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The Cowardice Of Atheism - Religion (70) - Nairaland

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Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:05pm On Mar 10, 2013
davidylan:

i nearly choked on my goat meat oh my brother... grin

To your stupi,dity. Funny bird
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:08pm On Mar 10, 2013
davidylan:

1. So now you hate having the freewill?

2. God does care, He found a way around it. He died on the cross and has extended Salvation to you... however He wont go around your freewill to force it on you. The choice to accept or reject it still remains yours.

Nothing i said suggested hate

Yes, he ra.ped a virgin (engaged to be married) to give birth to himself, then allow the people to kill him on the cross and so claimed he has saved you. Makes perfect sense.

Are you blind? did you not say


davidylan: [size=15pt]2. God does care, He found a way around it.[/size]

why cant he find a way around making me accept the salvation too, regardless of my freewill
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 10:08pm On Mar 10, 2013
ooman:

To your stupi,dity. Funny bird

Bro... how is it possible that the reason you are rejecting my birthday IV is because you know i know you wont attend? grin

That is the question... hiding behind deflections is not working.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:09pm On Mar 10, 2013
davidylan:

Bro... how is it possible that the reason you are rejecting my birthday IV is because you know i know you wont attend? grin

That is the question... hiding behind deflections is not working.

its not you in this case. We are talking about GOD. you seem to be forgetting that often. He knows end from beginning and he is mute. DONT FORGET ITS ALWAYS ABOUT A GOD IN THIS DISCUSSION NOT YOU OR ANY OF YOUR DUMB ANALOGIES
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 10:10pm On Mar 10, 2013
ooman:

Nothing i said suggested hate

Yes, he ra.ped a virgin (engaged to be married) to give birth to himself, then allow the people to kill him on the cross and so claimed he has saved you. Makes perfect sense.

Are you blind? did you not say

It may not make sense to you but all He has asked from you is to simply accept the IV. Nothing more.

ooman:
why cant he find a way around making me accept the salvation too, regardless of my freewill

Why? You dont like freewill anymore?
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 10:11pm On Mar 10, 2013
ooman:

its not you in this case. We are talking about GOD. you seem to be forgetting that often. He knows end from beginning and he is mute. DONT FORGET ITS ALWAYS ABOUT A GOD IN THIS DISCUSSION NOT YOU OR ANY OF YOUR DUMB ANALOGIES

But why is God knowing you wont accept His invitation stopping you from accepting it? You have the choice to change the course of your life but taking His invitation bro. Do it... honestly its not the horrible monasteric lifestyly you fear it is.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:12pm On Mar 10, 2013
davidylan:

It may not make sense to you but all He has asked from you is to simply accept the IV. Nothing more.

But he knows end from beginning, he should have found a more appealing way to present the IV


davidylan: Why? You dont like freewill anymore?

what suggested that. Since he cares, he must find a way to give me. How does a father have his way around his 2 years old?
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by cyrexx: 10:12pm On Mar 10, 2013
davidylan:

1. So now you hate having the freewill?

2. God does care, He found a way around it. He died on the cross and has extended Salvation to you... however He wont go around your freewill to force it on you. The choice to accept or reject it still remains yours.

Is this your definition of freewill? Free to serve god or else be tortured forever. What is free in that. It's like a lady is free to marry me or else I send her to my personal torture chamber for the rest of her life. You are telling me that's freewill. Na wa o.

1 Like

Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:13pm On Mar 10, 2013
davidylan:

But why is God knowing you wont accept His invitation stopping you from accepting it? You have the choice to change the course of your life but taking His invitation bro. Do it... honestly its not the horrible monasteric lifestyly you fear it is.

because if i accept it, then he is not omniscient anymore. You seem to have lost what you are really discussing.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:14pm On Mar 10, 2013
cyrexx:

Is this your definition of freewill? Free to serve god or else be tortured forever. What is free in that. It's like a lady is free to marry me or else I send her to my personal torture chamber for the rest of her life. You are telling me that's freewill. Na wa o.

The Christians are dumb as a chicken. Discussions with them must always be in free time like this!!
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 10:18pm On Mar 10, 2013
ooman:

But he knows end from beginning, he should have found a more appealing way to present the IV

what suggested that. Since he cares, he must find a way to give me. How does a father have his way around his 2 years old?

Bro... the only thing He has asked of you is to simply believe... easy. you dont have to sacrifice a goat, bow down 90 times, climb 20 mountains.... only believe and confess Him as Lord.

The only problem is He wont force it down your throat if you dont want it. You're not a 2 yr old... you're mature enough to be able to think and make a decision on how you want to spend eternity.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by cyrexx: 10:19pm On Mar 10, 2013
ooman:

The Christians are dumb as a chicken. Discussions with them must always be in free time like this!!

Tell me about it. cool
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 10:19pm On Mar 10, 2013
ooman:

because if i accept it, then he is not omniscient anymore. You seem to have lost what you are really discussing.

You seem to be running in blind alleys. How does God cease to be omniscient if you accept His invitation?
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by wiegraf: 10:20pm On Mar 10, 2013
greatgenius: God doesnt have to do anything to support his omniscience. he already is.. having to do anything to support it means he is not..and that is not possible..and again the outcome cannot be changed violates freewill.. the outcome can always and is always changing..it doesnt violate freewill or omniscient..

, this is a blatant LALALALALA. If you have nothing to add, move along rather than this. LALALALALAs are annoying. This is basic stuff, you aren't even providing proper alternatives like inesqor or david are attempting, you're spouting the same old illogical nonsense.

It's already been pointed out that god or whatever is omniscient need not do anything, the mere fact that it is omniscient means a set path must take place. Simple. There is nothing 'god' or whatever it is, nothing any agent at all including you, regardless of what you will, can do about that. Unless it is wrong, in which case it isn't omniscient, or is it?

Here's an example as so many of you seem to find this very simple thing so very hard to conceptualize. If omniscient showed up today and told you that you will jump off a bridge in Lagos tomorrow, guess what, you could board a plane to New York this night and you will still jump off that cliff, regardless of whatever anyone or anything does or wills, else the omniscient is wrong. In which case it isn't omniscient, simple. Make whatever choices you wish, things MUST play out as predicted.

As for the bolded, gaddamit htf do you know that? Worse, this isn't even a discussion about the nature of this universe per se, it's about the possibility of having omniscience and free will in any given universe.

greatgenius: lol how? again having no say violates their freewill. it seems like it is a dichotomy but it really is not..
Above
greatgenius:
the infinite creator being omniscient is a fact
Do you ever learn? Please, do tell where this 'infinite creator' is or shut up. Do you want me to spank into you again that you don't go around spouting nonsense as 'fact' without getting burned? Tell sheeple this is a 'fact', don't tell people willing to use their brains.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by cyrexx: 10:20pm On Mar 10, 2013
ooman:

The Christians are dumb as a chicken. Discussions with them must always be in free time like this!!

Tell me about it. cool
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:23pm On Mar 10, 2013
davidylan:

Bro... the only thing He has asked of you is to simply believe... easy. you dont have to sacrifice a goat, bow down 90 times, climb 20 mountains.... only believe and confess Him as Lord.

You still dont get it. Whatever decision i make, God already knows, since he is omniscient. Him, offering me salvation based on my own decision HAS NULLIFIED HIS OMNISCIENCE, that is if he cares. If he doesnt care, he might know i wont accept but still allow salvation to be based on MY decision. Even at that, HIS OMNISCIENCE IS STILL NULLIFIED. Dont forget we are debating that omniscience and freewill are mutually exclusive, because now you are getting emotional, wanting me to accept a non existent being as my "savior". stupi.dity

davidylan: The only problem is He wont force it down your throat if you dont want it. You're not a 2 yr old... you're mature enough to be able to think and make a decision on how you want to spend eternity.

did you mention eternity?? You know not what you talk about. Consciousness in a disordered state? common, i thought you knew better!!
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:25pm On Mar 10, 2013
davidylan:

You seem to be running in blind alleys. How does God cease to be omniscient if you accept His invitation?

because his Aforeknowledge says that i will not accept the invitation. YOU NEED TO REVISE YOUR OWN ANALOGY AGAIN
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 10:33pm On Mar 10, 2013
ooman:

because his Aforeknowledge says that i will not accept the invitation. YOU NEED TO REVISE YOUR OWN ANALOGY AGAIN

how did you know this?
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:34pm On Mar 10, 2013
davidylan:

how did you know this?

just revise your analogy again pls!
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by ooman(m): 10:44pm On Mar 10, 2013
Good night guys, sweet dreams to atheists, sweet revelations to Christians, suicide bombing to Muslims.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 12:14am On Mar 11, 2013
lol.....even I had to give up.


This thread has broken records and also the hearts of many christians.

What Ihedinobi, Davidylan and co dont realise is that I am not arguing with them for their own sake. I wanted to draw out their denial over simple contradiction in Omniscience and Freewill existing over 5 pages and it has reached 7 pages.


Any honest christian reading this thread would have lost faith in these guys. They are denying a standard problem in philosophy, this is not even something that should be denied but my christian friends are denying it. Shame on Ihedinobi, Dadvidylan, Greatgenius and co


Here are two encyclopedias of philosophy discussing the issue.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/free-will-foreknowledge/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/foreknow/



Some christians are just too foolish. They deny logic and claim victory in the arguments.


Case closed. Congrats to Oman and Wiegraff, you guys did well.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 12:38am On Mar 11, 2013
greatgenius: you should be hahahaing at your ignorance not my comment.. what is imperfect about experiencing something you have created.. there is no imperfertion in the universe you get exactly what you choose.. i dont think you understand what it means for something to be imperfect or faulty( using your definition).. agian none of the things you listed was imperfect.. something faulty is not the same thing as something being wrong or bad.. being wrong or bad is a value judgment..something being faulty is not the same thing as something being wrong or bad
You said that for argument sake. Or you are just being ignorant about what have been said in your so called holy books. What nonsense are you trying to spew out here?

Please, you are not making any sense as the religionists always do with the fairytale talks.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by greatgenius: 1:31am On Mar 11, 2013
Logicboy03: lol.....even I had to give up.


This thread has broken records and also the hearts of many christians.

What Ihedinobi, Davidylan and co dont realise is that I am not arguing with them for their own sake. I wanted to draw out their denial over simple contradiction in Omniscience and Freewill existing over 5 pages and it has reached 7 pages.


Any honest christian reading this thread would have lost faith in these guys. They are denying a standard problem in philosophy, this is not even something that should be denied but my christian friends are denying it. Shame on Ihedinobi, Dadvidylan, Greatgenius and co


ere are two encyclopedias of philosophy discussing the issue.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/free-will-foreknowledge/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/foreknow/



Some christians are just too foolish. The deny logic and claim victory in the arguments.


Case closed. Congrats to Oman and Wiegraff, you guys did well.
ok maybe i should make myself clear on this topic..i am not arguing against the contradiction. my stance was and is that omniscience and free will can and does co-exist. just like light and darkness co-exist..love/hate, good/bad, positive/negative, white/black etc..these are all "contradictions" but they co-exist..in the world of relationships/relavity they all seem like contradictions but in the realm of the sublime they are not..ultimately like white and black seemingly "contradictory" stuff are one and the same. different degrees of the same thing..

yes ultimately there is no such thing as freewill, becuase like darkness it is an illusion(but so is physicallity or more precisely relavity) and God is only playing a game with himself..so like matter, freewill is a real illusion.. the problem with this argument is if you see yourself as seperate from God then the more deeper you get into it the more confused you become which is evidenced from most of the responses here..
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 1:35am On Mar 11, 2013
greatgenius: ok maybe i should make myself clear on this topic..i am not arguing against the contradiction. my stance was and is that omniscience and free will can and does co-exist. just like light and darkness co-exist..love/hate, good/bad, positive/negative, white/black etc..these are all "contradictions" but they co-exist..in the world of relationships/relavity they all seem like contradictions but in the realm of the sublime they are not..ultimately like white and black seemingly "contradictory" stuff are one and the same. different degrees of the same thing..

yes ultimately there is no such thing as freewill, becuase like darkness it is an illusion(but so is physicallity or more precisely relavity) and God is only playing a game with himself..so like matter, freewill is a real illusion.. the problem with this argument is if you see yourself as seperate from God then the more deeper you get into it the more confused you become which is evidenced from most of the responses here..




You backtracked and then went on to repeat your old claims again.

You accepted my point and then went back to your opposing point.


Which one is it? There is a contradiction or not?
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by greatgenius: 1:42am On Mar 11, 2013
all4naija: You said that for argument sake. Or you are just being ignorant about what have been said in your so called holy books. What nonsense are you trying to spew out here?
Please, you are not making any sense as the religionists always do with the fairytale talks.
you are at the height and epitome of ignorance brother man..my so called holy books? religionist?.. so in your delusion anyone who "supports" a religionist in their attemtp to put some sense into your warped mind must be a religionist themselves right?..if he is not for me then he is against me right?
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 2:20am On Mar 11, 2013
greatgenius: you are at the height and epitome of ignorance brother man..my so called holy books? religionist?.. so in your delusion anyone who "supports" a religionist in their attemtp to put some sense into your warped mind must be a religionist themselves right?..if he is not for me then he is against me right?
please, clear your mind of your hallucination. It tells you are living in imaginary world that have been instilled into your mind. I would dare you face your African fairy tales of legendary than these foreign holy books meant to put you to the edge of emotions.

You are ignorant my friend!

I wish I am there with you, I would slap the nonsense out of your head. It is beclouding your reasoning, son!

Indeed, you comment like Davidylan in disguise.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by greatgenius: 3:50am On Mar 11, 2013
Logicboy03:



You backtracked and then went on to repeat your old claims again.

You accepted my point and then went back to your opposing point.


Which one is it? There is a contradiction or not?
i haven't backtracked you just obviously does not not understand as usual..
let me put it this way..are those who claim God created or the universe came about through a series of process taking "billions of years" right? yes..what about those who claim he seems to have created the universe in an instant. well they are also right. God created the universe in an "instantbillions"..both sides are right.. but to you and a lot of other people being right means the other must be wrong.

now to your question. is there a contradiction or not? well answer this is there a contradiction between white and black or they are actually one and the same..

my answer to your question is there is/isnot a contradiction..( This is sort of in the same line as my statement in another thread that "God is everywhere and nowhere in particular" mantra that @Anomy failed to get. so i wont be surprise if you also fail to grasp this is/isnot concept)
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by greatgenius: 3:57am On Mar 11, 2013
all4naija: please, clear your mind of your hallucination. It tells you are living in imaginary world you have be instilled into your mind. I would dare you face your African fairy tales of legendary than these foreign holy books meant to put you to the edge of emotions.

You are ignorant my friend!

I wish I am there with you, I would slap the nonsense out of your head. It is beclouding your reasoning, son!

Indeed, you comment like Davidylan in disguise.
the bolded actually had me laughing.. but trust me god brother i live in no imaginary world..i need no holy books or african tales..i am passed all these things..

btw i apologize for the name calling it just sometimes hard to come to grasp with the level of reasoning of some of you here sometimes..i have no idea how you deduced from my earlier statements about me being a religionist or needing a holy book..anyway i apologize for the name calling god brother
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Nobody: 4:36am On Mar 11, 2013
Logicboy03: lol.....even I had to give up.


This thread has broken records and also the hearts of many christians.

What Ihedinobi, Davidylan and co dont realise is that I am not arguing with them for their own sake. I wanted to draw out their denial over simple contradiction in Omniscience and Freewill existing over 5 pages and it has reached 7 pages.


Any honest christian reading this thread would have lost faith in these guys. They are denying a standard problem in philosophy, this is not even something that should be denied but my christian friends are denying it. Shame on Ihedinobi, Dadvidylan, Greatgenius and co


Here are two encyclopedias of philosophy discussing the issue.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/free-will-foreknowledge/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/foreknow/



Some christians are just too foolish. They deny logic and claim victory in the arguments.


Case closed. Congrats to Oman and Wiegraff, you guys did well.

Lol. Logicboy the king of illogic has closed the case! All rise! Abeg, go and sit down somewhere. You atheists have no arguments. If there have been seven pages, they were seven pages of incredible illogic from your royal illogicians. How does someone proudly make a circular argument so many times and defend it with even more circular argument and abuse and lies and still claim any kind of superior intellectuality? Especially when they spend so much time appealing to the audience they should be convincing? Smh

Logicboy, you're a joke o jare.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by dotcomnamename: 4:40am On Mar 11, 2013
[size=22pt]Hey all Atheist, Questions for you here[/size] https://www.nairaland.com/1221450/questions-all-atheist-nairaland
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by Kay17: 7:19am On Mar 11, 2013
davidylan:

this is amazing idiocy really.

Inesqor gave a brilliant analogy: a computer programmer can design a program such that it spews out a particular outcome regardless of your input. Now you are at liberty to determine what your input will be... the output from the computer merely flows as a consequence of your own choice. But it is not farfetched to reason that the programmer is quite able to know what all possible outcomes could be based on the choices available.

So what exactly was your question? I cant seem to understand it at all.

An input branching/flowing out to numerous possible outcomes follows the thread of linear TIME! That's not coherent with the timeless God!

Davidlyan pls explain further.
Re: The Cowardice Of Atheism by cyrexx: 7:19am On Mar 11, 2013
dotcom_na_me_na_me: [size=22pt]Hey all Atheist, Questions for you here[/size] https://www.nairaland.com/1221450/questions-all-atheist-nairaland

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