quotable

esmeralda1: @ syncan, i,ve been tryin to quote ur post but i dont understand y its not going. Pride? what pride, wot am i proud about, Pride is far from it dear, i was not even talkin to frosbel about that. i said WE, even me needs the Holy Spirit for interpretation of the Bible n many other things in my life.
Mr syncan ur words sound of anger or hatred pls wen next u want to reply any post clear ur mind and talk with grace.

esmeralda1: frosbel:

I am going to inherit a new earth just like Peter said. smiley

"But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells." - 2 Peter 3:13

@frosbel i read some of ur comments on another thread n i tot this must be a good Bible scholar n a Child of God but wen i read ur above stmt infact i couldnt help laughing that its not only the catholics that needs prayers even u a jehovah witness does, then i find myself wishin u were not one, i pray im wrong about u being an ajeri.

Mr chukwudi44, i read sm of ur comments as well in a thread n d ones here it is well with u, you make me see that christains still need to do alot of prayer n evangelism,it is well.

@op,where mr chukwudi posted 1peter3:19-21 does NOT imply pugnatory o pls be not deceived there is nothing of sort, that place, implied to what Jesus did when He died n went to Hell to collect the keys of hades n grave from d devil, He did once n for all not again o pls be careful hw u quote n interprete d Bible.

Moreover, who even says we can understand the word of God without the Holyspirit, the nexttime u want to read ur Bible pls pray for the Holyspirit to interprete it to you.
God bless you

quotable

esmeralda1: @ syncan, i,ve been tryin to quote ur post but i dont understand y its not going. Pride? what pride, wot am i proud about, Pride is far from it dear, i was not even talkin to frosbel about that. i said WE, even me needs the Holy Spirit for interpretation of the Bible n many other things in my life.
Mr syncan ur words sound of anger or hatred pls wen next u want to reply any post clear ur mind and talk with grace.

esmeralda1: @ syncan, i,ve been tryin to quote ur post but i dont understand y its not going. Pride? what pride, wot am i proud about, Pride is far from it dear, i was not even talkin to frosbel about that. i said WE, even me needs the Holy Spirit for interpretation of the Bible n many other things in my life.
Mr syncan ur words sound of anger or hatred pls wen next u want to reply any post clear ur mind and talk with grace.

Hahaha, anger or hatred for syncan? that's a new one. Did you take a look at your words addressed to frosbel? Did you even try to dispute his claim? You simply expressed disappointment, hence he is not being led by the Holy spirit in your view( concluded). My words are an admonision to you, to make your contribution for the edification of all, and not to term people those needing evangelization. I have many posts on this forum, they may help you know my mien.

That said, if you still feel offended, then I am sorry, it wasn't intended.

esmeralda1: @ syncan, i,ve been tryin to quote ur post but i dont understand y its not going. Pride? what pride, wot am i proud about, Pride is far from it dear, i was not even talkin to frosbel about that. i said WE, even me needs the Holy Spirit for interpretation of the Bible n many other things in my life.
Mr syncan ur words sound of anger or hatred pls wen next u want to reply any post clear ur mind and talk with grace.

Hahaha, anger or hatred for syncan? that's a new one. Did you take a look at your words addressed to frosbel? Did you even try to dispute his claim? Nor chukwudi's. You simply expressed disappointment, hence he is not being led by the Holy spirit in your view( concluded). My words are an admonision to you, to make your contribution for the edification of all, and not to term people those needing evangelization. I have many posts on this forum, they may help you know my mien.

That said, if you still feel offended, then I am sorry, it wasn't intended.

italo: Purgatory

Pardon me to ignore ur initial questions for a reason to help me understand some basics about ur opinion on purgatory!
Pls help me with these basic questions!

1. Which class of Christians or sinners are qualified for purgatory?

2. For how long is one expected to be in purgatory?

3. What are those things one does in purgatory to ensure his remaining sins are cleansed? Or is it d relation on earth that will pray him out while he does nothing in Purgatory?

4. Can some1 still go to hell even after been to purgatory? That is; is every1 that goes to purgatory always washed of all his sins to go to heaven?

5. Is purgatory equivalent to Judgement? Or At what point is purgatory? b4 or after judgement?

If u can back ur answers with biblical quotations that will be fine!
Thanks.

esmeralda1: frosbel:

I am going to inherit a new earth just like Peter said. smiley

"But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells." - 2 Peter 3:13

@frosbel i read some of ur comments on another thread n i tot this must be a good Bible scholar n a Child of God but wen i read ur above stmt infact i couldnt help laughing that its not only the catholics that needs prayers even u a jehovah witness does, then i find myself wishin u were not one, i pray im wrong about u being an ajeri.

Mr chukwudi44, i read sm of ur comments as well in a thread n d ones here it is well with u, you make me see that christains still need to do alot of prayer n evangelism,it is well.

@op,where mr chukwudi posted 1peter3:19-21 does NOT imply pugnatory o pls be not deceived there is nothing of sort, that place, implied to what Jesus did when He died n went to Hell to collect the keys of hades n grave from d devil, He did once n for all not again o pls be careful hw u quote n interprete d Bible.

Moreover, who even says we can understand the word of God without the Holyspirit, the nexttime u want to read ur Bible pls pray for the Holyspirit to interprete it to you.
God bless you

Do you mind giving your interpretation of 1 Peter 3:19-21 and 1 pet 4:6 ? Kindly explain why Jesus went to preach the good news to those who who were in 'prison'.Those who died during the time of noah.Also explain 1 cor 15:29

Sirgen05:
Pardon me to ignore ur initial questions for a reason to help me understand some basics about ur opinion on purgatory!
Pls help me with these basic questions!

1. Which class of Christians or sinners are qualified for purgatory?

Those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

Sirgen05:
2. For how long is one expected to be in purgatory?

The longest possible time is the time between Particular Judgement and Final Judgement.

Sirgen05:
3. What are those things one does in purgatory to ensure his remaining sins are cleansed? Or is it d relation on earth that will pray him out while he does nothing in Purgatory?

His remaining (venial) sins will be cleansed regardless but the faithful on earth (not just blood relatives) can help shorten the time of purgation with their prayers and sacrifices. The Catholic Church is one big family that transcends this life. The saints in heaven, the souls in purgatory and we on earth are all part of the Church.

Sirgen05:
4. Can some1 still go to hell even after been to purgatory? That is; is every1 that goes to purgatory always washed of all his sins to go to heaven?

Everyone in purgatory will eventually go to heaven.

Sirgen05:
5. Is purgatory equivalent to Judgement? Or At what point is purgatory? b4 or after judgement?

Immediately after particular judgement, the saved will either go straight into heaven or will first go to purgatory to be cleansed before they can enter heaven...while the damned will go into immediate and eternal punishment.

Sirgen05:
If u can back ur answers with biblical quotations that will be fine!
Thanks.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.. Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus?

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the "prison." These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory.

Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

I hope you can answer my questions now.

Sirgen05:
Pardon me to ignore ur initial questions for a reason to help me understand some basics about ur opinion on purgatory!
Pls help me with these basic questions!

1. Which class of Christians or sinners are qualified for purgatory?

2. For how long is one expected to be in purgatory?

3. What are those things one does in purgatory to ensure his remaining sins are cleansed? Or is it d relation on earth that will pray him out while he does nothing in Purgatory?

4. Can some1 still go to hell even after been to purgatory? That is; is every1 that goes to purgatory always washed of all his sins to go to heaven?

5. Is purgatory equivalent to Judgement? Or At what point is purgatory? b4 or after judgement?

If u can back ur answers with biblical, quotations that will be fine!
Thanks.

1. Christians who died while still having in them, sins that do not lead to death (1jn5:17).

2. Until one is completely purged/purified as by fire, (1cor3:15).

3. They suffer,make atonement until the last debt is paid (Matt5:26). Penalty depends on the Judge God, just as in the case of hell.

4. Every soul with a sin that leads to death shall be destroyed(hell). Those who go there are to be saved, yet so as by fire. They are hitherto just souls, but need to be made perfect(Heb12:23). We are often with imperfections even as good christians. But nothing unclean will enter heaven(Rev21:27).

5. After judgement (1cor3:13). Note that the two final destinations remain heaven and hell. Those who pass through purgation/purification are already heaven bound.

God bless you.

[center]

italo: 1 Cor 3:15

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Can someone tell me where a man will suffer loss, yet be saved as one escaping through the flames?

Is it heaven? There is no loss or fire in heaven.

Is it hell? No one will be saved in hell.

If it is not purgatory, where is it?

Thanks for the answers to my questions!

Those who understood Eschatology very well will agree with me that this reward will take place during the 7yrs of AntiChrist reign, i.e after the rapture! And only the saints are qualified for this reward we are talking about.
During that reward, the works done are judged based on the motives behind the works, or whether there are done in righteousness if not no award - which means burnt up hence likened to hay, straw or stubble, easily burnt. But the person will be saved(delivered) from eternal death! Works from right motives & righteous heart are likened to Gold or Silver which cannot be burnt!
The use of fire here does not mean fire of hell or purgatory as u claimed, but a form of comparison hence the use of the word 'as' in the passage!

So, my dear the reward is not in hell nor in purgatory, but at the Bema seat of Christ. And note the use of 'fire', 'hay', 'stubble', 'wood', 'silver', and 'gold' in this chapter are just for comparison and not real!

The believe in purgatory lessen the stings of sin and the terror of hell. Plsssss dear, sins not taken care of here on earth will end the sinner in hell. No amount of penance will suffice!
Thanks and God bless you!

@ Sirgen05, i dont know if you realise that these are the questions i wanted you to answer

italo:

So from the above and your previous post, it means that if I render a service to God e.g clean up the Church, while still engaging in immorality e.g homosexuality, I will receive no reward but go to heaven?

*note that St Paul makes no mention of confession of sins*

I disagree.


I have already done so.


So according to your theology, what happens to fornicators who turn many to righteousness?

Will they receive the reward Daniel speaks of or will suffer the loss Paul speaks of?


What is my belief and how does this statement contradict it?


My question to you was:
What other loss can one suffer after judgement, yet be saved...other than purgatory?

Please answer that before you start to deviate?

Sirgen05: [center]

Thanks for the answers to my questions!

Those who understood Eschatology very well will agree with me that this reward will take place during the 7yrs of AntiChrist reign, i.e after the rapture! And only the saints are qualified for this reward we are talking about.
During that reward, the works done are judged based on the motives behind the works, or whether there are done in righteousness if not no award - which means burnt up hence likened to hay, straw or stubble, easily burnt. But the person will be saved(delivered) from eternal death! Works from right motives & righteous heart are likened to Gold or Silver which cannot be burnt!
The use of fire here does not mean fire of hell or purgatory as u claimed, but a form of comparison hence the use of the word 'as' in the passage!

So, my dear the reward is not in hell nor in purgatory, but at the Bema seat of Christ. And note the use of 'fire', 'hay', 'stubble', 'wood', 'silver', and 'gold' in this chapter are just for comparison and not real!

The believe in purgatory lessen the stings of sin and the terror of hell. Plsssss dear, sins not taken care of here on earth will end the sinner in hell. No amount of penance will suffice!
Thanks and God bless you!

You say those who do works in 'unrighteousness' will go to heaven.

Then you say any sin not taken care of will land the sinner in hell.

Is unrighteousness not sin?

What do you actually believe?

Will a fornicator who does works go to heaven or hell?

Sirgen05: [center]

Thanks for the answers to my questions!

Those who understood Eschatology very well will agree with me that this reward will take place during the 7yrs of AntiChrist reign, i.e after the rapture! And only the saints are qualified for this reward we are talking about.
During that reward, the works done are judged based on the motives behind the works, or whether there are done in righteousness if not no award - which means burnt up hence likened to hay, straw or stubble, easily burnt. But the person will be saved(delivered) from eternal death! Works from right motives & righteous heart are likened to Gold or Silver which cannot be burnt!
The use of fire here does not mean fire of hell or purgatory as u claimed, but a form of comparison hence the use of the word 'as' in the passage!

So, my dear the reward is not in hell nor in purgatory, but at the Bema seat of Christ. And note the use of 'fire', 'hay', 'stubble', 'wood', 'silver', and 'gold' in this chapter are just for comparison and not real!

The believe in purgatory lessen the stings of sin and the terror of hell. Plsssss dear, sins not taken care of here on earth will end the sinner in hell. No amount of penance will suffice!
Thanks and God bless you!

You say those who do works in 'unrighteousness' will go to heaven.

Then you say any sin not taken care of will land the sinner in hell.

Is unrighteousness not sin?

What do you actually believe?

Will a fornicator who does works go to heaven or hell?

italo:

You say those who do works in 'unrighteousness' will go to heaven.

Then you say any sin not taken care of will land the sinner in hell.

Is unrighteousness not sin?

What do you actually believe?

Will a fornicator who does works go to heaven or hell?

NO UNRIGHTEOUS PERSON WILL GO TO HEAVEN:

Now see what I meant. While a Christian is on earth, and he commits sin but did not confess it, all good works done then are counted unrighteous. If he dies without confessing the sins, certainly he will go to hell! But if while still living he confesses his sins, may be few days after the sin (while still alive) and maintain his righteousness, he'll go to heaven and all works done after confession is counted as gold and not burnt. But those done in those few days of unconfessed state, are hay, stubble and wood, will be burnt. But cos he later confessed he'll make heaven and receive rewards for good works done thereafter!

A born again child of God who backslides and become a fornicator, if he dies without restoration to Christ, will go to hell and good works done while a Christian a waste. But if he repents and forgiven while alive, all good things done while in backslidden state will be hay and wood and be burnt. But cos he later repented he will be delivered from eternal death!

Thanks. God bless u!

italo:

You say those who do works in 'unrighteousness' will go to heaven.

Then you say any sin not taken care of will land the sinner in hell.

Is unrighteousness not sin?

What do you actually believe?

Will a fornicator who does works go to heaven or hell?

TAKE NOTE PLS.
We have two types of salvations! Only those who partook in d 1st will be in 2nd.
1st is the Salvation from Sin while on earth. When we repent of our sins we are saved by Faith.

2nd is Ultimate Salvation. That is salvation from this world of sin, sickness, satan, temptation, sufferings etc. We'll still experience sickness, satan's attack etc while we ar on the 1st salvation. But the 2nd which is when Christ shall come to give us a new celestial body without sickness, pain, suffering etc.

italo: @ Sirgen05, i dont know if you realise that these are the questions i wanted you to answer

I'll answer u when I come back from church. Thanks a lot.

esmeralda1: frosbel:

I am going to inherit a new earth just like Peter said. smiley

"But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells." - 2 Peter 3:13

@frosbel i read some of ur comments on another thread n i tot this must be a good Bible scholar n a Child of God but wen i read ur above stmt infact i couldnt help laughing that its not only the catholics that needs prayers even u a jehovah witness does, then i find myself wishin u were not one, i pray im wrong about u being an ajeri.

Mr chukwudi44, i read sm of ur comments as well in a thread n d ones here it is well with u, you make me see that christains still need to do alot of prayer n evangelism,it is well.

@op,where mr chukwudi posted 1peter3:19-21 does NOT imply pugnatory o pls be not deceived there is nothing of sort, that place, implied to what Jesus did when He died n went to Hell to collect the keys of hades n grave from d devil, He did once n for all not again o pls be careful hw u quote n interprete d Bible.

Moreover, who even says we can understand the word of God without the Holyspirit, the nexttime u want to read ur Bible pls pray for the Holyspirit to interprete it to you.
God bless you

i really think that u are the one who needs prayers..the holy thou attitude which u and ur protestant brothers display will only lead you to hell while the humble catholics and the jehova witness that u take to be sinners makkes heaven or paradise

italo:
My question to you was:
What other loss can one suffer after judgement, yet be saved...other than purgatory?

Very simple answer!
It's the loss of reward if rendered in sins.
Check my posts above to get what i mean by rendered in sin and the case of the backslider.

'AND YET BE SAVED' ?

Yes, as the case of the backslider I mentioned in previous post. Check up!

The judgement being refer to here is that of Bema seat of Christ which only the saints participate in and only their works not sin are judged. Remember every child of God sins are judged & washed at confession and Repentance!

'SUFFER LOSS AFTER JUDGEMENT AND YET BE SAVED'!

Yes. He suffer loss of judgement at the Bema seat by losing his reward. Yet saved(delivered) from eternal punishment.
Check my previous post on two types of salvations. This saint at Bema seat of Christ already has the 1st. But here he is saved or delivered from eternal punishment.

Thanks. God bless you!

@sirgen05,

You say that sins cannot be forgiven after death but Jesus provides that sins there are sins that can be forgiven in the afterlife.

Just look at all the scriptural back I gave you which you havent said a word about.

Lol. my Catholic brothers. I just pray u don't allow these believe mislead you. the Bible mentioned the word heaven n hell clearly. Why is this one not mentioned.

glamoureze: Lol. my Catholic brothers. I just pray u don't allow these believe mislead you. the Bible mentioned the word heaven n hell clearly. Why is this one not mentioned.

Do you really want to know the truth...or do you just want to win the Catholics in argument?

If you just want to win, we will gladly concede the trophy to you...but if you want the truth...