perhaps you've come across atheist doctrine which dictates we all proselytize? Proselytize what doctrine in particular? This is of course ignoring the fact that @logic is complaining because most of us really don't give a $hit, yes? It's mostly fundies that concern many of us, a cancer by any definition. As for religious that mind their biz and are reasonable, why in the world should we be bothered? You and your cancer that cannot let be on the other hand...

And that last about promoting godlessness, ok. But are you suggesting the godliness you espouse is any better? You do live in the west, yes? Anyhow, never mind that, I agree with you. Look at 9ja and the wonderful amount of spiritual power we generate, observe the stellar amounts of progress we've achieved in the arts suffering and smiling and buffoonry

Peace

davidylan:

here was i fooled into thinking atheism wasnt a religious movement.

how is that a religious movement just because it has many members. next you will say Nigerian Soccer fan club is a religious movement! dumb xtians. .

PAGAN 9JA:


how is that a religious movement just because it has many members. next you will say Nigerian Soccer fan club is a religious movement! dumb xtians. .

well perhaps we should start with DEFINING what a religious movement is...

Religion is an organized collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.

Was that not a call for atheist to organize behind a particular belief system that relates to humanity and spirituality or the lack thereof?

You seem to be completely confused.

Logicboy03:

Wow...a muslim country? You have your work cut out for you menn.


I dont even dare carry my "logicboyness" to Northern Nigeria. They will kill before you can complete the word "non-muslim".

Well, I don't stand on the street outside of mosques shouting 'THERE IS NO ALLAH!!!!!' at the people inside the mosque, but I certainly work on some people, particularly those whose weakness I already know, like ones who drink alcohol or who eat pork....

onetrack:

Well, I don't stand on the street outside of mosques shouting 'THERE IS NO ALLAH!!!!!' at the people inside the mosque, but I certainly work on some people, particularly those whose weakness I already know, like ones who drink alcohol or who eat pork....

If there is anything we can take from this post it is that:

1. Atheists EVANGELIZE just as well as anyone else

2. their primary tool of evangelism is manipulation

davidylan:

well perhaps we should start with DEFINING what a religious movement is...

Religion is an organized collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.

Was that not a call for atheist to organize behind a particular belief system that relates to humanity and spirituality or the lack thereof?

You seem to be completely confused.

you just used the definiton for your own personal gains. you skipped cultural systems and spirituality !

atheists dont do neither. even the nigerian football club is an organization and is in relation with humanity (NIGERIANS) .


you are a liar yourself.

Logicboy03:



You have seen the destruction caused by your religion and you still want to spread it. Even if your version or interpetation of the Quran is right, it is still problematic.


Imagine a semi-literate high school dropout is given the Quran to read. He barely knows English. How is he going to know the historical and metaphorical meaning of this verse;

Surah 2;191
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith

A smart muslim like you will understand the historical context of this verse and say that it was revealed during war times and in self-defense. The semi-literate Northerner (millions of them) will look at this verse and believe that whoever insults Allah (atheists/christians) have struck the first blow, and they must be killed i.e the semi-literate muslim doesnt know the proper context as he didnt learn history/hermeneutics.

The Quran is actaully destructive in the case above. Atheism is not a religion but a disbelief in god. Spreading disbelief in the toothfairy is not evangelism. It is an evident truth.


No man murdered anyone from reading the secular humanist manifesto

I also see the destruction done by secular countries in Iraq and Afghanistan so on... E.t.c... The Iraq war was probably the easiest marketing tool for extreme groups... I have a american iraqi brother whose uncle was killed by US troops on the street. He was not a combatant. He was born in the country that killed his uncle.

In promoting their secular Ideas, there is no family in Iraq that has not been touched by their destruction. I have another Iraqi friend who can't even bring himself to talk about the Iraqi invasion. Look at what happened in falluja. In a just world, George Bush and the US Army would be facing a war crimes tribunal.

Invasion of muslim countries, drone attacks on villages etc have done more than it's fair share in building these groups you complain about and the resentment amongst muslims that they need.

You fail to quote the ayah before.

Fight in God’s cause against those who fight you, but do not overstep the limits:c God does not love those who overstep the limits (Surah 2:190)

Clearly, the discussion is clearly about those who fight you.... There is also a warning not to overstep the limits. This can be understood by any anyone.

Sometimes what you need to do is give a dog a 'bad name' and no one asks questions: call them insurgents and terrorists. No one asks any question after that.

davidylan:

If there is anything we can take from this post it is that:

1. Atheists EVANGELIZE just as well as anyone else

2. their primary tool of evangelism is manipulation

Yes. I do ask people to question deeply held beliefs. Kind of funny to think of myself as an evangelist when I'm actually encouraging people not to believe anything blindly. Kind of like scientists.

There are so many Nigerians in the detention centres in the UK. So many of them have been there for months and even years. We all know the struggles we face,our country is being raped by the same Colonial masters who tried to eradicate our tradition and gave us the evil religion called CHRISTIANITY. These people are only trying to survive ,to seek greener pastures in Europe. I do not know how many British personals who got deported from Nigeria.

I wrote a letter and email to the Nigerian high commissioner in Uk concerning the flight of Nigerian citizens in the hands of UKBA. No reply as usual. These people need our help and support. If a British,French,American national is being detained or adopted in any country in the world,their government gets involved immediately . Why is our government different? It shows we are not worth anything to them. I may not be in that situation,but i write for those without a voice,those who are scared of being thrown back to where they don't want to be. In a country that preaches human right and tolerance for humans, why are Black people treated any less? A human should be allowed to live anywhere they chose to.

Since we cannot rely on our government, we need to find a solution,otherwise it will continue. This i know is one of Nigeria's many problems,but we cannot solve it by calling some God whose name had been used to rape our people's minds.I hope through this articles, people become aware of this situation and hopefully, we get a solution.

PAGAN 9JA:



you just used the definiton for your own personal gains. you skipped cultural systems and spirituality !

atheists dont do neither. even the nigerian football club is an organization and is in relation with humanity (NIGERIANS) .


you are a liar yourself.

lol i dont get your point. You say i ignored cultural systems... well christians dont congregate for cultural reasons either no?
I didnt skip spirituality... infact i mentioned it quite clearly in that post - lack of spirituality is a key attribute of the atheistic religion.

The others i didnt skip are all part of the definition right? You accuse me of skipping some when your grouse is that you would like to skip the ones that expose you as nothing but another religious body in disguise?