Origins

The history of the Fulani seems to begin with the Berber people of North Africa around the 8th or 11th century AD. As the Berbers migrated down from North Africa and mixed with the peoples in the Senegal region of West Africa the Fulani people came into existence. Over a thousand year period from AD 900 - 1900, they spread out over most of West Africa and even into some areas of Central Africa. Some groups of Fulani have been found as far as the western borders of Ethiopia. As they migrated eastward they came into contact with different African tribes. As they encountered these other peoples, they conquered the less powerful tribes. Along the way many Fulani completely or partially abandoned their traditional nomadic life in favor of a sedentary existence in towns or on farms among the conquered peoples. The nomadic Fulani continued eastward in search of the best grazing land for their cattle. Their lives revolved around and were dedicated to their herds. The more cattle a man owned, the more respect he was given. Today, some estimate as many as 18 million Fulani people stretch across the countries of West Africa. They remain to be the largest group of nomadic people in the world.

this is true for SOME of the Fulani (the wodaabe in particular). Definitely not all as most are native to west Africa and are e1b1a.

wodaabe

wodaabe and their tuareg brothers

(big ups to fulaman for this video)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NjX1ziHVX8

*Kails*:
some Fulani are mixed.
you have to remember they are not homogenous.

they are only unified in language, religion, and culture.

*Kails*:


this is true for SOME of the Fulani (the wodaabe in particular). Definitely not all as most are native to west Africa and are e1b1a.

wodaabe

The Wodaabe are/have clearly mixed with the Tuareg and Chadic Nilo Saharan people (not to be confused with Nilotics) They have found that some Wodaabe carry Y-DNA haplogroup R1b-V88 which is mainly found around Lake Chad. R1b-V88 is probably responsible for the spread of the Chadic branch of Afro-Asiatic languages!

Yes SOME Fulanis are mixed(mostly with other Africans). Their mtDNA and Y-DNA is PREDOMINANTLY African in origin. Now...I know mtDNA and Y-DNA does not tell admixture, but they DO tell us who the Fulani mixed with and it was barely Eurasians...

Their typical features are just due to dry heat adaptations.

when did I say they are not the product of African mixing?
that is my point. the wodaabe are a mix of west and east Africans sir.

I have ALWAYS said that and that is what somalia11 was saying.

the taureg and the wodaabe share direct ancestry...guess what..the tuareq are MOSTLY horner
African in ancestry. lol

that is my POINT.

Black Kenichi:

The Wodaabe are/have clearly mixed with the Tuareg and Chadic Nilo Saharan people (not to be confused with Nilotics) They have found that some Wodaabe carry Y-DNA haplogroup R1b-V88 which is mainly found around Lake Chad. R1b-V88 is probably responsible for the spread of the Chadic branch of Afro-Asiatic languages!

my point exactly.

that is what I was saying.

the white people who claim they are Eurasian in ancestry are DELUSIONAL. these people are
horner (Cushitic/Chadic) and west African mix.

*Kails*:
when did I say they are not the product of African mixing?
that is my point. the wodaabe are a mix of west and east Africans sir.

I have ALWAYS said that and that is what somalia11 was saying.

the taureg and the wodaabe share direct ancestry...guess what..the tuareq are MOSTLY horner
African in ancestry. lol

that is my POINT.

1. No...Somalia11 does equate North African/Berber with black/African. He doesn't even equate horners with African. He was NOT saying what you think he was saying.
2. No...Tuaregs DO NOT have horner ancestry. Where did you get this from? They have always been a Saharan people and never originated in East Africa. They share no links with horners other than the Afro-Asiatic language. Tuareg(among other Berbers) most likely originated in Southern Libya where the Berber marker E-M81 originated. E-M81 is predominant in Berbers and is not found in horners.

1. No...Somalia11 does equate North African/Berber with black/African. He doesn't even equate horners with African. He was NOT saying what you think he was saying.
2. No...Tuaregs DO NOT have horner ancestry. Where did you get this from? They have always been a Saharan people and never originated in East Africa. They share no links with horners other than the Afro-Asiatic language. Tuareg(among other Berbers) most likely originated in Southern Libya where the Berber marker E-M81 originated. E-M81 is predominant in Berbers and is not found in horners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg_people#Genetics

E1b1b1b (E-M81), the major haplogroup in Tuaregs, is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in North Africa, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in North Africa 5,600 years ago. The parent clade E1b1b originated in East Africa.[43][44] Colloquially referred to as the Berber marker for its prevalence among Mozabite, Middle Atlas, Kabyle people and other Berber groups, E-M81 is also predominant among other North African groups. It reaches frequencies of up to 100 percent in some parts of the Maghreb.

The other major haplogroup is E1b1a mainly found in sub-saharan Africa.

Overall, a cline appears, with Algerian Tuaregs being closer to other Berbers and Arabs, and those from southern Mali being more similar to subsaharan West Africans. [Ottoni et al.] (2011)

[img]http://64.40.115.138/file/lu/6/52235/NTIyMzV9K3szNTcxNDE=.jpg[/img]

I think I know what I am talking about.
thank you.

*Kails*:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg_people#Genetics

Your own source debunked your argument...

E1b1b1b (E-M81), the major haplogroup in Tuaregs, is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in North Africa, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in North Africa 5,600 years ago. The parent clade E1b1b originated in East Africa.[43][44] Colloquially referred to as the Berber marker for its prevalence among Mozabite, Middle Atlas, Kabyle people and other Berber groups, E-M81 is also predominant among other North African groups. It reaches frequencies of up to 100 percent in some parts of the Maghreb.

The other major haplogroup is E1b1a mainly found in sub-saharan Africa.

Overall, a cline appears, with Algerian Tuaregs being closer to other Berbers and Arabs, and those from southern Mali being more similar to subsaharan West Africans. [Ottoni et al.] (2011)

The parent clade of E-M81 is actually E-V257 and the parent clade of that clade is E-M35. Modern horners DO NOT carry that clade! Its an old clade and its rare in East Africa as a whole. Modern horners carry a sub clade of E-V12 which is E-V32. The Sub clade of E-V12 is E-M78 which is RARE in the horn!
[img]http://3.bp..com/-RFDBC3MrhRc/TwSONGTqaEI/AAAAAAAAAKA/tx02k-dvLNs/s1600/E_Snp_Phylogeography.jpg[/img]

Horners E-V32 most likely came from Egypt, while E-M81 AROSE in Libya. Again horners DO NOT carry E-M81 clades. Just because both have clades under E doesn't mean they have close links. E-V13 is a clade of the E haplogroup and it is not even found in Africa but Southeast Europe. Tuaregs DO NOT have modern horn ancestry...

how in the hell did my own source debunk my own argument when it clearly states that without E1B1B which IS HORNER...there would be no Tauregs?

saying that there is no horner ancestry in modern day tuaregs is like saying Cubans TODAY have no central African ancestry lol. which Is RETARDED.

not only is the cultural evidence BLATANT and the features but their DNA tells the entire story!!
sir they are E1B1B1B <<<< LITERALLY THE CHILD OF E1B1B

are you seriously NOT comprehending the facts? gtfo here.

Cruciani et al. (2007) suggest that this sub-clade of E-V12 originated in North Africa, and then subsequently expanded further south into the Horn of Africa, where it is now prevalent.[Note 3] Before the discovery of V32, Cruciani et al. (2004) referred to the same lineages as the "gamma cluster", which was estimated to have arisen about 8,500 years ago. They stated that "the highest frequencies in the three Cushitic-speaking groups: the Borana from Kenya (71.4%), the Oromo from Ethiopia (32.0%), and the Somali (52.2%). Outside of eastern Africa, it was found only in two subjects from Egypt (3.6%) and in one Arab from Morocco". Sanchez et al. (2005) found it extremely prominent in Somali men and stated that "the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population – closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya (Boranas)" and that their gamma cluster lineages "probably were introduced into the Somali population 4000–5000 years ago". More recently, Tillmar et al. (2009) typed 147 males from Somalia for 12 Y-STR loci, and observed that 77% (113/147) had typical E-V32 haplotypes. This is currently the highest frequency of E-V32 found in any single sample population. Similarly, Hassan et al. (2008) in their study observed this to be the most common of the sub-clades of E-M78 found in Sudan, especially among the Beja, Masalit and Fur. The Beja, like Somalis and Oromos, speak an Afro-Asiatic language and live along the "corridor" from the Horn of Africa to Egypt. Hassan et al. (2008) interpret this as reinforcing the "strong correlation between linguistic and genetic diversity" and signs of relatedness between the Beja and the peoples of the Horn of Africa such as the Amhara and Oromo. On the other hand, the Masalit and Fur live in Darfur and speak a Nilo-Saharan language. The authors observed in their study that "the Masalit possesses by far the highest frequency of the E-M78 and of the E-V32 haplogroup", which they believe suggests "either a recent bottleneck in the population or a proximity to the origin of the haplogroup." However, M[b]ore recently, Tillmar et al. (2009) typed 147 males from Somalia for 12 Y-STR loci, and observed that 77% (113/147) had typical E-V32 haplotypes. This is the highest frequency of E-V32 found in any single sample population.[/b]
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68#E-V32

The distribution of V-32 in Africa


Again...Tuaregs DO NOT carry this clade, but North African. Tuaregs most likely have more West African genes than horner due to mixing with certain West African populations, especially in Mali.

you spent all this time trying to prove horners are African yet you are today (out of desperation to prove their looks are native to west Africa) are denying their role in African diversity by claiming their children the tuaregs are an entirely different group...WOW. -_-

my FACTS are much more plausible sir.

there were two GREAT migrations to west Africa.

the first one being E1B1A (present day sub-Saharan west African) and the second being E1B1B (east Africans). of course some tuaregs are mixed with outsiders like Mediterraneans and others due location, trade, islam and slavery but their main ancestry is found in east Africa.

^^% of direct shared ancestry with Somalis.

so now you are trying to tell me the tuaregs are mostly e1b1a?

-_- WOW!

you are looney tunes.

Just landed,wow! Nice thread, they all look good except a group of people,those one from the horn of africa actually

Op pls why do they look so thin like a skeleton?

*Kails*:
you spent all this time trying to prove horners are African yet you are today (out of desperation to prove their looks are native to west Africa) are denying their role in African diversity by claiming their children the tuaregs are an entirely different group...WOW. -_-

my FACTS are much more plausible sir.

there were two GREAT migrations to west Africa.

the first one being E1B1A (present day sub-Saharan west African) and the second being E1B1B (east Africans). of course some tuaregs are mixed with outsiders like Mediterraneans and others due location, trade, islam and slavery but their main ancestry is found in east Africa.

so horners ain't africans?? What's this one saying

anybody can be an african,daaaah!

Adamskuty: so horners ain't africans?? What's this one saying

anybody can be an african,daaaah!

please stay out of this.
you clearly don't understand what we are talking about.

*Kails*:
how in the hell did my own source debunk my own argument when it clearly states that without E1B1B which IS HORNER...there would be no Tauregs?

No...The problem with your argument is that you think E1b1b is an horner clade as a whole...NO! E1b1b is just a LARGE sub clade of E-P2 with branches of smaller clades. Did you not read my map or what I posted Modern Horners DO NOT REPEAT DO NOT carry the parent clade of E-81 which is E-V257. They don't even carry E-M78 which is the parent clade of E-V12 and that is the parent clade of their E-V32. Do you get what I'm saying? Tuaregs carry NON of those clades. The Africans that carried those old E sub clades were DIFFERENT from modern day horners, thats something that you're not understanding. Again E1b1b is NOT a horner clade but a clade that arose in East Africa and then spread.

Again look at this map.
[img]http://3.bp..com/-RFDBC3MrhRc/TwSONGTqaEI/AAAAAAAAAKA/tx02k-dvLNs/s1600/E_Snp_Phylogeography.jpg[/img]

*Kails*:

saying that there is no horner ancestry in modern day tuaregs is like saying Cubans TODAY have no central African ancestry lol. which Is RETARDED.

not only is the cultural evidence BLATANT and the features but their DNA tells the entire story!!
sir they are E1B1B1B <<<< LITERALLY THE CHILD OF E1B1B

are you seriously NOT comprehending the facts? gtfo here.

1. What Again horners DO NOT carry E-81. Get over it, I already showed you that they're mutations/distances with the map posted above. Tuaregs are Northwest African, while Horners are Northeast. The only thing they share is the Afro-Asiatic language. Your Cuban vs African argument is also void, because Cubans are of RECENT African stock, while with Tuaregs and Horners their are genetic DISTANCES. The only thing your suggestion is that both Tuaregs and horners share a distant common ancestors. Which was most likely those E-35 carriers.

2. No...Tuareg culture is more similar to neighboring Berber culture. I don't get where you think Tuareg and horner culture are similar. Heck Horner culture is more similar to Southwest Asian. Again Tuaregs are Northwest African stock while horner sra Northeast African. The only thing you suggest is that they share a distant common ancestor.

LOL! poor you.

and I do mean poor. this is just sad.
I mean really sad.

*Kails*:


please stay out of this.
you clearly don't understand what we are talking about.

i'm not interested in any shiiat y'all are talking about. I only got one question, who's an african?


Not a difficult question i bet

OMG Kails...I thought you were smarter than this...

For the love of god almighty...I said this million of times. Just because both Tuaregs and horners carry Sub clades of E1b1b DOES NOT mean they are closely related! Do you not understand mutations and stuff happens I seriously do not think I can explain this anymore. I already told you the parent clade of E-M81 is E-V257 which horners DO NOT CARRY! The ancestors of horner clades is E-M78 which originated in Egypt. And not even Horners really carry that clade since it is RARE in the horn. Let me post this map again...

[img]http://3.bp..com/-RFDBC3MrhRc/TwSONGTqaEI/AAAAAAAAAKA/tx02k-dvLNs/s1600/E_Snp_Phylogeography.jpg[/img]

^^^^Do you not see the distance between E-V257 and E-M78 All you're keep doing is mentioning E1b1b, but NOT STATING ANY SPECIFIC CLADES. If you're going to claim Horners are the ancestors to Tuaregs then you're gonna have to find a horner parent clade for E-M81 that horners ACTUALLY CARRY!

Just because horners carry E1b1b does NOT mean their the origin of that clade and just because a certain clade arose in East Africa, does not mean modern day horners carried that clade. Actually the Khwe people carry underived ancestral E1b1b! Older than those found in the horn...The only thing you can suggest is that horners and Tuaregs share a common ancestry.

what's tuareg btw? I don't know why u people keep on associating with the laughing stock of the world.

Let's talk about the chinese?

Kails...All I am trying to do is correct your claim. Yes horners and Tuaregs share a close common ancestor(E-M35), but horners in no shape and form are the ancestors of Tuareg people. There is no evidence for that...All I'm doing is just trying to correct that claim.

where is the origin of E-m35 again?
just out of curiosity

KidStranglehold: Kails...All I am trying to do is correct your claim. Yes horners and Tuaregs share a close common ancestor(E-M35), but horners in no shape and form are the ancestors of Tuareg people. There is no evidence for that...All I'm doing is just trying to correct that claim.

lol

Um...Kails. Just because E-M35 arose in East Africa(ethiopia most likely) does not mean it was carried by people who are like modern day horners. E-35 arose around 22,400 and I doubt modern day horners existed that long. Again E-M78 is the parent for almost all Northeast African clades and is mostly found in Northeast Africa.


It is not the parent clade of E-M81 which Tuaregs and other Berbers carry and is not even found in Northwest Africa.

KidStranglehold:
No...Tuaregs...They share no links with horners other than the Afro-Asiatic language.

[img]http://ancientsomali.files./2012/01/e1b1broute.png[/img]

somali origins E-M35


The modern population of E-M215 and E-M35 lineages are almost identical, and therefore by definition age estimates based on these two populations are also identical. E1b1b (E-M215) and its dominant sub-clade E1b1b1 (E-M35) are believed to have first appeared in East Africa about 22,400 years ago. All major sub-branches of E1b1b1 are thought to have originated in the same general area as the parent clade: in North Africa, East Africa, or nearby areas of the Near East. Some branches of E1b1b1 left Africa many thousands of years ago. For example Battaglia et al. (2007) estimated that E-M78 (“E1b1b1a1″ in that paper) has been alone in Europe longer than 10,000 years. And more recently, human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dating from approximately 7000 years ago were shown to be in this haplogroup

interesting.

this is also interesting...

E-M81

E-M81 is a Y chromosome haplogroup defined by the mutation M81. It is a sub-clade of E-M35. It's phylogenetic name according to the E haplogroup page on ISOGG's website is E1b1b1b.

I may be misunderstanding something...

cuz from what I am seeing there is a DIRECT relationship between these two groups lol.

oh well not my headache....

so maybe the genes did not begin IN the horn...but present day sudan/southern Egypt (which further proves east Africans were the original Egyptians and also validate the claims of the nilotes)

but when it comes to relationship and ancestry the tuaregs and horners are joined at the hip.

anyway like I said....the wodaabe are a mix between the tuaregs and nilo-sharan speakers.

*Kails*:
so maybe the genes did not begin IN the horn...but present day sudan/southern Egypt (which further proves east Africans were the original Egyptians and also validate the claims of the nilotes)

but when it comes to relationship and ancestry the tuaregs and horners are joined at the hip.

anyway like I said....the wodaabe are a mix between the tuaregs and nilo-sharan speakers.

so who's an african?

Adamskuty: so who's an african?

people born in Africa or have direct parentage in Africa...regardless of race.

kails why are somalis on that map much more darker than ethiopians. Are somalis more pure? Is it cause some ethios speak semetic language? Is it because the somali race has outfukked ethios?

[img]http://ancientsomali.files./2012/01/e1b1broute.png[/img]

This map says the same thing as the map I posted in this thread.
http://3.bp..com/-RFDBC3MrhRc/TwSONGTqaEI/AAAAAAAAAKA/tx02k-dvLNs/s1600/E_Snp_Phylogeography.jpg

You posted this source out of context.

The modern population of E-M215 and E-M35 lineages are almost identical, and therefore by definition age estimates based on these two populations are also identical. E1b1b (E-M215) and its dominant sub-clade E1b1b1 (E-M35) are believed to have first appeared in East Africa about 22,400 years ago. All major sub-branches of E1b1b1 are thought to have originated in the same general area as the parent clade: in North Africa, East Africa, or nearby areas of the Near East. Some branches of E1b1b1 left Africa many thousands of years ago. For example Battaglia et al. (2007) estimated that E-M78 (“E1b1b1a1″ in that paper) has been alone in Europe longer than 10,000 years. And more recently, human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dating from approximately 7000 years ago were shown to be in this haplogroup

^^^It doesn't state E-M35 is of Somali origins but that it arose in East Africa. The carriers of this clade were not the same as modern day horners such as Somalis, but were most likely of Khoisan/Pygmy stock.

And yes this most definitely proves the Ancient Egyptians were African. All I am just saying is that modern day horners like Somalis and Ethiopians are not the ancestors if Tuaregs. I do agree that both horners and Tuareg people share a closer common ancestor than west Africans.