Neddivine: All thru the time of the disciples and apostles & converted gentile multitudes from Acts till Revelation in d bible there was no special reference or recognition accorded to Mary except to Lord Jesus.Their was no prayer to God made through her.Their was no honor supplication or intercession made for her or through her yet the catholics chose on their own to Deify her and give her honors due only to the Most High God and His son Jesus.I was once a catholic & can testify that till tomorow catholics bow,reverence,pray to and make obeisance to any statue of Mary contrary to Exodus 20:4,5:-
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:thou shalt not bow down to them....
Some go ahead to make dedicated alters in their sitting room with the statue of Mary where they always pray and make obeisance.Who could tell me then I was in error.I could literarily kill should u try to convince me contrary or try to pull me out of the catholic faith.Catholics are bonded to their doctrines similar way muslims are to theirs.Arguements will hardly convince them but strong persistent fervent prayers which is lacking among penticostals these last days.

dont worry kiddo, wen d crazy in my day slows down i'll open a thread on the topic. Hmm just watch out for it.

HerexG :


Do you think Christ still recognise Mary as His mother ? Heaven and earth shall pass away but His word will never pass away. Everything connecting Mary and Christ has passed away, except she got saved in her life time, if not so, nothing for her .

hahaha, dis mean ur salvation has passed away hehehe, 'cos d tin connecting mary and Jesus is ur salvation, sorry!

HerexG :


* Don't get it twisted, i never said she damned in hell
*Never compare the earthly realm with the spiritual real, they are the different entity, their is no father or mother in the realm of the spirit. Only your deed and faith in God and His words will speak for you. As for Christ recognizing Mary as His mother is a hoax, because before Mary is Christ was. Mary only speak for herself where ever she is now.

oh u talking of deeds? Bringing christ to d world is d most noblest-est deed i know, infact by her "let it be" she made ur salvation posible. Oh and faith? Among d pipo d bible blessed 4 their faith is mary, do u know d verse dat says "blessed is she who believe dat d promised made to her will be fulfilled"? Haha, i think she beats ur record silly on both counts. Now try again.

HerexG :

Our Christ our Lord is far too bigger than what you take Him to be, Jesus never hold His earthly parents to a high esteem as you folks think. Remember when He was 12years teaching at the synagogue, He told His earthly parents not to look for Him, that He is busy with His Father's business.

and d next verse of that passage says "and he followed them home".

Parental attachment to Christ while on the right hand side of the Father is nothing but a lie from the pit of hell, i repeat before Mary is Christ was. The devil loves counterfeiting the glory of God, the Romans worship the spirit of semiramis before the advent of Mary, they used Christianity as cover up for there pagan worship. (Study the link above it is from a Israeli rabbi).

buh, go see a therapist, d above is really twisted.

truthislight:

An express instruction from God is what it is, an express instruction.

Where did you get the instruction to make an image of Mary and Christ?

stupid question, where did God tell ur pastor to use microphone?

Lovethywilbedon: There is no place in the bible where it is literaly written that "Christians should even mention the name of the mother of Jesus" talk less of honoring her, but I will show you 5 places where mary was honourd in the bible. [1]. MARY WAS HONOURD BY GOD. (Lk1:28) "....Hail Mary, full of grace.,...". Remeber these were the "WORDS OF GOD" that were addressed to Mary through the angel. Now when you "HAIL" someone are you honouring that person?. YES. I WILL SHOW YOU THE NEXT [2](where mary was honour by the Holy spirit.) [3&4](two places where mary was honourd by Jesus) and [5](where Mary was honourd by a disciple of Christ). All these I will show you if you show that you a willing to by answering my simple questions with just [YES] or [NO]. [Q] If by Hailing someone, we are according HONOUR to that person, Do you think God HONOURED Mary when He HAILED her through angel Gabriel?. Answer Just Yes or No and I will show you No2 where mary was honoured by the Holy Spirit.

* God found mary worthy of The conception of Christ, so it is a privilege or grace given to her. Where i caught catholics honoring her was in a song you sing " we are honoring mary, we are honoring , we are honoring mary, never worship and so the song go....."
* But you did'nt answer my second question ?

Neddivine: Italo: Question 2: do you mean that God also contradicted his own law when he asked the Israelites to make a graven image of a bronze serpent and the Cherubs of the Ark of the covenant?


This shows total lack of knowledge of easily comprehensible scripture.Does the above suggest God has commanded everyone to make statue of whomsoever he/she adores and commence worship and prayers thru such idol?Listen don't pretend not to know that God never instructed Israel to bow to or pray thru the brasen serpent.He only told them to look.Did God command the catholics to make an image of Mary and bow and pray thru her? This is total obscurity or a mere pretence just to win an arguement.

oh! 4 d ark of d covenant they prostrated! How abt that?

HerexG :


They don't have the grace we have now, Christ paid the price with His blood. He is only the mediator we got, it is said in col 1:26-27 that the mystery that has been hidden for ages has been made known to us i.e Christ in you (not mary in you) the hope of glory ! He now resides in us in the person of the Holy ghost. So why bowing down to a graven image.

hahaha, this is what i call relativism, if joshua bow to an image all is well, if catholics do so, they are idol worshippers, stop fooling around, it is called biblical principle, if joshua prostrates without comiting a sin, i can do same. Adoration is a matter of d heart not posture.

HerexG :


The ark of God represents God's as of then, that was the major reason Joshua bowed . Back then graven images are made mostly kept at the tabernacle for mediating purpose or as a sign of holiness.
Yes, the new creation in Christ need not to bow down to any graven image, because that mediator they seek now resides in them in the person of the Holy spirit .

oh, d jew kept graven images wow!

Ubenedictus: oh! 4 d ark of d covenant they prostrated! How abt that?

The ark of God carries and represents God's presence, does mary statue carries His presence too ?

Mistade Regal: When are men of this generation going to understand the wiles of the devil? Worshipping mary is idolatery. Where in the Bible did you ever find or hear JESUS tell anybody to worship Mary? You are even talking of the queen of heaven? Which queen is married to a king in heaven? If you need more explanations go to LOVETHETRUTH.COM or via google search and type ALL THE WORLD BIG RELIGIONS ARE NEW WORLD ORDER CONTROLLED. I'm sure you will be startled after you finish reading. THOU SHALL NOT WORSHIP ANY OTHER GOD EXCEPT ME, THOU SHALL NOT MAKE UNTO THYSELF ANY GRAVEN IMAGE OF THINGS IN HEAVEN, EARTH OR UNDER THE EARTH, THOU SHALT NOT WORSHIP THEM, SERVE NOR BOW THYSELF UNTO THEM!!!!!!!!!!

and who here say he adore mary?

HerexG :


I have two questions for you dear ?
1) where is it written in the bible that we should honor Mary sharing glory with God,

who said anything about sharing glory with God? U are attacking ur own strawman. As regard honor luke say "from hence forth all generations shall call me blessed" dat my dear is honor.

2) why do you ask mary to pray for you, is she a spare mediator besides Christ ?

hahaha, christ alone mediates the new covenant not mary or d saints. Instead d saints both on earth and in heaven are incorporated in christ and share in his ministry as intercessors!

HerexG :


* God found mary worthy of The conception of Christ, so it is a privilege or grace given to her. Where i caught catholics honoring her was in a song you sing " we are honoring mary, we are honoring , we are honoring mary, never worship and so the song go....."
* But you did'nt answer my second question ?

i guess we are following GOD's example!

HerexG :


The ark of God carries and represents God's presence, does mary statue carries His presence too ?

so it is now acceptable to prostrate b4 graven image so far it represents divine presence?

Ubenedictus: who said anything about sharing glory with God? U are attacking ur own strawman. As regard honor luke say "from hence forth all generations shall call me blessed" dat my dear is honor.
hahaha, christ alone mediates the new covenant not mary or d saints. Instead d saints both on earth and in heaven are incorporated in christ and share in his ministry as intercessors!

Hahahahahah you got that in your new version of the bible right because my bible did'nt tell me so.

Ubenedictus: so it is now acceptable to prostrate b4 graven image so far it represents divine presence?

No my dear, if you are in Christ, you are a new creation, and Christ resides in the new creation. So there is no need for that anymore but except you are a pagan worshipper. 2 con 5:17, col 1:26-27.

HerexG :


* God found mary worthy of The conception of Christ, so it is a privilege or grace given to her. Where i caught catholics honoring her was in a song you sing " we are honoring mary, we are honoring , we are honoring mary, never worship and so the song go....."
* But you did'nt answer my second question ?

My friend are you blind? I answered your 2 questions starting with the last, the one you qouted is not complete. Go back and re-read my reply. By the way why are you dodging my question?. Don't you know how to answer just Yes or No to a simple question. Okay let me repeat it for you again. Since we can honour the people we love by Hailing them, Did God honour Mary when He HAILED her in His Word that was addressed to Mary through the angel Gabriel?. Please if you are bold enough, can you answer my question with just [YES] or [NO], so that I can show you other places Mary was Honourd in the Bible.

Lovethywilbedon: My friend are you blind? I answered your 2 questions starting with the last, the one you qouted is not complete. Go back and re-read my reply. By the way why are you dodging my question?. Don't you know how to answer just Yes or No to a simple question. Okay let me repeat it for you again. Since we can honour the people we love by Hailing them, Did God honour Mary when He HAILED her in His Word that was addressed to Mary through the angel Gabriel?. Please if you are bold enough, can you answer my question with just [YES] or [NO], so that I can show you other places Mary was Honourd in the Bible.

No way ! God did'nt honor her, she was only graced (unmerited favor), she was full of grace to be found worthy to conceive Christ, that kind of privilege does'nt come to a mortal . So that's no honoring my dear, i think her honor is in heaven for being faithful enough to fulfill the promise. I will advise you focus more on God and His son and stop asking a mortal like you to pray (mediator) for you....

@ HerexG,

You say God didn't honour Mary...

...Then you say "her honour is in heaven..."

Who gave her the honour in heaven?

God or satan?

Glory to jesus... Honour to Mary.

HerexG :


Hahahahahah you got that in your new version of the bible right because my bible did'nt tell me so.

dat means u havent even started feed on milk u are still in d womb.

italo: @ HerexG,

You say God didn't honour Mary...

...Then you say "her honour is in heaven..."

Who gave her the honour in heaven?

God or satan?

abeg help me ask am oh?

Ubenedictus: dat means u havent even started feed on milk u are still in d womb.

Where in the bible do you see that is it is required for us to ask mary and other apostles of Christ to pray or intercess for us ?

[quote author=italo]@ HerexG,

You say God didn't honour Mary...

...Then you say "her honour is in heaven..."

Who gave her the honour in heaven?

God or satan?[/quot

I'm sure she accepted Christ and His teachings so i'm assuming she is saved. She will sure be rewarded in eternity, if so and not the earthly honor some still give her here which is worthless.

@ HerexG,

What kind of Christian are you. You never answer a question concisely and honestly. My question is:

Who gave Mary the honour you say she has in heaven? God or satan?

HerexG :


No way ! God did'nt honor her, she was only graced (unmerited favor), she was full of grace to be found worthy to conceive Christ, that kind of privilege does'nt come to a mortal . So that's no honoring my dear, i think her honor is in heaven for being faithful enough to fulfill the promise. I will advise you focus more on God and His son and stop asking a mortal like you to pray (mediator) for you....

Any reasonable human being can see that you are avoiding the truth. When we hail the people we love, we are honouring them, but when God Hailed Mary who He highly Loved Favored and "GRACED" (according to you) He is DISHONORING her. This is purely Illogical. The are many ways of honouring people. We can honour the people we love by respecting them, by thanking them, by praising them, by hailing, by blessing, by greeting, by showing them any form of respect. Mind you it is not only Catholics that honour Mary. Higher Church Anglicans and Moslems do honour Mary. I think your problem is in your understanding of the word "Honour". Okay, from Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary the verb form of the word honour(show respect) means "to do something that shows great respect for somebody or something". So *HerexG* I really want to understand the point you are try to make. Are you saying that Catholics should STOP honouring(ie "DOING ANYTHING THAT SHOWS GREAT RESPECT" to Mary the Mother of JESUS CHRIST our LORD and SAVIOUR. Please let me know if this is the point you are try to make so that I can access you level of reasoning. I mean your "THINKING FACULTY"

Lovethywilbedon: Any reasonable human being can see that you are avoiding the truth. When we hail the people we love, we are honouring them, but when God Hailed Mary who He highly Loved Favored and "GRACED" (according to you) He is DISHONORING her. This is purely Illogical. The are many ways of honouring people. We can honour the people we love by respecting them, by thanking them, by praising them, by hailing, by blessing, by greeting, by showing them any form of respect. Mind you it is not only Catholics that honour Mary. Higher Church Anglicans and Moslems do honour Mary. I think your problem is in your understanding of the word "Honour". Okay, from Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary the verb form of the word honour(show respect) means "to do something that shows great respect for somebody or something". So *HerexG* I really want to understand the point you are try to make. Are you saying that Catholics should STOP honouring(ie "DOING ANYTHING THAT SHOWS GREAT RESPECT" to Mary the Mother of JESUS CHRIST our LORD and SAVIOUR. Please let me know if this is the point you are try to make so that I can access you level of reasoning. I mean your "THINKING FACULTY"

* Hahahahahaha don't make me laugh my dear, about accessing my IQ, you might get lost in the deep forest
* Now about your question my dear, i wona make it clear to you that, all the rituals, adoration, honoring, magnification, bowing, praying to, you doing to mary is 100% unscriptural. You left what Christ asked us to do in Acts 1:8 and start doing otherwise.
Christ never asked us to do such practices. All glory and honor to God

@ HerexG,

Who gave Mary the honour you say she has in heaven? God or satan?

HerexG :
"Among all the women who have ever lived, the mother of Jesus Christ is the most celebrated, the most venerated...Among Roman Catholics, the Madonna is recognized not only as the Mother of God, but also, according to modern Popes, as the Queen of the Universe, Queen of Heaven , Seat of Wisdom, and even the Spouse of the Holy Spirit." -Time Magazine, "Handmaid or Feminist?", December 30, 1991, p. 62-66
Jeremiah 7:18 says, "... the women knead the dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven ; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger!"
Is the Roman Catholic version of Mary truly the BIBLICAL Mary? Or is she really the Queen of Heaven from the Babylonian church of old that angered the Lord God in the book of Jeremiah? Out of all the proofs that expose the Vatican as the Pagan church, this has to be one of the most graphic. It’s almost as if they went back in time and copied this Pagan goddess exactly, so as to worship her as she desires them to. Old paintings and statues that have been found of this demonic goddess are exact duplicates of statues and paintings you will find today in Roman Catholic churches depicting Mary. Even the colors of her clothing match perfectly! It’s really quite shocking to say the least!
In Alexander Hislop's book, "The Two Babylons", He tracesthe Babylonian worship of the Queen of Heaven back to the days following the death of Nimrod. As the story goes, after Nimrod's death, his wife, Semiramis, was determined to retain her power and wealth as a leader of the people. So, she came up with the idea that her husbands death was for the salvation of all mankind. Of course we know who actually schooled her in that demonic fallacy. Hislop goes on to say that…
“Though the death of her husband has given a rude shockto her power, yet her resolution and unbounded ambitionwere in nowise checked. On the contrary, her ambition took a still higher flight. In life her husband had been honoured as a hero; in death she will have him worshipped as a god, yea, as the woman’s promised seed, “
Zero-ashta , ” who was destined to bruise the serpent's head, and in so doing, was to have his own heel bruised." The Two Babylons p. 58-59
Satan is a very cunning enemy. He always counterfeits prophetic truth in advance so as to make his lies appear holy. In fact, in Hislops book on page 76 he talks about Semiramis’s continued lies that got the people to believe her son was born miraculously. After they fell for that lie, she was then referred to as the “Virgin Mother” from thatday forward. Is this not a demonic twist on the prophesied birth of Christ? Truth be known, after Nimroddied, Semiramis committed adultery and had gotten pregnant. To prevent the people from killing her for proving she was “human” by her obvious pregnancy, she lied and told them her husband Nimrod had ascended to the Sun and is now called Baal. After she convinced them of this, she then stated he appeared to her and impregnated her without touching her with the rays of his glory.
She also claimed that the moon was a goddess that went through a 28 day cycle and ovulated when full. She further said that she descended from the moon in a giantmoon egg that fell into the Euphrates River. This was supposed to have happened during the first full moon after the spring equinox. This is where the Roman Catholic church gets their calculation for Easter. Ask any Pagan or Catholic priest when Easter arrives, and they will most assuredly tell you that after the first full moon of Spring, the following Sunday will be Easter.
The Babylonian people believed all the lies of Semiramis, and she was then crowned QUEEN OF HEAVEN. She later gave birth to her son and named him Tammuz. By the way, this so called “Queen of Heaven” was also called Iishtar. In today’s world, that word is pronounced, EASTER.
So, is the Mary of Rome the same as the Mary of Babylon? Truth is, Catholics the world over call Mary QUEEN OF HEAVEN do they not? When they pray the Rosary, as somedo on a daily basis, they must recite the prayer entitled, “Hail Holy Queen.”
From the earliest ages of the Catholic Church a Christian people, whether in time of triumph or more especially in time of crisis, has addressed prayers of petition and hymns of praise and veneration to the Queen of Heaven
. And never has that hope wavered which they placed in the Mother of the Divine King, Jesus Christ; nor has that faith ever failed by which we are taught that Mary , the Virgin Mother of God, reigns with a mother's solicitude over the entire world, just as she is crowned in heavenly blessedness with the glory of a Queen:

www.remnantofgod.org/evilqueen.htm

THE SO CALL QUEES OF HEAVEN AS RECORDED IN THE BIBLE IS A DEMON

NO WONDER SHE ALWAYS STAND ON A SERPENT

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead [their] dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven,and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Jeremiah 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven,and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for [then] had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

Jeremiah 44:18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven,and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all [things], and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

Jeremiah 44:19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?

Jeremiah 44:25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

Ubenedictus: oh u talking of deeds? Bringing christ to d world is d most noblest-est deed i know, infact by her "let it be" she made ur salvation posible. Oh and faith? Among d pipo d bible blessed 4 their faith is mary, do u know d verse dat says "blessed is she who believe dat d promised made to her will be fulfilled"? Haha, i think she beats ur record silly on both counts. Now try again.

With or without her, my salvation is guaranteed. God can use anybody, anything at anytime, He can even raise stones to worship Him ok. The person behind you folks adore and worship it's not the true mary but the queen of heaven.

italo: @ HerexG,

Who gave Mary the honour you say she has in heaven? God or satan?

* You need to be logical in unraveling the answer's i give, i give more reasons to ponder on what ever i write.
* I'm sure the real mary is at rest in eternity and in God's fullness now but the person you folks adore and worship now is not the true mary. If Christ had wanted us to do this you folks do, He Himself would have given us instructions to .
Now whose instruction are you obeying ?
Let me digress a little
It was recorded in the old testament that images were carved to appease God in the Holy tabernacle but there is no record in the new testament that Paul or the rest apostle carved an image of Christ or Mary to appease God. Instead Christ promised us a comforter in the person of the Holy spirit to help teach us what to do after He is gone.

HerexG :


* You need to be logical in unraveling the answer's i give, i give more reasons to ponder on what ever i write.
* I'm sure the real mary is at rest in eternity and in God's fullness now but the person you folks adore and worship now is not the true mary. If Christ had wanted us to do this you folks do, He Himself would have given us instructions to .
Now whose instruction are you obeying ?
Let me digress a little
It was recorded in the old testament that images were carved to appease God in the Holy tabernacle but there is no record in the new testament that Paul or the rest apostle carved an image of Christ or Mary to appease God. Instead Christ promised us a comforter in the person of the Holy spirit to help teach us what to do after He is gone.

I BEG HELP ME YANRN THEM O MAKE THEY OPEN THEIR EYE WHEN THEY ARE STILL BREATHING BEFORE IT WILL BE TOO LATE THEM TO REPENT IN HELL O

IF U WORSHIP MARY OR HER STATUS, YOU ARE LOST FOREVER.
OR ELSE U REPENT