Ihedinobi:

What then is the Law of Moses?

The law of Moses were laws given to an elected and separated people by God at a particular dispensation in the bible..

I agree to a large extend with shdemidemi's view on grace. Its only his opposing view on the power of God and how it will always deliver what it promises each time that I disagree with. And that's very strange, for someone who believes in infinite grace, that Christ did it all, not to believe that we have it all. Its strange. Its like Jesus said, this whole mansion is yours, but you can only enter this one room. Then the whole mansion isn't mine.

ayoku777: I agree to a large extend with shdemidemi's view on grace. Its only his opposing view on the power of God and how it will always deliver what it promises each time that I disagree with. And that's very strange, for someone who believes in infinite grace, that Christ did it all, not to believe that we have it all. Its strange. Its like Jesus said, this whole mansion is yours, but you can only enter this one room. Then the whole mansion isn't mine.

bro, I am in no way demeaning the power of God, all I am doing is following the scriptures to the letter and by the examples laid down by the Holy Spirit through apostle Paul to the church.

I believe why we disagree is because I put the word of the Holy Spirit to the church over anything that was said in the four gospels of Mathew, Mark , Luke and John.

ayoku777: I agree to a large extend with shdemidemi's view on grace. Its only his opposing view on the power of God and how it will always deliver what it promises each time that I disagree with. And that's very strange, for someone who believes in infinite grace, that Christ did it all, not to believe that we have it all. Its strange. Its like Jesus said, this whole mansion is yours, but you can only enter this one room. Then the whole mansion isn't mine.

this is very unfortunate my brother.

christemmbassey: this is very unfortunate my brother.

It really is brother. But I still like him though, and I believe God will, through that same infinite grace he believes, make him an eye witness to an unending flow of miracles, signs and wonders, either in his life or through the life of other Spirit-filled believer. So that he will know that the demonstration of the Spirit and power didn't end with the bible days, neither is it a once in a while thing even in our day.

It is always the will of Christ to heal and perform miracles, that's why he will always say 'thy faith has made thee whole', he didn't say 'my will has made thee whole'. His will to heal and prosper never changes or flunctuates, so its not a question of his will, but our faith and our ability to demonstrate power with it.

Eph 4:20 says 'Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, ACCORDING TO THE POWER THAT WORKETH IN US'. So there's nothing God cannot do or is not willing to do, but its not about his willingness, its about how much of the depth of the knowledge and understanding of Christ we can put to work in power. Its like this, God uses his activated power in us to answer our prayers. So you wana see greater divine intervention, put more power to work in your life, coz he does what we ask or think according to the power that worketh in us.

ayoku777:

It really is brother. But I still like him though, and I believe God will, through that same infinite grace he believes, make him an eye witness to an unending flow of miracles, signs and wonders, either in his life or through the life of other Spirit-filled believer. So that he will know that the demonstration of the Spirit and power didn't end with the bible days, neither is it a once in a while thing even in our day.

It is always the will of Christ to heal and perform miracles, that's why he will always say 'thy faith has made thee whole', he didn't say 'my will has made thee whole'. His will to heal and prosper never changes or flunctuates, so its not a question of his will, but our faith and our ability to demonstrate power with it.

Eph 4:20 says 'Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, ACCORDING TO THE POWER THAT WORKETH IN US'. So there's nothing God cannot do or is not willing to do, but its not about his willingness, its about how much of the depth of the knowledge and understanding of Christ we can put to work in power. Its like this, God uses his activated power in us to answer our prayers. So you wana see greater divine intervention, put more power to work in your life, coz he does what we ask or think according to the power that worketh in us.

Bro, I respect your opinion but I want you to understand Christ was limited when he was with us in flesh, He made us know he would send the holy spirit to teach us the things he can't. He picked up Saul, he made him Paul and gave him revelations that would stand forever.

Paul,s teachings were in three dimensions LOVE , FAITH , and HOPE. He taught love in the worse church in their days, people take the teachings in this church more seriously than they should. The man taught faith in Romans, most pastors and teachers don't really understand that book, I thank God Ayoku does. He went on to teach Hope in Thessalonica, most men of God don,t even go there at all. Please take your time to read Thessalonians and you would understand what it truly means to be a christian.

I believe christianity is being born of Christ through faith and growing up into him in all things through fellowship with his Spirit, it is the revelation of Christ in us, to us and through us by the Spirit. And I believe the holy Spirit uses the entire scriptures in revealing Christ to us in this ways, not just romans or thessalonians. To limit the holy spirit to specific portions of the scripture will make him unable to give you the whole and perfect picture of the revelation of Christ, which I partly believe is the reason behind your segmented conviction that Christ did it all but we can't have it all (yet)

ayoku777:

It really is brother. But I still like him though, and I believe God will, through that same infinite grace he believes, make him an eye witness to an unending flow of miracles, signs and wonders, either in his life or through the life of other Spirit-filled believer. So that he will know that the demonstration of the Spirit and power didn't end with the bible days, neither is it a once in a while thing even in our day.

It is always the will of Christ to heal and perform miracles, that's why he will always say 'thy faith has made thee whole', he didn't say 'my will has made thee whole'. His will to heal and prosper never changes or flunctuates, so its not a question of his will, but our faith and our ability to demonstrate power with it.

Eph 4:20 says 'Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, ACCORDING TO THE POWER THAT WORKETH IN US'. So there's nothing God cannot do or is not willing to do, but its not about his willingness, its about how much of the depth of the knowledge and understanding of Christ we can put to work in power. Its like this, God uses his activated power in us to answer our prayers. So you wana see greater divine intervention, put more power to work in your life, coz he does what we ask or think according to the power that worketh in us.

more grace to u my bros. The bible says in jm1 "who so looked at the perfect law of liberty an continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer but the doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deeds,. DONT U EVER B A FORGETFUL HEARER BRO, but lets b the doer of the work of FAITH. the problem with our bro demi is just bc he has never experienced healing or never been used by God to heal or he tried and failed, so the thing had ceased, thats very unfortunate. But i know he is sincere and trust Gnd, he knows how to handle sincere and honest ppl. God bless sir.

ayoku777: I believe christianity is being born of Christ through faith and growing up into him in all things through fellowship with his Spirit, it is the revelation of Christ in us, to us and through us by the Spirit. And I believe the holy Spirit uses the entire scriptures in revealing Christ to us in this ways, not just romans or thessalonians. To limit the holy spirit to specific portions of the scripture will make him unable to give you the whole and perfect picture of the revelation of Christ, which I partly believe is the reason behind your segmented conviction that Christ did it all but we can't have it all (yet)

The bible is not a story book, I hope you agree with me. At a point, Christ would not let his disciples preach to you and I. How we would want to claim what Christ said to a particular people with full awareness that he wasn't talking to us is beyond me. After he died he sent the same disciples to go preach to you and i about the power of his resurrection but they refused to. He then raised another man to teach us but what kills me is why we would go so far back to claim all these things that the message passed to us has not said. I believe we can read every part of the bible to know the nature and attributes of Christ and our God but our major attention should be on the guy sent specifically to us.

shdemidemi:

The law of Moses were laws given to an elected and separated people by God at a particular dispensation in the bible..

Some examples of these laws...?

@Ayoku and @DrummaBoy and @christemmbassy

Funny isn't it, how you find it easy to accommodate shdemidemi on this one point, perhaps because it is such a small point or perhaps because you first connected over your perspective on the Law?

There's a reason that I keep saying that Christ is big enough for all of us to be different and grow at different paces and be at different points of comprehension at the same time.

I think that you'll learn that in this issue with shdemidemi. There is only one true divide between Christian and unbeliever and it is Who the Lord Jesus is. Once we're agreed on Who He is, every other thing will sllowly, perhaps, but surely come together.

As we grow, we will come into a fuller and fuller picture of the Lord that we will be able to leave behind suppositions that we had based on the things we previously knew. That is how we come to the One New Man.

I pray the Lord that you will learn to discern the Body and come to know the things that belong to your peace.

Grace be with you.

Ihedinobi: @Ayoku and @DrummaBoy and @christemmbassy

Funny isn't it, how you find it easy to accommodate shdemidemi on this one point, perhaps because it is such a small point or perhaps because you first connected over your perspective on the Law?

There's a reason that I keep saying that Christ is big enough for all of us to be different and grow at different paces and be at different points of comprehension at the same time.

I think that you'll learn that in this issue with shdemidemi. There is only one true divide between Christian and unbeliever and it is Who the Lord Jesus is. Once we're agreed on Who He is, every other thing will sllowly, perhaps, but surely come together.

As we grow, we will come into a fuller and fuller picture of the Lord that we will be able to leave behind suppositions that we had based on the things we previously knew. That is how we come to the One New Man.

I pray the Lord that you will learn to discern the Body and come to know the things that belong to your peace.

Grace be with you.

wrong wrong wrong...what sort of talk is this na --

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.

Ihedinobi:

Some examples of these laws...?

Exodus 20 would be useful

shdemidemi:
wrong wrong wrong...what sort of talk is this na --

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.

Can you kindly explain what the "no other doctrines, fables and endless genealogies" Paul meant? I am actually confused as to why you always quote this scripture whenever a statement you don't agree with is made.

Bidam: Can you kindly explain what the "no other doctrines, fables and endless genealogies" Paul meant? I am actually confused as to why you always quote this scripture whenever a statement you don't agree with is made.

Paul told his son to stay in that church which is a predominantly gentile church, but they still had people preaching a gospel that accommodate judaism to the church. Paul told Timothy to avoid history of how it was done before and how they are descendants of David or Abraham or anyone for that matter. Paul told him to stick to the gospel he taught him , he(Paul) knew if any other doctrine is added, it won't be the gospel of Christ anymore.

shdemidemi:
Exodus 20 would be useful

You mean, like, "thou shalt not murder"; "thou shalt serve no other god"; "thou shalt not commit adultery" and others? These are the laws that passed away?

shdemidemi:
wrong wrong wrong...what sort of talk is this na --

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.

What is wrong? What "other doctrine" have I advocated?

Ihedinobi:

What is wrong? What "other doctrine" have I advocated?

Saying we can accommodate different doctrines like miracle,healing and other doctrines as part of the gospel is another doctrine on its own.

Ihedinobi:

You mean, like, "thou shalt not murder"; "thou shalt serve no other god"; "thou shalt not commit adultery" and others? These are the laws that passed away?

the law of Moses as a whole is no more for the man walking by the spirit of God.

shdemidemi:

Saying we can accommodate different doctrines like miracle,healing and other doctrines as part of the gospel is another doctrine on its own.

Hahahahhahahahaha.... Mehn, you too much. You're like snapping fish or an attack dog. Beyond what you think you know, is there any "doctrine" that is acceptable or can be tolerated?

Anyhow, I have not said that any doctrine may be accommodated. I have said that Christians should be accommodated within their differences. I have laid no laws, for instance, on anyone that they should tithe. I know that that is God's Will, but I can never be the eyes with which another believer sees the Lord. I can only be a finger that points on to Him for my brothers and sisters.

Now, if someone differs with me on tithing, I will teach him what I have been taught concerning it even if it seems to involve us in argument. When I have delivered what I have received my work is done. In time, the seed that has been sown and watered will spring forth and bear fruit. That is just the Way of Christ.

So I can afford to let other believers kick against tithing and throw tantrums. It's ok because it's all part of growing up. I went through it too and still do on myriad issues. But eventually, we will all agree because the Spirit is one and the Lord is one and the Father is one and the Baptism is one.

The only thing I do not compromise on is Who the Lord Jesus is. On that matter, I'm ever a merciless warrior. Even though I may rebuke and chastise on doctrinal issues, on this one, I go all out and I take absolutely no prisoners. So every doctrine that takes something away from Christ by making Him less than the Scriptures make Him is one on which I will not compromise. Every spirit or attitude which does not receive Jesus as God come in the flesh and every doctrine that goes contrary to that is one I do not tolerate.

Now, Bible professor, do you have a problem with all that?

shdemidemi:

the law of Moses as a whole is no more for the man walking by the spirit of God.

So we can murder and commit adultery and worship other gods now? That's what you described as the Law of Moses, isn't it?

shdemidemi:
wrong wrong wrong...what sort of talk is this na --

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.

what is the connection btwn this ur quot and that fact that the gift of healing is still working in the church today. @ihenobi, the fact that we agree on grace gospel with our bro demi doesnt mean we condone any error from his end, if u were expecting me to abuse him sorry u're disapointed, the bro is sincere in his eror and we have to undastand that appart from who our teacher is and the environment we found ourselves, we must also know that we are not all at the same level of growth. Demi?s problem is either he/his pastor tried and failed to recieve healing or heal some one else and therefor conclude healing had ceased which is actually due to their/his UNBELIEVE. God bless u sir.

Ihedinobi:

So we can murder and commit adultery and worship other gods now? That's what you described as the Law of Moses, isn't it?

of course not... but obeying the law of Moses is no longer enough.
1)Because it is not in man to achieve all of its command(man can only be a man at his best)
2)The best of the law cannot make man righteous before God
3)The law is earthly

On the other hand, the new covenant is spiritual, it transcends the requirements of the law. It comes into man through the power of the gospel of Christ. It is created as soon as we believe the gospel and it grows as we understand the true gospel. The spirit illuminate our minds and enlighten us and creates an undying hunger for God. The spirit changes our perception and our intuition, it renews our mind. Having this sort of mind does not require a law, doing what please God comes natural to us because the mind is an important factor in our lives because through them we make decisions. Having this MIND would enable US think like Him and have a different perspective or viewpoint towards this evil and dark world.

Ihedinobi:

So I can afford to let other believers kick against tithing and throw tantrums. It's ok because it's all part of growing up. I went through it too and still do on myriad issues. But eventually, we will all agree because the Spirit is one and the Lord is one and the Father is one and the Baptism is one.

The only thing I do not compromise on is Who the Lord Jesus is. On that matter, I'm ever a merciless warrior. Even though I may rebuke and chastise on doctrinal issues, on this one, I go all out and I take absolutely no prisoners. So every doctrine that takes something away from Christ by making Him less than the Scriptures make Him is one on which I will not compromise. Every spirit or attitude which does not receive Jesus as God come in the flesh and every doctrine that goes contrary to that is one I do not tolerate.

Now, Bible professor, do you have a problem with all that?

First it was teacher, now it is professor, thanks for all these your sarcastic gestures, i take it as a compliment. I understand your position but I don't agree based on scriptures. See what Paul said about other doctrines to Timothy, the man believes any other gospel that was not taught by him is not for the church therefore, it is of the devil.

4 The Spirit clearly says that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe. They will obey spirits that tell lies. And they will follow the teachings of demons. 2 Those teachings come through people who tell lies and trick others. These evil people cannot see what is right and what is wrong. It is like their conscience has been destroyed with a hot iron. 3 They say that it is wrong to marry. And they say that there are some foods that people must not eat. But God made these foods, and those who believe and who understand the truth can eat them with thanks.


11 Command and teach these things.
16 Be careful in your life and in your teaching. Continue to live and teach rightly. Then you will save yourself(from false doctrines) and those who listen to your teaching

starve
so you can have more spiritual
power.

@shdemidemi

I meant the bolded above. Where is it written?

christemmbassey: what is the connection btwn this ur quot and that fact that the gift of healing is still working in the church today. @ihenobi, the fact that we agree on grace gospel with our bro demi doesnt mean we condone any error from his end, if u were expecting me to abuse him sorry u're disapointed, the bro is sincere in his eror and we have to undastand that appart from who our teacher is and the environment we found ourselves, we must also know that we are not all at the same level of growth. Demi?s problem is either he/his pastor tried and failed to recieve healing or heal some one else and therefor conclude healing had ceased which is actually due to their/his UNBELIEVE. God bless u sir.

Lord God in Heaven! Did I at all suggest that you guys condone his error or that you should? Is it that difficult to read what someone other than you says and actually understand it?

Be careful about how you communicate, my brother. You may find yourself anwering for shooting at friendlies on that Day.

@Ihedinobi

Your post where you say U will take prisoners if anyone detracts from the person of Jesus are the same reason I disagree with U.

How does an individual that teaches that there are elements and principles in the law of Moses applicable today, not detract from Christ? Do you understand the persecution and hate Paul endured bc he taught that circumcision no longer applied to gentile Christians? He called it the offence of the cross. So how do you convince me that tithing differ from circumcision? In fact circumcision is given greater prominence than tithe in the OT and Paul discountenanced it, how much more the tithe?

That anyone encourages believers to tithe, or say a person will not be saved except they tithe or that some laws of Moses still apply to Christians today - that person is saying Jesus' cross is not sufficient and is detracting from Christ and must be resisted.

Your views are interesting but I can't agree on your position on the law.

Boomark: starve
so you can have more spiritual
power.

@shdemidemi

I meant the bolded above. Where is it written?

I believe you picked the bolded from my earlier post,well,the man didn't say every doctrine of the devil but he says anything he did not teach is a doctrine of the demons. People actually come up with such statement, don't they. But the power is not in starving but in the gospel of Christ.

Ihedinobi: @Ayoku and @DrummaBoy and @christemmbassy

Funny isn't it, how you find it easy to accommodate shdemidemi on this one point, perhaps because it is such a small point or perhaps because you first connected over your perspective on the Law?

There's a reason that I keep saying that Christ is big enough for all of us to be different and grow at different paces and be at different points of comprehension at the same time.

I think that you'll learn that in this issue with shdemidemi. There is only one true divide between Christian and unbeliever and it is Who the Lord Jesus is. Once we're agreed on Who He is, every other thing will sllowly, perhaps, but surely come together.

As we grow, we will come into a fuller and fuller picture of the Lord that we will be able to leave behind suppositions that we had based on the things we previously knew. That is how we come to the One New Man.

I pray the Lord that you will learn to discern the Body and come to know the things that belong to your peace.

Grace be with you.

pls can u explain this ur post, i hate to missudastand ppl. God bless.

shdemidemi:

of course not...

Well, if we may not do those things still, then they have not passed away and thus are not the law of Moses which has passed away.

but obeying the law of Moses is no longer enough.

On that we are both agreed, but it's obvious that you do not know what the Law of Moses is or what it is that has passed away.

1)Because it is not in man to achieve all of its command(man can only be a man at his best)
2)The best of the law cannot make man righteous before God
3)The law is earthly

On the other hand, the new covenant is spiritual, it transcends the requirements of the law. It comes into man through the power of the gospel of Christ. It is created as soon as we believe the gospel and it grows as we understand the true gospel. The spirit illuminate our minds and enlighten us and creates an undying hunger for God. The spirit changes our perception and our intuition, it renews our mind. Having this sort of mind does not require a law, doing what please God comes natural to us because the mind is an important factor in our lives because through them we make decisions. Having this MIND would enable US think like Him and have a different perspective or viewpoint towards this evil and dark world.

@bolded: that mind (heart, more correctly) is itself the Law.

shdemidemi:

First it was teacher, now it is professor, thanks for all these your sarcastic gestures, i take it as a compliment. I understand your position but I don't agree based on scriptures. See what Paul said about other doctrines to Timothy, the man believes any other gospel that was not taught by him is not for the church therefore, it is of the devil.

4 The Spirit clearly says that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe. They will obey spirits that tell lies. And they will follow the teachings of demons. 2 Those teachings come through people who tell lies and trick others. These evil people cannot see what is right and what is wrong. It is like their conscience has been destroyed with a hot iron. 3 They say that it is wrong to marry. And they say that there are some foods that people must not eat. But God made these foods, and those who believe and who understand the truth can eat them with thanks.


11 Command and teach these things.
16 Be careful in your life and in your teaching. Continue to live and teach rightly. Then you will save yourself(from false doctrines) and those who listen to your teaching

I'm not merely being sarcastic, shdemidemi, I'm mocking you.

Now, what do those Scriptures say that contradict what I said? And why do you have this penchant for qualifying the things that Scriptures say? Why do you add brackets? Are the Scriptures unclear without them?

Ihedinobi:
Well, if we may not do those things still, then they have not passed away and thus are not the law of Moses which has passed away

On that we are both agreed, but it's obvious that you do not know what the Law of Moses is or what it is that has passed away.

see, being under the law means you would carry out all of it like 'an eye for an eye' , stoning people to death and all. We say the law of Moses is not for a christian does not mean some contents within the law of moses can't be found when we become spiritual.