potentpraise:

So interprets to me though shall not serve other gods except the the Lord they God that brought you out from the land of Egypt
with though shall love the love the lord thy God with all they heart and might? If the first was totally abolished, why do we still have to love God, since the law was in the old?

Though shall not fornicate or commit adultery in the NT and OT though shall not convert thy neighbors wife, please tell me why we have it in New?
When you all read your bible and think you know it all, without attending bible study or stay under the tutelage of a biblical scholar you read a verse and you think you are an expert of the bible.. i wonder why people get PhD if undergraduate was good enough?

Go read the NT, all that christians need to know and do is there.

Stop twisting.

There is no instruction to christians to tith in the NT.

You cannot preach what christ apostles did not preach.

truthislight:

Go read the NT, all that christians need to know and do is there.

Stop twisting.

There is no instruction to christians to tith in the NT.

You cannot preach what christ apostles did not preach.

When argument does not reflect intelligence.. Its a disease

potentpraise:

I told you before that before you argue read all the text and not just be picking one of my comment at the end of the discussion?

Have you read the following in your bible?



The above text made us to understand that there are more than one law/commandment so there are commandments... If you bring any questions without first reading from the beginning you will be wasting your time, because, i can not be rewrting what i have written to addressed similar questions and if you need clarification humbly ask, but that must be after you have read all my comments from the inception of this thread, including questions asked.

You are too blind from all you are saying to even understand the NT.

All the law is fulfill in one word = love.

1. The greatest is love of God.

2. Love of neighbour.

If you love God you will not go against what he hates. You will do only what he likes = love of God.


If you love your neighbour you will not go against what he hates, you will not steal his property, You will do only what he likes and do to him what you will want him to do to you = love of neighbour and golden rule.

Who is your neighbour? = all human.

This ^^ law is written in the heart of "christians".

Read your bible (NT) again, this time drop the greed for money aside.

Greed has blinded you.

"Do what is had work with your hands, so that you will have enough for your self and what to give to others"

dont always see money anytime you see the bible.
Peace.

potentpraise:

On what basis? I guess your opinion is authority? You can not even argue yourself out.. No reference, no authority but opinion.. That is why Nigeria is backward, because people just do things without first thinking, research, but think it will work.. you are an example of such product

what have i said that you think is not in the bible, point it out and i will show it to you.

I was thinking you have the scriptures upstairs.

Please point out what i have said that is not in the bible.

potentpraise:

Now i know you are defending your boss.. but before you defend go read i say read from the beginning.. There are different ways a man can concede defeat or argree. First by word and second by action e.g
yes,
just take a bow
shift to another topic

When we start discussing Goshen changed the topic twice and its a sign that he conceded and he was also talking about offering being acceptable... How could you say tithes which is under the old commandment is abolished and offering which is also under the same old law is not abolished.. There is something wrong then. Its either you don't know what you are saying, or you are wasting my time

There are instructions for voluntary offering in the NT.

Show me the instruction for tith? None.

You better be careful.

potentpraise:

Go and call your boss Goshen and let adult talk when small boy like you watch so you can learn from the expert.
The problem with you and many others on this forum is English is your second language and i agree, but you need to work hard to understand English comprehension.
English is more than read and write... It takes time to learn to understand what it meant, especially if its written. Unlike spoken word where you can denote from expression of tone of pronunciation, written words are different

Rubbish!

Show where the instructions for christans to tith is written in the NT?

Stop evading the issue on ground with tantrums.

@truthislight, good work the guy no expect your gra-gra. Am sure he is re-strategizing now

potentpraise:

Where is the commandment thats says you must pay offering in NT? You are the blackest kettle calling pot black.. The biggest fraud you are

"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or out of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7).
................

Stop the extortion.

Stop cursing people because of tith.

truthislight:

You are too blind from all you are saying to even understand the NT.

All the law is fulfill in one word = love.

1. The greatest is love of God.

2. Love of neighbour.

If you love God you will not go against what he hates. You will do only what he likes = love of God.


If you love your neighbour you will not go against what he hates, you will not steal his property, You will do only what he likes and do to him what you will want him to do to you = love of neighbour and golden rule.

Who is your neighbour? = all human.

This ^^ law is written in the heart of "christians".

Read your bible (NT) again, this time drop the greed for money aside.

Greed has blinded you.

"Do what is had work with your hands, so that you will have enough for your self and what to give to others"

dont always see money anytime you see the bible.
Peace.

You have failed to established nothing but make mockery of yourself.. How will you advocate for offering and ignore tithes.. what is the different if not that you have been jumbo jumbo..

truthislight:

"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or out of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7).
................

Stop the extortion.

Stop cursing people because of tith.

You are the biggest hypocrites of all time... You pay offering.. given willing.. No ones pays tithes grudgingly and what is different of what you quote for tithe advocacy?
You say people should give, but they should not give tithes.. Either you say its tithes or its offering what the different.. You are a confused young man

potentpraise:

I wonder how you come from the space and start addressing remains of explanation. Where in all my text did you see me quoting Malachi 3?, Who talk about Melchisedec asking for tithes?

Please before you jump into argument start by reading from the beginning of the thread, don't just jump from the middle of a conclusive paragraph to think you have the whole idea of what has been discussed in the introduction and body of an essay... I wonder where this half baked learned Nigeria is from? You just from no where with no principle of comprehension to start discussing issues that have been fully addressed from the on start of the discussion at the bottom of it

the fact remains, collecting tithes is stealing pure and simple, haba they carry tithe sw e 4 ya head? Be careful o, fly whe no de hia de follow dead bodi enter grave o. God have mercy.

Zikkyy: @truthislight, good work the guy no expect your gra-gra. Am sure he is re-strategizing now

What work has he done.. The good thing was that you know that he has gra-gra and that is a big disease.. Because in proving effective doctrine, you do not use bra-gra but spiritual intelligence which your boy does not have.. so let him go learn before coming here to talk.. I hate people wasting my time... You think i have his time..?

christemmbassey: the fact remains, collecting tithes is stealing pure and simple, haba they carry tithe sw e 4 ya head? Be careful o, fly whe no de hia de follow dead bodi enter grave o. God have mercy.

Collecting offering is what... HOLINESS clear and simple.. many of you are delusional

Its like saying man should not pee, but he can poop.. . Poop and pee are they not excretion? I wonder who thought you guys comprehension or is it that the hot sun in naija is affecting many young guys reasoning?

truthislight:

Rubbish!

Show where the instructions for christans to tith is written in the NT?

Stop evading the issue on ground with tantrums.

Where did it say you must give offering? I hate to argue with someone who hardly know how to understand a context.... You are advocate of technical stealing and stealing by trick.. Why should you collect offering at all.. if you advocate that people should not pay tithes.. The best you can do is tell them to keep their money and not bring anything that has to do with money to church.. Highest ignorance is a common disease here on NL

potentpraise:

You have failed to established nothing but make mockery of yourself.. How will you advocate for offering and ignore tithes.. what is the different if not that you have been jumbo jumbo..

look wha we give in church is NOT OFFERINGS, its only called offerings by religious folks for obvious reasons. What we give is 'gatherings' and we dont 'PAY' BUT 'GIVE', the offering we give is our bodies as living sacrifice and sacrifice of praise, not naira, dolla, pounds etc, stop hanging on a straw , collecting tithe is SIN, a delibrate one for that matter, love not the world or the things in the world, leave ppl monies, go and work, you have hands, legs, brain, you even go school, work, work work. What's wrong with you?

potentpraise:

Collecting offering is what... HOLINESS clear and simple.. many of you are delusional

Its like saying man should not pee, but he can poop.. . Poop and pee are they not excretion? I wonder who thought you guys comprehension or is it that the hot sun in naija is affecting many young guys reasoning?

all these so dat u'll continue to rob ppl? Bro leave ppl monies, go and work, dont be lazy.

christemmbassey: look wha we give in church is NOT OFFERINGS, its only called offerings by religious folks for obvious reasons. What we give is 'gatherings' and we dont 'PAY' BUT 'GIVE', the offering we give is our bodies as living sacrifice and sacrifice of praise, not naira, dolla, pounds etc, stop hanging on a straw , collecting tithe is SIN, a delibrate one for that matter, love not the world or the things in the world, leave ppl monies, go and work, you have hands, legs, brain, you even go school, work, work work. What's wrong with you?

You are just establishing my point. I know tomorrow they will make you pastor in your church and you will keep quiet when they pay you.. Will say its not tithes its offering .. and they were just giving you.. the highlighted part is another method of highest stealing.. including offering for this, offering for that and offering this

potentpraise: You are contradicting yourself and you have done that more than i can count.... If your church say bring offering, and you pay then you have indirectly paid your tithes.
As a matter of fact, many church prefer asking for offering because offering usually more than tithes. Tithes is 10% and offering could be 0-100% of the money earned including your reserved, house and property. So what are you talking about? You better go listen to Obama because he might also be paying offering to your McAthy church or what do you call it?

That was my previous response to Ghosen360

christemmbassey: all these so dat u'll continue to rob ppl? Bro leave ppl monies, go and work, dont be lazy.

You are just running from the shadow of reality if you can not figure out that pee and poop are called excretion and that tithes and offering is the same

Here is another post that i have earlier posted

potentpraise:
Some times i think you seat on the window of the fence and you don't know what going on. Apparently you do not know how churches in advance country operates and you should respect white man when it comes to funs sourcing. There are several organization, big money power houses in many of these churches you see abroad. The building may be small, but don't be deceive a member whose generation grow up in that church has willed their entire generational fund on those church. Its like going to latter day saint church in Utah and start complimenting them that they don't collect tithes. Today, many church have device different method to collect tithes from people.
This is how its done, if you don't know.

1. Tithes
2. Offering
3. Building Project fund
4. Missionary fund for South America, Asia and Africa
5. Donation for any project or relief
6 Tax deduction/ match fund. For every $1 you give some will give $1 to make you $1 look like you have give $2

Also you should know that U.S and many other advance countries governments give non governmental organization such as church and big organization money and donation. Also you know why most church do not have to ask for donation, because most of the baby boomer have alot of money at their disposal and they give willingly and at the end of the year they collect tax reduction on all donated money. While in Nigeria, every church carry their own load. Even the government is having its load too much unbearable for them to carry.

potentpraise:

Where did it say you must give offering? I hate to argue with someone who hardly know how to understand a context.... You are advocate of technical stealing and stealing by trick.. Why should you collect offering at all.. if you advocate that people should not pay tithes.. The best you can do is tell them to keep their money and not bring anything that has to do with money to church.. Highest ignorance is a common disease here on NL

Can you quote one single scripture in the bible that refers to tithes as money Cause as far as the bible is concerned, the mandated tithes is from agricultural produce in the land of israel and nothing else. The idea of tithes being money did not even emerge in the church till the late nineteenth century (less than two hundred years ago) so be careful how you twist scripture to suit your delusions.

Potentpraise is comparing tithes and the giving Paul encouraged in his letters to the Corinthian church.
1Cor 16:1 says 'Now concerning the collection for the saints,as i have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye'.This is actually in response to the happenings in Acts 11:27-30 when a prophecy of famine was made and the gentile christians decided to send help to the jewish christians at Jerusalem.You should also read Rom 15:25-27 which also affirms contribution for poor saints at jerusalem.2Cor9:1 says 'For as touching the ministering to the saints,.......' you see,you can't make this look like the burnt offerings of the Mosaic era.

The whole idea of Christian giving is directed to help poor needy christians.we christians are under grace no more law.God has given us liberty including in our acts of charity which is what our so called offerings really is.we should not only give 10%. if the need arises,we can even give our entire incomes not because we fear a curse but because love for our brethren and our God has been shed abroad in our hearts.

your idea of tithes and offerings stems from Mal 3:8-10 but the giving advocated by Paul is simply contributions to alleviate the sufferings of poor christians.

If you really want to preach on tithe,please explain Deut 14:22-29 which is a more detailed tithe reference.

Pastor Kun:

Can you quote one single scripture in the bible that refers to tithes as money Cause as far as the bible is concerned, the mandated tithes is from agricultural produce in the land of israel and nothing else. The idea of tithes being money did not even emerge in the church till the late nineteenth century (less than two hundred years ago) so be careful how you twist scripture to suit your delusions.

There is no where i established Money as the only thing for tithes and offering. Tithes is 10% of what you make, receive as a profit, harvested from a farm produce, recovered goods from war and if you are into live stocks the new born goats, cow etc 10% of them.

The reason why we use money now was because since the abolition of trade by bata as a major means of transaction and the advent of the usage of money, money has become the best medium because, you can use it to buy what the church need... It like the 700 cars given to Oyedepo.. what will he use it for, but if the cars are sold, the money could be channel to some other places.

Remember Ananias and Sapphira, they brought money after selling their property.... It does not necessary have to be money like i said, but its the best medium... because a 10% of kids goat will not help orphan boy who is also a choir in the church and need school fees.. except the goats is sold and the money is given to the boy to pay his school fees.

potentpraise:

There is no where i established Money as the only thing for tithes and offering. Tithes is 10% of what you make, receive as a profit, harvested from a farm produce, recovered goods from war and if you are into live stocks the new born goats, cow etc 10% of them.

The reason why we use money now was because since the abolition of trade by bata as a major means of transaction and the advent of the usage of money, money has become the best medium because, you can use it to buy what the church need... It like the 700 cars given to Oyedepo.. what will he use it for, but if the cars are sold, the money could be channel to some other places.

Remember Ananias and Sapphira, they brought money after selling their property.... It does not necessary have to be money like i said, but its the best medium... because a 10% of kids goat will not help orphan boy who is also a choir in the church and need school fees.. except the goats is sold and the money is given to the boy to pay his school fees.

Can you quote one single bible passage to support the hubris you've just written?

Candour: Potentpraise is comparing tithes and the giving Paul encouraged in his letters to the Corinthian church.
1Cor 16:1 says 'Now concerning the collection for the saints,as i have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye'.This is actually in response to the happenings in Acts 11:27-30 when a prophecy of famine was made and the gentile christians decided to send help to the jewish christians at Jerusalem.You should also read Rom 15:25-27 which also affirms contribution for poor saints at jerusalem.2Cor9:1 says 'For as touching the ministering to the saints,.......' you see,you can't make this look like the burnt offerings of the Mosaic era.

The whole idea of Christian giving is directed to help poor needy christians.we christians are under grace no more law.God has given us liberty including in our acts of charity which is what our so called offerings really is.we should not only give 10%. if the need arises,we can even give our entire incomes not because we fear a curse but because love for our brethren and our God has been shed abroad in our hearts.

your idea of tithes and offerings stems from Mal 3:8-10 but the giving advocated by Paul is simply contributions to alleviate the sufferings of poor christians.

If you really want to preach on tithe,please explain Deut 14:22-29 which is a more detailed tithe reference.

I have the text for tithes and i could buttress on that... but the initial argument is the explanation of Hebrew 7 and the abolition of tithes in the New Testament which Goshen360 believes is in Hebrew 7..

So the primary intent of this argument was not to established tithes but to clarify that it was never abolished

Pastor Kun:

Can you quote one single bible passage to support the hubris you've just written?

Deuteronomy 14:22-29

22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee:

25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose:

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:

29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.


You can see that there was provision for converting goods into money... which is something most people do today, by converting what they have or give it directly


Here is another one


Act 5:1-3

5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Bros I am all too familiar with deut 14:22-29 and with your quoting it and attempting to use it to justify monetary tithes you have just confirmed to me that you are a fraudulent charlatan. Cause that scripture makes it clear that the money obtained as sales proceeds from tithes goods must be used to purchase what ever the tither desires and he must partake in eating what he buyS with it with his family contrary to what fraudsters like you preach today.

PS: it was my indept study of deut 14:22-29 10 years ago that convinced me that tithes as it is preached today is a monumental fraud on christians and it inspired me to start an anti tithe campaign which by the grace of God has reached millions of souls across the globe today.

potentpraise:

You are just establishing my point. I know tomorrow they will make you pastor in your church and you will keep quiet when they pay you.. Will say its not tithes its offering .. and they were just giving you.. the highlighted part is another method of highest stealing.. including offering for this, offering for that and offering this



That was my previous response to Ghosen360

by the special grace of God i am a pastor, i never collect or eat tithe, in our church, Living Waters, we dont collect tith, i work and when i have the opportunity i give.

Pastor Kun: Bros I am all too familiar with deut 14:22-29 and with your quoting it and attempting to use it to justify monetary tithes you have just confirmed to me that you are a fraudulent charlatan. Cause that scripture makes it clear that the money obtained as sales proceeds from tithes goods must be used to purchase what ever the tither desires and he must partake in eating what he buyS with it with his family contrary to what fraudsters like you preach today.

PS: it was my indept study of deut 14:22-29 10 years ago that convinced me that tithes as it is preached today is a monumental fraud on christians and it inspired me to start an anti tithe campaign which by the grace of God has reached millions of souls across the globe today.

You are wasting my time... If you do not understand my point in using that verses, you will never understand anything so go sit down somewhere

christemmbassey: by the special grace of God i am a pastor, i never collect or eat tithe, in our church, Living Waters, we dont collect tith, i work and when i have the opportunity i give.

Who is telling you am a pastor that depends on tithes and offering? You may not collect tithes and if you collect offering you have just collected tithes, so stop deceiving yourself.
My argument here is not what i do, but biblical doctrine that i believe in.. Except your church does not collect offering, you do not have locus standi

potentpraise:

I have the text for tithes and i could buttress on that... but the initial argument is the explanation of Hebrew 7 and the abolition of tithes in the New Testament which Goshen360 believes is in Hebrew 7..

So the primary intent of this argument was not to established tithes but to clarify that it was never abolished

If you could explain Deut 14:22-29 and Num 18 then you'll surely understand why Heb 7 is an explanation for why it's no longer in force today viz ABOLITION OF LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD which needed tithes for it's survival.

potentpraise:

You are wasting my time... If you do not understand my point in using that verses, you will never understand anything so go sit down somewhere

bro that portion of the bible doesnt need explanation and actually said they should EAT their tith.

Chei, see truthislight don finish this our brother potentpraise.

"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of compulsion for God loves a cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7).

potentpraise:
tithes and offering is the same

you are very shallow indeed.

Tith and offering are the same?


you are a disappointment.

You are just an empty proud crook.

You think if you make noise in your church people will keep quite for you to extort them.

I pity you indeed.

tith is a mandatory and compulsory thing,
but christians are to give voluntary donation for the work of God.

People from their heart love give to God willingly and not that compulsory demands were made on them,

you need to start developing genuine love for God.

You are just westing peoples time with empty ignorant deceitful talk here.