JesusisLord85:

When you read from the Message translation, it is little wonder he is quoting falsely.
Read the King James

Don't mind him he reads from different translations depending on which one can be best used to confuse people into believing the lie he is trying to present.

JesusisLord85: Matthew 8:32-33
And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine. . .

If you study that passage ,the shepherd of those swine were Israelites

Thank you for the invitation. I know that scripture, and Matthew 8:28 says "And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes". And I can tell you conclusively this was a gentile town. I like how you said "if you study the passage, the shepherd of those swine were israelites". Please tell me how you concluded that to be so. Unclean spirits casted into unclean animals. Makes sense.

The town inhabits Jews and Gentiles. The maniacs were Jews . As a principle Jesus by default didnt have dealings with Gentiles

Matthew 10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Don't spend time on irrelevant things. I have given you scriptural backing from Old Testament that God commanded unclean animals to be redeemed with cash .

Leviticus 27:27
27 If it be of an unclean animal, the owner may redeem it according to your valuation, and shall add a fifth to it; or if it is not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to your valuation.

The same principle applies to tithes and offerings. God did not accept spotted animals ,blind,cripple animal and unclean animal as tithes or as offerings . Such were converted to money. And 20 percent interest added

Pastor Kun:

Don't mind him he reads from different translations depending on which one can be best used to confuse people into believing the lie he is trying to present.

No rather I issue different translations that can break the truths into simple language for those who confuse themselves like you. . And I believe I'm at liberty to use any translation or is there a Nairaland recommended translation?

Joagbaje:

No rather I issue different translations that can break the truths into simple language for those who confuse themselves like you. . And I believe I'm at liberty to use any translation or is there a Nairaland recommended translation?

And you call burdening God's children with the Tithe lie , TRUTH ? Is this some sort of April fool joke or what ?

Does it occur to you than one day you will give account to GOD for preaching this fraudulent doctrine of demons or is your conscience seared with a hot iron ?

Joagbaje: .
God demanded animal and crop as offerings and tithes because they were used in the temple for national offerings and sacrifices as well as welfare of priests.

Is that what God told you

Joagbaje: .
How ever it's not every crop or animal that God accept as tithes and offerings. He didnt accept unclean crops and animals because they were not used in the temple. God only took what was usable. You couldn't give tithes of Carmel,dogs ,snakes or pigs etc because they were unclean . Does it mean these unclean farmers were exempted from tithing ? No . They had to give cash equivalent , it is called redemption.

Where is it stated in the bible that farmers of 'unclean crops and animals' should tithe their produce by redemption? what sort of gospel is this? so farmer of unclean crop like indian hemp can tithe by redemption no wonder pastors don't care bout the source of tithe! all they want from the so called tither is his/her tithe whether blood money or otherwise

Joagbaje: .
People had the option of giving tithes and offering by cash or kind. If you give it tithe in cash ,you add 20% extra cash.

Leviticus 27:31
31 And if a man wants to redeem any of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it.

If tithe of cash was value of a tenth of agric produce plus 20% making total tithe value of 12%, how come cash paying tithers today tithe 10%. and you don't think the tither paying 10% is shortchanging God

Joagbaje: .
If you give it tithe in cash ,you add 20% extra cash.

Leviticus 27:31
31 And if a man wants to redeem any of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it.

So cash was given as tithe in bible days. Salary earners fall under this category too

Who placed salary earners under this category? the pastor or God? what exactly is the salary earner redeeming? How come the salary earner is not paying 12%?

Joagbaje:

The town inhabits Jews and Gentiles. The maniacs were Jews . As a principle Jesus by default didnt have dealings with Gentiles

Matthew 10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Don't spend time on irrelevant things. I have given you scriptural backing from Old Testament that God commanded unclean animals to be redeemed with cash .

Leviticus 27:27
27 If it be of an unclean animal, the owner may redeem it according to your valuation, and shall add a fifth to it; or if it is not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to your valuation.

The same principle applies to tithes and offerings. God did not accept spotted animals ,blind,cripple animal and unclean animal as tithes or as offerings . Such were converted to money. And 20 percent interest added

Please give the scripture for the unclean animals in particular. Leviticus 27 is not about tithe so dont bother trying to use that.

Secondly, the town was known as Gentile. Yes, it may have inhabited Jews, but those pig farmers just happened to be in the area where Jesus was. Does that make them Israelites?
He didn't deal with Gentiles, that is true. But do not forget the Samaritan woman. The Samaritans were considered gentiles. See 2 Kings 17, and you will understand where this group came from, hence the animosity.

"the maniacs were jews" he says. Please prove it with scripture. Even if it were Isaelites farming pigs, tha does not prove your point. Not everyone was walking in accordance with the word. After all, it was a gentile town.

Shalom

Joagbaje: .
Luke 18:12
. . . I give tithes of all that I possess.[/color]

Joagbaje: .
Luke 18:12
I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income. . . .

Please make up your mind you are not showing good character when you post different versions of the same bible verse to suit different objectives.

frosbel:

And you call burdening God's children with the Tithe lie , TRUTH ? Is this some sort of April fool joke or what ?

It's not about tithe it's about the word . The word is truth. The principles of the bible are truths.it works for those who acted on them by faith. If you don't believe in tithing, cool no problem follow your convictions but make sure you serve Jesus . Some dont believe in fasting either . they call it WORK. claiming i don't have to starve myself for God to bless me. no problem . some believe is sabbath , others don't . it's fine too . But attacking other Christians for their faith is wrong. Let every one follow the truth he knows. It's the holyghost who opens the understanding of people . .i will still round up with my popular scripture .

Romans 14:5-6
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Joagbaje:


It's not about tithe it's about the word . The word is truth. The principles of the bible are truths.it works for those who acted on them by faith. If you don't believe in tithing, cool no problem follow your convictions but make sure you serve Jesus . Some dont believe in fasting either . they call it WORK. claiming i don't have to starve myself for God to bless me. no problem . some believe is sabbath , others don't . it's fine too . But attacking other Christians for their faith is wrong. Let every one follow the truth he knows. It's the holyghost who opens the understanding of people . .i will still round up with my popular scripture .

Romans 14:5-6
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Will a good father confuse the hell out of his children ?

Is God the author of confusion ?

There is a big difference between personal conviction and God's direction. Your personal conviction is not the TRUTH ?

Zikkyy:



Please make up your mind you are not showing good character when you post different versions of the same bible verse to suit different objectives.

He is just displaying the antics of prosperity gospel pimps.

JesusisLord85:

Please give the scripture for the unclean animals in particular. Leviticus 27 is not about tithe so dont bother trying to use that.

"the maniacs were jews" he says. Please prove it with scripture. Even if it were Isaelites farming pigs, tha does not prove your point. Not everyone was walking in accordance with the word. After all, it was a gentile town.

Shalom

Lets stop going in circles pls . Ok let me ask you this .

How does a dealer in dogs or a dealer in Carmel or a dealer on horses give his tithes?

Joagbaje: It's not about tithe it's about the word . The word is truth. The principles of the bible are truths.it works for those who acted on them by faith. If you don't believe in tithing, cool no problem follow your convictions but make sure you serve Jesus . Some dont believe in fasting either . they call it WORK. claiming i don't have to starve myself for God to bless me. no problem . some believe is sabbath , others don't . it's fine too . But attacking other Christians for their faith is wrong. Let every one follow the truth he knows. It's the holyghost who opens the understanding of people . .i will still round up with my popular scripture .

Romans 14:5-6
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Look at this man. Let me point two things out.
1: You sai something that screams 'false teacher'. You said "Let every one follow the truth he knows".
But Paul says "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." 1 Corinthians 1:10

Secondly. You have misunderstood Romans 14. Romans 14 is about "doubtful disputations"
Romans 14:1 "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations." The Law was not doubtful.
Romans 14 is about days of fasting. There were no designated days of fasting, so while some fasted on particular days, others did not. While some abstained from all food, others ate vegetables.
"3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him."

Paul is easy to misunderstand.
2 Peter 3:16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

After all, this is the same Paul that we read about in Acts 21:20-24
" And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

You can translate that to your Message translation if you like. In fact, let me do it for you brother:

They had a story to tell, too: “And just look at what’s been happening here—thousands upon thousands of God-fearing Jews have become believers in Jesus! But there’s also a problem because they are more zealous than ever in observing the laws of Moses. They’ve been told that you advise believing Jews who live surrounded by unbelieving outsiders to go light on Moses, telling them that they don’t need to circumcise their children or keep up the old traditions. This isn’t sitting at all well with them.
22-24 “We’re worried about what will happen when they discover you’re in town. There’s bound to be trouble. So here is what we want you to do: There are four men from our company who have taken a vow involving ritual purification, but have no money to pay the expenses. Join these men in their vows and pay their expenses. T[b]hen it will become obvious to everyone that there is nothing to the rumors going around about you and that you are in fact scrupulous in your reverence for the laws of Moses[/b]

Peace

Joagbaje:

Lets stop going in circles pls . Ok let me ask you this .

How does a dealer in dogs or a dealer in Carmel or a dealer on horses give his tithes?

Simple answer; they were not expected to tithe likewise several other people that did not produce from the land or rear clean animals.

JesusisLord85:

Look at this man. Let me point two things out.
1: You sai something that screams 'false teacher'. You said "Let every one follow the truth he knows".

Of course do you follow the truth you don't know? You follow your persuasion . That's what the bible says

But Paul says "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." 1 Corinthians 1:10

That's paul and his members who were submitted to him. He can't say that to the congregation under Peter or James . They obviously have doctrinal dispute .

[quote]Secondly. You have misunderstood Romans 14. Romans 14 is about "doubtful disputations"
Romans 14:1 "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations." The Law was not doubtful.[/quote ]

It very applicable because you and your cronies sees tithes as an issue of the law . Tithe is not an issue of the law but I still try to condescend to your level by saying " okay even if its of the law . Paul teaches be persuaded .

JesusisLord85:

Yes I know that passage. Now explain to me how you interpret that. TRUST that I will give you a clear interpretation. Now before you begin to type, consider this passage:
Acts 21:20-25
"When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."

So Paul lived according to the Law, as did Peter. It seems strange that people think they did not.

See my thread about the law. I am studying this at the moment, as I am not sure we are not to observe it.

Paul's ministry is with the Gentiles different from that of the holy ones in Jerusalem.

This is what Sabbath is for those who believe.
www.nairaland.com/1309931/perfect-sabbath

alexleo:

Stop messing up. You still soud your usual stu.pid and useless way.
Stop fooling yourself that you are a christian with your false teachiings of satan. My friend don't even talk because as far as am concerned you are a slave in the UK. If you want us to talk about status, run out of your slavery and come to Nigeria then we start.

You need fasting and prayers. I can join you for just one day.

alexleo:

You are late sir.

Ok. I have always known that no one can show me that.

JesusisLord85:

Yes I know that passage. Now explain to me how you interpret that. TRUST that I will give you a clear interpretation. Now before you begin to type, consider this passage:
Acts 21:20-25
"When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."

So Paul lived according to the Law, as did Peter. It seems strange that people think they did not.

See my thread about the law. I am studying this at the moment, as I am not sure we are not to observe it.

Point of correction saint, Paul did not leave according to the law or close to it after receiving revelation from God(Christ). Paul actually preached the gospel of 'Christ is the son of God' when he got converted but the gospel He preached later in his ministry changed and it differed from what the others preached.

Boomark:

You need fasting and prayers. I can join you for just one day.

Fasting and prayer for what?

shdemidemi:

Point of correction saint, Paul did not leave according to the law or close to it after receiving revelation from God(Christ). Paul actually preached the gospel of 'Christ is the son of God' when he got converted but the gospel He preached later in his ministry changed and it differed from what the others preached.

Please show me scripture. you are saying they lied in Acts 21:20-25? I find that difficult to believe

shdemidemi:

Point of correction saint, Paul did not leave according to the law or close to it after receiving revelation from God(Christ). Paul actually preached the gospel of 'Christ is the son of God' when he got converted but the gospel He preached later in his ministry changed and it differed from what the others preached.

You are in serious error and your comment above is shocking.

Tread carefully.

Lol.

You should have come up with something new na ?

This is an old trick of the bag.

Joagbaje:

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

This scripture is not talking about material prosperity, rather, it was talking about prospering in the Truth(increase in knowledge of the word of God).

Why did you not quote the scriptures in full ? See:

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth ."
(3 John 1:2-4).
............................
^
Not material prosperity.

Joagbaje:

2 Corinthians 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich,

You should know that christ was in the form of God in Heaven, but emptied himself to come to earth to save us.

Joagbaje:

yet for your sakes he became poor,

see above.

Joagbaje:

that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Yes, spiritual riches, connected to the father, the source of life. Which other riches is greater than life eternal.

Joagbaje:

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;

^^
spiritually poor.

The pherisees and levites that should have fed the people word of God did not do that, as such, the common man was spiritually malnuriched, just as you are feeding people with material prosperity instead of the truth which is the word of God. John 17:17.

Joagbaje:

he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted,

The word of God gives hope.

Jesus word, being the truth gives hope.

The Jews were in the promise land then, so, they were materially rich

Joagbaje:

to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised.

The words of Jesus are the truth, knowing the truth sets one free.("know the truth and the truth will set you free"

Joagbaje:

So which gospel did you get your poverty from?

Well, i dont preach poverty gospel, but rather, the message of the hope of literal eternal life in God's kingdom:

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;[color=#990000] and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:2-4).

This is the kingdom that christ had asked us to preach for, "as it is in heaven also upon earth".

Angels dont die in heaven, do they ?know the truth and the truth will set you f

Boomark:

You need fasting and prayers. I can join you for just one day.

Fasting and prayer for what? Because of frosbel? Abegi. If you don't have anything important to say you can keep quiet. Its not a crime.

JesusisLord85:

The Sabbath is holy. Isaiah 66:23 " And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord"
That is end time prophecy.

Jesus said in Matthew 24 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day".

Jesus expected Sabbath to be observed come that time in 70ad. And Isaiah suggests it will be observed right at the end.

Shalom

The flight of 70 CE.

Boomark:

Ok. I have always known that no one can show me that.

Its not your question that made me say you are late. I said you are late because pastor kun and shdemidemi gave me some more convincing point about this topic. My stand is let no one condemn tithers. Let people do as they are led by the spirit of God. Their points are very good and that's all I need then I pray about it for God's proper guidance. Noise making and calling pastors fraudulent and all that are waste waste of time to me. What I need in every issue is convincing points and until am convinced I ll not agree with you. Thanks.

alexleo:

Noise making and calling pastors fraudulent and all that are waste waste of time to me. What I need in every issue is convincing points and until am convinced I ll not agree with you. Thanks.

so it's wrong to call Pastors fraudulent but it's okay to call others s.tupid, fool etc.

Hypocrite !!

Joagbaje: .


I didnt want to enter debate . I only wanted to clarify you. So pls lets keep it scholastic and not make it a messy war.

Let me give a little background . The principle about tithing is "of all possession" . Abraham' gave tithe of all .

Genesis 14:20
. . . And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 28:22
. . . : and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Luke 18:12
. . . I give tithes of all that I possess.

God demanded animal and crop as offerings and tithes because they were used in the temple for national offerings and sacrifices as well as welfare of priests. How ever it's not every crop or animal that God accept as tithes and offerings. He didnt accept unclean crops and animals because they were not used in the temple. God only took what was usable. You couldn't give tithes of Carmel,dogs ,snakes or pigs etc because they were unclean . Does it mean these unclean farmers were exempted from tithing ? No . They had to give cash equivalent , it is called redemption. People had the option of giving tithes and offering by cash or kind. If you give it tithe in cash ,you add 20% extra cash.

Leviticus 27:31
31 And if a man wants to redeem any of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it.

So cash was given as tithe in bible days. Salary earners fall under this category too

Luke 18:12
I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income. . . .

Joe dollars

You will be happy to receive someones house as tithe.

Anything to keep the money coming.

frosbel:


so it's wrong to call Pastors fraudulent but it's okay to call others s.tupid, fool etc.

Hypocrite !!

And again I say to you STOP YOUR STU.PID TALK. I don't call somebody somewhere names like you. I only face whoever am dealing with. If you meet a pastor one on one and discuss an issue with him and from his submissions you find him fraudulent and you call him a fraud before him then that's understandable. Not the height of foolishness you display here by calling somebody who is not here with you all sorts of useless names because he is teaching what you don't agree with. Who told you that you are right in your teaching than him? Face me and leave people out there alone. The ones you have been calling me have I complained. Carry your foolish judgment out of my way.

JesusisLord85:

Sorry my brother, I must refute you. Leviticus is full of passages where, if one goes back on a promise he must add 20% on top of the value of what ever is pledged. Example below:
Leviticus 27:18-19 "But if they dedicate a field after the Jubilee, the priest will determine the value according to the number of years that remain until the next Year of Jubilee, and its set value will be reduced. 19 If the one who dedicates the field wishes to redeem it, they must add a fifth to its value, and the field will again become theirs.

So there you have it. By the way, one fifth is same thing as 20% for anybody reading this thinking 'why is he highlighting one fifth'.

hundred(100) divide by five(5) = twenty(20)

100/5 = 20

Dont mind rubber joe

its just left for him to carry Gun to turn armed rubber

alexleo:

And again I say to you STOP YOUR STU.PID TALK. I don't call somebody somewhere names like you. I only face whoever am dealing with. If you meet a pastor one on one and discuss an issue with him and from his submissions you find him fraudulent and you call him a fraud before him then that's understandable. Not the height of foolishness you display here by calling somebody who is not here with you all sorts of useless names because he is teaching what you don't agree with. Who told you that you are right in your teaching than him? Face me and leave people out there alone. The ones you have been calling me have I complained. Carry your foolish judgment out of my way.

Here was I thinking you turned a new leaf.

alexleo:

Its not your question that made me say you are late. I said you are late because pastor kun and shdemidemi gave me some more convincing point about this topic. My stand is let no one condemn tithers. Let people do as they are led by the spirit of God. Their points are very good and that's all I need then I pray about it for God's proper guidance. Noise making and calling pastors fraudulent and all that are waste waste of time to me. What I need in every issue is convincing points and until am convinced I ll not agree with you. Thanks.

Am not saying you should agree with me. And no one is condemning tithers. Where the problem is with those who preach that tithing is a much for Christians, who call Christian non-tithers robbers using malachi, who use tithe cards to monitor tithe and check those they will attend their burial ceremony.

If you check well, God is more interested in man than church building, light, tv, fan, etc. Tithers should not because of hoarding their tithe allow the least of Jesus' brother to die because of hospital bill. For my Lord will surely ask, " why did you leave me to die, the money you are keeping till Sunday is it not still for me?" Surely, Mt 25:41-46 must come to pass.

Hebrew 13:16 is all we know as Christians.

My response here will be @ Joaagbaje

1. Biblical interpretations cannot be adequately done with contemporary editions like the message. Even KJV has its error despite being the best translation ever. Accurate translation requires referral to original Greek and Hebrew, using good concordance.

2. The Romans 14. scripture would have applied to the dispute on tithing but for the ends that many have subjected tithing to. I follow Pastor Kun here: no one condemns tithe giving; what is condemned is the compulsion place on it; the wrong use of church finances many subject tithe to; the extravagance; the proliferation of churches. etc. Point is, will there be the liberty to do all these if tithes were not payed? Thus the need to locate the true biblical tithe that has been found to be gone with Moses ordinances and laws. Tithe, today, is not a small issue of doctrine, its the foundation of many churches. It need to be removed that the true foundation be unearthed: which Christ the Lord.