coogar:

shouldn't there be a law for men/women like this? surely this is some sort of fraud. misrepresenting one's self to enter into a contract is fraudulent anywhere else but marriage!

That would make sense sha.





After reading the whole thread, I still haven't found the other way 'do we use'.

On a final note to clarify points and settle the unsettled. I still reiterate that the question is solely based on profession of faith and not on natural/lustful instinct.

If an atheist or any other person who is not a Christian does not believe in FAITH, he/she is excusable. I wonder how a Christian called faith something blind and foolish and yet such christian want to have faith in God's blessings. They are not mutually exclusive. The way you can trust God for a miracle is the same way you can trust God for answers to the question of marriage. He is interested in every areas of our lives.

I have tested and found to be true not just in marriage but in every aspect. I only need to ask the hidden things in prayers and I get results. I try as much as possible not to quote the bible when I engage in a public discussion, I prefer citing real and practical experience. I got the answers I needed, there was no need to test run. If the answers were not favourable, I would have made a U-turn.

@, there is a difference between a religious and hyper-active church goer and someone who sincerely follow the Lord and not religious dogma or church traditions. The mistake most people in Christendom make is having their Pastor sanction who to marry or crucial decisions of life. You can only say that the brother was a devoted church member but can't vouch for his personal relationship with God. How are we sure that he was even sincere in his choice or he just saw a fine lady attending church and he felt she is right for him. My point is no sincere person in issues ever missed the road, there will always be divine intervention at the last stop before entering into bondage.

We as Christians must understand that every christian brother/sister is GOOD for marriage but not every one of them is RIGHT for individual. The question of who is right can only be answered by the creator only if we go to him in sincerity and tender our heart desires. He will surely give us what perfectly suit us. He doesn't make mistakes nor error. Albeit if someone prays to God with a set mind of getting rubber stamp but not willing to hear what God has to say, when problem arises who is to blame? To paraphrase a passage, ".....An highway shall be there, the wayfarers though FOOLs shall not ERR therein..." No sincere person who wholly trust God will miss it, except there is something he is hiding. He knows the sex-ual and other needs of everyone and will surely meet our expectations even more only if we SINCERELY aks.

I asked a question before with no response. How do you test drive other hidden areas of life apart from sex that may shatter the marriage in a future partner?

To Christian singles, it is a good thing to develop a healthy and good relationship with God so you can get answers to all your questions without intervention of anyone even the Pastors. In marriage, whatever the pastor tells you is supposed to be a confirmation of what you already know or an addition to what you know. Pastors should not be turned to seers.

I can imagine why there are thousands of churches springing up in every corner yet with no life and power as experienced of old.

In summary, you either do your marriage in God's way trusting Him or you do it in your own way trusting your human capabilities.

It is well with everyone.

bettymafy: Did u "touch/smooch" or kiss your partner before the wedding? Did u even as much as lust after him/her? If yes to any of the above, then please keep quiet, u also fornicated.

Any human capable of abstaining from the bolded should not waste time dwelling with us sinners! Such being should be in heaven amongst saints and angels!

Morning all please no trolling this thread

I love the sound logic and emotive faith espoused by each camp

Please let there be peace

Coogar!... You are a don
Your retorts should be cataloged in a tome

@efe.. Good comportment under the assaults, both subtle and overt
I love the riposte on lack of data on the success of marriages


The elephant in the room that no one wants to acknowledge is that there is a lot of sexxual frustration especially among the abstinence folk

The other side is that going up and down and getting punny mileage is undesirable

And this is the gbege...


@osisi Excellent moderating

May God help us all

BoboYekini: now this is so wrong. [b]Do you know how many repressed young men would read this your misguided fevered notions and take solace therein to perpetuate their unfortunate inexperience? [/b]You suck bruv

I do not understand the bolded. However, I gave an example from my personal experience which is true for all if done the right way. I am not misguiding anyone. It would be better if you point out the grey areas confusing to you.

In between, thanks for the compliments.

I am also waiting for the perfect man or woman who did not jerk off or do fricky tongue or azz ish since everyone here is supposedly hypocritical

Hahaha

freakcin:
Any human capable of abstaining from the bolded should not waste time dwelling with us sinners! Such being should be in heaven amongst saints and angels!

WheTher you tested oh: as in by inserTing the sim card in a phone, or u touched o, licked oh, sucked o, took iT Through the back door,etc all na the same.

If u wanTed to heap everything on The feeT of faith, why touch? Why lick? Why suck? As far as The bible is concerned, they are all sins! Bible made it clear ThaT all sins are equal.

I'm a sinner, I don't dispuTe That facT, buT iT would be double Tragedy if I lived a se...xually frusTraTed married life and sTill go To hell. Menh, I goTta enjoy one.

If I wanna stay off sin completely, I will do iT compleTely! I can't say I wanna sTay off sin and yeT go down on a man I'm noT married To, suck and lick and still come out here and starT shouTing. That hypocrisy aT iTs peak!

donchris999: Bro, your exchanging words with that guy. You get time oo. I swear you really get time.

Ma guy no blame me. My mama na my queen, for real.

vivianc: WheTher you tested oh: as in by inserTing the sim card in a phone, or u touched o, licked oh, sucked o, took iT Through the back door,etc all na the same.

If u wanTed to heap everything on The feeT of faith, why touch? Why lick? Why suck?i As far as The bible is concerned, they are all sins! Bible made it clear ThaT all sins are equal.

I'm a sinner, I don't dispuTe That facT, buT iT would be double Tragedy if I lived a se...xually frusTraTed married life and sTill go To hell. Menh, I goTta enjoy one.

If I wanna stay off sin completely, I will do iT compleTely! I can't say I wanna sTay off sin and yeT go down on a man I'm noT married To, suck and lick and still come out here and starT shouTing. That hypocrisy aT iTs peak!

word! Hypocrisy stinks.

I've bn followin this thread dilligenty. I don't know why all the arguments honestly.if u want to abstain till d d day,good,if u don't,still good.that's why we r all wired differently.
Some will check,at d end of d day, SI will occur(realistic),some will not and its as they imagined it to be.
Meanwhile I posted earlier that catholic church gives room for smoochin towards weddin time but no sex,whatever that means. For those that want to check it out but can't bc of religious beliefs, there is no way u will be with ur intended on some occasions and u will not c something stretchy dowm there unless he is always on caftan.nowadays when guys don't were briefs.and bc hormones r runnin wild,ur hand might glide down there unintentionally.
I hv a friend that I've posted somethin like this about her.more than 40 and single,still test drivin.I think her prayer now will be let there cometh a man,hope its not too late for her.
The way ladies r worried abt d standin and performance is still how guys worry abt ladies conceivin and givin birth.some men will still run away when they c a very saggy breast.it all boils down to what u want
As for me,I wouldn't call it test drive,hormones get d better part of us and still at d back of my mind,I was prayin he is ok and we r compatible.
So diff options for diff folks

freakcin:
Any human capable of abstaining from the bolded should not waste time dwelling with us sinners! Such being should be in heaven amongst saints and angels!

Aaaarrggghhh! Mesef tire! If u want to obey the bible, then obey to the letter! Donot even lust after anyone! If u do, u have sinned and not better than someone who settled down to do the do. They should stop decieving themselves!

vivianc: WheTher you tested oh: as in by inserTing the sim card in a phone, or u touched o, licked oh, sucked o, took iT Through the back door,etc all na the same.

If u wanTed to heap everything on The feeT of faith, why touch? Why lick? Why suck? As far as The bible is concerned, they are all sins! Bible made it clear ThaT all sins are equal.

I'm a sinner, I don't dispuTe That facT, buT iT would be double Tragedy if I lived a se...xually frusTraTed married life and sTill go To hell. Menh, I goTta enjoy one.

If I wanna stay off sin completely, I will do iT compleTely! I can't say I wanna sTay off sin and yeT go down on a man I'm noT married To, suck and lick and still come out here and starT shouTing. That hypocrisy aT iTs peak!

GBAMMEST!!!!

Nice post but could you answer bettymafy question

bellong:

I do not understand the bolded. However, I gave an example from my personal experience which is true for all if done the right way. I am not misguiding anyone. It would be better if you point out the grey areas confusing to you.

In between, thanks for the compliments.

bettymafy:

Bellong and others who said they married without testing, I have a question for u and please answer sincerely. . . Did u "touch/smooch" or kiss your partner before the wedding? Did u even as much as lust after him/her? .

Madam CC! I dont have any sinister intention asking what i just asked! Look, the logic that the pro pre-marital sex for intending couples lies on the intending couple's sexual compartibility. Now, they are proffering that you test-drive. My question is: those that test-drive and still engage in extra-marital (adultery) activities, what is then their reason for that. You think the bible( word of God) that tells us to abstain dont consider this shortcomings in human. Now, madam CC! How do men also get to check that the woman they want to marry can concieve too? Ok with the logics flying on this thread, should we also conclude that men should get their intending spouse pregnant before they venture into the institution called marriage to ascertain their fertility?

chaircover:

Donchris I know where you are going with this and I am asking you not to, and to lets focus on the topic. What you are about to do serves no purpose. Biko

Abstaining from sex doesn't necessarily mean one is trying to avoid 'sin' or going by the doctrines in the bible. For all have sinned!

For some it is that, and for some it is not. It could be just a personal philosophy not to indulge for reasons best known to them. And that in anyway shouldn't make them an holier than thou!

To each his own and either parties with contrary views shouldn't force their opinions down each other's throat.

Neither is anyone better or bad or whatever!

biolabee: Nice post but could you answer bettymafy question

I'm seriously awaiting his reponse too.

Buh to be honest, majority are not really "test driving" sha. Many do not even intend to buy the car at all... Others keep returning to "test drive" over and over.

As for the topic, there really is no way to find out, that doesn't fall into the Bible's definition of "sin". Since each one would carry his own load, why let others arrange your own for you?

biolabee: Nice post but could you answer bettymafy question

I didn't see the question before. We need to understand that I only stated my opinion and did not attack anyone's opinion or resolve. The question was strictly about how to confirm as a christian without testing. If I had a foreknowledge it wasn't going to be sharing of scriptural principles and experience, I wouldn't have contributed reason I always choose what to contribute in this forum. Nobody is an island of knowledge, we are learning daily. I have learnt some stuff on this forum and will keep learning. If I see any deficiency in me addressed in any thread, I try as much as possible to adjust and turn a new leaf than trying to cook up reasons why I am engaging in them. If my opinion has angered anybody, I cannot apologise for that because the OP stated clearly in the opening post on ways Christians/Muslims can confirm meaning asking for godly and religious counsel. If it is otherwise, I would have given another dimension to it.

To answer Betty's question, is there any point I said I was a complete perfection, at a point emotions got hold of me, yes I hugged her and held her tightly while hugging. I do repent from that and will never give excuse for such behavior as exemplified in some posts. I never made the mistake because I wanted to test run even though I knew what I was getting.
My friends know about this slip up because am always open and ready to amend from mistakes than giving excuses to my fault.

I do not have problem nor grouse with anybody that chose to test-run or even over-drive, I only stepped in when it became a discussion from spiritual point of view. The fact that someone made a mistake should not be a yardstick to measure what is the right thing to do and should not even be the scale to weigh everyone. Know what you believe and follow the rules as stated therein.

If the OP or anyother creates a thread asking for mistakes we have made as Christians and how we moved away from there, maybe I can talk more about my individual mistakes as a believer. All I know is the question is about how a christian/muslim can confirm without testing, so I see no big deal in all the fuss created for the practical and personal opinion of one.

nice one @bellong... i guess the issue came when some posters became too extreme in defence of their line of thought.. both parties in ths case

Some constants have been laid out

Pre Marital sex is wrong .. how can we obey divine injunction and still meet with avoidance of potential issues

deols:
What would God want? Why does He call fornication a sin?

i'm sure God would understand why test-driving is imminent. humans have grown to be more dishonest than they were 2000 years ago.

You can't be thoroughly religious nor give a religious view if your actions are not directed by faith. Faith is the base on which religiosity is built. That is why we pray and believe they would be answered.

to be perfectly honest, i don't even have a problem to those who choose to be celibate before marriage. my gripe is with those who kiss and handle and then point fingers at those who engage in pre-marital sex!

that to me is world class hypocrisy!

biolabee: nice one @bellong... i guess the issue came when some posters became too extreme in defence of a line of thought

Some constants have been laid out

Pre Marital sex is wrong .. how can we obey divine injunction and still meet with avoidance of potential issues

The bolded is what I have been trying to explain and not whether somebody did it or not. Like I said earlier on, from Christian perspective, having a relationship with God is paramount in any thing we do. The relationship and guide we get from Him in our daily lives does not exclude the issue of marriage and intimacy in marriage.

The easiest way to know is to be sincere and ask questions from God. He is the maker of the person in question, He has his manual and plans for life. He will reveal everything in darkness. The spirit of God can search the inward part of the belly to expose every hidden things. I have tested that on many issues of life including marriage without intervention of any pastor.
Thank you

@ vivianc: Make you dey suck wella

I agree with you and as CC has said where does testing stop

Do you test a child will live long enough before you send him to Harvard

Do you test the exam questions before you do it so you will be sure you will pass

Do you test illness to be sure your wife will not leave you in times of trials n tribulation


Faith is key..


May God help us


PS It is a hard teaching but faith need but be as small as a mustard seed

bellong:

The bolded is what I have been trying to explain and not whether somebody did it or not. Like I said earlier on, from Christian perspective, having a relationship with God is paramount in any thing we do. The relationship and guide we get from Him in our daily lives does not exclude the issue of marriage and intimacy in marriage.

The easiest way to know is to be sincere and ask questions from God. He is the maker of the person in question, He has his manual and plans for life. He will reveal everything in darkness. The spirit of God can search the inward part of the belly to expose every hidden things. I have tested that on many issues of life including marriage without intervention of any pastor.
Thank you

bellong:

The bolded is what I have been trying to explain and not whether somebody did it or not. Like I said earlier on, from Christian perspective, having a relationship with God is paramount in any thing we do. The relationship and guide we get from Him in our daily lives does not exclude the issue of marriage and intimacy in marriage.

The easiest way to know is to be sincere and ask questions from God. He is the maker of the person in question, He has his manual and plans for life. He will reveal everything in darkness. The spirit of God can search the inward part of the belly to expose every hidden things. I have tested that on many issues of life including marriage without intervention of any pastor.
Thank you

but many have done this with fasting and praying and still got their hands burnt! i think we over-depend on God too much. he's given us all that is necessary to put ourselves out of any imminent danger.

5 sensory organs, limbs, a functional brain, etc are enough to navigate us from damaged goods. i know fornication is a sin but how does one become so sure the one you are about to sign a life-contract with is what she says she is?

if you work as a banker, do you just accept any document from a stranger based on blind faith? do you just employ people based on blind faith? do you just give out loans to applicants based on blind faith? why is marriage different?

coogar:

but many have done this with fasting and praying and still got their hands burnt! i think we over-depend on God too much. he's given us all that is necessary to put ourselves out of any imminent danger.

5 sensory organs, limbs, a functional brain, etc are enough to navigate us from damaged goods. i know fornication is a sin but how does one become so sure the one you are about to sign a life-contract with is what she says she is?

if you work as a banker, do you just accept any document from a stranger based on blind faith? do you just employ people based on blind faith? do you just give out loans to applicants based on blind faith? why is marriage different?

I understand your point and do not agree less. However, questions need be asked from those that did it with prayers and fasting and got it wrong. Yoruba adage says "ki a se bi won tin se, ki o ba le ri bi tin ma ri" (Let us do it as it is done so that it can give desired result). If we want to go by biblical way, we must go by it by its standard.

Yes, there are many wolves in sheep's clothings in the church and the best way is still asking God specific questions. Infact fasting may not be necessary, God will answer the issues of marriage same way He answers other issues asked. His word does not fail, if I have not tested and proved it, probably I may not be bold enough to say it. God's answers to my questions had saved me from doom in the past. Would have entered wrong union on several occasions but He was always there to save because He knows that I deal sincerely with Him.

Try it and confirm what I mean, His directions will not only be useful in marriage but in every areas of life.

bellong:

I didn't see the question before. We need to understand that I only stated my opinion and did not attack anyone's opinion or resolve. The question was strictly about how to confirm as a christian without testing. If I had a foreknowledge it wasn't going to be sharing of scriptural principles and experience, I wouldn't have contributed reason I always choose what to contribute in this forum. Nobody is an island of knowledge, we are learning daily. I have learnt some stuff on this forum and will keep learning. If I see any deficiency in me addressed in any thread, I try as much as possible to adjust and turn a new leaf than trying to cook up reasons why I am engaging in them. If my opinion has angered anybody, I cannot apologise for that because the OP stated clearly in the opening post on ways Christians/Muslims can confirm meaning asking for godly and religious counsel. If it is otherwise, I would have given another dimension to it.

To answer Betty's question, is there any point I said I was a complete perfection, at a point emotions got hold of me, yes I hugged her and held her tightly while hugging. I do repent from that and will never give excuse for such behavior as exemplified in some posts. I never made the mistake because I wanted to test run even though I knew what I was getting.
My friends know about this slip up because am always open and ready to amend from mistakes than giving excuses to my fault.

I do not have problem nor grouse with anybody that chose to test-run or even over-drive, I only stepped in when it became a discussion from spiritual point of view. The fact that someone made a mistake should not be a yardstick to measure what is the right thing to do and should not even be the scale to weigh everyone. Know what you believe and follow the rules as stated therein.

If the OP or anyother creates a thread asking for mistakes we have made as Christians and how we moved away from there, maybe I can talk more about my individual mistakes as a believer. All I know is the question is about how a christian/muslim can confirm without testing, so I see no big deal in all the fuss created for the practical and personal opinion of one.

Looking at it from the religious POV, sin is sin! Whether one sins by mistake (overtaken by emotions) or by wanting to test drive, it is still sin. The reasons for indulging doesn't make it any less. There is no sin greater than the other and non can be justified.

By the way, thanks for being honest.

bettymafy:

Looking at it from the religious POV, sin is sin! Whether one sins by mistake (overtaken by emotions) or by wanting to test drive, it is still sin. The reasons for indulging doesn't come into play here. There is no sin greater than the other and non can be justified.

By the way, thanks for being honest.

Thank you too for your contribution. There is no justification for sin but there are graver punishment for someone who already devise a plan to sin. Search the scriptures, examples of the two abound. In all, He is a merciful God.

bellong:

Thank you too for your contribution. There is no justification for sin but there are graver punishment for someone who already devise a plan to sin. Search the scriptures, examples of the two abound. In all, He is a merciful God.

I would have loved to engage you as regards that, but. . . Let's leave that for another day.

stillwater: If I'm having sex, it's because of my urges, I don't think i'll rationalize it to test driving. How do you people even enjoy the sex with the word 'test driving' hanging over your heads?

You don't believe they were actually test-driving, do you?
Vivi, there're people who actually obey the injunction to the letter. I know of a friend who never kissed her husband until the pastor said "You may now kiss the bride"-no touching, no smooching, no seeing each other's private parts, nothing-and to say they were in the relationship for about 7 years.

It's not easy but if one's primary aim is to obey God and his word-all you would ask for is his grace and live it one day at a time.