Welcome, Guest: Join Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 2,739,505 members, 6,496,387 topics. Date: Sunday, 19 September 2021 at 03:16 AM

The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? (2251 Views)

The Religious Mind? / Theists And Atheists What Do U Think Of Pascal's Wager. / The Religious Symbolism Of The Twelve Days Of Christmas (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (Reply) (Go Down)

The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 12:37am On May 01, 2013
Which is certain? The Atheist wager or the religious (Paschal's) wager?

Lets see what logic thinks!

The Atheist/Nontheist/Agnostic view :- 1) There is no god because there is no single shred of evidence of it/him/her/whatever.

2) Even if there is a god, one cant be certain of which is true because there are thousands of gods and all religions claim miracles/visions/revelations/spirit/holy book/whatever.

The religious' view

1) There is a god that came from nothing, immediately became supra-complex (much more complex than the whole universe) and conscious and made everything from nothing (even though they tell atheists "nothing comes from nothing". )

2) Every religion has its own god and claims that god to be the only true, living god and its son/prophet/priest/whatever the only way to that god, eternal life and salvation.

Well, if an entity called god exist, only one god can be true because all gods are jealous of each other, their lord in jealousy being yahweh, whose name is jealous (bible). There would therefore be constant war of the gods - but there is nothing like that - so only one ultimate god is true. But who is the one?

Is there a certain way to be sure of this true god? No! Why? Because this god decided to be mute, leaving his proponents in darkness of "faith".

Now

Since all religions claim to be right and since only one can be right. Who has therefore made a better choice? He who decide to abstain in the face of uncertainty - atheist - OR He who decide to choose randomly in the face of uncertainty - the religious and their different gods.

Here is the wager :

The religious wager -

If you decide to choose one of the many gods and that god happens to be the true god, then you have lost nothing but have gained in this life and also an after life. All theists say this to atheists!

THE PROBLEM WITH IT

What if the god chosen (yahweh, allah, zeus, ifa etc etc etc) is NOT the true god? Then the more you worship that god, the more you piss the true god off! For instance, if you are a christian and allah happens to be the true god, then the more you worship yahweh , the more you piss allah off and vice versa. Destruction is therefore certain for you. Your lake of fire will burn like the supernova of a star. You are doomed for all eternity even though you are religious. tongue

The Atheist Wager

If you decide to abstain from choosing a god because there is no single shred of evidence of any true god, and when you die and finally face that true god, and he asks you - boy, why didn't you worship meeeeee and meeee only while you were alive?? angry the wise atheist will simply reply that "there were too many gods on earth, each one shouting to be true in his/her/its book and because that was confusing, I decided to abstain and decided to wait till I can see and be certain of the only true god before I offer worship to any god, so I dont make mistake and choose the wrong god, pissing you off". Then the true god will reply "My son, you are indeed wise, enter into my rest".

CONCLUSION

Eternity is much more certain for atheists than for theists.

ADVICE

My people, it is now certain that the only logical, confidently assured way to eternal life is atheism. Therefore choose wisely.
Half a word is spoken to a wise child, he deconstructs the full meaning!! - The Yorubas

Peace
Ooman.
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 12:26pm On May 02, 2013
^^^Edited
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 12:56pm On May 02, 2013
Guy, go back to Romance section...it suits you more.
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 1:17pm On May 02, 2013
lol lol

Click on the link in my Signature for evidence of The Creator.

hehehe grin grin grin grin grin grin
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 2:57pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi: Guy, go back to Romance section...it suits you more.

lazy thing tongue
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 3:01pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

lazy thing tongue

Nah men...not just a lazy thing...I am a very lazy idiiot with a "puny brain".
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by benodic: 3:05pm On May 02, 2013
it is so unfortunate what is happening in the world religions today. with each claiming that it is the only way to God. i really hope that this atheist point of view will help some to have a change in their view point and dig deeper into the mystery of God beyond the narrow confines of their individual religion. you can never talk about talk less of defending what you have not experienced.

1 Like

Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ninja4life(m): 3:15pm On May 02, 2013
Lol at u are wise my son enter into rest while god give u chance to defend urself guy u will burn in hell;cheesycheesycheesycheesycheesycheesycheesycheesy hmm d wager u better give ur life to d god of thunder shango atleast u can see and feel it forget about d scientific explanation cos d god of shango is needed for d sparking to occur.u get my flow go and serve d god of shango as a yorubaman ok he will grant u eternal life.

1 Like

Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 4:03pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi:

Nah men...not just a lazy thing...I am a very lazy idiiot with a "puny brain".

Striky, what is happening to you? Its now common for you to abuse yourself.

I hope you have checked into a mental asylum sha before you get to the street.

You seem to be suffering from Acute Personality Disorder

See a doctor immediately.
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 4:05pm On May 02, 2013
ninja4life: Lol at u are wise my son enter into rest while god give u chance to defend urself guy u will burn in hell;cheesycheesycheesycheesycheesycheesycheesycheesy hmm d wager u better give ur life to d god of thunder shango atleast u can see and feel it forget about d scientific explanation cos d god of shango is needed for d sparking to occur.u get my flow go and serve d god of shango as a yorubaman ok he will grant u eternal life.

what if shango is not the true god??
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 6:15pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

Striky, what is happening to you? Its now common for you to abuse yourself.

I hope you have checked into a mental asylum sha before you get to the street.

You seem to be suffering from Acute Personality Disorder

See a doctor immediately.

LWKMD!!! Guy you indeed are very funny...no worries man, everything is very okay.

Hmmm...let's see if my brain can process what the OP is about grin
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 6:48pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

Striky, what is happening to you? Its now common for you to abuse yourself.

I hope you have checked into a mental asylum sha before you get to the street.

You seem to be suffering from Acute Personality Disorder

See a doctor immediately.



Self flagellation is normal for many christians.


Afterall, jesus went willingly into crucifixion


Remember how david cried and rolled on the ground so that god wouldnt kill his son?
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 6:58pm On May 02, 2013
Logicboy03:



Self flagellation is normal for many christians.


Afterall, jesus went willingly into crucifixion


Remember how david cried and rolled on the ground so that god wouldnt kill his son?

Butthurt expression again? grin
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 7:04pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi:

LWKMD!!! Guy you indeed are very funny...no worries man, everything is very okay.

Hmmm...let's see if my brain can process what the OP is about grin

its cool you are still stable.

you seemed hysterical

just looking out for you

perhaps the atheist wager is driving you crazy cheesy

just be ok man, thats all thats important cool
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 7:05pm On May 02, 2013
Logicboy03:



Self flagellation is normal for many christians.


Afterall, jesus went willingly into crucifixion


Remember how david cried and rolled on the ground so that god wouldnt kill his son?

its a pity what god can turn people into sad
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 7:08pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

its cool you are still stable.

you seemed hysterical

just looking out for you

perhaps the atheist wager is driving you crazy cheesy

just be ok man, thats all thats important cool

Thanks man!

Atheist wager is driving me crazy?...you wish!

Need I address the OP? I really do not want to make you look bad man...
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 7:10pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

its a pity what god can turn people into sad

You have absolutely no idea...
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 7:13pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi:

Thanks man!

Atheist wager is driving me crazy?...you wish!

Need I address the OP? I really do not want to make you look bad man...

make me look bad??

are you patronizing me?? sad

do what you have to do, your hour has come wink

I take it you are afraid of the OP and so resort to emotional threats tongue
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 7:14pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

make me look bad??

are you patronizing me?? sad

do what you have to do, your hour has come wink

I take it you are afraid of the OP and so resort to emotional threats tongue


I don't do emotions man...
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 7:17pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi:

You have absolutely no idea...

common man, i have an idea

Hysteria is one wink
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 7:18pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi:

I don't do emotions man...

so do what you have to do...
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 7:22pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

common man, i have an idea

Hysteria is one wink

Nah men...
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 7:23pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

so do what you have to do...

I am feeling 'jiggy' man...don't know if I will be able to come round to the OP but I will see what I can do...
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 7:27pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi:

I am feeling 'jiggy' man...don't know if I will be able to come round to the OP but I will see what I can do...

see, i know you are not yourself cheesy

my diagnosis is right

just relax man, you have all day

life will be boring without people who believe in myth to joke with cheesy
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 7:28pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi:

Nah men...

yep
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 7:31pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

see, i know you are not yourself cheesy

my diagnosis is right

just relax man, you have all day

life will be boring without people who believe in myth to joke with cheesy

Not myself?...Hmmmm
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 7:31pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

yep

Wanna dance?
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 7:35pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi:

Wanna dance?

gimme a song to dance to

note: i dont want the boring soppy gospel songs angry
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 7:43pm On May 02, 2013
ooman:

gimme a song to dance to

note: i dont want the boring soppy gospel songs angry

Lol!!!

Coming right up man...coming right up!
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 7:52pm On May 02, 2013
striktlymi:

Lol!!!

Coming right up man...coming right up!

waiting.....

Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by ooman(m): 8:27pm On May 02, 2013
^^^in case thats too complicated here is one for you kid tongue
Re: The Atheist's Wager vs The Religious Wager - Which Is Certain? by Nobody: 8:45pm On May 02, 2013
Now let's see what you have here...

ooman: Which is certain? The Atheist wager or the religious (Paschal's) wager?

Well guy, I am of the opinion that Paschal's wager cannot really be termed a 'religious wager' because his thoughts actually encompasses the religious and irreligious point of view (which includes the view point of some Atheists), though he tried to see it from the perspective of religion,...

ooman:
Lets see what logic thinks!

What logic thinks? This is going to be interesting surely...

ooman:
The Atheist/Nontheist/Agnostic view :- 1) There is no god because there is no single shred of evidence of it/him/her/whatever.

...c'mon now ooman, is that the dictate of logic? Logic tends towards the realm of science i.e. it deals with the principles and criteria of validity. Now will you say it would be valid to conclude that there is no God? This really will be a very wrong conclusion given the premise you have up there...

Your argument really is thus:

For something/someone etc to exist there must be some form of evidence...

There is no evidence for God...

Hence there is no God...


A critical review of the above argument would reveal the flaw inherent in it...for starters, the premise is false and when a conclusion is derived from a false premise, then that conclusion is necessarily false...lack of evidence does not prove that something or someone does not exist. Since this argument is not valid, it falls outside the realm of logic...

ooman:
2) Even if there is a god, one cant be certain of which is true because there are thousands of gods and all religions claim miracles/visions/revelations/spirit/holy book/whatever.

This still falls outside the realm of logic because the argument lacks validity...the fact that we have so many religions who have various views about God does not negate the fact that there exist one creator from whom everything came to be.

ooman:
The religious' view

C'mon now, do you honestly know the view of religious folks? Okay let's have a look...

ooman:
1) There is a god that came from nothing, immediately became supra-complex (much more complex than the whole universe) and conscious and made everything from nothing (even though they tell atheists "nothing comes from nothing". )

A simple question is: do you consider the individual who invented the automobile more complex than his invention? If your answer is 'yes' why then is this difficult to accept?

ooman:
2) Every religion has its own god and claims that god to be the only true, living god and its son/prophet/priest/whatever the only way to that god, eternal life and salvation.

I have seen a number of individuals who claim to know a friend and when I asked them to tell me a bit about this friend, they gave me different accounts of this friend...each account says a little about this friend but nothing encompassing...if this can happen to an individual who we can see and touch, how much more God?

ooman:
Well, if an entity called god exist, only one god can be true because all gods are jealous of each other, their lord in jealousy being yahweh, whose name is jealous (bible). There would therefore be constant war of the gods - but there is nothing like that - so only one ultimate god is true. But who is the one?

Only one God is true, we only have different perspectives of this one true God.

ooman:
Is there a certain way to be sure of this true god? No! Why? Because this god decided to be mute, leaving his proponents in darkness of "faith".

...and you would know this? A number of persons have experienced God...at least I know I have.

ooman:
Now

Since all religions claim to be right and since only one can be right. Who has therefore made a better choice? He who decide to abstain in the face of uncertainty - atheist - OR He who decide to choose randomly in the face of uncertainty - the religious and their different gods.

The probability of worshiping God when one decides to worship him is always one i.e P(G) = 1; the only ish would be how an individual decides to worship him...the ways are different but God is always worshiped irrespective of the ways...I might need to expound on this later.

ooman:
Here is the wager :

The religious wager -

If you decide to choose one of the many gods and that god happens to be the true god, then you have lost nothing but have gained in this life and also an after life. All theists say this to atheists!

THE PROBLEM WITH IT

What if the god chosen (yahweh, allah, zeus, ifa etc etc etc) is NOT the true god? Then the more you worship that god, the more you piss the true god off! For instance, if you are a christian and allah happens to be the true god, then the more you worship yahweh , the more you piss allah off and vice versa. Destruction is therefore certain for you. Your lake of fire will burn like the supernova of a star. You are doomed for all eternity even though you are religious. tongue

The above is not what I believe...I believe firmly that everyone has an equal opportunity of making heaven...all that is needed is sincerity...everyone need not be a Christian or Muslim etc before he or she makes heaven...even Atheists can make heaven given the right circumstances.

ooman:
The Atheist Wager

If you decide to abstain from choosing a god because there is no single shred of evidence of any true god, and when you die and finally face that true god, and he asks you - boy, why didn't you worship meeeeee and meeee only while you were alive?? angry the wise atheist will simply reply that "there were too many gods on earth, each one shouting to be true in his/her/its book and because that was confusing, I decided to abstain and decided to wait till I can see and be certain of the only true god before I offer worship to any god, so I dont make mistake and choose the wrong god, pissing you off". Then the true god will reply "My son, you are indeed wise, enter into my rest".

CONCLUSION

Eternity is much more certain for atheists than for theists.

ADVICE

My people, it is now certain that the only logical, confidently assured way to eternal life is atheism. Therefore choose wisely.
Half a word is spoken to a wise child, he deconstructs the full meaning!! - The Yorubas

Peace
Ooman.

Now this is not correct...yes an Atheist can make heaven if and only if that Atheist is sincere in his convictions and does right in line with the principles of right conscience...one does not make heaven simply because he is an Atheist, the Atheist must work to merit heaven...

Now, if an individual who was a Christian and in all sincerity he believes Christianity is the way to God but decides to become an Atheist because of the 'easy life' then from the onset, that individual is not sincere and does wrong by God...this individual can only make heaven by following the way God has carved out for him e.g Christianity.

(1) (2) (3) (Reply)

It Was The Talking Snake And Not The Devil / Controversy Trails Alleged Assault Of Church Member By Prophet GAIUS. Benin City / Open Heavens Daily Devotional 04/08/15

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2021 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 168
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.