@Sysuser


I have decided not to reply your post just because of the respect I have for May Kelly but believe you me that I have stored it on my pc and will have to post it when the need arises.

@babs787 , indeed you're a man of integrity.

@May Kelly

indeed you're a man of integrity.

Thanks very much, I appreciate and I still believe that we can still live in peace regardless of our differences. I respect you so much just like my other sisters in the like of Mukina, Stranger26, Ayinba etc.

May God continue to be with you and your household.

I JUST WANT US CHRISTIANS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE READY FOR THE SECOND COMING OF THE LORD , SIMPLY BECAUSE GOD PROMISED TO DESTROY THE WORLD DURING THE TIME OF NOAH AND HE KEPT HIS PROMISE. LIKEWISE HE HAS PROMISED TO DESTROY THE WORLD WITH FIRE THIS TIME AND I BELIEVE HE IS GOING TO KEEP HIS PROMISE WHETHER WE ARE READY FOR HIM OR NOT. AS SUCH WE NEED TO KEEP AND MAKE OURSELVES READY SO AS TO AVOID BE PARTAKERS IN THE PUNISHMENT TO COME


The constant barage of insults , persecution and ridicule from SCOFFERS (M.u.slims , Atheist, Evolutionist, Catholics etc) on True Christians who dare to speak the truth against their lies and idolatory is actually nothing new.
Below is what the bible has to say about them,


2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Lets note the following from the verses above:

1. Scoffers (someone who jeers or mocks or treats something with contempt or calls out in derision) = Evolutionist, islamists, atheists

2. Scoffers walk after their own lusts (selfishness, murders, suppression of truth, homosexuality, animal rights movement nonsense, humanism) and say that Christ would not come, things continue as they always have from the beginning (shown by when they said that evolution has always being there from the beginning)

3. People that make jest of the bible and everything in it (Creation etc) are not new they had existed before even in the perished world of the time of Noah.

4. The world during the time of Noah perished, via[b] Water[/b].

5. Our world during our time (or time of our children) would also perish, this time via Fire

Illuminati / Freemasonry / Satanic Symbolism


Fez

One of the most widely recognized symbols in all of Shrinedom is the red fez. The Shrine fez, adopted by the Shrine's founders in 1872.



As a Mason goes through the 32 degrees of the Scottish rite, he ends up giving worship to every Egyptian pagan god, the gods of Persia, gods of India, Greek gods, Babylonian gods, and others. As you come to the 17th degree, the Masons claim that they will give you the password that will give him entrance at the judgment day to the Masonic deity, the great architect of the universe. It is very interesting that this secret password is "Abaddon".

Revelation chapter 9;11 it says, "The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss [the bottomless pit], and smoke came out of the Abyss like that of a great furnace, " (It goes on to describe those in the abyss, then continues) They had a king over them, the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, " The 'angel' of the Abyss (Hell) is really the chief demon whose name is Abaddon. Masons claim then, that the deity they worship is Abaddon!

In order for a person to become a Shriner, he must not only go through all the degrees of Masonry, make all those blood-curdling oaths, worship gods who are not gods except they are of Satan, but he must make a blood both of allegiance to a.l.lah as his god and mohammmed as his prophet. The Shriner is then given a red fez with an i's.lamic sword and crescent jeweled on the front of it. This originates from 7th century Arabia when the Moslems, under the leadership of mohammmed, slaughtered all Christians who would not bow down to a.l.lah. a.l.lah, by the way, was not another (generic) name given to God by mohammmed; a.l.lah is the tribal deity --the moon god-- of mohammmed; it was the name of the god in the tribe that mohammmed was born into. That is why every mosque today has a crescent moon on the top of its spire.

Now when mohammmed's army of men, out to slaughter all the 'infidels', came to the city of Fez, in Morocco, they found a community of Christians. After killing all the Christians there with their i's.lamic-style swords, they took their hats (called a fez) and dipped them in the blood of the Christians, and wore the fezzes throughout the land glorying in their victory over Christianity. Today Shriner's put on red fezzes (representing the hats dipped in the blood of Christians) with the i's.lamic sword and crescent showing their allegiance to a.l.lah and mohammmed (and the defeat of Christianity). Men in Obscene Red Fezzes!

Check it out from this website yourself.


http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/symbols3_index.htm

Truth has come, falsehood will perissh. Keep posting your c--p. I am sure your fellow thickheads are reading. Check your history very well, there is no association of Islam with any symbols or drawings. But then if you did, you would appear really smart.

SysUser:

Check it out from this website yourself.
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/symbols3_index.htm

IS NOT NECCESSARY. Is meant for athesist only!

@Sysuser

Are you ok at all?

Here is sample of the STUPIDITY AND LIES PROPAGATED BY IS.L.A.M, are part of the reason why i don't believe that is.l.a.m is from the same GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that i serve and hence why i reject the replacement of the word A.L.L.AH with GOD:





http://www.carm.org/islam/hadith_interesting2.htm

Interesting Quotes from the Hadith
Part two.

Allah made Adam 60 cubits high (generally a cubit was 18 inches. Therefore, Adam was 90 feet tall)
The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Water flowed out from under the fingernails of Muhammad
We used to consider miracles as Allah's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with Allah's Apostle on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from Allah." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of Allah's Apostle , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying Allah, when it was being eaten (by him). Volume 4, Book 56, Number 779, Narrated 'Abdullah:

A man was blown by a wind to a distant mountain
We took part in the holy battle of Tabuk in the company of the Prophet and when we arrived at the Wadi-al-Qura, there was a woman in her garden. The Prophet asked his companions to estimate the amount of the fruits in the garden, and Allah's Apostle estimated it at ten Awsuq (One Wasaq = 60 Sa's) and 1 Sa'= 3 kg. approximately). The Prophet said to that lady, "Check what your garden will yield." When we reached Tabuk, the Prophet said, "There will be a strong wind to-night and so no one should stand and whoever has a camel, should fasten it." So we fastened our camels. A strong wind blew at night and a man stood up and he was blown away to a mountain called Taiy, The King of Aila sent a white mule and a sheet for wearing to the Prophet as a present, and wrote to the Prophet that his people would stay in their place (and will pay Jizya taxation.) Volume 2, Book 24, Number 559, Narrated Abu Humaid As-Sa'idi

Muhammad is ordered by Allah to fight all people until they worship Allah
Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah." Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24, Narrated Ibn 'Umar.

The Qur'an was revealed in the dialect of the Quraish [/b]
"(The Caliph 'Uthman ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Said bin Al-As, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham to write the Quran in the form of a book (Mushafs) and said to them. "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the Quran, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the Quran was revealed in this dialect." So they did it." Volume 6, Book 61, Number 507, Narrated Anas bin Malik.

The Qur'an was not collected together by Muhammad
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people! of Yamama had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found 'Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), "Umar has come to me and said: "Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the! Qur'an (i.e. those who knew the Quran by heart) on the day of the Battle of Yalmama, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" 'Umar said, "By Allah, that is a good project. "Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). 'You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it in one book)." By Allah If they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur'an. Then I said to Abu Bakr, "How will you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" Abu Bakr replied, "By Allah, it is a good project." Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept his idea until Allah opened my chest for what He had opened the chests of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. So I started looking for the Qur'an and collecting it from (what was written on) palmed stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, till I found the last Verse of Surat At-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The Verse is: 'Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty, (till the end of Surat-Baraa' (At-Tauba) (9.128-129) Then the complete manuscripts (copy) of the Qur'an remained with Abu Bakr till he died, then with 'Umar till the end of his life, and then with Hafsa, the daughter of 'Umar." Volume 6, Book 61, Number 509, Narrated Zaid bin Thabit.

The Qur'an was compiled because of differences among various manuscripts
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23) Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510, Narrated Anas bin Malik.

A Qur'anic verse is cancelled
The Prophet sent seventy men from the tribe of Bani Salim to the tribe of Bani Amir. When they reached there, my maternal uncle said to them, "I will go ahead of you, and if they allow me to convey the message of Allah's Apostle (it will be all right); otherwise you will remain close to me." So he went ahead of them and the pagans granted him security But while he was reporting the message of the Prophet , they beckoned to one of their men who stabbed him to death. My maternal uncle said, "Allah is Greater! By the Lord of the Kaba, I am successful." After that they attached the rest of the party and killed them all except a lame man who went up to the top of the mountain. (Hammam, a sub-narrator said, "I think another man was saved along with him)." Gabriel informed the Prophet that they (i.e the martyrs) met their Lord, and He was pleased with them and made them pleased. We used to recite, "Inform our people that we have met our Lord, He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased " Later on this Quranic Verse was cancelled. The Prophet invoked Allah for forty days to curse the murderers from the tribe of Ral, Dhakwan, Bani Lihyan and Bam Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and his Apostle." Volume 4, Book 52, Number 57, Narrated Anas. See also Volume 4, Book 52, See also, 69, and 299.

Various Qur'an manuscripts had missing verses
Zaid bin Thabit said, "When the Quran was compiled from various written manuscripts, one of the Verses of Surat Al-Ahzab was missing which I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting. I could not find it except with Khuzaima bin Thabjt Al-Ansari, whose witness Allah's Apostle regarded as equal to the witness of two men. And the Verse was:-- "Among the believers are men who have been true to what they covenanted with Allah." (33.23) Volume 4, Book 52, Number 62, Narrated Kharija bin Zaid.

Muhammad was once bewitched
"Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400, Narrated Aisha.

Muhammad said that one wing of a house fly has a disease and the other wing has the cure
The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Allah forgave a prostitute of her sins because she gave water to a dying dog
Allah's Apostle said, "A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 538, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Angels don't enter houses with dogs in them
The Prophet said, "Angels do not enter a house witch has either a dog or a picture in it." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 539, Narrated Abu Talha.

Jinn eat dung and animal bones
That once he was in the, company of the Prophet carrying a water pot for his ablution and for cleaning his private parts. While he was following him carrying it(i.e. the pot), the Prophet said, "Who is this?" He said, "I am Abu Huraira." The Prophet said, "Bring me stones in order to clean my private parts, and do not bring any bones or animal dung." Abu Huraira went on narrating: So I brought some stones, carrying them in the corner of my robe till I put them by his side and went away. When he finished, I walked with him and asked, "What about the bone and the animal dung?" He said, "They are of the food of Jinns. The delegate of Jinns of (the city of) Nasibin came to me--and how nice those Jinns were--and asked me for the remains of the human food. I invoked Allah for them that they would never pass by a bone or animal dung but find food on them." Volume 5, Book 58, Number 200, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Women and sons can be mortgaged
". . . Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369, Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah.

The Angel Gabriel had 600 wings.
I asked Sir about the Statement of Allah: 'And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer. So did Allah convey the Inspiration to His slave (Gabriel) and then he (Gabriel) conveyed that to Muhammad.' (53.10) He said, "Abdullah (bin Mas'ud) informed us that Muhammad had seen Gabriel with six hundred wings." Volume 6, Book 60, Number 380, Narrated assailant.

The moon was cut into two pieces
During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle the moon was split into two parts; one part remained over the mountain, and the other part went beyond the mountain. On that, Allah's Apostle said, "Witness this miracle." 388The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts. The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)." Volume 6, Book 60, Number 387-388, Narrated Ibn Masud and Abdullah. See also 389-391.

A fever is from the heat of hell fire
I used to sit with Ibn 'Abbas in Mecca. Once I had a fever and he said (to me), "Cool your fever with Zam-zam water, for Allah's Apostle said: 'It, (the Fever) is from the heat of the (Hell) Fire; so, cool it with water (or Zam-zam water)." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 483, Narrated Abu Jamra Ad-Dabi.

SysUser:

Here is sample of the STUPIDITY AND LIES PROPAGATED BY IS.L.A.M, are part of the reason why i don't believe that is.l.a.m is from the same GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that i serve and hence why i reject the replacement of the word A.L.L.AH with GOD:





http://www.carm.org/the great religion/hadith_interesting2.htm

Interesting Quotes from the Hadith
Part two.

God made Adam 60 cubits high (generally a cubit was 18 inches. Therefore, Adam was 90 feet tall)
The Prophet said, "God created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and God's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Water flowed out from under the fingernails of The Great Prophet
We used to consider miracles as God's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with God's Apostle on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from God." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of God's Apostle , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying God, when it was being eaten (by him). Volume 4, Book 56, Number 779, Narrated 'Abdullah:

A man was blown by a wind to a distant mountain
We took part in the holy battle of Tabuk in the company of the Prophet and when we arrived at the Wadi-al-Qura, there was a woman in her garden. The Prophet asked his companions to estimate the amount of the fruits in the garden, and God's Apostle estimated it at ten Awsuq (One Wasaq = 60 Sa's) and 1 Sa'= 3 kg. approximately). The Prophet said to that lady, "Check what your garden will yield." When we reached Tabuk, the Prophet said, "There will be a strong wind to-night and so no one should stand and whoever has a camel, should fasten it." So we fastened our camels. A strong wind blew at night and a man stood up and he was blown away to a mountain called Taiy, The King of Aila sent a white mule and a sheet for wearing to the Prophet as a present, and wrote to the Prophet that his people would stay in their place (and will pay Jizya taxation.) Volume 2, Book 24, Number 559, Narrated Abu Humaid As-Sa'idi

The Great Prophet is ordered by God to fight all people until they worship God
God's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by God) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but God and that The Great Prophet is God's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Great Religious laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by God." Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24, Narrated Ibn 'Umar.

The Qur'an was revealed in the dialect of the Quraish [/b]
"(The Caliph 'Uthman ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Said bin Al-As, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham to write the The Great Book in the form of a book (Mushafs) and said to them. "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the The Great Book, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the The Great Book was revealed in this dialect." So they did it." Volume 6, Book 61, Number 507, Narrated Anas bin Malik.

The Qur'an was not collected together by The Great Prophet
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people! of Yamama had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found 'Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), "Umar has come to me and said: "Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the! Qur'an (i.e. those who knew the The Great Book by heart) on the day of the Battle of Yalmama, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something which God's Apostle did not do?" 'Umar said, "By God, that is a good project. "Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till God opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). 'You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for God's Apostle. So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it in one book)." By God If they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur'an. Then I said to Abu Bakr, "How will you do something which God's Apostle did not do?" Abu Bakr replied, "By God, it is a good project." Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept his idea until God opened my chest for what He had opened the chests of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. So I started looking for the Qur'an and collecting it from (what was written on) palmed stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, till I found the last Verse of Surat At-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The Verse is: 'Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (The Great Prophet) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty, (till the end of Surat-Baraa' (At-Tauba) (9.128-129) Then the complete manuscripts (copy) of the Qur'an remained with Abu Bakr till he died, then with 'Umar till the end of his life, and then with Hafsa, the daughter of 'Umar." Volume 6, Book 61, Number 509, Narrated Zaid bin Thabit.

The Qur'an was compiled because of differences among various manuscripts
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (The Great Book) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Great One province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear God's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with God.' (33.23) Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510, Narrated Anas bin Malik.

A Qur'anic verse is cancelled
The Prophet sent seventy men from the tribe of Bani Salim to the tribe of Bani Amir. When they reached there, my maternal uncle said to them, "I will go ahead of you, and if they allow me to convey the message of God's Apostle (it will be all right); otherwise you will remain close to me." So he went ahead of them and the pagans granted him security But while he was reporting the message of the Prophet , they beckoned to one of their men who stabbed him to death. My maternal uncle said, "God is Greater! By the Lord of the Kaba, I am successful." After that they attached the rest of the party and killed them all except a lame man who went up to the top of the mountain. (Hammam, a sub-narrator said, "I think another man was saved along with him)." Gabriel informed the Prophet that they (i.e the martyrs) met their Lord, and He was pleased with them and made them pleased. We used to recite, "Inform our people that we have met our Lord, He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased " Later on this Quranic Verse was cancelled. The Prophet invoked God for forty days to curse the murderers from the tribe of Ral, Dhakwan, Bani Lihyan and Bam Usaiya who disobeyed God and his Apostle." Volume 4, Book 52, Number 57, Narrated Anas. See also Volume 4, Book 52, See also, 69, and 299.

Various Qur'an manuscripts had missing verses
Zaid bin Thabit said, "When the The Great Book was compiled from various written manuscripts, one of the Verses of Surat Al-Ahzab was missing which I used to hear God's Apostle reciting. I could not find it except with Khuzaima bin Thabjt Al-Ansari, whose witness God's Apostle regarded as equal to the witness of two men. And the Verse was:-- "Among the believers are men who have been true to what they covenanted with God." (33.23) Volume 4, Book 52, Number 62, Narrated Kharija bin Zaid.

The Great Prophet was once bewitched
"Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400, Narrated Aisha.

The Great Prophet said that one wing of a house fly has a disease and the other wing has the cure
The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537, Narrated Abu Huraira.

God forgave a prostitute of her sins because she gave water to a dying dog
God's Apostle said, "A prostitute was forgiven by God, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, God forgave her because of that." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 538, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Angels don't enter houses with dogs in them
The Prophet said, "Angels do not enter a house witch has either a dog or a picture in it." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 539, Narrated Abu Talha.

Jinn eat dung and animal bones
That once he was in the, company of the Prophet carrying a water pot for his ablution and for cleaning his private parts. While he was following him carrying it(i.e. the pot), the Prophet said, "Who is this?" He said, "I am Abu Huraira." The Prophet said, "Bring me stones in order to clean my private parts, and do not bring any bones or animal dung." Abu Huraira went on narrating: So I brought some stones, carrying them in the corner of my robe till I put them by his side and went away. When he finished, I walked with him and asked, "What about the bone and the animal dung?" He said, "They are of the food of Jinns. The delegate of Jinns of (the city of) Nasibin came to me--and how nice those Jinns were--and asked me for the remains of the human food. I invoked God for them that they would never pass by a bone or animal dung but find food on them." Volume 5, Book 58, Number 200, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Women and sons can be mortgaged
". . . Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." The Great Prophet bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369, Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah.

The Angel Gabriel had 600 wings.
I asked Sir about the Statement of God: 'And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer. So did God convey the Inspiration to His slave (Gabriel) and then he (Gabriel) conveyed that to The Great Prophet.' (53.10) He said, "Abdullah (bin Mas'ud) informed us that The Great Prophet had seen Gabriel with six hundred wings." Volume 6, Book 60, Number 380, Narrated assailant.

The moon was cut into two pieces
During the lifetime of God's Apostle the moon was split into two parts; one part remained over the mountain, and the other part went beyond the mountain. On that, God's Apostle said, "Witness this miracle." 388The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts. The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)." Volume 6, Book 60, Number 387-388, Narrated Ibn Masud and Abdullah. See also 389-391.

A fever is from the heat of hell fire
I used to sit with Ibn 'Abbas in Mecca. Once I had a fever and he said (to me), "Cool your fever with Zam-zam water, for God's Apostle said: 'It, (the Fever) is from the heat of the (Hell) Fire; so, cool it with water (or Zam-zam water)." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 483, Narrated Abu Jamra Ad-Dabi.

What does you bible say about picking out the dirt in someone else's eye?

Are you sure similar stupidity, lies and absurdities could not be found in your bible?

Here is sample of the STUPIDITY AND LIES PROPAGATED BY IS.L.A.M, are part of the reason why i don't believe that is.l.a.m is from the same GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that i serve and hence why i reject the replacement of the word A.L.L.AH with GOD:

http://www.carm.org/i.s.l.a.m/Koran_contradictions.htm




Contradictions in the Qur'an


The Qur'an states that it is a perfect book preserved on tablets in heaven (Surah 85:21-22). If the Qur'an is a perfect book from A.l.l.a.h, then there shouldn't be any contradictions in it. Of course, the m.u.s.li.ms will deny any contradictions exist in the Qur'an, but they do. Some of the contradictions below could be debated, but some of them are clearly contradictions.

A contradiction occurs when one statement on a subject excludes the possibility of another. The first one here is a good example. In Surah 19:67, it states that man was created out of nothing. In 15:26, man is created from clay. Since clay is something, we have a contradiction since "nothing" excludes the possibility of "clay." Both cannot be true.

All quotes from the Qur'an, unless otherwise specified, are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur'an online.

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before A.l.l.a.h is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).


Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in A.l.l.a.h hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And A.l.l.a.h heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
"And an announcement from A.l.l.a.h and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that A.l.l.a.h and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate A.l.l.a.h. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for A.l.l.a.h is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
Fight those who believe not in A.l.l.a.h nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by A.l.l.a.h and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).


The first m.u.s.li.m was Muhammmad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
"And I [Muhammmad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to A.l.l.a.h in i.s.l.a.m," (39:12).
"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." A.l.l.a.h said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! A.l.l.a.h hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of i.s.l.a.m," (2:132).


Does A.l.l.a.h forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
A.l.l.a.h forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with A.l.l.a.h is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us A.l.l.a.h in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).


Are A.l.l.a.h's decrees changed or not?
"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of A.l.l.a.h. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that A.l.l.a.h Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
When We substitute one revelation for another,- and A.l.l.a.h knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).
Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to A.l.l.a.h in i.s.l.a.m). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

Is wine consumption good or bad?
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

Here is sample of the STUPIDITY AND LIES PROPAGATED BY IS.L.A.M, are part of the reason why i don't believe that is.l.a.m is from the same GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that i serve and hence why i reject the replacement of the word A.L.L.AH with GOD:

http://www.carm.org/i.s.l.a.m/Koran_contradictions.htm




Contradictions in the Qur'an


The Qur'an states that it is a perfect book preserved on tablets in heaven (Surah 85:21-22).  If the Qur'an is a perfect book from A.l.l.a.h, then there shouldn't be any contradictions in it.  Of course, the m.u.s.li.ms will deny any contradictions exist in the Qur'an, but they do.  Some of the contradictions below could be debated, but some of them are clearly contradictions.  
   
A contradiction occurs when one statement on a subject excludes the possibility of another.  The first one here is a good example.  In Surah 19:67, it states that man was created out of nothing.  In 15:26, man is created from clay.  Since clay is something, we have a contradiction since "nothing" excludes the possibility of "clay."  Both cannot be true.

All quotes from the Qur'an, unless otherwise specified, are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur'an online.

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before A.l.l.a.h is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).


Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?  
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in A.l.l.a.h hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And A.l.l.a.h heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
"And an announcement from A.l.l.a.h and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that A.l.l.a.h and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate A.l.l.a.h. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for A.l.l.a.h is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
Fight those who believe not in A.l.l.a.h nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by A.l.l.a.h and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).


The first m.u.s.li.m was Muhammmad?  Abraham?  Jacob? Moses?
"And I [Muhammmad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to A.l.l.a.h in i.s.l.a.m," (39:12).
"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." A.l.l.a.h said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! A.l.l.a.h hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of i.s.l.a.m," (2:132).


Does A.l.l.a.h forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?  
A.l.l.a.h forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with A.l.l.a.h is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48).  Also 4:116
The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us A.l.l.a.h in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).


Are A.l.l.a.h's decrees changed or not?
"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of A.l.l.a.h. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that A.l.l.a.h Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
When We substitute one revelation for another,- and A.l.l.a.h knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).
Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?  
"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to A.l.l.a.h in i.s.l.a.m). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!  This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!"  So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

Is wine consumption good or bad?  
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

@SysUser: Do you know that the US Supreme court Building facade has a bust of the last prophet of Is"lam? Please google Prophet Mu ha mm ad on court buildings. You see people need to know the truth. Stop going about in the pitchblack darkness!

its obvious you don't understand the difference between "having a world government" and being saved, otherwise you would not be correlating military conquest or legal conquest with the salvation of men.

I all just done is try to expose a few lies and decetits in i.sl.a.m that you have either suppressed or violently rejected.

the information i am providing is not for you alone to either receive or reject it, Heaven would rejoice if you become saved, however i believe heaven would not force you to believe in God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

@SysUser: Whats in heaven? Jesus? Can you confirm his true state, his condition? You cannnot! Its impossible. All you go about saying is the words of Paul and the gang. Then they are re, re, re,, revised, then, re, re, re,, reviewed, re, re, re,, reeditioned. (I use MC Usman format here, just to tell you how " water is greatly too much than gari here, in the book that you relied upon).

I do not enter a religion that is man made. I am very satisfied with Isl"am. Insha"Allah, I will die on it.

@Sysuser


You can post your lies for all I care and if you think that you are ready for an intelligent discussion and ready to learn, moving away from your ignorant state to that of knowledge, give me your supposed contradictions one at a time and we discuss and not littering threads with what you will not be able to defend when we start.

So if you are ready to learn, let me have them one at a time and we discuss rather than your unreasonable way of posting.

Just like a typical .m.u.s.lim (son of belial) behaves, when the bible suite your lies , you quote and use it, however when it does not suite your purposes , you claim it is corrupted,

YET SOMEHOW YOU PEOPLE MAGICALLY KNOW WHEN THE BIBLE IS CORRUPT AND WHEN IT IS NOT, DESPITE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE AN ORIGINAL VERSION TO USE AS THE REFERENCE, please stop deceiving yourself to stupor

Concerning the bible,

1. Who corrupted it.
2. How do you know that it is corrupted
3. Which original version did you use to know that it is corrupted
4. Can we also check those original version that you use to know that it is corrupted.
5. How come your "uncorrupted" q'uran has so many nonsense and contradictions that its makes "Harry Potter" look like a holy book
6. Can a demonically possessed man speak for God, if Yes, how can you know when he is speaking for God or when he is speaking for the demon that possessed him.


-----------------------------------------


By the way babs787, the is no need to be equivocating and dodging,, YOU CAN EASILY PICK AND CHOOSE FROM SOME OF THE LIES AND CONTRADICTIONS OF I.S.L.A.M THAT I HAVE ALREADY POSTED, WITHOUT NEED FOR ME TO CONTACT YOU AGAIN, AT LEAST THOSE ONES THAT I HAVE ALREADY POSTED ARE ALSO OPEN FOR DISCUSSION , SO PICK , CHOOSE AND DISCUSS,

,

Question:

1. Do i believe Mohammmed who was a peadophile, murderer, adulterer, demonically possessed, contradicts himself, who could not perform a single miracle, sex maniac, hypocrite

or


2. Do i believe Jesus Christ ,


THE ANSWER IS VERY CLEAR AND EASY, DON'T YOU THINK

SysUser:

Just like a typical .m.u.s.lim (son of belial) behaves, when the bible suite your lies , you quote and use it, however when it does not suite your purposes , you claim it is corrupted,


By the way babs787, the is no need to be equivocating and dodging,, YOU CAN EASILY PICK AND CHOOSE FROM SOME OF THE LIES AND CONTRADICTIONS OF I.S.L.A.M THAT I HAVE ALREADY POSTED, WITHOUT NEED FOR ME TO CONTACT YOU AGAIN, AT LEAST THOSE ONES THAT I HAVE ALREADY POSTED ARE ALSO OPEN FOR DISCUSSION , SO PICK , CHOOSE AND DISCUSS, .

For where? They can't question it! Their great prophet came last to copy and manipulate the works of the Original.
You have indeed dug out their carcass! Thanks for standing alone with the truth

@Sysuser

Just like a typical .m.u.s.lim (son of belial) behaves, when the bible suite your lies ,

Then the bible must have been a liar

you quote and use it, however when it does not suite your purposes , you claim it is corrupted, 

Thank God that you are admitting that

YET SOMEHOW YOU PEOPLE MAGICALLY KNOW WHEN THE BIBLE IS CORRUPT AND WHEN IT IS NOT, DESPITE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE AN ORIGINAL VERSION TO USE AS THE REFERENCE, please stop deceiving yourself to stupor

Do I need to give you examples of the corruption? I have given enough in which you yourself couldnt defend and if you care to read more, you may go some of the links created by Tpaine and Bawomolo and read rather than deceiving yourself.

Concerning the bible,

Ok

1. Who corrupted it.

A very good question and it seems you are just waking up from your slumber. We have trated this very question and I will still put you through because God does not want the deah of a sinner like you but repentance.

Did God give Jesus the book from Matthew to Revelation?
How many Gospels did he give him?
Are letters written by Paul, Luke etc part of he revelation God gave to Jesus?

2. How do you know that it is corrupted

You are still asking silly question when your fraud has been exposed?

To know that it is corrupt, let me just give you two out of very many contradictions and you help me to explain the difference.

1.
In Matt. 21:12-19 Jesus cleansed the temple and later cursed the fig tree, while
Mark 11:13-15 says he cursed the fig tree and later cleansed the temple.

2.
12: In Matthew 21:1-11 Jesus entered Jerusalem and later purified the Temple (Matthew 21:12-16),
while in John 2:13-25 and 3:1-12 he purified the Temple and later entered Jerusalem (John 12:12-16).

Any explanation syuser?

3. Which original version did you use to know that it is corrupted

You are asking a very stupid question.

why are some versions omitting some verses but present in KJV?
Why are we having missing verses in early editions but present in later ones?

4. Can we also check those original version that you use to know that it is corrupted.

Do you care if I give you some corruption apart from the one up?

Grab some versions and compare then with KV before asking stupid question

5. How come your "uncorrupted" q'uran has so many nonsense and contradictions that its makes "Harry Potter" look like a holy book.

I have told you you to serve me those contradictions one at a time and we explain them. Why not do that if you have liver and if you are posting the truth. Bloody hypocrite

6. Can a demonically possessed man speak for God, if Yes, how can you know when he is speaking for God or when he is speaking for the demon that possessed him.

Are you referring to the bible? We have lots of examples from the bible that shows that the authors were NOT INSPIRED.

By the way babs787, the is no need to be equivocating and dodging,,  YOU CAN EASILY PICK AND CHOOSE FROM SOME OF THE LIES AND CONTRADICTIONS OF I.S.L.A.M THAT I HAVE ALREADY POSTED, WITHOUT NEED FOR ME TO CONTACT YOU AGAIN, AT LEAST THOSE ONES THAT I HAVE ALREADY POSTED ARE ALSO OPEN FOR DISCUSSION , SO PICK , CHOOSE AND DISCUSS,

No you are a liar that is not ready for a debate but posting to cause mischief and to get noticed. SCROLL UP  and read the contradictions I served you and you would see that I didnt give you more than you could respond to. If you really want to debate/discuss, then Babs is here and up to the task.

Question:

1. Do i believe Mohammmed who was a peadophile, murderer, adulterer, demonically possessed, contradicts himself, who could not perform a single miracle, sex maniac, hypocrite

Bloody Mumu, typing and posting without no sense. I don't really blame you because you learnt all about The Great Religion here. Create a thread and I will address your worries for you. I don't believe in story telling but facts, back your lies with fact and we dig deep into that.
or

2. Do i believe Jesus Christ ,

THE ANSWER IS VERY CLEAR AND EASY, DON'T YOU  THINK 

       

Are you asking your pea-sized brain that question?

@detruth

For where? They can't question it! Their great prophet came last to copy and manipulate the works of the Original.

Bird of a feather. What work did he copy and if he copied the bible, why are some parts not in agreement?

You have indeed dug out their carcass! Thanks for standing alone with the truth.

He has been doing that from the bible and he will continue doing that as long as Babs is around to expose you further.

You go over my response to him and get in touch

I have a few questions for you here at the following links , check them and give you response:

1. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-122846.0.html

2. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-16387.704.html

hey i tried replying on the original thread but it won't let me. it says it's locked. that's not fair. why can't people post freely? When muuuslims post about christians it doesn't get deleted or blocked. I understand all the bashing is not necessary, but there are those of us who engage in discussions properly.
Thank you.



@Olabowale

Maybe I should say that I am not satisfied with the response, but will accept them anyway. I do wish others will join in explaining it to me. How can I get a copy of the Qu'ran, so that I may see for myself what is contained in it. I know the internet is full of lies and deceit so to me it isn't credible. Any random Joe can post anything there.

I don't read minds, but am going to sasume that your "go away," means death

LOL, I am so sorry, that is my fault. I wan't clear. I meant why did he go to the cave? I hear it's because he wasn't hapy with the way his people were? Is this true.

I think what I will just tell you is that no ordinary person has ever seen any angel in its true angelic form before. The people who might see them are all prophets of God: eg Moses, Jesus etc. Muha::mmad falls in that category. He reported that he saw Gabreil in its truest angelic form at the time of the first revelation. A christian in his community who knew the signs of prophethood knew he was telling the truth as he related the story to him. As in your case though, you should ask yourself, why should you have beieved that there are angels in the first place? Afterall you have never seen them, but you believe they exist. They are instrument of God. A go between God and mankind. Only prophets can have many contacts with them than any non prophet. Why would you have believed that the Angel appeared to Zachariah to tell him about his son's birth John? With that in mind look at revelation coming to this prophet Mu""hammad for 23 years.

If no ordinary person has seen an angel in it's true angelic form before how then could the christian know he's telling the truth as he related the story, has the christian seen an angel before. Mary was not a prophet yet she saw an angel in true form or did Muhammad say she didn't? So that doesn't mean prophethood. Many people have had encounters with angels, how would u know it's its true form or not. Is there a guideline letting us know that the angel is or isn't in its true form? I haven't seen an agel and neither have I seen Jesus face-to-face, but I do know that they do exist based on history.

Please kindly explain what the signs are of being a prophet.

Wouldn't this have been the same outlook that Noah had? Couldn't you imagine that Moses was the same position? The point is this each of the prophets was the vessel, the path to God at the time of that prophet's messengership/ministry. It is not surprising that Jesus was the same. making this same absolute but relative statement restricted to his time and a variant to time of man, respectively. It could be then understood why Jesus spoke about the "Comforter" in the weaning/withering days of his messengership/ministry. If he was the end link of the prophetic Chain, would he possibly foretell of a coming "Comforter?"

Um what? Why would Noah have this outlook? When did he ever claim that no one goes to the father except through him. Noah had a covenant with God, but it was that the earth won't be flooded again. No where did it say that Noah would be the way to the father. When did Noah prophecy? Moses prophecied about the messiah, why would he think that he's the way to God. He had the laws and he believed those laws were the way to God, he didn't believe that he was the way to the Lord. The only prophecy that was told was that of the messiah "ALL THE PROPHETS" told the same story. I am so confused by this your statement. The conforter isn't a man it's a spirit. Christ said the comforter is a spirit. The spirit is not a prophet, if so then Joseph Smith would be considered the comforter too because he too is a prophet (I will talk about this later).

You are entitled to your opinion. But the same opinion could be absolutely or partially wrong. Opinion could be subjective. I believe that the Jews have the same opinion about Jesus anyway. Thats why they are not spilling over to Christianity. It is my view and it is an obvious fact. However, those who do not believe in the messengership of Jesus will not receive Mercy from Jesus' Creator. The same lack of Mercy will be metered to those who call Jesus God.

You're right, the Jews view Jesus that way. They're still waiting on the messiah. But don't forget that it was also told that many would oppose him. They needed to do that for his crucifixion to happen. Simeon told that to Mary when she presented Jesus to the temple according to Jewish custom.

However, I am curious why you call Jesus prophet and other Christians call him god? Allahu Taala states in the Qur''''an about this horrible statement. He asked if people do not see that Mary, Jesus mother have all the inklings/trappings of human? He said that He God creates however He wills. He gives a similitude of the creation of Jesus as the same as the creation of Adam, that when He decrees a thing, all He says is "Be, and the thing "Becomes"! Interestingly, you should follow the Prophet because you are alive in his ministrial era. When Muhammadbin Abdullah became a prophet, the era of Jesus became faded away. It is the same when Jesus came, the prophetic era of moses began faded.

I don't call Jesus a prophet, notice I put that into parenthesis that was to put an emphasis on ur view of him as a prophet. Jesus is Lord.

Please provide the verse from the Bible which came from Jesus about this? I do not want what is called "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon", providing a murky inference. I want an authentic Jesus statement and direct names of The Great Prophet, or Ahmad, or Mustafa, etc. You know, the Jews by and large think that Jesus was not not even more than a scholar. But is that true? No. It is obvious that he was a prophet, regardless of what the jews think. It is the same with The Great Prophet (AS), regardless what anyone thinks. Their Lord is enough as their Guarantor of their authenticities.

Mathew 7:15-23
15. Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16. By their fruits you shall know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17. Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bear fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire
20. So by their fruits you will know them.
21. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord', will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only one who does the will of my Father in heaven
22. Many will say to me on tht day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?'
23. Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.'

Christ didn't have to say Muha::mmad, he let us know that by their fruits we will know them. By what they produce we will know them

There could be a lot of lies mix with truth, exagerations, embellishments, etc. The Bible seems to contain all of the above. We see that there are verses that could be construed as what God truly said. Others what came from prophets. Others came from others, neither prophets nor God. This is the problems with the Bible.

Please show me. This could also be said of the Qu'ran.

It is from the remnant of truth that God has allowed to remain in the Bible that we say what we say about The Great Prophet in the Bible. Please remember we do not say it, because we are eager to proof it exclusively from the Bible. Understand that Jesus is written as the announcer of the coming of Rasulullah in the Qur""""an. Please read verse 6 of Chapter titled "Those who are set in arrays"; Saffa

So it just so happens that for centuries (I am including the Jews here) that all the prophets had it wrong. Muha::mmad just happens to have it right.

I JUST WANT US CHRISTIANS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE READY FOR THE SECOND COMING OF THE LORD , SIMPLY BECAUSE GOD PROMISED TO DESTROY THE WORLD DURING THE TIME OF NOAH AND HE KEPT HIS PROMISE. LIKEWISE HE HAS PROMISED TO DESTROY THE WORLD WITH FIRE THIS TIME AND I BELIEVE HE IS GOING TO KEEP HIS PROMISE WHETHER WE ARE READY FOR HIM OR NOT. AS SUCH WE NEED TO KEEP AND MAKE OURSELVES READY SO AS TO AVOID BE PARTAKERS IN THE PUNISHMENT TO COME


The constant barage of insults , persecution and ridicule from SCOFFERS (M.u.slims , Atheist, Evolutionist, Catholics etc) on True Christians who dare to speak the truth against their lies and idolatory is actually nothing new.
Below is what the bible has to say about them,

Brother SysUser. I appreciate your effort of trying to keep christians on their toes, but it's not necessary trying to disgrace others. It is not christlike. Yes tell the truth, but do it without insults and without judgments, because you will sure be judged also.
I am sure you're a matured man and can handle a discussion without calling names. Your words on this forum prove that you are barbaric.
And please stay clear of Catholics, just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's wrong. I am begging you to engage in a discussion in a civilised manner and stop resorting to playground ways. You're not a kid (I hope), so grow up and act like an adult.

Keep in mind that christianity is not by force. Secure your own salvation before you secure others. Are you sure your name is written in the book of life? By the way you pass judgment on others, it may not be. By the way you insult others it may not be. By the way you lie, it may not be.Go and make yourself pure and then you can come and make others pure. Please don't result to hypocrisy, I am sure you are better than that. I pray the holy spirit convict you when you're about to result to doing wrong by your fellow man.

For where? They can't question it! Their great prophet came last to copy and manipulate the works of the Original.
You have indeed dug out their carcass! Thanks for standing alone with the truth

How about u remove the stick in your eye before you remove that of your brother's?

And please stay clear of Catholics, just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's wrong. I am begging you to engage in a discussion in a civilised manner and stop resorting to playground ways. You're not a kid (I hope), so grow up and act like an adult.

1. Nope i will not leave you catholics alone I consider you to be in the same league with M.u.s.l.i.m.s (does convert from catholism and being excommunicated ring a bell, ). the same thing practised by i.s.l.a.m was practised by catholism in a more covert manner (Jesuits priests).

2. I am not in the business of soothing your conscience or making you feel good and nice about yourself, whether you are angry that i tell you the truth or not is your own perogative,

4. It is my responsibility to expose the lies and make it available for you to read,

5. My statements are not my opinion they are backed up with biblical facts , if it convicts you of your ways , then its doing the job!

Brother SysUser.

Actually I am not your brother neither am i your brethren,

I do not believe in the idolatory that you do, as a catholic so please refrain from calling me a brother because i am not your brother in faith.

Keep in mind that christianity is not by force

Yes you are right , however it is by force to preach the Gospel.
It is by force to make sure that one does good whenever one has the opportunity to do good, nairaland has provided me with the opportunity to do good by bluntly telling you catholics, islamist the blunt truth as to why you are on the part to destruction.

Secure your own salvation before you secure others.

I cannot earn my own salvation by the kind of thing i do , simply because the bible makes it very clear that its not dependent on what i do or do not do, my salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. As such i already know that i am saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, I cannot do anything to secure or safeguard it or gurantee it, since i did not earn it in the first place. Hence i am trying to make other see reason as to they likewise need to come tot he saving grace of Christ.

Are you sure your name is written in the book of life? By the way you pass judgment on others, it may not be. By the way you insult others it may not be. By the way you lie, it may not be.Go and make yourself pure and then you can come and make others pure.

1. Yes It is, because the bible tells me so, and not because of what i am trying to do to earn it.

2. My salvation is not dependent on the good things that i do . (my salvation is not dependent on being pure, not lying, not judging etc)

3. I have not judged you or m.u.s.l.i.m.s (even you are judging me by saying and concluding that i have judged you or them). Rather i have only exposed their and your belief and brought it under the scrutiny of the bible alone. My conclusion is based on what the bible say and not on what i think, e.g.

1. Bible says Jesus Christ is the only and that there is no other way , that automatically means that Mary is not the way, Budda is not the way , Mohammmed is not the way, Church tradition is not the way , Purgatory is not the way , Alllah is not the way

2. Bible says Jesus is the only Mediator between God and Man, that automatically means the praynig to Mary or praying through Mary is a sin and idolatory,

3. Bible says we should test every spirit to find out if it is from God, testing Mohammmed using the bible shows that he is not from God , rather it shows that he is a false prophet.

4. Bible says Salvation is by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ, yet catholism says it also include penance, church traditions, purgatory, i.s.l.a.m does not even know what salvation is!
Now tell me who is lying and who is confused.
The catholic church is not the standard, i.s.l.a.m is not the standard, THE BIBLE IS THE STANDARD, therefore i would bluntly tell it to your face that there is no salvatio of soul in i.s.l.a.m or catholism. By the way take time and go and ask your catholics priest what i have just said, you will realise that they are contradictory to what the bible clearly and explicitly says:


5. The bible clearly tells me that Jesus Christ does not have a representative on earth , hence it means that the Pope is a mere devilish impostor as far as the bible is concerned. The judge of taeching and inbibing of the spiritual understanding into men is for the Holy Spirit and not for any other man,

6. My bible does not tell me to confess my sins to priest for them to forgive me , why because , my fellow sinful men cannot forgive me my sins therefore it is unbiblical for a catholic priest to hear confession and forgive people's sins,

, and so on and so forth


so you see I am not judging neither am lying , (contrary to your subtle claims)

it only goes to show that you and them (catholics and i.s.l.a.m) know the truth but are not ready to accept the truth, they would rather accept the doctrines of men over what the bible clearly says and stipulates.


I accept that i might have used some inappropriate words or insultive and taunting words in my presentation. I apologise for that.


However I still do not believe that Catholics are christians and that they are worshiping God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob (same goes for M.u.s.l.i.m.s), and i will try my best to continue to expose their lies and coverups and heresy on nairaland as much as i can.

@babs787

hey brother.

Did God give Jesus the book from Matthew to Revelation?
How many Gospels did he give him?
Are letters written by Paul, Luke etc part of he revelation God gave to Jesus?

God did not give the book to Jesus. If you read the books you will see that it is about Jesus written by those who followed him and were charged with spreading the gospel. God inspired these writers and that is why it is the word of God. God doesn't have to appear to a person physically or with angels in order for him to inspire someone. He's God he can make anything happen.

In order for you to understand u have to see that Jesus is God who was in the beginning as he said himself. "Amen, Amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM. There's another passage where he was more direct, I'll have to find it for u.

I should also ask u that question because Muha::mmad wasn't a learned man so people had to write down his sayins.

i like the drama going on here all in the name of religion. heeheeheeee

@SysUser

1. Nope i will not leave you catholics alone I consider you to be in the same league with M.u.s.l.i.m.s (does convert from catholism and being excommunicated ring a bell, ). the same thing practised by i.s.l.a.m was practised by catholism in a more covert manner (Jesuits priests).

2. I am not in the business of soothing your conscience or making you feel good and nice about yourself, whether you are angry that i tell you the truth or not is your own perogative,

4. It is my responsibility to expose the lies and make it available for you to read,

5. My statements are not my opinion they are backed up with biblical facts , if it convicts you of your ways , then its doing the job!

Fine whatever makes u feel better or help u sleep at night.

Actually I am not your brother neither am i your brethren,

I do not believe in the idolatory that you do, as a catholic so please refrain from calling me a brother because i am not your brother in faith.

I wouldn't want to consider u one honestly, but seeing that u are God's creation and I am supposed to treat u as I want to be treated then I don't have a choice. Seeing that I am told to love my neighbor as myself, I don't have a choice but to do so. Just to let u know I don't believe in idolatry so don't tell me what I believe in.

Yes you are right , however it is by force to preach the Gospel.
It is by force to make sure that one does good whenever one has the opportunity to do good, nairaland has provided me with the opportunity to do good by bluntly telling you catholics, islamist the blunt truth as to why you are on the part to destruction.

No it is not by force to spread. U are supposed to do so, but it is not by force. Brother don't play God by taking away what God gave to everyone: FREE WILL. It's funny you're attacking the muuuslims yet you're doing what they did, lol. Why would u need to DO good, when salvation is only by faith?

I cannot earn my own salvation by the kind of thing i do , simply because the bible makes it very clear that its not dependent on what i do or do not do, my salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. As such i already know that i am saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, I cannot do anything to secure or safeguard it or gurantee it, since i did not earn it in the first place. Hence i am trying to make other see reason as to they likewise need to come tot he saving grace of Christ.

actually the Bible makes it clear that faith without works is dead.
James 2:14
14. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15. If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16. and one o fyou says to them "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well." but you do not give them the necessaities of the body, what good is it?
17. So also faith of itself, if it does not have worls, is dead.
18. Indeed someone might say, "You have fatith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19. You believe that God is one, you do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22. You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham beleived in God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." and he was called "the friend of God"
24. See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26. For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Faith is Christ is the key to salvation, but how do you show this faith? Is it not through your works? Or do you just sit on a chair and say praise the Lord and by that you are saved? If we all sat in a chair and yelled Praise the Lord without getting out there and praising him by what we do, won't the world be in a worse state than it is now. That's the problem, a lot of us are singing praises while we don't go out there and cloth our brothers. When you clothed a man, you do the same to christ. When you give a man a drink, you do the same to Christ.

1. Yes It is, because the bible tells me so, and not because of what i am trying to do to earn it.

Show me. I want to see where it says the SysUser or whatever your real name is, is written in the book of life. Are you now God?

2. My salvation is not dependent on the good things that i do . (my salvation is not dependent on being pure, not lying, not judging etc)

oh but it is. It's funny. Martin Luther renderd the book of James as less credible just so that he could prove the point that salvation is by faith alone, yet he retained it in the protestant Bible. If it was less credible why not throw it out? He made the Bible into what he believed it should be. That's where the confusion came. You accuse Muha::mmad, look at who you followed, he did the same thing.

3. I have not judged you or m.u.s.l.i.m.s (even you are judging me by saying and concluding that i have judged you or them). Rather i have only exposed their and your belief and brought it under the scrutiny of the bible alone. My conclusion is based on what the bible say and not on what i think, e.g.

How can u expose something you know nothing about?

1. Bible says Jesus Christ is the only and that there is no other way , that automatically means that Mary is not the way, Budda is not the way , Mohammmed is not the way, Church tradition is not the way , Purgatory is not the way , Alllah is not the way

I agree Jesus is the only way. Who told you Mary is the way? Certainly not a Catholic, that's not our belief. Sorry you got it wrong. Who told u purgatory is the way? Certainly not a Catholic. My dear turn to God, he will set you free. I promise.

2. Bible says Jesus is the only Mediator between God and Man, that automatically means the praynig to Mary or praying through Mary is a sin and idolatory,

I think this belief is in your head. Do you want me to call the psychiatrist?

3. Bible says we should test every spirit to find out if it is from God, testing Mohammmed using the bible shows that he is not from God , rather it shows that he is a false prophet.

I actually agree with you on this one, but it won't kill you to show respect to people and stop judging. Oh I've never judged u, me telling you that u have judged me or the muuuslims, is not a judgment, stop crying wolf.

4. Bible says Salvation is by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ, yet catholism says it also include penance, church traditions, purgatory, i.s.l.a.m does not even know what salvation is!
Now tell me who is lying and who is confused.
The catholic church is not the standard, i.s.l.a.m is not the standard, THE BIBLE IS THE STANDARD, therefore i would bluntly tell it to your face that there is no salvatio of soul in i.s.l.a.m or catholism. By the way take time and go and ask your catholics priest what i have just said, you will realise that they are contradictory to what the bible clearly and explicitly says:

When did Catholics say that it is through penance, church traditions, purgatory? Please show me. My dear I did and nothing was contradtictory.

5. The bible clearly tells me that Jesus Christ does not have a representative on earth , hence it means that the Pope is a mere devilish impostor as far as the bible is concerned. The judge of taeching and inbibing of the spiritual understanding into men is for the Holy Spirit and not for any other man,

Are you sure the Bible tells you that he doesn't have a representative on earth? Show me.
Because I clearly remember him giving Peter the keys to the kingdom. He also said that "You are Peter (Rock) and on this rock I shal bulid my church." I think that just about says it.
There's now a judge of teaching and inbibing?
If your not supposed to have spiritual leaders, then my brother why do you go to church and why do you have a pastor? Or is every man supposed tp take the Bible and interpret it the way he likes. Wouldn't that make every man a pastor and man of God? hahaha see confusion o.

6. My bible does not tell me to confess my sins to priest for them to forgive me , why because , my fellow sinful men cannot forgive me my sins therefore it is unbiblical for a catholic priest to hear confession and forgive people's sins,

Oh but it does. It may not have said the term priest, but it does ask us to confess and it does tell us that Christ gave the power to his disciples and from them to us.

I accept that i might have used some inappropriate words or insultive and taunting words in my presentation. I apologise for that.

Why do you need to apologise when you're doing good?
Brother you have proven yourself false, please stop while you're ahead. There's nothing wrong in having a discussion and there's nothing wrong with differing, but don't force your view or belief on others. And don't be disrespectful in the process too or pass judgment. Christ never did that (except maybe the judgment).

If you’re really saved it’s going to be a working kind of salvation that will bear fruit. “…so faith, if it doesn't have works, is dead, because it's alone.” So it’s a dead faith not a living faith. If “a man may say, thou hast faith, and I have works; show me your faith without your works, and I'll show you my faith by my works.”

One kind of faith is the faith that doesn’t have any works and it is dead faith and the other faith is the faith that produces something and its living faith. One saves and one doesn’t. "Oh, I believe, I believe," "Yeah, The devils believe and they tremble."

It’s not enough to believe unless that believing results in an act of commitment to Christ that results in a changed life that bears fruit.