Ihedinobi:

I said that?

Ihedinobi, U didn't say what I said U said. Alwaystrue put it in a better light. When I was typing that I was constrained by the phone I was using. It should better read 'this is my DEDUCTION from what Ihedinobi said...' Let's call it phonographic error.

Lol!

^^ Ok. I still think it's weird that anyone could deduce that from what I put up on that thread.

Alwaystrue: I care not much for your views except it is backed by the word of God. What you said above has no scriptural backing and all you have done is bring in your own prejudice.

The tithe U pay on your hard earned income - how much scriptural backing do U have for it. I challenge you, the same way I challenged Bidam (and shut him up) in another thread to supply one instance in the whole bible, were anyone paid a tithe on his income. He couldn't.

In Genesis 14 Abram gave a tithe after receiving a blessing. Later in d story of Joseph, he enact a law were a fifth of a harvest was to be given to the king. Many pro and anti tithe preacher agree that the tenth Abram gave was in keeping with the culture of his day - a pagan culture. If you've never come across this b4 and it is news to U, its shows how much you've studied into something U defend so tenaciously on this forum.

There is no rhema about tithing - the true rhema behind tithe PAYING is that Jesus PAID it all!!!

^^^^^^^
As @Ihedinobi said, just as it is weird anyone can make the kind of deductions you made from his post on that thread and you now make the deductions you made on Abraham's tithe to Melchisedek in the bible, there is no point engaging you on tithe.
I still stand on the integrity of what I said in my first response to your post.
Peace.

DrummaBoy:

Ihedinobi, U didn't say what I said U said. Alwaystrue put it in a better light. When I was typing that I was constrained by the phone I was using. It should better read 'this is my DEDUCTION from what Ihedinobi said...' Let's call it phonographic error.

Lol!

This fellow needs our prayers, not our replies.

Image123:


This fellow needs our prayers, not our replies.

d only sensible thing u've said on this thread. Yes he needs prayer never to go back to the BONDAGE OF TITHE. God bless.

Image123:


This fellow needs our prayers, not our replies.

Lol,true, when people worship money instead of God this is what happens.He really need to renew his mind really.He should know that God never invented money,It is man that invented it in this worldly system as a medium of exchange.so when God says tithes.their small minds will rush to money.SMH!!

Bidam: Lol,true, when people worship money instead of God this is what happens.He really need to renew his mind really.He should know that God never invented money,It is man that invented it in this worldly system as a medium of exchange.so when God says tithes.their small minds will rush to money.SMH!!

yes our oyel well must not b tempered with.

christemmbassey: yes our oyel well must not b tempered with.

Bidam: Lol,true, when people worship money instead of God this is what happens.He really need to renew his mind really.He should know that God never invented money,It is man that invented it in this worldly system as a medium of exchange.so when God says tithes.their small minds will rush to money.SMH!!

Bidam, could you please clarify! Are you saying that "tithe" is NOT money?

Are you saying that "tithe" should NOT be money?

I am mindful that you said you "tithe" other things (e.g. prayer!); in that case are you saying that "tithe" should not only be money?

Enigma:

Bidam, could you please clarify! Are you saying that "tithe" is NOT money?

Are you saying that "tithe" should NOT be money?

I am mindful that you said you "tithe" other things (e.g. prayer!); in that case are you saying that "tithe" should not only be money?

ermm...bro Enigma, how does one tithe prayer?

Tgirl4real:

ermm...bro Enigma, how does one tithe prayer?

My sweet sis, na our broda Bidam go explain that one oh! That one pass me! I think he did to some extent earlier sha (that's waht I was alluding to).

Edit: found the post; here https://www.nairaland.com/1430102/old-vs-new-covenant-revelation/9#18168064

^ Egbon mi, bobo yen o easy o tithe prayer ke? That's a new 'revelation' egbon mi....

DrummaBoy:

The tithe U pay on your hard earned income - how much scriptural backing do U have for it. I challenge you, the same way I challenged Bidam (and shut him up) in another thread to supply one instance in the whole bible, were anyone paid a tithe on his income. He couldn't.

Everyone gave tithe. What do you mean by hard earned income. Tithe was given in cash and kind. How do you tithe from horses and dog sales, you bring the money of course . Do you bring horses or dogs as tithe ? Or Carmel or snakes . They only brought certain item which the temple requires . Other things are converted to money. They don't bring perishable things like tomatoes as tithe. They sell them and gave tithes of the income. Salary earners tithed!


Luke 18:12
I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income. '

. Many pro and anti tithe preacher agree that the tenth Abram gave was in keeping with the culture of his day - a pagan culture.

Tithing a pagan culture? Melchizedek was a pagan priest ? ABRAHAM tithed because its a spiritual principle in Gods kindom. Why would God demand tithe from Israel if it were a pagan culture.

There is no rhema about tithing - the true rhema behind tithe PAYING is that Jesus PAID it all!!!

Tithing has nothing to do with the messiah . Jesus death has no fulfillment here . It's an everlasting principle . The only connection with Jesus and tithing is that it's forever . As long as there's a high priest . There must be tithing . Jesus continues the ministry of Melchizedek . It's everlasting .

Enigma:

My sweet sis, na our broda Bidam go explain that one oh! That one pass me! I think he did to some extent earlier sha (that's waht I was alluding to).

Edit: found the post; here https://www.nairaland.com/1430102/old-vs-new-covenant-revelation/9#18168064

OK o. Thanks. lol

christemmbassey: d only sensible thing u've said on this thread. Yes he needs prayer never to go back to the BONDAGE OF TITHE. God bless.

Thank Christembassey for the kind defence. My time here on NL is winding up quickly. Putting so much effort into minds that cannot be renewed is a waste of time and resources, thus to move to other things.

But I thank both the pro and anti tithers for helping me grasp biblical truths better.

God bless you all.

Cheers.

i do not think that anyone's personal walk and relationship with God is a thing to be laughed at or scorned. He has not told any of us that his example is what we should follow.

DrummaBoy:

Thank Christembassey for the kind defence. My time here on NL is winding up quickly. Putting so much effort into minds that cannot be renewed is a waste of time and resources, thus to move to other things.

But I thank both the pro and anti tithers for helping me grasp biblical truths better.

God bless you all.

Cheers.

You lied, that was the point.

Goshen360: ^

Question for you @ Image123,

Are items recovered from war acceptable under the law as tithe?

Don't ask me foolish questions.
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Joagbaje:

Everyone gave tithe. What do you mean by hard earned income. Tithe was given in cash and kind. How do you tithe from horses and dog sales, you bring the money of course . Do you bring horses or dogs as tithe ? Or Carmel or snakes . They only brought certain item which the temple requires . Other things are converted to money. They don't bring perishable things like tomatoes as tithe. They sell them and gave tithes of the income. Salary earners tithed!


Luke 18:12
I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income. '




Tithing a pagan culture? Melchizedek was a pagan priest ? ABRAHAM tithed because its a spiritual principle in Gods kindom. Why would God demand tithe from Israel if it were a pagan culture.



Tithing has nothing to do with the messiah . Jesus death has no fulfillment here . It's an everlasting principle . The only connection with Jesus and tithing is that it's forever . As long as there's a high priest . There must be tithing . Jesus continues the ministry of Melchizedek . It's everlasting .

Jesus continued d priesthood of Melkizedeck? Wetin person no go hia 4 Nl!

The following Q and A session was taken from my blog. This is my position on Abraham's Tithe

Q: How then did the concept of paying tithes and giving offering come into the church?

A: It came from a wrong interpretation and application of biblical truths. Most Christians today, following Paul’s revelation, accept that the laws of Moses has been abolished in the New Testament (Hebrew 7:12, 2 Corinthians 3:7, Galatians 3:24-27); they agree that Christians are not to pay tithes according to Moses’ injunction but they insist that we must follow the example of Abraham, who is the father of our faith, when he gave a tenth of the war spoils to Melchizedek. They say that Melchizedek is a type of Christ and for Abraham to give tithes to Melchizedek, Jesus is Melchizedek and we should give tithes to Christ through the church he has ordained on earth.

Q: But that makes perfect sense. So what do you have against Abraham’s tithing and the call for Christians to imitate him by tithing too?

A: Now let's understand the main issue at hand here. The wrong interpretation and application of biblical truth that I mentioned above is the fact that in regards to tithing, the church uses Abraham as an example on one hand but calls believers to tithe according to the law of Moses, on the other hand. When ministers ask people to tithe they use the Malachi 3:8-10 scripture to cajole people to pay their tithes or a curse will come on them, forgetting quickly that there would never had been a Malachi 3 if there had not been a Leviticus 27 and Numbers 18. I am saying in effect we cannot say we are not under Moses’ laws but resort to Moses laws to lay justification to a doctrine and practice in the church. If we must follow Abraham’s example, we must tithe as Abraham tithed; but if we must follow Moses’ law, we must obey the law to the letter and not just take one law out of the 613 laws God gave Israel through Moses, and leave the rest (Galatians 5:3; James 2:10) .

And in addition to this if we were to follow Abraham example by imitating everything he did: Christians will go to war; Christians will sleep with their house maids; Christians will circumcise their children on the eight day; Chrisitians will lie; etc. It is Abraham's faith in God that brought about his justification (Genesis 15:6) we are called to imitate and not every minute detail of his life (Galatians 3:6-9).

Q: But you still have not answered the question I asked: Why should Christian not tithe like their father in the faith, Abraham, did.

A: To understand Abraham’s tithing, we must resort to two scriptures: Genesis 14 and Hebrew 7. The first thing we see from that scripture is that Abram, not yet Abraham at that time, gave a tithe and not pay a tithe to Melchizedek. So if Christians must tithe following Abram’s example, it must be free will giving and not obligatory payment. Also, we see that Abram did not give this tithe to curry a blessing from Melchizedek, as we are made to believe when we are told to tithe so as to open the heavens over our finances, according to Malachi 3. Rather he gave a tithe after he had been blessed by Melchizedek (Genesis 14:20). So his giving was a kind of thanksgiving offering or gratitude – the same way Christians can come forward to thank God for a deliverance, blessing or safety with an offering. Thus, rather than being an obligatory paying, we see this as an example of free will offering of thanksgiving. Abram, in this story, gave a tithe of war spoils. It is nowhere recorded that he gave a tithe of his possessions to Melchizedek; even though he made reference to his wealth in that passage of scriptures (v.22- 23). We see from this example that Abraham’s tithing was a once-for-all event; and not a weekly or monthly duty. Now, other translations of scripture, other than the KJV, translated the word “tithe” in v.20 as tenth. This they did not because the two words differ but to distinguish this particular tithe or tenth from the religious tithe or tenth that God will require of Israel to give to the Levites under Moses later (Leviticus 27, Number 18). Many bible scholars, including those who agree and disagree with tithing today, accept that what Abraham did was in keeping with the custom of that age: were Kings and Priests were given ten percent of spoils obtained from the war front. Abraham was simply following an established custom and thus the tithe he gave here cannot be seen as a religious tithe (like we would find under Moses) but a customary tithe. Christians do not go to war today; and even if they did and obtained war spoils, we see from Scriptures that God either regarded war spoils as an abomination (Joshua 6:17-18) or gave specific instructions in regards to how to use them (Joshua 6:19; Numbers 31:25-30). God has never demanded a tithe from war spoils.

Q: What about the reference in Hebrew 7:2, that showed us that Abraham gave a tenth to Melchizedek?

A: At this point I would refer to Matthew E. Nerramore online book on tithing http://tekoapublishing.com/books/tithing/index.html. Quoting from Chapter five, the author shows us the real gist of Abraham’s tithing as found in Hebrew 7 through this logical progression: When Abraham gave the tithe to Melchizedek, all of Abraham’s unborn descendants were symbolically in his loins; which means that the tribe of Levi and all the Old Covenants priests were in his loins; which means that all the old testament priests were there paying tithe to Melchizedek; which means that when Abraham received the blessing from Melchizedek, all the old covenant priests were also there receiving the blessing from Melchizedek; therefore, because the one who receives the tithe and gives the blessing is greater than the one who gives the tithes and receives the blessing. Melchizedek is greater than the old covenant priests. And because Melchizedek is proven to be greater than the old Covenant priests, that proves Jesus is also greater because he is a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

So the subject of tithing was brought into this passage not for it to be an instruction for New Testament Christians to follow but to show the greatness of the priesthood of Christ – by comparing it to that of Melchizedek. Please note that Jesus is not a priest after the person of Melchizedek but after the order of Melchizedek. There is nothing in that scripture that shows that Jesus and Melchizedek are one and the same person. Also the Hebrew 7 scripture, like Nerramore had stated in his book, shows that the order of Melchizedek was a higher priestly order than that of the Levites. While the tithes the Levite’s collected was said to be after a carnal commandment, the priestly order that Jesus represents is after an endless life (v.16). That carnal commandment is the one that demanded the tithes. Carnality here will depict a commandment that is ordinary and outdated; although carnality is seen as sin in 1 Corinthians 3:3 and as death in Romans 8:6. Everything in regards to that commandment is summarized in v.12: for the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. The change in the laws shows that while Moses’ laws were obligatory, the laws that came in Christ are based on liberty: freedom to do as the Spirit leads us – the law of Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2; James 2:8-12).

And on a final note, still along these lines, when we realize that Jesus, like Hebrew 7:14 shows, descended from the tribe of Judah and we see that only those from Levi could collect a tithe, Jesus himself will be a law breaker if he'd collected a tithe during his earthly ministry. Now in His glorified form, Jesus’ Priesthood is after another order: that of Melchizedek, and there is no record in scripture that shows that that priesthood needs tithing to sustain it. Also, while Jesus is the High Priest, believers today, are priests in God’s kingdom (1 Peter 2:9, Revelation 1:6). There is nowhere in the whole of scriptures were priests paid tithes to anyone; so we are not obliged to tithe under this new covenant – which is a better covenant (Hebrew 7:22).


More on this article: http://www.yesufu..com/2013/09/q-session-on-tithing_12.html

DrummaBoy:

Thank Christembassey for the kind defence. My time here on NL is winding up quickly. Putting so much effort into minds that cannot be renewed is a waste of time and resources, thus to move to other things.

But I thank both the pro and anti tithers for helping me grasp biblical truths better.

God bless you all.

Cheers.

my dear broda, our duty here is nt for d tithe collectors (pro tithe) but for d sincere and innocent believers who have been in bondage by these hirelings. So pls we need clear headed, sincere and honest believer like u for this war against the enemies within. I don't how u normally feel when a believer is delivered from the tithe profanity, for me, i feel liberated over and over again. Remain blessed.

christemmbassey: my dear broda, our duty here is nt for d tithe collectors (pro tithe) but for d sincere and innocent believers who have been in bondage by these hirelings. So pls we need clear headed, sincere and honest believer like u for this war against the enemies within. I don't how u normally feel when a believer is delivered from the tithe profanity, for me, i feel liberated over and over again. Remain blessed.

Yes. I understand it that way perfectly. The reason why I still do what I do here is because one or two people will stumble on this thread one day, read and find liberty. Thanks again.

@ DrummerBoy,

Keep the good work, I ENDORSE it any day, anytime according to the Grace given unto me.

Image123: i do not think that anyone's personal walk and relationship with God is a thing to be laughed at or scorned. He has not told any of us that his example is what we should follow.

let him keep it to himself then, rther than using it to perpetuate FRAUD, there is NO SINGLE VERSE FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION WHERE CHRISTIANS ARF COMMANDED TO PAY 10% of their SALARIES/WAGES TO GOD, JESUS, PASTOR OR CHURCH ORGANISATIONS WEEKLY OR MOMTHLY.

Goshen360: @ DrummerBoy,

Keep the good work, I ENDORSE it any day, anytime according to the Grace given unto me.

Thank you Goshen. You are the Boss in these matters, we are just able "sons of the prophet".

And, yes, I give detractors the liberty to (mis)interpret what I have just written!

Goshen360: @ DrummerBoy,

Keep the good work, I ENDORSE it any day, anytime according to the Grace given unto me.

bros u dey so? Imagine one of dem tithe collectors saying dat Jesus came to continue d priesthood of Melkizedeck! See what fraud can do to sm1 Christ died for, n d funiest thing, the want to pray for Drummaboy, a prisoner praying for a free man. Profanity is bad, very very BAD. Bless u.

And one other thing: Those of us who oppose tithing under estimate what exactly we are opposing. The famous atheist, Voltaire, once said "When it comes to money, every man's religion is the same". In other words, most people behave in a certain manner when their source of livelihood is threatened. No other story depicts this better than this story taken from Acts 16:

16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: 17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. 18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. 19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, 20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, 21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans. 22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. 23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely: 24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.

I call anti-tithers to beware O. Some Masters' hope of gain is going!!!

DrummaBoy: And one other thing: Those of us who oppose tithing under estimate what exactly we are opposing. The famous atheist, Voltaire, once said "When it comes to money, every man's religion is the same". In other words, most people behave in a certain manner when their source of livelihood is threatened. No other story depicts this better than this story taken from Acts 16:

[color=#000099][/color]

I call anti-tithers to beware O. Some Masters' hope of gain is going!!!

bros, i do this anti-tithe thing not only on Nl but like MTN everywhere i go, just last monday on my way to Aba from Calabar ppl were reading sm verses 6f d bible 4 d 1st time, those verses d tithe collectors will wish to cut off, n one tithe collector was so mad with me but others were kind of relieved, one pastor dat used to invite me to minister has stop calling me and my former pastor's wife threatened her pastors with excommunication if they ever interacted with me. Sm avoid me like a plague , its not easy but d work must b done.

@ Image123

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the ownership issue on this basis:

Abram never asserted ownership on the 'spoils of war' - the aspects that belonged to the King of Sodom. Therefore, regardless of whether he could 'legally' assert ownership or not, the important fact is that he didn't.

It is evident that the king of Sodom came to bargain for his goods which were taken away. It is not only his goods that were taken away, there were five kings. Abraham brought back more than just the goods of the king of Sodom.

It says Abraham brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and etc. It doesn't say that Abraham brought back ONLY Sodom's goods. It clearly wasn't only Sodom's goods. Lot's goods were there, and other goods must have been there. It was of the other goods that he gave a tenth. As for Sodom's goods, he would not touch a thread, not to mention ten percent.
Gen 14:23 That I will not take from a thread even to to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine.

Abram brought back only goods that were taken away (from Lot, Sodom and Gomorrah), and the natural conclusion is that he returned them to the rightful owners, just as he did for the King of Sodom. If you disagree, then you are implying Abram also took Lot's goods as 'increase' or addition for himself - is that what you are implying?

Alwaystrue:
even showing the spiritual link that the Levites also paid tithes through Abraham, who had the promises, that Melchizedek received and Christ is after the same order of and Jesus Himself affirmed tithing. Now someone who knows 'better' than the bible has called this a pagan practice not for believers who are the children of Abraham as well!

Madame, what exactly did Jesus affirm? Was it not tithing as described under the law? Are you therefore saying Jesus affirmed that Christians should tithe as described under the law?

Some people think they won't survive if tithe is removed from the church. Please go and get a job and stop threatening people with Malachi. Get a job please. Just get a job.