If you obey 9 commandments but break 1 which is the Sabbath, you are a law breaker. And this Sabbath has to be a Saturday not Sunday.

If you believe we are under the law of Moses then you should also reject the once saved always concept which suggests that we can sin and still be saved at the end.

Make up your minds.

I invite all sincere seekers of gospel truth to consider the questions raised on this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/1377135/unveilling-modern-day-judaizers

Thank you.

DrummaBoy: I invite all sincere seekers of gospel truth to consider the questions raised on this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/1377135/unveilling-modern-day-judaizers

Thank you.

Goshen's bottom-licker disciple

Galatians 5:4 says, "You have been brought to nought, separated from Christ, you who are being justified by law; you have fallen from grace." When the gospel of God was preached to Galatia, the people there heard it. After this, false prophets came to Galatia to preach the gospel. They did not change the first half of the gospel; they changed the second half. The first half said that man was saved only by trusting in Christ and receiving Christ. However, the second half said that before one believes in the Lord Jesus, he cannot have the righteousness from the law; but after one receives the Lord Jesus, he should have the righteousness of the law. Paul wrote the book of Galatians just to refute them. He argued that as a man cannot have the righteousness of the law while he is yet a sinner, in the same way, he cannot have the righteousness of the law after he is saved.The book of Romans says that while we are sinners, we cannot have the righteousness of the law. Galatians says that after a sinner is saved, he still cannot have the righteousness of the law. The subject of both books is not having the righteousness which is of the law. The one taught that after a man has believed in Christ, is saved, and has eternal life, he has to have the righteousness of the law is wrong. The first thing and the minimum requirement of the righteousness of the law is circumcision. In chapter one Paul said that he marveled that the Galatians were so quickly removed from Him who had called them in the grace of Christ to a different gospel. He marveled that they were so quickly deceived to follow another gospel (v. 6). He also said that if he, an angel, or any spirit came and preached to them a gospel different from what they had received, they should be anathematized. The word anathematize is the strongest word of curse in the Greek language. It means that all the curse in heaven falls on the cursed one and that all the blessings are withheld. Paul said that his gospel was revealed to him by God alone. He received it in the wilderness of Arabia. This is the reason that his gospel could not contain any mistake. Galatians 2 tells us what this gospel is. In this chapter Peter pretended. When he saw the Jews coming in from James (vv. 11-12), he maintained himself as a Jew. Paul rebuked him to his face. Circumcision means nothing. Christ has already died. It is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives. Chapter three tells us that God's goal is not the law but the promise. The reason that God gave man the law was to cause man first to know his sin and then to accept the Son of God. Chapter four brings out two other things to show us that it is useless for man to keep the law even if he is able to do it. Hagar represents the law, and Sarah represents grace. Hagar must go before Sarah can remain. Even if you can keep the law, you are just Hagar, and you still have to go. The first sentence in chapter five is, "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free." Christ has brought us into freedom. We must now stand firm in this freedom. Do not lose this freedom. If a man keeps circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to him. If the system of the law is retained, Christ will have to be denied. One cannot keep the law a little and then ask Christ to make up the rest. Christ never does this kind of piecemeal work. Hence, Paul said, "And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to do the whole law" (5:3). Why would some not choose other things in the law? Why would some only pick up the matter of circumcision? Why would they only pick up what they liked and not keep the whole law? If they wanted to keep one item of the law, they would also have to keep the entire law. If one stays, all have to stay. They cannot choose one and reject all the others. Verse 4 says, "You have been brought to nought, separated from Christ, you who are being justified by law; you have fallen from grace." To be brought to nought from Christ means the same thing as Christ profiting nothing at the end of verse 2. It seems as if Christ is not expressed in you. You do not have forgiveness, joy, and peace. Furthermore, if you follow the law, Christ will be brought to nought in you. Here, it is not a matter of receiving salvation. It is speaking of the condition to be saved. Suppose FROSBEL says, "I will keep the Sabbath from today. If I do not keep the Sabbath, my salvation will not be complete." we must tell him, "If you keep the Sabbath, the work of Christ will have no effect on you. It is of faith that we are in Christ. Now you have gone back to the law. You have fallen from grace." Thus, it is not a question of salvation. It is a matter of the condition for being saved. It shows us that a man is saved by Christ and not by himself. If a man keeps the law, there will be no grace. The book of Galatians speaks of good works. It speaks of keeping the law of God. Galatians is on the keeping of the law and circumcision. Paul said that they had fallen from grace. To be fallen from grace is to be fallen from the principle of grace and to follow the principle of works once again. Today, there are numerous saved believers who have fallen from grace. But they have not lost their salvation.He also said that those in Galatians 5 strove to overcome, but they had fallen from grace to trust in their works instead. They wanted to have good works, but when they did this, they fell. What is to be in grace? Grace means that we are lowly and helpless persons. We can do nothing. We have received grace before God. We are in a lowly position. We are looking to God to give us grace. As such, we are those that live in grace. It is not a matter of sin or evil conduct here. If a man trusts in his own work, he is obstructing the grace of Christ. Paul rebuked the Galatians here for following the law after they were saved. They had fallen from grace. He reprimanded them for not having received enough grace and not having received enough mercy from God. To receive mercy and grace from God is to allow God to work. This proves that the flesh is incapable and cannot do anything. We can work by our flesh. But those in the flesh do not please God. We hate been pitied,either do we want others to feed us the rest of our lives. we want to be independent. This is good. But the Bible says that, as far as God is concerned, this is wrong because such people have fallen from His mercy. Paul was not rebuking them for sinning. Paul was rebuking them for doing good. Paul rebuked them for doing good because their doing good meant that they did not need God's mercy anymore for the rest of their lives. They would not live in God's mercy anymore.Brethrem, man's thought is totally different from God's thought. We think that we can please God by doing a little. But God is happy when we remain in His grace. He repeatedly says that He desires mercy and not sacrifice (Matt. 9:13). Mercy is for God to give us something, and sacrifice is for us to give something to God. God desires mercy. This means that He likes to give things to us. He does not desire sacrifice. This means that He does not want us to give things to Him. If God can give things away, He will feel happy. This is salvation. Salvation is not to make us happy. Salvation is to make God happy. God likes to keep giving. He wants to work continually on us. He wants to give us grace.Galatians 5:4 says that we should not fall outside of grace. It does not say that we should not fall into sin. What is contended here is not the question of salvation, but the question of enjoyment. Before God, we need not move, and we need not keep the law. We do not have to do anything. We should just allow God to work on us and to give us grace. Once we have works, we are fallen from grace. Hence, to say that one has fallen from grace does not refer to the question of salvation. To be fallen from grace is a question of whether or not we enjoy Christ's benefits for us. To be fallen from grace is a matter of whether or not one allows the work of Christ to operate in him. We thank the Lord that salvation means to be continually under God's mercy and to be continually under His grace.
( OPEN FOR CORRECTIONS THOUGH)

^ God bless you bro chuka.

@ichuka,
I love the way you came about your post and your willingness to be open for corrections. I think this is the way we can discuss well as Christians.

However, some things I will like to bring out from your post:
No one can be justified by the law! Whether before they come to Christ or after.

That said we can see where Paul said He was zealous for the traditions of the elders and he was berating the Galatians for certain things they were doing for justification which are circumcision and observating the days, years and times. It is clearly stated there.

I all love the fact where you said we can do nothing because that is the truth. Paul said it is Christ that lives in him and the life He lives in the flesh is by faith in God. Same bible says it is God who wills and does IN US according to His great pleasure meaning God is the one who works in us.

Another way to look at where you said we can do nothing is that a Christian is also not meant to WORK THE WORKS OF THE FLESH as listed in Galations 5:19-21. What does this mean? No Christians should claim since he is in Christ, he will do nothing and then be working out sin! Do you understand?

Paul said WALK in the SPIRIT! Galatians 5:16. And that means walk in love, peace, patience, self-control etc for against such there is no law (Gal. 5:22) as you have already fulfilled the law. That is how to keep the law. At the end of the day you will realise you cannot covet, lie, steal, bear false witness etc.

But we have people who sin and claim they are 'bought' with a price, they need no repentance since they claim to have 'faith'. Forgetting they are doing a work! The only difference is that it is the work of the devil/flesh. How can you say your faith needs no work and yet you are working in the FLESH (lying, stealing, adultery). See why people take Paul wrongly? They find it so easy to work works in the flesh without remorse yet refuse to Walk in the Spirit.

Hence if Christians truly believes what it means to rest from their labours and not 'work' because it is Christ living in them, we will not have people sinning as even sin is a work.

If you have faith without works fine but ensure you are not 'working' at all even work of the flesh as stated in Gal. 5:19.

And that is my take on what you posted. Thanks.

Alwaystrue: @ichuka,
Paul said WALK in the SPIRIT! Galatians 5:16. And that means walk in love, peace, patience, self-control etc for against such there is no law (Gal. 5:22) as you have already fulfilled the law. That is how to keep the law. At the end of the day you will realise you cannot covet, lie, steal, bear false witness etc.

Good talk.

@Zikky, oops thanks. Take that to mean 'Keep the commandments of God' (Rev.14:12; 12:17)
If you cancel that out, just provide scriptural backing.

Alwaystrue: . But we have people who sin and claim they are 'bought' with a price, they need no repentance since they claim to have 'faith'. Forgetting they are doing a work! The only difference is that it is the work of the devil/flesh. How can you say your faith needs no work and yet you are working in the FLESH (lying, stealing, adultery). See why people take Paul wrongly? They find it so easy to work works in the flesh without remorse yet refuse to Walk in the Spirit.

Hence if Christians truly believes what it means to rest from their labours and not 'work' because it is Christ living in them, we will not have people sinning as even sin is a work.

Your observation and concern is related with the question the Roman church asked Paul, 'shall we continue in sin'. Paul explained by personalising the situation, he says

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


This means every believer truly want to be good and do good things in our mind but we live in a body of sin and death. The apostle found a consolation in Christ while he is still in the body of sin, he says

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

As Christians and heirs and joint heirs with Christ, our salvation is secured and there is no condemnation for us.

God does not expect us to remain in this state, we have to grow and mature in our walk with God. Our growth depends on our understanding of the word of God through the covenant of grace. Understanding the Word leads to renewing of our mind.

A Christian that perpetually commits an act of sin remains a Christian that lack understanding of the Word of God . The Word of God makes it clear that every believer will receive the reward of the inheritance in relative proportions without partiality.

shdemidemi:

Your observation and concern is related with the question the Roman church asked Paul, 'shall we continue in sin'. Paul explained by personalising the situation, he says

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


This means every believer truly want to be good and do good things in our mind but we live in a body of sin and death. The apostle found a consolation in Christ while he is still in the body of sin, he says

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

As Christians and heirs and joint heirs with Christ, our salvation is secured and there is no condemnation for us.

God does not expect us to remain in this state, we have to grow and mature in our walk with God. Our growth depends on our understanding of the word of God through the covenant of grace. Understanding the Word leads to renewing of our mind.

A Christian that perpetually commits an act of sin remains a Christian that lack understanding of the Word of God . The Word of God makes it clear that every believer will receive the reward of the inheritance in relative proportions without partiality.

Thank for your post, do note what Paul said:

Romans 6:12-16
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your MORTAL BODY, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto DEATH, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Now did you notice you still cannnot segregate the body and spirit entirely here? Yes, sin is in our body but you should not obey it, that is why it is a constant battle.
If we keep sinning WITHOUT repentance and asking for help from the Holy Spirit and willing to obey we are serving the law of sin which leads to death.
Do you note the way OBEDIENCE was linked to righteousness- Obedience unto Righteousness? That is Faith. Even Abraham had to OBEY first, by leaving His fatherland and by willing to sacrifice Isaac because He had Faith. Jesus was obedient u to death. Hebrews 5:8. That is why you cannot live in disobedience to God's word and claim to have faith. Faith in what?

I am also glad you quoted where Paul said he serves the LAW of God in his mind but with th flesh He serves the law of sin so continually growing above this by making the effort, showing the willingness and allowing God work in us helps us overcome the body.

Yes you are right it is not a one day thing but we STRIVE to (Heb.12:14)....not sitting down doing 'nothing'.

The bible says there is therefore no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH but AFTER THe SPIRIT.

Remember, Paul himself said he disciplines and subdues his body and bring it under control (seems like a lot of work afterall), lest by any means after preaching he is castaway or disqualified! Yes, that was Paul who was so sure of his salvation.
Words to make you reflect.

(Edited)

I can't get my head round all of the discussion due to other work related issues , however in a nutshell we have a duty to keep ourselves from sin and idols by the grace of GOD.

Any encouragement to sin is lawlessness and should be avoided , whether this be against the 10 commandments or the law of grace, there is no excuse to continue in Sin, to do so is to draw back, to build again the things we once destroyed, to be in alliance with death etc.

We are encouraged to press on to perfection not to rest on our oars hoping to make it while living in sin.

@Alwaysttrue

I am appreciating your position more and more. I see where you're coming from: it is still is problem of how the believer must view sin.

I invite U to the thread on Judaizers I talked about above. Hopefully before the end of the day, I will discuss the place of grace and Christians overcoming sin in that.

But please appreciate God's grace so much and think less about your sin and others sin; because it would rob U of God's blessing - the blessing of grace.

Alwaystrue:

Thank for your post, do note what Paul said:

Romans 6:12-16
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your MORTAL BODY, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto DEATH, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Now did you notice you still cannnot segregate the two? If we keep sinning WITHOUT repentance and asking for help from the Holy Spirit and willing to obey we are serving the law of sin which leads to death..

We must understand the dichotomy between work and grace unto salvation. Paul says we have a new master, our master has paid a price to buy us from our previous master. There is therefore nothing you and I can do to go back to our old master except another price is paid to retrieve us. Paul mostly use the word beseech, which is a form of plead to tell us how to carry ourselves with the new master.

There is a difference between works because I am saved and works to get saved.

Alwaystrue:
Do you note the way OBEDIENCE was linked to righteousness- Obedience unto Righteousness? That is Faith. Even Abraham had to OBEY first, by leaving His fatherland and by willing to sacrifice Isaac because He had Faith. Jesus was obedient u to death. Hebrews 5:8. That is why you cannot live in disobedience to God's word and claim to have faith. Faith in what?.

The key to obedience is belief. We can only be obedient after we believe, Abraham believed and his belief was accounted has righteousness. We must know that Abraham made decisions and compromised at various times, you and I could call that disobedience. But, all Abraham did was the predestined plan of God. Therefore, we can't condemn any believer (with the view point of the law) because we don't know what God is doing through what we perceive to be disobedience.

Alwaystrue:
I am also glad you quoted where Paul said he serves the LAW of God in his mind but with th flesh He serves the law of sin so continually growing above this by making the effort, showing the willingness and allowing God work in us helps us overcome the body. .

I believe the Spirit of God in us leads us to will and to do the things of God

Alwaystrue:
Yes you are right it is not a one day thing but we STRIVE to....not sitting down doing 'nothing'..

TRUE... I believe we must study the word of God at all times, the bible says it transforms us from glory to glory.

Alwaystrue:
The bible says there is therefore no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH but AFTER THe SPIRIT...

The original manuscript does not have that 'who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit' in verse 1. You can do a brief research on that, most translations also stop at 'no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. The entire chapter is an indicative identity of who we are as Christians.

Alwaystrue:
Remember, Paul himself said he disciplines and subdues his body and bring it under control (seems like a lot of work afterall), lest by any means after preaching he is castaway or disqualified! Yes, that was Paul who was so sure of his salvation.
Words to make you reflect.

Paul was not talking about being condemned to hell.

Castaway there means loss of future reward.

Remember the parable of the sower, some will bear hundred some sixty and some thirty. We will be rewarded for our good works.

As for the conscious effort of Paul to subdue his body, it is not unto righteousness. He was already righteous through Christ Jesus.

@shdemidemi,
You summed it up youself when you said this:

shdemidemi:
There is a difference between works because I am saved and works to get saved.

As I said and will always say, you cannot work to get saved. Salvation is free. It is when you are saved, that you can work out your salvation by doing good works by the help of the Holy Spirit and thus move on to perfection (Heb. 6:1-3). I think this is the conclusion of this matter.
Thank you.

DrummaBoy: @Alwaysttrue

I am appreciating your position more and more. I see where you're coming from: it is still is problem of how the believer must view sin.

I invite U to the thread on Judaizers I talked about above. Hopefully before the end of the day, I will discuss the place of grace and Christians overcoming sin in that.

But please appreciate God's grace so much and think less about your sin and others sin; because it would rob U of God's blessing - the blessing of grace.

I see grace to mean unmerited favour, acceptance, God redeeming us at Christ's expense, a gift that makes us right with God because we are in Christ Jesus and God's help.
That is why as soon as I come to the knowledge of something I did wrong, I confess it and seek for mercy and help to overcome it, not by my power; and I continually enjoy letting God will and do His great pleasure in me.
So, I am at a loss at what you mean by I am thinking about my sin and others sin and it robbing me of blessings of grace but thanks for the advice.

I am careful about labelling people anyhow like calling them Judaist. If you have a message, preach it. This thread I think is sufficient to know what needs to be known about the word of God, His commands and grace to help us as we need it. Atleast people have learnt the 10 commandments were given direct by God in His own voice and @Bidam gave some more justice to it. Hence they cannot be called Mosaic laws.
It will be hard for you to preach a message to the people you supposedly call 'Judaist' by your qualifying the thread. All I see is an another avenue for arguments, bashing and insults. So thanks but no thanks, I will pass.

DrummaBoy: @Alwaysttrue

I am appreciating your position more and more. I see where you're coming from: it is still is problem of how the believer must view sin.

I invite U to the thread on Judaizers I talked about above. Hopefully before the end of the day, I will discuss the place of grace and Christians overcoming sin in that.

But please appreciate God's grace so much and think less about your sin and others sin; because it would rob U of God's blessing - the blessing of grace.

Imposter.

shdemidemi:

We must understand the dichotomy between work and grace unto salvation. Paul says we have a new master, our master has paid a price to buy us from our previous master. There is therefore nothing you and I can do to go back to our old master except another price is paid to retrieve us. Paul mostly use the word beseech, which is a form of plead to tell us how to carry ourselves with the new master.

There is a difference between works because I am saved and works to get saved.


The key to obedience is belief. We can only be obedient after we believe, Abraham believed and his belief was accounted has righteousness. We must know that Abraham made decisions and compromised at various times, you and I could call that disobedience. But, all Abraham did was the predestined plan of God. Therefore, we can't condemn any believer (with the view point of the law) because we don't know what God is doing through what we perceive to be disobedience.




I believe the Spirit of God in us leads us to will and to do the things of God



TRUE... I believe we must study the word of God at all times, the bible says it transforms us from glory to glory.



The original manuscript does not have that 'who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit' in verse 1. You can do a brief research on that, most translations also stop at 'no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. The entire chapter is an indicative identity of who we are as Christians.



Paul was not talking about being condemned to hell.

Castaway there means loss of future reward.

Remember the parable of the sower, some will bear hundred some sixty and some thirty. We will be rewarded for our good works.

^^^

What about those seeds that fell by the wayside?

As for the conscious effort of Paul to subdue his body, it is not unto righteousness. He was already righteous through Christ Jesus.

^^^

LWTMB Then why the effort to subdue? you are a JOKER

Anything to be disobedient.

Lawlessness is sin and death

Paul was lawfull to the end.

Alwaystrue:
I am careful about labelling people anyhow like calling them Judaist. If you have a message, preach it. This thread I think is sufficient to know what needs to be known about the word of God, His commands and grace to help us as we need it. Atleast people have learnt the 10 commandments were given direct by God in His own voice and @Bidam gave some more justice to it. Hence they cannot be called Mosaic laws.
It will be hard for you to preach a message to the people you supposedly call 'Judaist' by your qualifying the thread. All I see is an another avenue for arguments, bashing and insults. So thanks but no thanks, I will pass.

This post made my day,God bless you ma'am.

2 Timothy 2:23-25 - But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes

Alwaystrue: @Zikky, oops thanks. Take that to mean 'Keep the commandments of God' (Rev.14:12; 12:17)
If you cancel that out, just provide scriptural backing.

Lol okay, no wahala.

Zikkyy:

Lol okay, no wahala.

na God catch you.

[quote
author=Alwaystrue]

I am careful about labelling people anyhow like calling them Judaist. If
you have a message, preach it. This thread I think is sufficient to
know what needs to be known about the word of God, His commands and
grace to help us as we need it. Atleast people have learnt the 10
commandments were given direct by God in His own voice and @Bidam....
[/quote]

I was very careful about who I labelled a Judaist in that thread. I tried to pass a message (whether U have the capacity to receive it is another matter) using verifiable biblical references. I made a case against sects like the circumcision who were bent on upholding outdated Mosaic laws.

The question that remains unanswered is this: do we have people like this in modern times? Do we have Judaist on nairaland?

As for insults and such likes - when men have run out of ideas and capacity to reason properly they must surely resort to such things; by now you should know I am not that kind of a person.

DrummaBoy:

I was very careful about who I labelled a Judaist in that thread. I tried to pass a message (whether U have the capacity to receive it is another matter) using verifiable biblical references. I made a case against sects like the circumcision who were bent on upholding outdated Mosaic laws.

The question that remains unanswered is this: do we have people like this in modern times? Do we have Judaist on nairaland?

As for insults and such likes - when men have run out of ideas and capacity to reason properly they must surely resort to such things; by now you should know I am not that kind of a person.

Only a satanist will use "outdated mosaic" its like saying "old God"

Not saying your a satanist

but then again..

Alwaystrue:
Atleast people have learnt the 10 commandments were given direct by God in His own voice and @Bidam gave some more justice to it. Hence they cannot be called Mosaic laws.

Mosaic law does not mean the law originated from Moses. Other laws given by Moses were from God. It does not matter or change anything whether delivered directly by God or through a messenger, the 10 commandment went with other laws. When GOD was dishing out the 10 commandment, it was strictly for the Israelite, and we are all aware that Moses did not sprinkle blood on members of the Christian church when executing the covenant. abi you are one those peeps that said "We will do everything that the LORD has told us."

The 10 commandments (as stated in the books of Moses) was strictly an instruction to the Israelite. That is not to say killing before the 10 commandment came into existence was something God allowed, same for worshipping other Gods e.t.c. Like Bidam stated in one of his/her post the commandments are a reflection of God's character and does not change. God will always be against killing, 'cornering' your neighbor's wife/husband, worshipping other gods e.t.c.

Bidam: na God catch you.

What are you talking about this time

@ everyone who have contributed to this thread,

I like to address questions and issues raised by Alwaystrue and Bidam in their response BEFORE I then come back to amplify what I wrote earlier. But before I take the discussion further, I like as many as can to please answer these questions:

1. What does "we are not under the law but under grace" mean AND WHO ARE THOSE NOT UNDER THE LAW?

2. What does "WHATSOEVER the law says it says to those under the law" mean AND WHO ARE THOSE UNDER THE LAW?

3. Are Christians "under the law" as per question #1 above?

4. Why does scriptures called the ten commandments MINISTRY OF DEATH AND CONDEMNATIONS and yet we have it imported into the NT for us Christians?

5. What does "love is the fulfillment of the law" mean?

All and anyone answering the above will move us to next face of our discussion while I will answer to the queries of Bidam and Alwaystrue.

MostHigh:

^^^

LWTMB Then why the effort to subdue? you are a JOKER

Paul was lawfull to the end.

I believe I explained why he subdued his body.

The bible says he did that lest he won't be castaway.
I also explained what castaway as used in the original manuscript means.

Being a believer and a joint heir with Christ does not mean every man won't be merited according to their fruits, Some will bring forth thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred. We shall all be rewarded accordingly.

shdemidemi:

Your observation and concern is related with the question the Roman church asked Paul, 'shall we continue in sin'. Paul explained by personalising the situation, he says

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


This means every believer truly want to be good and do good things in our mind but we live in a body of sin and death. The apostle found a consolation in Christ while he is still in the body of sin, he says

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

As Christians and heirs and joint heirs with Christ, our salvation is secured and there is no condemnation for us.

God does not expect us to remain in this state, we have to grow and mature in our walk with God. Our growth depends on our understanding of the word of God through the covenant of grace. Understanding the Word leads to renewing of our mind.

A Christian that perpetually commits an act of sin remains a Christian that lack understanding of the Word of God . The Word of God makes it clear that every believer will receive the reward of the inheritance in relative proportions without partiality.

One thing you guys need to put into consideration in this 'once saved forever saved' gospel is that one who claims to be saved that still remains a perpetual sinner is not saved in the first place.

We are only looking at salvation from God's perspective.

How do you know a Christian from an unbel? Is it by answering altar call or by mere lip service?

What differentiates a believer from the world is the ability to live a godly life in this godless world.

Anyone living in pertual sin is NOT SAVED.

Salvation from man's angle is - 'working out your salvation with fear and trembling'.

Yes, God has saved us and anyone he saves is saved forever. But we know those God has saved by their godly character - fruits of righteousness.

Let's provide the right balance needed in this teaching.

shdemidemi:

I believe I explained why he subdued his body.

The bible says he did that lest he won't be castaway.
I also explained what castaway as used in the original manuscript means.

Being a believer and a joint heir with Christ does not mean every man won't be merited according to their fruits, Some will bring forth thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred. We shall all be rewarded accordingly.

Merited according to their fruits? never heard that before.

If I remember correctly it is to BEAR fruit, and bearing fruit IN THE CORRECT CONTEXT my friend is NOT ABOUT REWARD its ABOUT HARD WORK

Can a good tree bear bad fruit?



If ye say ye are of Christ then why are you fighting him?

Why say you know more than him?

Why preach your own sermon or any other sermon for that matter?

Why grieve the holy spirit?

You can be exactly as the master is but not greater

There is no other revelation but that of yashua Ibn Joseph

my question is, what makes one a Christian indeed? ^^^^

Tgirl4real:

One thing you guys need to put into consideration in this 'once saved forever saved' gospel is that one who claims to be saved that still remains a perpetual sinner is not saved in the first place.

We are only looking at salvation from God's perspective.

How do you know a Christian from an unbel? Is it by answering altar call or by mere lip service?

What differentiates a believer from the world is the ability to live a godly life in this godless world.

Anyone living in pertual sin is NOT SAVED.

Salvation from man's angle is - 'working out your salvation with fear and trembling'.

Yes, God has saved us and anyone he saves is saved forever. But we know those God has saved by their godly character - fruits of righteousness.

Let's provide the right balance needed in this teaching.

Quite right.

Even the demons belive there is God

So after that what is the next step

You know how it is read in the holy book

Faith without works.....

Tgirl4real:
Salvation from man's angle is - 'working out your salvation with fear and trembling'.

Yes, God has saved us and anyone he saves is saved forever. But we know those God has saved by their godly character - fruits of righteousness.

Let's provide the right balance needed in this teaching.

No man has the power to work his or her salvation, that particular part of the scripture means continue to live in a way that gives meaning to your salvation. If we can actually do that, we have a reason to boast cos we achieved it by our own righteousness. Remember, what you and I call right is like filthy rag in the sight of God.

shdemidemi: my question is, what makes one a Christian indeed? ^^^^

A Christian in scriptural speak is a Gentile or Unbeliver AKA goyim

Yashua from whose name this word was derived is no CHRISTIAN

Yashua is a JEW.

One of the WAY.

You can be exactly as your master is but not greater.

)

Being bornagain means you have received the 'life of God' - ability to live above sin, ability to say NO to sin, ability to chose what is right before God over what the world say is right.

When we were in the world, we were slaves to the flesh - the sinful nature.

Now that wecan in Christ, our master is righteousness.

We are to live a holy and righteous life in Christ Jesus.

And that doesn't mean we wont sin, but we do, we should ask God for forgiveness.