The concept of sin was invented my man to control our thoughts and actions!

Nothing more and nothing less

It would be far more productive if we stopped the abuse of the 'sin' word and instead Just said that something was wrong!

eg. Homosexuality is wrong (then give the reasons)

Are you insane or what?
In the sight of God, sin is sin whether homosexuality or fornication.
Andpleasereverend as i have said time and time again, a carnal mind can not understand the things of God. PLease read Romans 8, the whole chapter.

You will understand your plight better.

@MrPataki

Seeing as the Bible is a collection of fairy stories written by man it would of course make no sense to read the chapter that you have given.

I would recommend that you read the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit, much better story with more adventure and just as believable as the Bible!

Peace

You see where you wallow now,
you are your greatest defeat, i am very sure you find it lazy to pick a book and read except it is a Indecency book or the one that excites your misbehavioural tendencies towards sex

mrpataki:

You see where you wallow now,
you are your greatest defeat, i am very sure you find it lazy to pick a book and read except it is a Indecency book or the one that excites your misbehavioural tendencies towards sex

I do not see where I wallow. I do not see any evidence of defeat from where I am standing. I have a happy and interesting life. I am healthy and I do the things I want to do. I am financially independent and do not have a care in the World!

I read many books, Indecency books I do not read. I prefer the real thing in place of Indecency books which I get plenty of

As for your comments about misbehavioural  tendencies towards sex, please explain exactly what you mean?

I am sure that when you have sex (poor woman) that you have your bible on hand to show you the way 

I just do what my body tells me is right! After all, according to your fairy story book we are made in Gods image, so if I feel Hot and have sex it has to be what God wanted me to do 

Epitome of it all:
POINTLESS

@Mr Pataki

I am still waiting for you answer on what you deem to be 'misbehavioural tendencies towards sex'

Please answer!

Thank you in advance

If we were in old testament times, the world would have been rained with thunder, brimstone, lightening, and floods

experience:

If we were in old testament times, the world would have been rained with thunder, brimstone, lightening, and floods

Yes of course, only in old testament times, I supposed that you failed to notice the recent tsunami, the tornado in London and all the other freak weather systems,

And before you ask, NO I do not beleive in the story of Noah and the Ark

Really i dont understand your type.
You dont stand for anything,neither here nor there.
I know where the bible places peeps like your type.

mrpataki:

Really i don't understand your type.
You don't stand for anything,neither here nor there.
I know where the bible places peeps like your type.

@MrPataki

Who cares where the Bible places anything. It was written by manipulative control freaks to control the thoughts of people like you. Weak people with no reasoning or willpower.

Why is it that you think that just because I do not believe in the Bible then I do not stand for anything?

I stand for sensibility and reason. Treating people how you yourself would like to be treated. I stand for compassion and love. I stand for harmony and humanity. I stand for freedom of thought without persecution from Bible bashers like you.

You on the other hand stand for hypocrisy. Your main aim is to brand everybody a sinner and you tell us that we will all burn in hell if we do not believe what is written in your book. The aim of your messages are clear. Believe me or you will suffer for eternity.

You use the Bible as a tool in your anti-human work. You are an envoy of the manipulative people that wrote the Bible to control our thoughts and actions in the first place for their own gains.

Who is the real devil Mr. Pataki?

Take a look in the mirror and you will see him!

@ Reverend,
Since i entered this forum and i observed your trend, at first, i thought what was the point, there are many of your types out there, who believes in self righteousness, but again i thought, there is a way that seemeth right to a man, but the end thereof is destruction.

I don't place judgement on people, you have raised allegations here addressing your case, but i would rather hold my peace on that, i can see that you had once an encounter with God, but along the line you lost it, the BIBLE is a complete story on how various individuals lived their various liveshere on earth and their encounter with God, which we as christians use to know that which is right or wrong, Even God too has interest in Man, thats why he sent his Son to come down to earth to reconcile man back to God. As well it shows the diversity of the Almighty God thats why in any situation you find yourself, he is always present there, and he alone knows all things. All God wants is a relationship with you, maybe you should try it out and you will inderstand what i mean.

I used to be confused as you are, am not saying am perfectly clear as to the things of God because even God has made us to know that we cannot know everything about him, no man knows how he looks like, and his thoughts are far greater than what we think, so his ways are. His ways are highly unsearchable, and the way we reason is far different from the way He reasons. All we know is that all he created was beautiful and wonderful and that includes you Reverend. and we are made in his Image and likeness.

You use the Bible as a tool in your anti-human work. You are an envoy of the manipulative people that wrote the Bible to control our thoughts and actions in the first place for their own gains.

What do i stand to gain from you?

As to looking to the mirror and seeing the devil, guess thats what hunts you in your dreams,and even reality get back to God and you will see things clearly.

Seun,

Here is the true problem:

The consequences of pre-marital sex in the bible were this: Get married to the girl you fornicated with.

The consequences of homosexuality is not getting into heaven.

Of course the idea of 'fornication' is a more complicated issue, since the meaning of the word can only be said to imply premarital sex, it directly relates to prostitution, etc but only by our implication does it refer to premarital sex.

I'm going to try and be the first person to actually use scripture to respond instead of lashing out using personal opinions. In James 2:10-12 James talks about this very thing. And the person who keeps all of the laws excpt one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God's laws. 11. For the same God who said, "Do not commit adultry," also said, "Do not murder." So if you murder someone, you have broken the entire law, even if you do not commit adultery."

This clearly states that if you sin you sin. So it DOES NOT MATTER if one sin is greater than other. The bible says if you commit one sin you are guilty of all sins. So is one greater than another? Well, it might be, but it doesn't matter because you are guilty of committing the worst sin imagineable along with it. We can't live trying to only commit small sins and hope we don't upset God. We need to run from all sin, and when we do mess up pray for forgiveness. And yes we will mess up, but the bible promises that if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I hope this helps, the bible is always the best source for the right answers.

That you even admit homosexuality is sin, thats a start!

Sin is Sin tho

it ultimately leads to death!

Homosexuality is worse. It is a PERVESION of the natural order.

In the same vein, sleeping with animals (ouch!!) is MUCH worse than homosexuality. It betokens a worse type of spiritual disorder.

Imagine someone walking with his hands (and is thus upside down) and insisting that he is able to get from one place to another!!!!

It make me sad when i see topics like this but nobody makes us a judge over each other, and u cant fight for God he knows the best he his d alfa an omega, but i think with my own view and God judgment in the bible i think God do forgive pple that fornicate than homosexuals, DAvid fornicate and he was forgiven, i am refering to uriah wife, a woman in d bible who is a sex worker was forgiven by Jesus in d bible, but when ut comes to issue of homosexual God destroy sodom and gomora just because of this and today u see guest house all around the town where pple go to to carry out the habit of fornication while it will be hard to see somebody so bold to go out with his fellow man to anguest house to practice the act of homosexuality, but upon all lets leave the judgment to God.

Both are Greater sins ooooooooo!Sin is sin whether small or big!And both is an abomination before God

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Translation - no sin is greater than the other

Christians are not supposed to have sex out side of marriage, that is called fornication. Christians do not recognize Gay marriage.

Marriage provides a means for companionship, fellowship, and procreation within a legal form according to God's laws. The urge/sex drive between man and woman was established for procreation purposes, which is why it's only sinful outside of the boundaries of marriage.
Marriage, as anyone married can attest, demands a great deal of attention and can therefore get in the way at times of worshiping God with all your heart. For those who are able to demonstrate self-control and need not be married, it's easier for them to focus their attention on God.

Personally I do not think all sins should be equal, we are supposed to have been made in his image and likeness and if man knows well enough that not all crimes should be punishable the same way then I wonder why the almighthy God benevolent at that would not know so.
We have to admit that there those sins that will always be with us even up until when we die mostly those we are ignorant of, say someone is travelling and drops a biscuit wrapper out of the car and later on gets an accident and dies instantly will go to the same place as someone who has intentionally and systematically raped and killed young children all his life? Or be in the same place as adolf hitler?
Why would one even say homosexuality is a sin? In the days the bible was written these things might have not been understood today we know that this thing abounds even in the animal kingdom in fact the catholic church has declared that having homosexual feelings is not a sin but acting on them is a sin, talk about double standard.
You can mirror this side by side with the fact that apostle paul did not condemn slavery, in fact jesus christ( all due respect ) did not say anything about it, so how come we humans know better today that it would be wrong to enslave your fellow man?
All the more buttresses my point that the bible is 50 percent history 40 percent man's thoughts 10 percent inspiration.

Yes, its true that all Christian religions broke off from Catholic Christianity. However, please don't compare Catholic with other Christianity religion. You see we may share some of the same basic religion however Catholics add in little things that are not in the bible that I see as sinful or as you say double standards. Mary and the saints are not worthy of the adoration, God is. And the priests are not in any manner our father.

If Catholics are now accepting Homosexuality that only shows how much they are separating from the original beliefs of the church. Homosexuality is a sin. God made women and men so they can reproduce him more followers. However, as a Christian, we need to love people who are "gay" but not their act. God destroyed Sodom and Gemorrah for this very thing "homosexuality". Read the old testament Lev.18:22 and New testament - Jude 1:but focus on verses 6, 7,8

7) "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh(same sex) are exhibited as an example in under going the punishment of eternal fire"
Yet in the same manner these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile anglic majesties

Yes, the Bible mentions slavery and protections for "slaves". Notice i quote "slaves" because slavery in the bible is different to today's slavery. Slavery in the Bible is more like indentured servants. (Today we call them live-in maids) Slavery in the old testament was a volountary act by the slave if they couldn't afford living expenses. They would submit themselves to be slaves in exchange for food, shelter, etc. When their time was up they could choose to go or stay. Many stayed in gratitude to their master. The Bible (Jesus) teaches how "slaves" should be treated and how slaves should respect their master. One man (pharoah) took "slavery" to another level we all know that God redeemed the Israelites from 4oo years of slavery in egypt

On another note, although modern day slavery wasn't started by Christians, Christians have worked hard for the abolition of slavery. No other religion stood up against slavery instead they sit back and criticize the scriptures and the people who were/are doing the work to get rid of slavery.

Peace

Cayon:

Yes, its true that all Christian religions broke off from Catholic Christianity. However, please don't compare Catholic with other Christianity religion. You see we may share some of the same basic religion however Catholics add in little things that are not in the bible that I see as sinful or as you say double standards. Mary and the saints are not worthy of the adoration, God is. And the priests are not in any manner our father.

If Catholics are now accepting Homosexuality that only shows how much they are separating from the original beliefs of the church. Homosexuality is a sin. God made women and men so they can reproduce him more followers. However, as a Christian, we need to love people who are "gay" but not their act. God destroyed Sodom and Gemorrah for this very thing "homosexuality". Read the old testament Lev.18:22 and New testament - Jude 1:but focus on verses 6, 7,8

7) "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh(same sex) are exhibited as an example in under going the punishment of eternal fire"
Yet in the same manner these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile anglic majesties

Yes, the Bible mentions slavery and protections for "slaves". Notice i quote "slaves" because slavery in the bible is different to today's slavery. Slavery in the Bible is more like indentured servants. (Today we call them live-in maids) Slavery in the old testament was a volountary act by the slave if they couldn't afford living expenses. They would submit themselves to be slaves in exchange for food, shelter, etc. When their time was up they could choose to go or stay. Many stayed in gratitude to their master. The Bible (Jesus) teaches how "slaves" should be treated and how slaves should respect their master. One man (pharoah) took "slavery" to another level we all know that God redeemed the Israelites from 4oo years of slavery in egypt

On another note, although modern day slavery wasn't started by Christians, Christians have worked hard for the abolition of slavery. No other religion stood up against slavery instead they sit back and criticize the scriptures and the people who were/are doing the work to get rid of slavery.

Peace

You may benefit from really reading you bible about slavery. Here we go;

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)




Where in all these is the sort of slavery you described? I see no condemnation of this barbaric practice nowhere in the bible?

Huxley:

Read my third para and read what you copied.  any similarity? you thoughts please.

I have to read later as i have to go

Peace

Cayon:

Huxley:

Read my third para and read what you copied.  you thoughts please. Thanks

I have to read later as i have to go

Peace

The essential thrust of slavery then is more/less the same today - the forceful restricting of another's free (usually on pain of death).  This usually entails a monetary transaction in which the slave is taken in exchange for money.  Slave could also be obtained as spoils of wars.  Whichever way they are obtained, they lose their freedom and in many cases their offsprings also lose their freedom to the slave master.

The OT describes this form of slavery in great details, even talking about their lack of rights of inheritance, what recourse to law were available to them, etc.  It basically defined them as the "properties of their master".

As to the subject of willing submitting to "slavery", no where is this recorded in the bible as "slavery", to my knowledge.  I would like to be corrected on this.  In fact consider the folowing;

Leviticus 25:39 " If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave".

So indentured labourers were NOT to be taken as slaves.

@cayon
Seems you have your hands full already . But honestly do you think those two people deserve the same punishment?
So check this out, sin is a very big part of christianity, it is in fact the criteria that would tell if you will participate in eternity and if you and the catholics disagree on this then it means the catholics are not going to share eternity.
As we speak no one knows with evidence that homosexuality is not natural, I pointed out to you that it is found in the animal kingdom, so who put it there?
I really want to read how you will explain the texts huxley gave you so I will see how you will defend such inhumane practice, I keep saying it these were the words of man. I am equally suprised at how you can compare house maids to them, total disrespect for the nanny profession too, these people are paid and can leave anytime, imagine owning a human being! That's so not God like!

@chris

You can not have an intelligent discussion with a person who think that there is no proof of God's existence, or people that think that there is proof of no God. There is a common x in this case, but the dogma of the entrenched positions does not allow of a logical deduction on y, so you end up with an argument rather than a debate.

I'll answer your email on homosexuality later

Peace

homosexuality is disgusting and despicable!

@cayon
Ok gladly waiting for your answer, I like to say beleive in God is mostly about faith I don't expect everything to check out.
@brash
I know, mostly when its dude's but it happens and we all have to deal with it.

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body."

" Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination"


"Which is a greater sin?". . . . Both!!! For neither is acceptable to God!!!

Thank you Moyola

@Chris

Read Moyola's email[b], that's my final answer to you[/b] It is [b]S[/b]hort, [b]S[/b]imple and [b]S[/b]weet (SSS)

Peace

Cayon:

Thank you Moyola

u welkum!!!