potentpraise:
Zikkyy:
Goshen360's initial post (below) is valid.

ANS
If himself directly or indirectly admitted that his argument has been refuted

How and where did I directly or indirectly admitted? What kind of allegation is this?

Goshen360: ^ This is not argument for arguing sake or what have you. Let's begin to put the difference (tenth and tithe) into use now. For instance, there're 12 months in a year. The 'tenth' month is October. Are you telling us that 'tithe' (10%) of 12 is will automatically be EQUAL 10 (10th) month?

Again i say.. you either do it deliberately or you do not understand what is going on..
How do you relate 10% with Number 10?

10 PERCENT Meant if everything is divided into 10 places

if you are talking about a year you are talking about 12 months and lets do little maths here

10% of 12 months =1.2 month.. Here is the formula should you have reason to use it to pay your tithes

potentpraise:
ANS
It will make good sense to reference your conclusion to the bible because all you just state is opinion. You will need to go read exodus where the bible tells the rich to give to the poor. And if you don't understand that tenth and tithes is the same then you should get a dictionary.

Now you are afraid to engage. You want me to go read exodus and dictionary! this was your post to Goshen:

potentpraise:
I have quietly monitored your advocacy for abolition of tithes in New Testament. But I think you are wrong. While I understand that you might be making a grave unconscious mistake, I think you should have ask before reaching that conclusion, at least ask people who are advance in this profession.

You came in here brimming with confidence, i was thinking i will be discussing with somebody quite knowledgeable. You are disappointing me walahi!

Zikkyy:

You know it would have been easy for you to refer Goshen to the many illustrations in the bible regarding the definition of tithe & tenth, but feeling confident you decided to open a dictionary. so i want you to adopt the same approach here; lets see some display of confidence and tell us how the order of Melchizedek is related to Jesus if you understand what you are talking about and you want viewers to learn from you, kindly answer the question! Don't know why you are scared.

Its interesting to think i am scared at this point after my reference. If there is any concern at all, it is the fact that you and Goshen360 are just being entertained and not really interested in learning, but argue for the fun of it. Await my response and i will answer

Verse one of Hebrew 7 says :"1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;"

and verse 3: says "3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

Verse one said Priest of the most high God and verse 3 said just as Mechisedec had no father, mother, children nor have end of life but was made like the Son of God. Who is the son of God? My bible tells me is Jesus

I think this should answer your problem.. Never say i run from your questions... I don't run and i don't quit except if i see that it does not make sense to continue especially if i am not imparting knowledge.. But if your question or argument is genuine trust me i will respond and if i don't know, i will tell you to give me a time to do my research and if i am wrong i will admit.. that is the characteristics of a good.. you should know

@Goshen,
Run off? I should not be surprised by the way you make allegations then start apologising later.
I will just advise you to drop your double standards, you find it easy to define words outside the bible but raise eyebrows at others that do. There are enough discussions on tithe already so raising a fresh topics will not change the mind of people whether in favour or against, only the Holy Spirit can.
The OP asked a question which is being answered. So arguing on whether or not to give tithe or offering is not the issue.
Therefore, staying on this thread? Naaa! Just passing through. Just take the advice I gave.

potentpraise:

Its interesting to think i am scared at this point after my reference. If there is any concern at all, it is the fact that you and Goshen360 are just being entertained and not really interested in learning, but argue for the fun of it. Await my response and i will answer

i am waiting

Zikkyy:

i am waiting

Verse one says :"7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;"

and verse 3: says "3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

Verse one said Priest of the most high God and verse 3 said just as Mechisedec had no father, mother, children nor have end of life but was made like the Son of God. Who is the son of God? My bible tells me is Jesus

I think this should answer your problem.. Never say i run from your questions... I don't run and i don't quit except if i see that it does not make sense to continue especially if i am not imparting knowledge.. But if your question or argument is genuine trust me i will respond and if i don't know, i will tell you to give me a time to do my research and if i am wrong i will admit.. that is the characteristics of a good.. you should know

potentpraise:

Again i say.. you either do it deliberately or you do not understand what is going on..
How do you relate 10% with Number 10?

10 PERCENT Meant if everything is divided into 10 places

if you are talking about a year you are talking about 12 months and lets do little maths here

10% of 12 months =1.2 month.. Here is the formula should you have reason to use it to pay your tithes

Formula to pay my tithe ke? So God God don start dey give formula? The example I gave you about 12. Isn't 12 a number. Okay, let's take another one. 30 days a month. So 30 taken as number. 10% of 30 is 3 BUT 'tenth' or 'tenth part of 30 is 10 or tenth day. NO?

Goshen360:

Formula to pay my tithe ke? So God God don start dey give formula? The example I gave you about 12. Isn't 12 a number. Okay, let's take another one. 30 days a month. So 30 taken as number. 10% of 30 is 3 BUT 'tenth' or 'tenth part of 30 is 10 or tenth day. NO?

A word like i said earlier could mean different thing at different sentence or phrase. On the 10th of the month, on the 10th of the year meant the 10th day of the month and year.

The 10th of your income, the 10th of your salary meant different thing which is 10% of your income and salary

Snowwy: @Goshen,

Run off? I should not be surprised by the way you make allegations then start apologising later.

I know you will run in the end! I have learned not to make any further allegation that prompts me to apologize. Whatever issue you have with that is your own issue. I will only discuss the subject matter without even name calling or what have you, okay.

Snowwy: @Goshen,

I will just advise you to drop your double standards, you find it easy to define words outside the bible but raise eyebrows at others that do.

I don't understand what you meant by 'double standard'. Care to explain please.

Snowwy: @Goshen,

There are enough discussions on tithe already so raising a fresh topics will not change the mind of people whether in favour or against, only the Holy Spirit can.

So I'm the one that started this fresh topic right? And you claimed I often accuse people and later apologize. The fact that I apologise is not a weakness. I simply admit where I'm wrong by calling names within our discussion. What else I apologize for? That I'm teaching what I know? Don't we have the right to reason along together what we know? As long as you guys stop telling Christians to pay tithe, then this matter will be laid to rest. The Op start a thread and I gave my best advice, so what's the issue that you're referring to 'raising a fresh topics'? Do you see me start a tithe TOPIC in the recent or contribute to threads being opened? Na wha for you o.

Snowwy: @Goshen,

The OP asked a question which is being answered. So arguing on whether or not to give tithe or offering is not the issue.

The question of the OP is being answered but it is your other/our brother that responded to my comment that brought this argument. How else do I explain that to you to? Didn't you see that? Please, stop reading me with biased mind simply because we don't agree on some doctrinal issues. Feel free to reason scriptures with me, if need be.

Snowwy: @Goshen,

Therefore, staying on this thread? Naaa! Just passing through. Just take the advice I gave.

Your advice here is not valid. If it valid I will humbly submit as you know me. Telling Christians to tithe is wrong and as long as you guys keeping coming out with that, we will always reason it out with you. It doesn't matter how many times it's being said. I'm not the one starting fresh tithe topic, it's being over flogged but if any discussion on it comes, don't I have the right to talk? Or you think it's everything I apologize for. If I'm wrong, I will humbly apology, it doesn't diminish anything from me.

potentpraise:
and verse 3: says "3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

Verse one said Priest of the most high God and verse 3 said just as Mechisedec had no father, mother, children nor have end of life but was made like the Son of God, who is the son of God, My bible tells me is Jesus

Good. Now that you are teaching, can i conclude that Mechizedek does not have father, mother (i.e. he fell from heaven or he was made from dust just like Adam) and since you said that Melchizedek does not have end of life, can i conclude he is still around (somewhere in the middle east)? i hope you know that's the message you are passing across. Your response will be very much appreciated sir.

Goshen360:

Formula to pay my tithe ke? So God God don start dey give formula? The example I gave you about 12. Isn't 12 a number. Okay, let's take another one. 30 days a month. So 30 taken as number. 10% of 30 is 3 BUT 'tenth' or 'tenth part of 30 is 10 or tenth day. NO?

There is no way the man will understand what you are getting at. you better help him.

.

Goshen360:
I know you will run in the end!

Na her trademark be dat. No be today.

potentpraise:

A word like i said earlier could mean different thing at different sentence or phrase. On the 10th of the month, on the 10th of the year meant the 10th day of the month and year.

The 10th of your income, the 10th of your salary meant different thing which is 10% of your income and salary

This is where you're wrong! Say if I earn 100 dollars as income in a month. I pay say 15USD as rent. I pay tuition. I pay transportaion or gas. etc Say everything divided accordingly, then I can take a TENTH PART of my income which DOES NOT EQUAL 10% in keeping with my income (1 Corinthians 16:2, NIV) and give that 'tenth part' to the worship places or my neighbour or my family members......That's why Zikky said that about 'tenth part'

Zikkyy:

Good. Now that you are teaching, can i conclude that Mechizedek does not have father, mother (i.e. he fell from heaven or he was made from dust just like Adam) and since you said that Melchizedek does not have end of life, can i conclude he is still around (somewhere in the middle east)? i hope you know that's the message you are passing across. Your response will be very much appreciated sir.

We can conclude part of what you said, or rephrase what you said. Melchisedec has verse 3 said does not have relatives. The question on where he came from can not be ascertain by man, but God. We read Genesis 18:1-3 you will see that he met three men.. we were not told where those three men are from, but we later noticed that they were the same men that went to destroyed Sodom and Gomorah and they met Lot at the gate of the city in the evening of the day.

18 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: in the bible of 3 men also called angels came to me


Melchisedec history was unknown nor was he really talk about before and after the tithes Abraham gave him. However, we could assume that its was God's in man or an angel. One thing you will also note about Abraham was that he can discern from ordinary men and stranger/angel of God.. When you walk with God to some level you will will have that sensory organ developed through your inner man: the spirit of God

Goshen360:

This is where you're wrong! Say if I earn 100 dollars as income in a month. I pay say 15USD as rent. I pay tuition. I pay transportaion or gas. etc Say everything divided accordingly, then I can take a TENTH PART of my income which DOES NOT EQUAL 10% in keeping with my income (1 Corinthians 16:2, NIV) and give that 'tenth part' to the worship places or my neighbour or my family members......That's why Zikky said that about 'tenth part'

Do not say am wrong until you are very sure i am wrong. The tenth of income of $100 is $10 and it should be taking out first before you pay all your bill.. Where did i get that from?

Lots of reference in the bible, but i will use one that we have been referencing to since..

Genesis 14:16-26

16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.

18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

24 Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

^^^ My brother. You dey make me laff too much o. TITHE OF ALL.....in context right?

Verse 16 tells us the ALL that was recovered - And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

So Abraham tithed 10% of 'Lot is brother' also? Did he tithe 10% of the women also? and of the people? The last time I checked, Lot was still walking in the next chapter had it being he was also tithed inclusive the 10%. YES or NO?

You don't want to agree that what Abraham gave was TENTH PART, NOT TITHE according to Hebrews 7:1-2, KJV

For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Abraham could not have PAID 'tithe' (if it means 10%) BUT he GAVE 'tenth'. As we could see, Lot wasn't part of the ALL, hence he could not have paid 10% but 'tenth' part of what was divided from ALL what he recovered from war.

potentpraise:
Melchisedec has verse 3 said does not have relatives. The question on where he came from can not be ascertain by man, but God.

Thanks for the response. what about the part that has to do with Melchizedek not having end of life, can i conclude that Melchizedek is still somewhere in the middle east?

Since we cannot ascertain where Melchizedek came from, it therefore mean we cannot be sure if Melchizedek had relatives. So therefore, we cannot also ascertain that the order of Melchizedek is related to Jesus remember you said this was one of the justification for claiming the order of Melchizedek is related to Jesus, so we are not sure anymore

Goshen360:
The last time I checked, Lot was still walking in the next chapter had it being he was also tithed inclusive the 10%.

Bros even if Lot was still walking, what about his hands? maybe his hands were tithed na

i think i like this potentpraise, potent. i fortunately don't have time to read through though. i see zikky, tithe-talk is like oxygen for that fella.

Goshen360: ^^^ My brother. You dey make me laff too much o. TITHE OF ALL.....in context right?

Verse 16 tells us the ALL that was recovered - And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

So Abraham tithed 10% of 'Lot is brother' also? Did he tithe 10% of the women also? and of the people? The last time I checked, Lot was still walking in the next chapter had it being he was also tithed inclusive the 10%. YES or NO?

You don't want to agree that what Abraham gave was TENTH PART, NOT TITHE according to Hebrews 7:1-2, KJV

For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Abraham could not have PAID 'tithe' (if it means 10%) BUT he GAVE 'tenth'. As we could see, Lot wasn't part of the ALL, hence he could not have paid 10% but 'tenth' part of what was divided from ALL what he recovered from war.

Interesting that you ask questions like this. I would have suggested that you read all before you conclude. However, i am glad i am here for you to help you out.
Verse 16 says: "16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people."
Verse 21 says: "21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself."
and Verse 24 says "24 Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion."


While Lot was not part of the spoils: the goods recovered from a battle, the men and slaves were part of the tithes paid. Slaves in those days were commodity or we say property. So if they are property and they are goods, including the women, that means 10% of their total number could have been given to Melchisedec to help him carry the tithes that was given to him to wherever he was going and also to help him with some errands.

Except if you want to change english word then we will go with your definition, but as long as universal definition of tithes means the tenth percent then i am very correct. O

Zikkyy:

Thanks for the response. what about the part that has to do with Melchizedek not having end of life, can i conclude that Melchizedek is still somewhere in the middle east?

Since we cannot ascertain where Melchizedek came from, it therefore mean we cannot be sure if Melchizedek had relatives. So therefore, we cannot also ascertain that the order of Melchizedek is related to Jesus remember you said this was one of the justification for claiming the order of Melchizedek is related to Jesus, so we are not sure anymore

If he has no end of life.. it means Melchisedec was God incarnate or an angel who could be anywhere and not limited to place, time and location. God is everywhere not only in the middle east, but also in Africa and North America including Asia, South and Central America and if you are in Europe he is there also.

If we say the bible is an inspiration, then we should believe God inspiration and if it was written by a person who has been inspired by God, then why would we not believe? If we don't believe all that then, we need not to be talking about the abolition of tithes in Hebrew 7 and i want to believe you are directly admitting that the tithes was not abolished in New Testament like your brother Goshen360 has done..

potentpraise:
So if they are property and they are goods, including the women, that means 10% of their total number could have been given to Melchisedec to help him carry the tithes that was given to him to wherever he was going and also to help him with some errands.

.....and you told me we can assume Melchizedek to be an angel of God! the men, women & slaves will be running errands in heaven abi?

Zikkyy:

Bros even if Lot was still walking, what about his hands? maybe his hands were tithed na

You are your brother Goshen360 are just catching fun.. Lot was not tithed but the goods they got from the people that kidnapped Lots

Zikkyy:

.....and you told me we can assume Melchizedek to be an angel of God! the men, women & slaves will be running errands in heaven abi?

Our bible told us that Enoch walk with God and he was no more because God took him. So because God is in the image of man does not mean he will take his helpers when he is gone. Jesus was a clear example and Elijah was another example.. Elijah did not take Elisha with him even though he saw him face to face when he was airlifted with the chariot of fire.. My brother believe and do some independent thinking

potentpraise:

While Lot was not part of the spoils: the goods recovered from a battle, the men and slaves were part of the tithes paid. Slaves in those days were commodity or we say property. So if they are property and they are goods, including the women, that means 10% of their total number could have been given to Melchisedec to help him carry the tithes that was given to him to wherever he was going and also to help him with some errands.

Except if you want to change english word then we will go with your definition, but as long as universal definition of tithes means the tenth percent then i am very correct. O

Interestingly, people are reading you and you're simply helping to make my point come alive. Now, you've said my total income say it's $100 just like everything Abraham got from the war was his total income, including Lot his brother. I was telling you that 'tithe' does NOT equal 'tenth'. Now, if Abraham takes out Lot from his total income (in this case), he is left with say 90% and now, you're saying Abraham then GAVE tithe from the 90%.

Very simply and plain, Abraham DIDN'T give tithe ANYMORE, he gave TENTH. Tenth is a tenth part AFTER division. That is, after taking out his brother and his brother's goods. He also gave back to King of Sodom the rest which is another portion of the division. He only gave a tenth part from the goods to Melchizedek, THAT IS NOT TITHE! Tithe is 10% of the TOTAL.

Now, you people that teach tithes, TAKEN YOUR TOTAL INCOME into this case of Abraham, do you also give the rest of 90% to the equivalent of the king of Sodom your boss .

potentpraise:

You are your brother Goshen360 are just catching fun.. Lot was not tithed but the goods they got from the people that kidnapped Lots

BUT Lot was part of the ALL.....which means INCOME for Abraham. NO

Image123: i think i like this potentpraise, potent. i fortunately don't have time to read through though. i see zikky, tithe-talk is like oxygen for that fella.

Thank you my brother i love you too.. God bless you richly... Let us help Goshen360 and his brother Zikkyy to understand some clarity with what they have been reading.. They are like the Ethiopian eunuch who need Philips around for a moment for some scriptural clarity.. Anyways.. I love you too Goshen360 and Zikkyy

Goshen360:

BUT Lot was part of the ALL.....which means INCOME for Abraham. NO

All? read from 16... You do lots of selective reading that also leads you to selective comprehension= Selective understanding

Goshen360:

Interestingly, people are reading you and you're simply helping to make my point come alive. Now, you've said my total income say it's $100 just like everything Abraham got from the war was his total income, including Lot his brother. I was telling you that 'tithe' does NOT equal 'tenth'. Now, if Abraham takes out Lot from his total income (in this case), he is left with say 90% and now, you're saying Abraham then GAVE tithe from the 90%.

Very simply and plain, Abraham DIDN'T give tithe ANYMORE, he gave TENTH. Tenth is a tenth part AFTER division. That is, after taking out his brother and his brother's goods. He also gave back to King of Sodom the rest which is another portion of the division. He only gave a tenth part from the goods to Melchizedek, THAT IS NOT TITHE! Tithe is 10% of the TOTAL.

Now, you people that teach tithes, TAKEN YOUR TOTAL INCOME into this case of Abraham, do you also give the rest of 90% to the equivalent of the king of Sodom your boss .

Interesting that you fail to interpret verse 9 of Hebrew 7.. "9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham." Does different words that meant the same thing disturbs your comprehension or you chose to ignore the fact that English dictionary is there to help you address this problem?

potentpraise:

All? read from 16... You do lots of selective reading that also leads you to selective comprehension= Selective understanding

What am I selecting? Nothing! I said, Lot was part of the ALL that Abraham recovered. Is that not?

And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

If Lot was part of the ALL that was recovered, then that is taken as Abraham's 100% income. I'm still trying to let you see that TENTH doesn't EQUAL TITHE.

Now, Abraham has 100% from war right and the tithe according to your definition is 10%, which is 10 in this case. Right!

Now, take Lot and his goods out of the 100%. Saying we're left with 80% (taken out of the whole 100%)

Now, your initial definition of tithe would have been 10 taken the 100% of income BUT by 'tenth part'. The servants of Abraham had taken or eaten some parts, lots and his goods is out (from the same 100%) Abraham then gave 'tenth' part from the remaining of the division - THAT IS NOT TITHE ANYMORE, because from what the tithe was given or paid had reduced from 100% to say 75%. What Abraham was giving then was 'tenth' part of the 75 remaining percent.