handsomebolanle:
you havent answered the question...
Didnt you read the part that beast and FALSE prophets will be tormented DAY and NIGHT forever and EVER...
You speak about the unconditional love of God not to qualify man to be doomed for the cause of their choice... But the scriptures i have laid before you life and death... Choose life and.... Well thats what i choose
human being that definetly choose death will surely be tormented to as they as they are the trees which bears no fruit and will be cut down and thrown into **** where there will be gnashing of teeth... Bro the disobedient human will not be spared

And grave will also be torment as though it is a person, did you not also read that too ?

Please someone should please reconcile this scriptures, acts 2:25-27 (king James version) : David speaketh concerning him (jesus)... Because though wilt not leave my soul in HELL, neither wilt though suffer thine holy one to see corruption.
And another scripture is :
Rev 20:13,14 (king James version) : the Sea gave up the dead which were in it;and death and HELL delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to his works. And death and HELL were cast into the lake of fire.
Please reconcile this scriptures with the topic of this thread in mind.

frosbel:

SATAN was actually very happy when I was promoting his gospel of fear.

True ^.

Satan was also happy that you painted Ýahweh as a wicked God.

olumyde: I don't claim to know all but frosbel and co will need to explain this verse of scripture. Revelation 20:10 - "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. THEY WILL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER". Pls don't answer with questions like, is there day and night in the other world (frosbel used dt to boycott d question sometime in d thread). Explain this verse to show there's no eternal punishment. Thanks

Fire being a symbol of a complete eternal destruction, it is fitting to emphersise what the fire does as being forever and ever.

Those things will be gone for ever and ever.

What torment can grave and abstract death face ?

Can a spirit being without a material body be tormented ? and by a literal fire ? No.

When you humble yourselves you'll learn deep things of God. God is love. Hell is just a fabricated story in christaindom and not a Bible teaching. It has a pagan origin. In christaindom you'll see the paganism in Christianity.
Nobody Don reconcile those scriptures wen I post above o.

The teaching of hell fire when examined in the light of the Scriptures have no stand and no place. And there are so many teachings too that mislead people. Just be open minded and learn the truth found in God's word the Bible.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23).

that ^ is the truth taught in the bible, that the wages of sin is death.

But hell fire teaching has changed it to mean that the wages of sin is eternal life with torment, but this is simply supporting the lie that satan told Eve in eden, that she "positively will not die na !

Now, Yahweh is the wicked one that will torment mankind forever and ever abi !

What a deceit !

Meanwhile, see what God told Adam the cause of the problem:

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of dust was thou taken, for dust thou art, and unto dust shall thou return." (Genesis 3:19).

That ^ is what God told Adam the number one offender that lived for 930yrs.

So, eternal torment is from who ?

God or satan ?

You be the judge.

Speaking the pure language.

Nascimento: When you humble yourselves you'll learn deep things of God. God is love. Hell is just a fabricated story in christaindom and not a Bible teaching. It has a pagan origin. In christaindom you'll see the paganism in Christianity.
Nobody Don reconcile those scriptures wen I post above o.

The word hell is a latin word and has a latin meaning to the latin people that worship satan.

The Jews that wrote the bible did not use that word.

That word found its way into the bible when the bible was translated from greek to latin.

The words that the Jews used was sheol, fire and Gehenna.

The greek used hedes for grave.

Hell and it meaning is a confusion by satan himself.

truthislight:

^

but your so call men of God had changed their stand from TV is a sin to TV is not a sin and many more and many others.

You will not worry about those ^ it is frobel change that you hypocrite will see.

Rubbish!

U have come again with ur skewed reasoning. Have u seen the word TV in the bible before? I have been watching TV since i was a kid, so reason well.

The topic at hand has norring to do with TV but a sensitive subject Jesus tot over and over again. There is no prophet or teacher that mentioned hell fire as much as Jesus. If u agree with me that Jesus created all things den u wont argue\twist wat Jesus taught extensively on with illustations (the richman and lazarus). Jesus said the richman asked Lazarus to be raised back to life (cos he had died on the earthly realm) so that he can warn his five brothers in the world (still alive) to change\amend their ways so that they wont suffer wat hes seriosly passing thru after ge had died.

It is either u accept wat christ taught or u dnt. The explanation to this verse is simple enof for a primary sch pupil to understand let alone a mature student. If ur organization teach otherwise thats their problem.

Before Frosbel went reprobate he believe all wat Jesus taught. Even if he changes\rebels against the word of christ dat wont change the foundation of the word of God.

frosbel:

Your answers is in Revelation 20:14

because there is no truth explanation to defend your doctrine

[quote author=truthislight]

The word hell is a latin word and has a latin meaning to the latin people that worship satan.

The Jews that wrote the bible did not use that word.

That word found its way into the bible when the bible was translated from greek to latin.

The words that the Jews used was sheol, fire and Gehenna.

yes you're right. If rev 2o:13,14 says death and hell give up those dead in them, then those in hell who are receiving God's punishment are going to come back again to be judge, now that doesn't make sense at all.
B

Nascimento:

been tormented day and night means their destruction will be a thing that will echo through times everlasting. Do you remember sodom and gomorrah? The Bible said, the fire kept burning forever. As for torment, my brother try read eccl 9:5,6-10.

First of all, the bible did not say d fire kept burning forever and ever as u said, the passage said they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. According to you explanation, sodom and gomorah are being tormented day and night forever and ever. Ur explanation is not correct. How can torment day and night forever and ever become "their destruction will be a thing that will echo for time everlasting". If dt's what you turn dt clear passage to, i give up on you. According to you torment = destruction in that passage.

frosbel:

V.14 is the end of events which started from v.10, the culmination of all punishment is the second death which means death in the proper definition of the word, cessation of existence, death means nothing else from a literal perspective.

I wonder how you manage to conclude dt a verse talking about death and Hades is the conclusion to the verse talking about d devil, d beast and d false prophet. Let's go to our main verse, it clearly shows dt verse ends itself. U can read, THEY WILL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER (Amen) - full stop.

true2god: U have come again with ur skewed reasoning. Have u seen the word TV in the bible before? I have been watching TV since i was a kid, so reason well.

The topic at hand has norring to do with TV but a sensitive subject Jesus tot over and over again. There is no prophet or teacher that mentioned hell fire as much as Jesus. If u agree with me that Jesus created all things den u wont argue\twist wat Jesus taught extensively on with illustations (the richman and lazarus). Jesus said the richman asked Lazarus to be raised back to life (cos he had died on the earthly realm) so that he can warn his five brothers in the world (still alive) to change\amend their ways so that they wont suffer wat hes seriosly passing thru after ge had died.

It is either u accept wat christ taught or u dnt. The explanation to this verse is simple enof for a primary sch pupil to understand let alone a mature student. If ur organization teach otherwise thats their problem.

Before Frosbel went reprobate he believe all wat Jesus taught. Even if he changes\rebels against the word of christ dat wont change the foundation of the word of God.

i pity those ppl who will be gullible enough to believe the lies posted by frosbel!
I pity those ppl who will not take time and study d Bible for themselves with d help of d Spirit of God.
Saying that there is no hell is like saying that the words of Jesus are false.
How can you embrace d love of God and neglect His wrath?
Some ppl will actually be shocked when they actually found out dt hell exists-I pray it will not be too late by then!

truthislight:

Fire being a symbol of a complete eternal destruction, it is fitting to emphersise what the fire does as being forever and ever.

Those things will be gone for ever and ever.

What torment can grave and abstract death face ?

Can a spirit being without a material body be tormented ? and by a literal fire ? No.

All you wrote are assumptions and i'm not obliged to answer your questions, cos we are not debating logic. We are looking at a verse and interpreting it. It says "d devil...was THROWN INTO the lake of burning sulphur". How can this be more clearer? and also that "they will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER" not that "what the fire will do is like forever and ever". Its THEY WILL BE TORMENTED FOR DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER. Its a simple sentence

Mintayo:

i pity those ppl who will be gullible enough to believe the lies posted by frosbel!
I pity those ppl who will not take time and study d Bible for themselves with d help of d Spirit of God.
Saying that there is no hell is like saying that the words of Jesus are false.
How can you embrace d love of God and neglect His wrath?
Some ppl will actually be shocked when they actually found out dt hell exists-I pray it will not be too late by then!

I understand how emotional church people get about this false doctrine, especially since you have preached it, taught it and believed it for eons.

It's all to do with the mindset, you have been programmed by the institutions of men to accept that God is going to burn sinners forever starting after death , even before the resurrection and judgement, which by the way flies in the face of all logic, because punishment comes after judgement not before.

Let us be objective for a minute, suppose this HELL of yours is false and because of it , millions rejected your gospel and ended up destroyed forever, are you willing to stick with what men tell you instead of revisiting this teaching and performing an independent unbiased study?

Remember, I was once like you, fighting tooth and nail for my idol churches and their false doctrines, until lately when I realised that every man will give account to GOD for himself only and my pastor will not stand for me on the last day. Therefore it is imperative that we make sure we are preaching and teaching the truth.

truthislight: "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23).
that ^ is the truth taught in the bible, that the wages of sin is death.
But hell fire teaching has changed it to mean that the wages of sin is eternal life with torment, but this is simply supporting the lie that satan told Eve in eden, that she "positively will not die na !
Now, Yahweh is the wicked one that will torment mankind forever and ever abi !
What a deceit !
Meanwhile, see what God told Adam the cause of the problem:
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of dust was thou taken, for dust thou art, and unto dust shall thou return." (Genesis 3:19).
That ^ is what God told Adam the number one offender that lived for 930yrs.
So, eternal torment is from who ?
God or satan ?
You be the judge.

You better read d Bible and ask for the Holy Spirit's(if u believ in Him),u v been decieved so well-that Genesis u quote is talking abt abraham's body(corruptible body),not an incorruptible(1 cor 15:42-44) which we will have at d resurection-everybody will die and b buried and become dust= dis is talkin abt our body!
Psalm 9:17=The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

I pray that the Lord will deliver you!

olumyde: All you wrote are assumptions and i'm not obliged to answer your questions, cos we are not debating logic. We are looking at a verse and interpreting it. It says "d devil...was THROWN INTO the lake of burning sulphur". How can this be more clearer? and also that "they will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER" not that "what the fire will do is like forever and ever". Its THEY WILL BE TORMENTED FOR DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER. Its a simple sentence

You are simply rehashing the standard line of the institutionalised church.

Forever and ever depicts a time until that person or angel has been totally consumed, it does not at all mean forever and ever for 5 reasons :

1. The wicked will not inherit eternal life or immortality and therefore cannot live forever.
2. The designation of night and day cannot be used to support this doctrine because night will cease to exist, only day will be present.
3. Death itself according to Rev 20:14 , 1 Corinthians 15:26 and Isaiah 25:8. will be destroyed. If death is destroyed and if God has said emphatically that there will be no more death in Revelation 21:4, how can death and sinners still be in the process of death , a condition which should have ceased ?
4. In the scripture where Jesus said their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched, if we go to the location where Jesus quoted this from , it reads :

"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." - Isaiah 66:24

This is clearly referring to dead people, not conscious souls .

5. God is a consuming fire , not a non-consuming fire, this means that the wicked will melt away , be destroyed and be turned to ashes, in other words consumed.

"But the wicked will perish: Though the LORD's enemies are like the flowers of the field, they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke." - Psalm 37:20

" But all sinners will be destroyed; there will be no future for the wicked." - Psalm 37:38

The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish - Psalm 112:10




I think it is important that we read scripture with an objective mindset, if we read it with a programmed mindset based on dogmas and tradition, we will forever remain in error, teach error and be a part of the great falling away that was prophesied by Paul.


Thanks and Good Night.

frosbel:
I understand how emotional church people get about this false doctrine, especially since you have preached it, taught it and believed it for eons.
It's all to do with the mindset, you have been programmed by the institutions of men to accept that God is going to burn sinners forever starting after death , even before the resurrection and judgement, which by the way flies in the face of all logic, because punishment comes after judgement not before.
Let us be objective for a minute, suppose this HELL of yours is false and because of it , millions rejected your gospel and ended up destroyed forever, are you willing to stick with what men tell you instead of revisiting this teaching and performing an independent unbiased study?
Remember, I was once like you, fighting tooth and nail for my idol churches and their false doctrines, until lately when I realised that every man will give account to GOD for himself only and my pastor will not stand for me on the last day. Therefore it is imperative that we make sure we are preaching and teaching the truth.

i don't knw what you are saying but let me tell you dis,you may continue in ur heresy,that is ur problem!
And i am not being emotional at all,and d doctrine of hell is nt any instistutional doctrine of men,- it is found in d Bible,so get ur fact right!
There are 162 texts in the NT alone that speaks of the doom that awaits unrepentant sinners=(HELL). Jesus Christ Himself uttered 70 of these.
Just pity anyone that is believing the hersy u put up here!

Mintayo:

i don't knw what you are saying but let me tell you dis,you may continue in ur heresy,that is ur problem!
And i am not being emotional at all,and d doctrine of hell is nt any instistutional doctrine of men,- it is found in d Bible,so get ur fact right!
There are 162 texts in the NT alone that speaks of the doom that awaits unrepentant sinners=(HELL). Jesus Christ Himself uttered 70 of these.
Just pity anyone that is believing the hersy u put up here!

162 texts that speak about HELL indeed, but only ONE of them relates to fire and this is the lake of fire that destroys the wicked.

The rest depict Sheol, Hades etc.

Pal, I love you, read your bible again, Google is free, do your research.

Peace .

Frosbel and co claim that "there is no torment for ever and ever", Rev 20:10 says "they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever". The two opinion contradicts each other, so they have to give it another meaning, instead of telling me direct. I understand them. Frosbel brought up vs14, what he should have done is this, vs 10 said "they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever", vs 14 says "this is the second death. From dt, i can infer dt, the second death = torment day and night for ever and ever. The question now comes, how can this be? It can only be, if the second death is not death like physical death but means "seperation from God". And this is not a strange biblical concept, even frosbel will agree. You may disagree with my explanation. Thats fine with me. But one thing is sure Rev 20:10 does not agree wt the opinion of frosbel and co. I have had to change some of my beliefs in time past, but when i see a clear scripture, i accept, even if i don't really understand it. Thank you

olumyde: Frosbel and co claim that "there is no torment for ever and ever", Rev 20:10 says "they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever". The two opinion contradicts each other, so they have to give it another meaning, instead of telling me direct. I understand them. Frosbel brought up vs14, what he should have done is this, vs 10 said "they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever", vs 14 says "this is the second death. From dt, i can infer dt, the second death = torment day and night for ever and ever. The question now comes, how can this be? It can only be, if the second death is not death like physical death but means "seperation from God". And this is not a strange biblical concept, even frosbel will agree. You may disagree with my explanation. Thats fine with me. But one thing is sure Rev 20:10 does not agree wt the opinion of frosbel and co. I have had to change some of my beliefs in time past, but when i see a clear scripture, i accept, even if i don't really understand it. Thank you

Did you read my explanation or you just shut your eyes and walked past ?

Anyway, I cannot convince your heart , only GOD can, I personally held to this false doctrine of demons for almost all my life till I started to study for myself, asking God for wisdom and undergoing intensive research.

Let me repeat , forever and ever in this context means until mission is accomplished , Rev 20.14 which comes after v10 concludes this matter and calls it the second death. I wonder what death means in your dictionary.

Revelation is covered from start to finish with metaphors, if we start taking all of them literally , we might end up getting locked up for insanity

Luke 16:19-31 is another vivid description, but they say its a parable, even though Jesus didn't give any other meaning to the passage, i'm still waiting for someone that will come and give us HIS OWN meaning. I will conclude with this. According to Mark 9:42-48, there is a terrible place/condition awaiting sinners, whatever name you call it, either you believe its immediately after death or later. This place/condition is so terrible, no matter how we try to water it down, dt Jesus said its better to cut our hands and pluck out our eyes than for us to be thrown into it. Meaning d pain we'll feel by cutting off our hands or plucking out our eyes, can not be compared to if we are thrown into that place/condition. THERE IS A TERRIBLE PLACE OR CONDITION AWAITING UNREPENTANT SINNERS. Thats what Jesus was trying to tell them, which good christians continue to tell the world, that there is a place/condition we desperately need to avoid. If anybody disagrees with this, they should take it up with Jesus.

Luke 16:19-31 is another vivid description, but they say its a parable, even though Jesus didn't give any other meaning to the passage, i'm still waiting for someone that will come and give us HIS OWN meaning. I will conclude with this. According to Mark 9:42-48, there is a terrible place/condition awaiting sinners, whatever name you call it, either you believe its immediately after death or later. This place/condition is so terrible, no matter how we try to water it down, dt Jesus said its better to cut our hands and pluck out our eyes than for us to be thrown into it. Meaning d pain we'll feel by cutting off our hands or plucking out our eyes, can not be compared to if we are thrown into that place/condition. THERE IS A TERRIBLE PLACE OR CONDITION AWAITING UNREPENTANT SINNERS. Thats what Jesus was trying to tell them, which good christians continue to tell the world, that there is a place/condition we desperately need to avoid. If anybody disagrees with this, they should take it up with Jesus.

Luke 16:19-31 is another vivid description, but they say its a parable, even though Jesus didn't give any other meaning to the passage, i'm still waiting for someone that will come and give us HIS OWN meaning. I will conclude with this. According to Mark 9:42-48, there is a terrible place/condition awaiting sinners, whatever name you call it, either you believe its immediately after death or later. This place/condition is so terrible, no matter how we try to water it down, dt Jesus said its better to cut our hands and pluck out our eyes than for us to be thrown into it. Meaning d pain we'll feel by cutting off our hands or plucking out our eyes, can not be compared to if we are thrown into that place/condition. THERE IS A TERRIBLE PLACE OR CONDITION AWAITING UNREPENTANT SINNERS. Thats what Jesus was trying to tell them, which good christians continue to tell the world, that there is a place/condition we desperately need to avoid. If anybody disagrees with this, they should take it up with Jesus.

frosbel:

Did you read my explanation or you just shut your eyes and walked past ?

Anyway, I cannot convince your heart , only GOD can, I personally held to this false doctrine of demons for almost all my life till I started to study for myself, asking God for wisdom and undergoing intensive research.

Let me repeat , forever and ever in this context means until mission is accomplished , Rev 20.14 which comes after v10 concludes this matter and calls it the second death. I wonder what death means in your dictionary.

Revelation is covered from start to finish with metaphors, if we start taking all of them literally , we might end up getting locked up for insanity

Pls listen to Profesor Frosbel's dictionary of biblical english, For ever and ever means "until mission is accomplished". Are you also saying that death never means "seperation from God" in the bible? Revelation is filled with metaphors? Yes. But not all of Revelation is metaphor. I can see your logic now, any scripture dt doesn't suit you is either a parable (rich man and lazarus) or a metaphor (rev 20:10). I've said my final word on this issue in my last post. Shalom

Been reading tru... Theres hardly a difference between wat some of yal with zero spiritual understanding are saying, and what the serpant said to Eve.

'Who said you'll die? Eat the fruit and you'll be as wise as God'...

Now im hearing:

'Who says you'll go to hell? God is too merciful to condemn you forever, rather you'll be forgiven'

I pray you dont carry this ignorance to the grave, cos you'll be in for a rude shock! Hell is real. Heaven is real.
Most of us dont really know how HOLY God is. His eyes cannot behold sin, let alone live with it. if he didnt spare the fallen angels, if he didnt spare His beloved Son('My father, why has Thou forsaken Me?'), is it you and I He'll spare?

A word is enough...

One day, we all will stand before the judgment throne giving FULL DETAILS of all we did here. That day draws near.

[quote author=Nascimento]Please someone should please reconcile this scriptures, acts 2:25-27 (king James version) : David speaketh .... THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN IN GREEK. THE WORD HELL IS ACTUALLY HADES WHICH MEANS GRAVE IN GREEK. THE TRANSLATORS FAULT

The torment is not literal. The everlasting torment simply means there will be no relief from the bondage of death forever. 2 Thessalonians 1:9

if God will not judge this present world,it means that God has to appologise to Sodom nd Gomorrah.