Sheykul Islam: "you can drink water if the you cannot withstand such fasting". I hope ibn taymiyyah's students are reading this thread

amazing! how ignorant can people get because of blind hatred? so even the founder of salafism has the same ruling?!!!

Zhul-fiqar:


people have come to realize the truth on the topic in spite that the op opened this thread to vilify the Shia.so in order to continue the nonsense,you want to derail the thread.

why did you not copy all that was said in that thread? why only pick out few verses of the bible to accuse Muslims of being "pagan"? what does mourning have to do in this thread? there is no problem because I will still catch you and beat you with your point.that is evidence that Wahhabis/salafists have no aqeedah.

so when Aisha is reported to have beaten herself, she was doing acts of "pagan background", right? or is it only "pagan" if the Shia does it? please enlighten us :

al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawala):

Abbas narrates:
“I heard Ayesha saying “The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women”.

and of course,there is also acts of "pagan background" found in the Holy Quran (astaghfirullah),according to the words of Mr.Wahhabi who does not know the Quran and does not know Islam but only sentiments:

“Then came forward his wife in grief, she smote her face and said (what! I) An old barren woman?”
Quran 51:29

this is called: KNOCK-OUT PUNCH!!!

where is Vedaxcool, Betathings cheerleader?

Zhul-fiqar:


people have come to realize the truth on the topic in spite that the op opened this thread to vilify the Shia.so in order to continue the nonsense,you want to derail the thread.

The truth is that
- If one is sick, he postpones fasting till he recovers
- If one can only fast with difficulty, he gives up fasting and feeds people etc
As for drinking water while claiming to be fasting, it is going against the words of the Prophet (SAW). Only Shias have the nerve to do that
People were sick during the time of the Prophet (SAW), He (SAW) lived with people in the hot desert etc.Enough Said

Zhul-fiqar:

why did you not copy all that was said in that thread? why only pick out few verses of the bible to accuse Muslims of being "pagan"? what does mourning have to do in this thread? there is no problem because I will still catch you and beat you with your point.that is evidence that Wahhabis/salafists have no aqeedah.

I sincerely did not intend to derail but SHias claim that Sunni do stuff steeped in paganism

The Emblem of Iran (Persian: نشان رسمی ایران‎) since the 1979 Iranian Revolution features a stylized Perso-Arabic script of the Arabic word Allah ("God".

The logo consists of four crescents and a sword. The four crescents are meant to stand for the word Allah. The five parts of the emblem symbolize the Principles of the Religion. Above the sword is a shadda: in Arabic script, this is used to double a letter. The shape of the emblem is chosen to resemble a tulip, for the memory of the people who died for Iran: it is an ancient belief in Iran, dating back to mythology, that if a young soldier dies patriotically a red tulip will grow on his grave. In recent years it has been considered the symbol of martyrdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Iran
We know that Iran claims to be an Islamic Republic. It is the bastion of Shiism today

This video say that Shiism has similarities with Christianity and Hinduism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwLbizb1XMU

Zhul-fiqar:

so when Aisha is reported to have beaten herself, she was doing acts of "pagan background", right? or is it only "pagan" if the Shia does it? please enlighten us :

al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawala):

Abbas narrates:
“I heard Ayesha saying “The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women”.

Shia claim taraweeh is bidah because the Prophet (SAW) stopped doing it but Umar (RA) revived it
Sunnis believe that the reason given by the Prophet (SAW) for discontinuing taraweeh (that Allah could make it compulsory through a revelation - which was accessible only to the Prophet (SAW) - no longer existed after his (SAW) death

Now Shias are ready to change tack on this matter because they need to just lash themselves
Yet the Prophet (SAW) specifically prohibited that practice of Jahiliyah

“He is not one of us who strikes his cheeks, rends his garment, or cries with the cry of the Jaahiliyyah.”

(Bukhari and Muslim)
Sunjnis take and reject from ANYONE - ANYONE (including Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, ALi (RAA) - APART from the Prophet (SAW)
Only the Prophet (SAW) is the once whose guidance is final

It is interesting that Shias are taking their deen from Ayesha (RA) whom they
- declare a kafir
- joyfully claim is in hellfire
- curse daily along with her father - Abu Bakr (RA)
- say would be resurrected and lashed by the Mahdi during the Rajah
So would you emulate Ayesha (RA) in this and ignore the hadeeth prohibiting that ritual
BTW a sidepoint, Tabari (May Allah have mercy on him) is a collector, not a critical grader of ahadeeth - his work is for scholars. Not everything in it is authentic

Zhul-fiqar:

and of course,there is also acts of "pagan background" found in the Holy Quran (astaghfirullah),according to the words of Mr.Wahhabi who does not know the Quran and does not know Islam but only sentiments:

“Then came forward his wife in grief, she smote her face and said (what! I) An old barren woman?”
Quran 51:29

It gets worse. So we ignore the shareeah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and go back to practices before he (SAW) was given his shareeah
Sorry Sir, after the Prophet (SAW) came, we can no longer do certain things allowed in the past
You sir can no longer allow your children marry each other even though it was allowed to Prophet Adam (AS)
Please let us stop justifying paganism

students of ibn saba never seem to amaze, they look up to Aisha r.a to validate their ignorance and distort ibn taymiyyah, they seem hell bent on re-enacting paganism by means necessary.

BetaThings:
The truth is that
- If one is sick, he postpones fasting till he recovers
- If one can only fast with difficulty, he gives up fasting and feeds people etc
As for drinking water while claiming to be fasting, it is going against the words of the Prophet (SAW). Only Shias have the nerve to do that
People were sick during the time of the Prophet (SAW), He (SAW) lived with people in the hot desert etc.Enough Said



I sincerely did not intend to derail but SHias claim that Sunni do stuff steeped in paganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Iran
We know that Iran claims to be an Islamic Republic. It is the bastion of Shiism today

This video say that Shiism has similarities with Christianity and Hinduism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwLbizb1XMU



Shia claim taraweeh is bidah because the Prophet (SAW) stopped doing it but Umar (RA) revived it
Sunnis believe that the reason given by the Prophet (SAW) for discontinuing taraweeh (that Allah could make it compulsory through a revelation - which was accessible only to the Prophet (SAW) - no longer existed after his (SAW) death

Now Shias are ready to change tack on this matter because they need to just lash themselves
Yet the Prophet (SAW) specifically prohibited that practice of Jahiliyah
(Bukhari and Muslim)
Sunjnis take and reject from ANYONE - ANYONE (including Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, ALi (RAA) - APART from the Prophet (SAW)
Only the Prophet (SAW) is the once whose guidance is final

It is interesting that Shias are taking their deen from Ayesha (RA) whom they
- declare a kafir
- joyfully claim is in hellfire
- curse daily along with her father - Abu Bakr (RA)
- say would be resurrected and lashed by the Mahdi during the Rajah
So would you emulate Ayesha (RA) in this and ignore the hadeeth prohibiting that ritual
BTW a sidepoint, Tabari (May Allah have mercy on him) is a collector, not a critical grader of ahadeeth - his work is for scholars. Not everything in it is authentic


It gets worse. So we ignore the shareeah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and go back to practices before he (SAW) was given his shareeah
Sorry Sir, after the Prophet (SAW) came, we can no longer do certain things allowed in the past
You sir can no longer allow your children marry each other even though it was allowed to Prophet Adam (AS)
Please let us stop justifying paganism

Just when rafidi found a justification to paganism, betathings came along and cleared his eyes

@BetaThing

the pile of rubbish you post is so clear that you on your own cannot think through and separate truth from falsehood.keep depending on lies and nonsense of Wahhabi propagandists on youtube and you'd be blind forever and full of hate that others would view you as a non-living creature that does not think!!!

since religion to you is a competitive game with the Shia,i am glad to inform you that I have roped you and beaten you again severely.i brought out evidence showing your almighty Aisha in hadith and Lady Sarah (as) in the Quran hitting themselves to express grief.so your point became we do not follow Aisha but only the examples of the Prophet (sa), and we do not follow Sarah because she follows a previous shariah.ok here is the Prophet (s) in your almighty "Sahih" Bukhari hitting himself:

Narrated ‘Ali bin Abi Talib:
That Allah’s Apostle came to him and Fatima the daughter of Allah’s Apostle at their house at night and said, “Won’t you pray?” ‘Ali replied, “O Allah’s Apostle! Our souls are in the Hands of Allah and when he wants us to get up, He makes us get up.” When ‘Ali said that to him, Allah’s Apostle left without saying anything to him. While the Prophet was leaving, ‘Ali heard him striking his thigh (with his hand) and saying, “But man is quarrelsome more than anything else.” (18.54)

Ibn Hajr Asqalani-the Nasibi scholar- in the commentary of this tradition in Fatah al Bari, Volume 3 page 11 writes:

قوله يضرب فخذه فيه جواز ضرب الفخذ عند التأسف

“His statement ‘striking his thigh’ shows the permission of striking the thigh to express the grief”

"Sunnah" is what the Prophet (s) did.therefore I put it unto you that hitting oneself to express grief is a Sunnah because the Prophet (s) did just that.or do you want to tell me the Prophet (s) is also following "paganism" (astaghfirullah)?

you Wahhabis/salafists are like Iblis. Allah (swt) told iblis to bow down to Adam (as),iblis replied that Adam (as) is a created creature from clay and he is better than Adam (as).perhaps iblis just like Wahhabis/salafists were following "pure tawheed".now tell us what you think about the Prophet (s) hitting himself.

now that we are done with the topic,and even the father of salafism ibn taymiyyah has a similar fatwa permitting drinking water during fast in special circumstances,the Wahhabi wannabes want to derail the thread because they feel bitter and beaten.

Zhul-fiqar:
@BetaThing
since religion to you is a competitive game with the Shia,

I am not in a competitive game with you. I belive that Shias are misguided. But how will that help me to get to Jannah which is my focus
It will not
I am better off being able to say in Jannah (may Allah make me its abode) that I used to debate hotly with ZhulFiqar by Alhamdu Li Llah, he saw the light

Zhul-fiqar:
i am glad to inform you that I have roped you and beaten you again severely.i brought out evidence showing your almighty Aisha in hadith and Lady Sarah (as) in the Quran hitting themselves to express grief.so your point became we do not follow Aisha but only the examples of the Prophet (sa),:

Roping and beating is not my aim. Not at all

Zhul-fiqar:
and we do not follow Sarah because she follows a previous shariah.ok here is the Prophet (s) in your almighty "Sahih" Bukhari hitting himself:

Alhamdu Li Llah that you have admitted that we only take our deen from the Prophet (SAW) and not past prophets (AS)

Zhul-fiqar:

Narrated ‘Ali bin Abi Talib:
That Allah’s Apostle came to him and Fatima the daughter of Allah’s Apostle at their house at night and said, “Won’t you pray?” ‘Ali replied, “O Allah’s Apostle! Our souls are in the Hands of Allah and when he wants us to get up, He makes us get up.” When ‘Ali said that to him, Allah’s Apostle left without saying anything to him. While the Prophet was leaving, ‘Ali heard him striking his thigh (with his hand) and saying, “But man is quarrelsome more than anything else.” (18.54)

Ibn Hajr Asqalani-the Nasibi scholar- in the commentary of this tradition in Fatah al Bari, Volume 3 page 11 writes:

قوله يضرب فخذه فيه جواز ضرب الفخذ عند التأسف

“His statement ‘striking his thigh’ shows the permission of striking the thigh to express the grief”

"Sunnah" is what the Prophet (s) did.therefore I put it unto you that hitting oneself to express grief is a Sunnah because the Prophet (s) did just that.or do you want to tell me the Prophet (s) is also following "paganism" (astaghfirullah)?

No! Don't put it to me.
Put it to Zhul-Fiqar and Ayatollah Khamenei

Does Islam change everyday? Does your position change everyday?
See below what you wrote in 2012. You wanted me to listen then
Now you have changed your position and you still want me to listen

Zhul-fiqar:
The majority of the Ayatollahs of Shia Muslims including Ayatollah Ali Khamanei,forbid flaggellating oneself because harming the body is forbidden Islamically.

But these people don't listen because they are lay people.when we feel moved by the narration of Imam Hussein (as), we cry; and when crying isn't enough the lay people do these things which are more of tradition than religion.
.

http://www.jafariyanews.com/2k8_news/jan/14tatbeer_khamenei.htm

TEHRAN, Iran: Supreme leader of Iran Ayatullah Ali Al-Khamenei has said Tatbeer, or Qama-zeni (making a cut on head to gush out blood to signify grief on the martyrdom of Hazret Imam Hosein, peace be on him) is not permissible.

Speaking to a gathering of religious scholars, speakers of Hoseini pulpit and people of the holy city of Qom, the Ayatullah said: “iin mokhalefat ba azadari neest, mokhalefat ba zaya kerdan azadari ast…” [This opposition is not of azadari but of wasting azadari (Hoseini mourning)].

According to Imam Malik, we can take and reject from anyone - Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, the mothers of the believers -apart from the Prophet (SAW)
Only the Prophet of Allah (SAW) is the one whose position we cannot reject
This is what the Prophet (SAW) said and I stand by it

“He is not one of us who strikes his cheeks, rends his garment, or cries with the cry of the Jaahiliyyah.”

(Bukhari and Muslim)

Zhul-fiqar:
you Wahhabis/salafists are like Iblis. Allah (swt) told iblis to bow down to Adam (as),iblis replied that Adam (as) is a created creature from clay and he is better than Adam (as).perhaps iblis just like Wahhabis/salafists were following "pure tawheed".now tell us what you think about the Prophet (s) hitting himself.

Do you really want to bring what Shias say about the relationship between Iblees and Ali ibn Talib (RA) onto this thread
Be careful.

BetaThings:

I am not in a competitive game with you. I belive that Shias are misguided. But how will that help me to get to Jannah which is my focus
It will not
I am better off being able to say in Jannah (may Allah make me its abode) that I used to debate hotly with ZhulFiqar by Alhamdu Li Llah, he saw the light


Roping and beating is not my aim. Not at all


Alhamdu Li Llah that you have admitted that we only take our deen from the Prophet (SAW) and not past prophets (AS)



No! Don't put it to me.
Put it to Zhul-Fiqar and Ayatollah Khamenei

Does Islam change everyday? Does your position change everyday?
See below what you wrote in 2012. You wanted me to listen then
Now you have changed your position and you still want me to listen


http://www.jafariyanews.com/2k8_news/jan/14tatbeer_khamenei.htm



According to Imam Malik, we can take and reject from anyone - Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, the mothers of the believers -apart from the Prophet (SAW)
Only the Prophet of Allah (SAW) is the one whose position we cannot reject
This is what the Prophet (SAW) said and I stand by it

(Bukhari and Muslim)

there is a big difference between hitting your chest or thigh as a sign of grief,and cutting yourself inflicting injury which is forbidden. you are mixing things up.

Do you really want to bring what Shias say about the relationship between Iblees and Ali ibn Talib (RA) onto this thread
Be careful.

please do.expose yourself.

Zhul-fiqar:


there is a big difference between hitting your chest or thigh as a sign of grief,and cutting yourself inflicting injury which is forbidden. you are mixing things up.

I agree there is a difference between bloodletting and blunt blows
But both are forbidden by the Prophet of Allah (SAW)

“He is not one of us who strikes his cheeks, rends his garment, or cries with the cry of the Jaahiliyyah.”

(Bukhari and Muslim)

Zhul-fiqar:

please do.expose yourself.

Enough for today - you have contradicted yourself and I have pointed it out
This is a religious matter. I don't need to gloat
But I am satisfied with the progress made today = that you can cite the name of Aisha as a role model
Insha Allah, the day to clear the name of Aliu ibn Talib (RA) of the unfortunate and unfair allegation of the Shia draws closer
But my overriding dua is that you come round

BetaThings:

I agree there is a difference between bloodletting and blunt blows
But both are forbidden by the Prophet of Allah (SAW)


(Bukhari and Muslim)


Enough for today - you have contradicted yourself and I have pointed it out
This is a religious matter. I don't need to gloat
But I am satisfied with the progress made today = that you can cite the name of Aisha as a role model
Insha Allah, the day to clear the name of Aliu ibn Talib (RA) of the unfortunate and unfair allegation of the Shia draws closer

you should stop contradicting yourself.

tell us what the hadith about jahiliyyah means.it doesn't make sense that the Prophet (s) would forbid something that he is recorded in the very bukhari to have done.

NB: As for Aisha I cited her because she is your role model and not mine.it is also a great progress that you implicitly accused her of following "jahiliyyah paganism".

Zhul-fiqar:


you should stop contradicting yourself.

tell us what the hadith about jahiliyyah means.it doesn't make sense that the Prophet (s) would forbid something that he is recorded in the very bukhari to have done.]

Please when we have ahadeeth that might apparently be in conflict.
There are ways of reconciling them
But an explicit prohibition takes precedence over what people observe
But your position of last year is different from this year's - but it is not an issue
I used the hadeeth last year and I remain on it

Zhul-fiqar:

NB: As for Aisha I cited her because she is your role model and not mine.it is also a great progress that you implicitly accused her of following "jahiliyyah paganism".

Of course she is my role model and my mother - Alhamdu li Llah, I am a Muslim
But like any human being she can err. I don't even have time for takhreej now

I don't see progress in saying somebody is following jahiliyyah. That is not my aqeedah
I would like to really see the good in people, not their errors
You will see that I don't gloat, rope people in or use the words rubbish or say people don't think

I have said I don't even want to do takhreej of that hadeeth or the one you brought
But the Shias don't do what they do out of some spontaneous emotion. It is premeditated
Big difference
True progress is when you can disagree without resorting to such indulgence

BetaThings:

Please when we have ahadeeth that might apparently be in conflict.
There are ways of reconciling them
But an explicit prohibition takes precedence over what people observe
But your position of last year is different from this year's - but it is not an issue
I used the hadeeth last year and I remain on it

please what is the difference. i'd like to know because I am open to learning everyday.and I do not claim perfection.

it is a serious thing when you say something is "pagan" and the Prophet (s) is recorded to have done it.it is not a simple matter of prohibition.it is either hitting oneself in grief is pagan or it is allowed in islam.then explain to us what the pagans of jahiliyyah used to do that made the Prophet (s) utter the statement he made.for a hint,they used to insult Allah (swt) in wailing when they grief.

it is the same thing about "grave worship".if you look at the graves of our Imams,they are level to the ground.wahhabis think the "dhareeh" (outter fencing protecting the graves) are structures on the grave we worship.truth is the graves within the outter protecting structure are level as the Prophet (s) ordered.and the graves of the Christians and jews used to be themselves made in the form of housing which the Prophet (s) prohibited.you need to not be superficial.





COMPARE:

Of course she is my role model and my mother - Alhamdu li Llah, I am a Muslim
But like any human being she can err. I don't even have time for takhreej now

so if Aisha who you implicitly accused of "paganism" can still qualify for a role model,why do you have problem with the Shia? cant they also "err" going by your argument? someone that does pagan acts is no role model for a muslim.

@Betathing

“He is not one of us who strikes his cheeks, rends his garment, or cries with the cry of the Jaahiliyyah.”

the above says nothing about hitting one's chest or thigh if we are to assume the hadith is sound.our mourning is not the "cries of jahiliyyah".we need to identify first what was described as "cries of jahiliyyah" to know if it is the same thing we are doing.

that aside,the Prophet (s) is recorded to have mourned for his mother for 30 years even though Sunnis claim she was not a muslim!

also our motive behind marking the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) is not so that we can cry or beat ourselves to show grief.these are just means to highlight the injustice and oppression done to the Ahlul-Bayt (as) right from Saqifa Banu Saeda.in other words we are proving our position and justifying it as Shia for following the Ahlul-Bayt (as).the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) is the saddest that can portray how the Ahlul-Bayt (as) were treated after the death of the Prophet (s).Wahhabis do not object to ashura because we cry or what we do.it is because of what it stands for in the legacy of Imam Hussain (as) against the caliphate system that was usurped,and which would be restored by Imam Mahdi (aj).

Rafidi :


this is called: KNOCK-OUT PUNCH!!!

where is Vedaxcool, Betathings cheerleader?

Ya akhi,
Honestly we don't need to be like this guys with the ideology of WIN or LOSE dialogue. Forget about the fact that none of them is ever being sincere even to his self. With knowledge, ignorant is dead. All am after is the assessment of the third person who search for truth sincerely and the manners in which we conduct ourselves matters a lot.

Many of these brothers and sisters depend solely in "copy-pasting" from any so-called website. None of them even read whatever he posted and at the end they can't defend their so-called claim; then they do what they know how to do best: "derailing".
We can only justify who we are by replying and displaying knowledge with wisdom and good morals with strong argument. These are the ways of Aimmatu ahl al-bayt (a.s).

Besides you know how sober this sacred month is for the followers of ahl al-bayti Rasul.

May Allah forgive our shortcomings!
Allahuma shafa'atal Hussain Yaomal wurud!

Someone is sounding hurt! I wonder why?

Al-Baqir:


Ya akhi,
Honestly we don't need to be like this guys with the ideology of WIN or LOSE dialogue. Forget about the fact that none of them is ever being sincere even to his self. With knowledge, ignorant is dead. All am after is the assessment of the third person who search for truth sincerely and the manners in which we conduct ourselves matters a lot.

Many of these brothers and sisters depend solely in "copy-pasting" from any so-called website. None of them even read whatever he posted and at the end they can't defend their so-called claim; then they do what they know how to do best: "derailing".
We can only justify who we are by replying and displaying knowledge with wisdom and good morals with strong argument. These are the ways of Aimmatu ahl al-bayt (a.s).

Besides you know how sober this sacred month is for the followers of ahl al-bayti Rasul.

May Allah forgive our shortcomings!
Allahuma shafa'atal Hussain Yaomal wurud!

apologies my brother for descending to their level.but sometimes its just a reaction to unveil their position.

The disbisbelievers are guardians and protectors over one another, if u (believers) are not going to do the same, there wud be great fitnah- that's somewhere in d quran, forgive me for not being able to provide references.
My points are:
1) Whether or not the fatwa is valid to the ummah depends on the "scholars", on our own level we can only "decide" which fatwa to apply. Hence it is futile to Treat pple on a different school of thought as kufar
2) Bad manners/conducts destroy good deeds. It doesn't matter ow much good and sound knowledge a person has, but if u don't "present" it well with the right impression it won't be effective.
I av more to say, but I am too lazy to write any more........masalam

Shia Ayatollah Issues Fatwa Permitting The Drinking Of Water During FASTING

Am I seeing something or missing something here?

Rafidi :


apologies my brother for descending to their level.but sometimes its just a reaction to unveil their position.

Level? I have made it clear that I am not interested in any competitive game. I don't gloat etc

BetaThings:
I am not in a competitive game with you. I believe that Shias are misguided. But how will that help me to get to Jannah which is my focus
It will not
I am better off being able to say in Jannah (may Allah make me its abode) that I used to debate hotly with ZhulFiqar but Alhamdu Li Llah, he saw the light
Roping and beating is not my aim. Not at all

I am not interested in name calling. I just want to make jannah and by Allah, I would be a very very happy person if as many people as I can reach can make it. I can NEVER rejoice that anybody is going to hell. That will not benefit me in the least

BetaThings:

Level? I have made it clear that I am not interested in any competitive game. I don't gloat etc


I am not interested in name calling. I just want to make jannah and by Allah, I would be a very very happy person if as many people as I can reach can make it. I can NEVER rejoice that anybody is going to hell. That will not benefit me in the least

Allah (swt) has made jannah forbidden to the killers/enemies of the Ahlul-Bayt (as), and their followers.

Rafidi :
@Betathing


the above says nothing about hitting one's chest or thigh if we are to assume the hadith is sound.our mourning is not the "cries of jahiliyyah".we need to identify first what was described as "cries of jahiliyyah" to know if it is the same thing we are doing.

that aside,the Prophet (s) is recorded to have mourned for his mother for 30 years even though Sunnis claim she was not a muslim!

also our motive behind marking the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) is not so that we can cry or beat ourselves to show grief.these are just means to highlight the injustice and oppression done to the Ahlul-Bayt (as) right from Saqifa Banu Saeda.in other words we are proving our position and justifying it as Shia for following the Ahlul-Bayt (as).the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) is the saddest that can portray how the Ahlul-Bayt (as) were treated after the death of the Prophet (s).Wahhabis do not object to ashura because we cry or what we do.it is because of what it stands for in the legacy of Imam Hussain (as) against the caliphate system that was usurped,and which would be restored by Imam Mahdi (aj).

Why is it so difficult for you guys to actually believe that no sane person would be happy at the killing of Hussain (RA) and his family. Novels that have tragic endings move me. I get very very angry at the unjustified killing of Nigerians by police (whether it is Apo 6 or the Apo near numerous). Why should I not be sad at the killing of muslims? And grandchildren of the Prophet (SAW) at that. One could imagine the courage required to stand up by Hussain (RA) and his family when surrounded by their killers. We can imagine the pain, the mental anguish etc
Our difference is the way you mourn, not why you mourn. When Summayah was killed in a fit of anger for clinging to tahweed in defiance of a despot, the Prophet (SAW) did not wail or beat himself. When Hamza (RA) was killed and multilated, the Prophet (SAW) did not mourn the way you do. And how long did mourn for?

So I cannot just accept that mode of mourning.

Rafidi :


Allah (swt) has made jannah forbidden to the killers/enemies of the Ahlul-Bayt (as), and their followers.

What will it cost us if we wait till the day of Qiyyamah? We can never design or conceive a more appropriate punishment than the one Allah will come up with
Shias like to refer to Khidr. His story tells us how poor our judgement of issues can be

BetaThings:

Why is it so difficult for you guys to actually believe that no sane person would be happy at the killing of Hussain (RA) and his family. Novels that have tragic endings move me. I get very very angry at the unjustified killing of Nigerians by police (whether it is Apo 6 or the Apo near numerous). Why should I not be sad at the killing of muslims? And grandchildren of the Prophet (SAW) at that. One could imagine the courage required to stand up by Hussain (RA) and his family when surrounded by their killers. We can imagine the pain, the mental anguish etc
Our difference is the way you mourn, not why you mourn. When Summayah was killed in a fit of anger for clinging to tahweed in defiance of a despot, the Prophet (SAW) did not wail or beat himself. When Hamza (RA) was killed and multilated, the Prophet (SAW) did not mourn the way you do. And how long did mourn for?

So I cannot just accept that mode of mourning.

ok,to summarize what you've just said:

"you accept the killing of the children of the Messenger of God is sad.but you cannot mark Ashura as a sad day or a day of grief as the Shia openly do/express,so that it doesn't appear you have endorsed the Shia who stand up for the Ahlul-Bayt (as).you don't want to surrender".

and how can this be described? you are blinded with ignorance mixed with extreme hatred and fanaticism.

whether you choose to beat yourself in grief (and I am sure references have already been stated that hitting oneself as expression of grief is sunnah),or you read the sirah of Imam Hussain (as) or you cry (which is also sunnah),or you do any act of good in honor of the Prophet's (s) blood that was spilled in Karbala,it makes no difference.let us all agree that Imam Hussain (as) deserve to be honored,remembered and his memory revived,and the sadness his killing stands for which we both agree on should be expressed.

both Sumayyah and Hamzah (as) were killed by kuffar.the kuffar are not trying to hide that Hamzah (as) was killed by the order of Hind (yazeed's grandmother) and his liver was eaten by her, like people who call themselves muslims try their best to make sure the tragedy of Karbala is forgotten and no one gets to know how the family of the Prophet (s) were literally beheaded in Karbala by so called "muslims".Hamzah (as) or Summaya (ra) were killed not by so called "muslims" acting on the order of the so called "caliph of the muslims",as Imam Hussain (as) and his household members were killed by Yazeed and his army.we do not let go or forget this incident because only remembering what happened in Karbala is enough to let every reasonable muslim with a heart to see where truth lies.you have one side who commemorates Imam Hussain (as) and believes in Imamate,and you have the other side which holds on to the caliphate of oppressors among whom was yazeed.truth and falsehood do not mix.if not for the Shia,tell me which Sunni group from Jakarta to Casablanca to Djibouti to Sarajevo that remembers who Imam Hussain (as) was and what he stood for? alas! many sunnis do not even know Imam Hussain (as) was the grandson of Prophet Muhammad (s),and yes you (want us to believe you) "love" the Ahlul-Bayt (as).ok,Allah (swt) will surely be the Judge on Qiyamah.