Ihedinobi: "Jesus is Deity and not God". What does that even mean, abeg?

What is Deity? What is God? How does the submission of Jesus make Him less than God considering that Scriptures say that He deliberately humbled Himself to take the form of man?

Deep Sight: Anony, Please what verse is your last post treating?

Is the verse being treated Luke 10:1?

Because you seem to have discussed generally many verses, and not a specific verse as we have been proceeding?

Ihedinobi: Been following this thread from the start, but I consider it best to not actually get involved. Begging the pardon of Deep Sight and Mr Anony. I just think I should point out how curious this statement is: "Jesus is Deity and not God". What does that even mean, abeg?

What is Deity? What is God? How does the submission of Jesus make Him less than God considering that Scriptures say that He deliberately humbled Himself to take the form of man?

Anyway, not discussing any further, just thought to point that out.

@DrummaBoy, I'm not inclined to a full study of tithing yet with you. I think it's an interesting idea but it's too much for me right now. The first instant I am ready to handle it I'll reach out to you. And, by the way, responding to your post was not my only intent in quoting it, I meant to both make an example of it and respond to it and those are what I did. There's no.need to get upset about it.

DrummaBoy:

I wish to respond to the bolded.

1. To be fair to Bidam, I heard the concept of Jesus being Deity and not God from Pastor Kun and having meditated on it, I felt it was the best middle line for most debates between Trinitarians and Unitarians. Like many doctrinal positions in the bible, there are scriptures one can bring up to back either sides (the opening posts of this thread proves this) but to be strictly trinitarian and use the words of the creeds that says somethings to this effect "Jesus is very God..." etc, may be going beyond what the scriptures say. And to be strictly Unitarian and say Jesus is not God is to make a similar error. While I await, Mr Anony and Deep Sight to answer your question, I think the concept of Jesus being Deity means in a sense he is God; has the attributes of God; does the function of God; but the fact that Jesus is not God means that Jesus and God are two distinct personalities in the God-head, the trinity, if you like. Jesus can and must be worshipped; and in the process all glory goes to God but he is not God, in the sense that God is God by Himself. The verse I quoted 1 Cor 11:3 uses the analogy of marriage to describe the God-head. The man and his wife are said to be one. But the wife is not the man; neither is the man the wife. In many instances, whatever is done to the wife, is done to the man; if you respect or disrespect the wife, the man feels respected or disrespected as the case may be. But as the man is the head of the wife, so also is God the head of Christ. That I think is what that scripture said. I want to however beg Anony and Deep for jumping the gun in this matter; I hope I have not broken the rules.
Just as frosbel and Pastor Kun are my friends, so are you. We only disagree on doctrinal issues... abi?

Bidam: You captured my thoughts exactly.That is drummaboy for you,in trying to justify his friends frosbel and kun,he erroneously made that statement.

Tgirl4real: Sorry to badge in on the discussion sir.

How can u say Jesus is deity and not God?

If we agree Jesus is deity i.e. divine, but not God, that means he is a lesser god to God.

And that is polytheism.

DrummaBoy:

It is a difficult subject no doubt. I await the masters to share their take on it.

Enigma: ^^^ In fact, not only would it make Jesus a "lesser" god; it will make him a false god.

Biblically, it simply does not make sense to say Jesus is "deity" but not "God"; it is unbiblical and it is nonsensical.

The Jehovah Witnesses are the chief proponents of that nonsense. See a discussion of how much they had to manipulate their bankrupt sham of a "bible" to "support" the nonsense http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/jehovah-new-testament.php

JMAN05:

lol. we all learn everyday. before i thought that it was wrong to refer to Jesus as god, which will make him a false god.

but i dont think that reasoning is correct. why?

exod. 4:16 reads: NIV

"He will speak to the people for you, and it will
be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him."

psalms 8:5

"You have made them a little
lower than the angels (elohim)
and crowned them with glory
and honor."

1 cor. 8:5

"For even if
there are so-called gods, whether in
heaven or on earth (as indeed there are
many “gods” and many “lords”)." (even verse 6 helps to halt the trinity dogma).

from the above, righteous angels and a human is refered to as God(elohim or theos). note: capitalisation is an english concept, not from hebrew or greek.

so can we rightly opine that god is false? will it not mean that all the word "GOD" (whether capital or small letter) is equally false since they have no capitalisation in the originals? i dont think u will say yes. so that Jesus is god doesnt make him false. the word "God" as used in the bible often refer to mighty one or somebody or something that/who is worshipped. it does not have the sense of one who is worshipped all the time.

so Jesus can be called God or mighty God but not almighty God.

elohim or theos (God) is used as a common noun in the bible or as a title. Not as a proper noun. so GOD is not the proper name of the almighty but YHWH (or Jehovah in english) is.

2. You sighted a site which claim that Jehovah was an insertion by NWT Committee.

it is rather funny and misinformation to make that assertion.
let me ask u sir, is it possible for the apostles of Jesus to quote a scripture from the "OT" and remove God's personal name because of superstition from judaisers? someone will say that the septuagint doesnt contain that name which no doubt was where the apostles quoted from. may i tell u that it was there in the original septuagint. i need a scholar who will say, "it is a lie".

now the site u quoted stated that the "NT" manuscript we have never used that name. yes he is correct, but can he produce any manuscript written by the apostles? Never! Polycarp, Justin Matyr are not his apostles.

I personally do not like discussing irrelevant issues like this. (though there is no point to the claim). if Jehovah (YHWH) is His name, what is a sin in using it in His book, even if it does not occure there?

I think discussing whether His name is Jehovah or whether the name appeared in the "OT" is more logical than discussing whether it should appear in the "NT".

Even some hebrew versions of the bible used it in the "NT".

Pastor Kun:

Thanx so much for this submission especially the highlighted. It clearly explains the misunderstanding of the trinitarians and puts things in clearer perspective. The bible recognises the fact that there are other gods but there is only one almighty God. On the issue of Jesus being a lesser god, Jesus already answered the question himself when he declared that the father is greater than he is and that he is subject to the will of his father. We don't need to add sentiments to it because we love Jesus and start adding to scriptures to exhalt Jesus, we ought to be bound by what the scriptures reveal and not man made ideas.

benalvino: Know when the bible is being figurative... Satan is not the god of this world and here is why

Deuteronomy 4:35-39
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (v.35)
The LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. (v.39)

The God of earth is jahovah that's why we worship him...

If Satan is the god of earth then it should be ok to worship him... But the bible teaches that there is only one God of this world who is Jehovah... Satan is no different from the woods that people call gods but they are not gods.

The thing is God said he will destroy any socalled gods that didn't create the heaven and earth.

Jeremiah 10:11
The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Question is will all of us as gods as you say perish?

benalvino: Deuteronomy 4:35-39
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (v.35)
The LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. (v.39)


Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me.

1 Kings 18:39
The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.

Isaiah 43:10
I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 44:8
I am the LORD, and there is none else ... There is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:5-21
I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. (vv.5-6)
There is no God else beside me ... There is none beside me. (v.21)


Isaiah 46:9
I am God, and there is none else: I am God, and there is none like me.

Mark 12:29-32
The Lord our God is one Lord. (v.29)
There is one God; and there is none other but he. (v.32)


John 17:3
That they might know thee the only true God.

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.

This verses proves anything called god in heaven or earth that is not GOD by nature is idol... They are called gods by men.

Boomark: @Drummerboy

I like the way you stuck with knowing the truth even when philosophers are here trying laugh/convince you.

If you don't know the meaning of Godhead, you will not understand what this means "Jesus is a deity but not God(the Father). Non has ever countered it since i started showing them the true meaning of Godhead(the nature of the Father) which they erroneously believe consist of 3 persons.

Even when put on your trinity nature, you will be just helpless against it. It is a solid rock not philosophy of men. You will be surprised to also know those who are in Christ have the fullness of the Godhead in them through Christ. Just go and see them below.

www.nairaland.com/1318987/trinitarian-disrespect-god/9

www.nairaland.com/1127181/jesus-christ-servant-god-trinity/12

deity

[ dee-i-tee ]



noun plural de·i·ties.

1. a god or goddess.

2. divine character or nature, especially that of the Supreme Being; divinity.

3. the estate or rank of a god: The king attained deity after his death.



4. a person or thing revered as a god or goddess: a society in which money is the only deity.

5. God; Supreme Being

DrummaBoy:

This is something I am not about to rush into believing or not. Remember I still consider myself trinitarian but I appreciate the argument that emphasizes the Father as the Almighty God more from this discourse. Those threads can be difficult to peruse but I would make time for them. But you could chip in your own thoughts too on the theses "Jesus is Deity but not God (the Father)".

Thanks.

Boomark:

Godhead is the divine nature of God ie something like his qualities. You don't go into His nature to look for any spirit. He owns the Godhead and He gives it to whomever He wants.

Romans 1:19-20
King James Version (KJV)
19 Because that which may be
known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him
from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by
the things that are made, even his
eternal power and Godhead; so
that they are without excuse:

Col 2:9[b]
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.[/b]

Do you see how wrong your trinity doctrine is. Jesus did not step out of Godhead in the flesh. Its fullness dwelt in him bodily(in flesh). have you ever wondered who told the trinitarians that Godhead consist of 3 persons? where did that come from?

Boomark:

You're welcome bro. At your convenience, just go through them. I posted the page link to where i explained them so you don't have to go through the thread searching for them.

Understanding Godhead as it is in the scripture is the solution to your question. This is not the full details:

JMAN05: "Guys dont feel this thread with Gibs... we are suppose to
watch deep sight and anony debate... ''

I am not subtituting my there debate with mine. am jst responding to a post. honestly their discussion take too much time.

"the post above this
one is another crap trying to say humans are called God...
even the bible made it clear that they are all idols... plus
God made it well known that he will destroy all the so called
god that did not create the heaven and earth..."

I am not saying that God will not destroy man made gods or bad angels. I am saying that humans are sometimes referred to as God in the bible. the bible called Moses God, will God deatroy Moses as a false god? remember u are attacking the bible NOT me.

"God is not a title. the men that are called god are title which
makes them idols... you and i know that carve woods are
not God but they are called God that is what makes them
false..."

a) in effect u are calling Moses an idol, including the faithful angels of God himself? exod. 4:16, psalms 8:5.
b) how can "God" be a proper name, yet God has a name Jehovah? psalms 83:18. baal, 'ashtoret', artemis, zeux are all gods but their PROPER NAME is not god but the above. in the same way Jehovah is a God, but God is not His name. all of us here maybe teachers, but is our individual name teacher? no! that is the way elohim or theos are used in the scriptures.

"the Bible says they are not God by nature...
so title of god that men answer = idols... and all cases the by
says God will destroy them...
Jesus fall in God is Nature category so Jesus is God by nature
and not God because man made him his god which means
idol.''

you said that men who answer god are idols. so Moses is an Idol including faithful angels?

was it men that made the angels?

Chibuebem: i think it came from John chapter 1: verses 1 to 5. And then verse 14.

frosbel: The creed of Jesus :

"Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD." - Mark 12;29

Enigma:


Mark 12

35 While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “Why do the teachers of the law say that the Messiah is the son of David? 36 David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:

“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:

“Sit at my right hand

until I put your enemies

under your feet.” ’

37 David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”

JMAN05: "if moses was god then me and you are
gods..."

no. if the bible calls Moses prophet, does it make me and u prophets?

"The bible clearly states that moses will
be like god to pharoah. Now if moses
was god already will will God have to
make him be like god? And notice it
was only to pharoah."

a) no. however i quoted exod. 4:16 not chapter 7. so he was not God to pharoah alone.
b) all i want to prove is that men are also referred to as gods. i still have other egs of that.

"Again the bible makes it clear that all
the gods of the nations are idols.
If moses is god and he did not create
the heaven and earth the bible says
God will destroy him."

i dont i agree with u that God will destroy Moses cos he was called god (elohim). that will mean that God will also destroy His faithful angels. psalms 8:5. is that logical?

"U n jw are mistaking. When the bible
say Satan is the god of this world
something different because bible was
clear that God is the God of the
heaven earth and under the earth and
there is non else".

that satan is the god of this world does not mean that God is no longer the owner of the universe. true christians are no part of the world. it is this world, which true christians are no part of, that satan rules. john 12:31

we face contermination cos we reside in the mist of those ruled by satan.

You can form a thread and invite me on any topic of ur choice.

Zephaniah 2:11 The LORD will be awesome to them when he destroys all the gods of the earth. Distant nations will bow down to him, all of them in their own lands.

Psalm 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens

Jeremiah 10:10-12 10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. 11Thus shall you say to them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. 12He has made the earth by his power, he has established the world by his wisdom, and has stretched out the heavens by his discretion

Tgirl4real: Let's not make this thread unnecessarily long.

Goodmorning sirs.

Tgirl4real: Where are the owners of these thread?