The unfortunate truth is that there is a link between the prosperity gospel and neo Judaism. They are children of the same parent - another Jesus, another spirit and another gospel. This I have proved beyond reasonable doubt, atleast for those with the ability to reason.

On the other hand their is a link between the gospel of grace, God's call on us to liberty and the fact that we must share in Jesus suffering here on earth to birth his purpose - these also is from one source - the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The reason why I cannot agree with neo Judaist is that we do no possess the same spirit. It will do those who oppose me and others a great deal of good to find out what spirit propels them before it is too late.

I believe I am done on this thread.

Bidam: Argument for silence

I knew you answer was going to be around this premise, you can't give what you don't have, can you?

You have succeeded in making it clear that the philosophy of "spirituality equal physical well being" is a fallacy/error.

shdemidemi:

I knew you answer was going to be around this premise, you can't give what you don't have, can you?

You have succeeded in making it clear that the philosophy of "spirituality equal physical well being" is a fallacy/error.

You don't know nada.Go study more jare.

Bidam: You don't know nada.Go study more jare.

shdemidemi:

U've got mail.

Tgirl4real:

U've got mail.

Yes i have, checking it now.

Thanks sis

Bidam:
So You believe prosperity is materialism abi? That is a shallow reasoning of scriptural truth. Biblical prosperity talks about total well being of an individual irrespective of seasons.The package comes with redemption.Are you redeemed?

For a christian, Money is a tool just like good health, and gifts of the spirit. The follower of Christ are expected to use it to further the purpose of the kingdom. Prosperity is not money. I know many poor men who have all the things a successful man can have, except the mansions and the cars. Those are prosperous men.

3Jo 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

The prosperity that focuses on financial and only physical increase is what I know to be materialism, hence a man can prosper and remain poor by today's standard. The only financial related promise I stick to in my bible is

Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

pet_saint:

For a christian, Money is a tool just like good health, and gifts of the spirit. The follower of Christ are expected to use it to further the purpose of the kingdom. Prosperity is not money. I know many poor men who have all the things a successful man can have, except the mansions and the cars. Those are prosperous men.

3Jo 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

The prosperity that focuses on financial and only physical increase is what I know to be materialism, hence a man can prosper and remain poor by today's standard. The only financial related promise I stick to in my bible is

Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Good and that is what i have been shouting out loud through out this thread. But mockers who love to argue and create strife and dissensions won't just believe my word.As far as they are concerned,they are right and i am wrong.Anyway thanks for saying it just the way it is in the bible.No adding, No subtracting.

Bidam:
If you want to suffer that's your prerogative as for me Jesus had redeemed me from the curses of poverty and i have entered His rest."He that is entered into His rest has also ceased from his own works"

Others have laboured: and i have entered into their labours

Concerning prosperity, conservative fear the WoF attempt/allusion to fat bank statement to biblical riches as unbalanced. Please explain this scripture

Re 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Is the lord so ignorant of the things of modern days to confuse a poor man for a rich man, or is that statement a side comment of his personal evaluation of physical poverty. Contrast this with the message to the church of Laodicea

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

pet_saint:

Concerning prosperity, conservative fear the WoF attempt/allusion to fat bank statement to biblical riches as unbalanced

. I share their sentiments,i also don't support the excesses going on in churches these days.They have become social clubs.Rather than preach messages centered on Christ,they now go to the extreme by milking the sheep on sow this and reap within 24hrs which is unbiblical. I had to leave living faith because of this. Oyedepo was like a mentor to me but it's just too bad these things are happening even now as i am typing.

Please explain this scripture

Re 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Is the lord so ignorant of the things of modern days to confuse a poor man for a rich man, or is that statement a side comment of his personal evaluation of physical poverty. Contrast this with the message to the church of Laodicea

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appe

ar; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.[/quote]When quoting these scriptures,you have to be careful not to look at them as unsaved.These are saved folks who Christ commended for the truth they held unto despite persecutions and the rest, yet they had issues which Christ is warning them to come quickly to terms with and make amends. And you also have to take note that these events have actually occurred.Not that they are yet to take place.Smyrna is called the persecuted church according to revelation 2:9. Today Smyrna is called Izmir in turkey. Smyrna is coined from the greek word myrrh which equals suffering and death.(mark 15:23). The church at Smyrna went through tremendous death and sufferings from the hands of the
Roman empire where estimated 6 millions Christians were fed to the lions,stretched on racks,crucified with crucifix for professing their faith in Jesus. They wanted to stamp out Christianity at all cost.The pastor of the church in Smyrna at that time was a man named polycarp

Polycarp was the last man who was personally discipled by John the Apostle.At 86yrs of age amidst the growing waves of persecution polycarp was ordered to borne incense at the temple of Caesar. Polycarp refused so he was sentenced to burn at the stakes.So the message of Jesus to them was a message of comfort and hope.

"Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer.I tell you,the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and wills suffer persecution for ten days.Be faithful, even unto the point of death, and i will give you the crown of life" Rev 2:10

The 10 days connotes ten Roman emperors(note revelation is actually symbolic and is in codes)between the year AD 100 through AD 313 who launched such massive attacks against the believers that between 5 to 7 million Christians were killed during their rule.The ten days included the time when Paul was beheaded by emperor Nero and peter was crucified upside down.To be continued

Bidam: . I share their sentiments,i also don't support the excesses going on in churches these days.They have become social clubs.Rather than preach messages centered on Christ,they now go to the extreme by milking the sheep on sow this and reap within 24hrs which is unbiblical. I had to leave living faith because of this. Oyedepo was like a mentor to me but it's just too bad these things are happening even now as i am typing.ar; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.[/color]When quoting these scriptures,you have to be careful not to look at them as unsaved.These are saved folks who Christ commended for the truth they held unto despite persecutions and the rest, yet they had issues which Christ is warning them to come quickly to terms with and make amends. And you also have to take note that these events have actually occurred.Not that they are yet to take place.Smyrna is called the persecuted church according to revelation 2:9. Today Smyrna is called Izmir in turkey. Smyrna is coined from the greek word myrrh which equals suffering and death.(mark 15:23). The church at Smyrna went through tremendous death and sufferings from the hands of the
Roman empire where estimated 6 millions Christians were fed to the lions,stretched on racks,crucified with crucifix for professing their faith in Jesus. They wanted to stamp out Christianity at all cost.The pastor of the church in Smyrna at that time was a man named polycarp

Polycarp was the last man who was personally discipled by John the Apostle.At 86yrs of age amidst the growing waves of persecution polycarp was ordered to borne incense at the temple of Caesar. Polycarp refused so he was sentenced to burn at the stakes.So the message of Jesus to them was a message of comfort and hope.

"Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer.I tell you,the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and wills suffer persecution for ten days.Be faithful, even unto the point of death, and i will give you the crown of life" Rev 2:10

The 10 days connotes ten Roman emperors(note revelation is actually symbolic and is in codes)between the year AD 100 through AD 313 who launched such massive attacks against the believers that between 5 to 7 million Christians were killed during their rule.The ten days included the time when Paul was beheaded by emperor Nero and peter was crucified upside down.To be continued

We are actually on the same page. I have attached an uncompleted summary of the situation of the churches. I just got lazy.

Back to the topic. I want us to note that many of the arguments, we so strongly push only glorify the flesh. Nobody's righteousness is by his or her power. The men of works and the men of faith are all empowered by the same God. What we can and should do is to point errors wherever and whenever we find them.

pet_saint:

We are actually on the same page. I have attached an uncompleted summary of the situation of the churches. I just got lazy.

Back to the topic. I want us to note that many of the arguments, we so strongly push only glorify the flesh. Nobody's righteousness is by his or her power. The men of works and the men of faith are all empowered by the same God. What we can and should do is to point errors wherever and whenever we find them.

I very much agree.Thanks for the summary,hope you will complete it soon so we can be edified.God bless.

Bidam is changing before our very eyes, may God also give us grace to change.

^^^^ I must admit I have been gobsmacked by his responses on this particular page.

God is really good.

You guys fail to understand me which is a failure on your part.It was pet saint who later got it.I was never in support of the excesses going on these churches,because i don't magnify them doesn't mean i don't know they exist. I have left living Faith long before i became registered on nairaland as a member.What i am against here is for someone to say prosperity is not in the bible,which of cos it is.

Bidam: You guys fail to understand me which is a failure on your part.It was pet saint who later got it.I was never in support of the excesses going on these churches,because i don't magnify them doesn't mean i don't know they exist. I have left living Faith long before i became registered on nairaland as a member.What i am against here is for someone to say [b]prosperity is not in the bible,w[/b]hich of cos it is.

In other words godliness /faith equal earthly prosperity, right?

shdemidemi:


In other words godliness /faith equal earthly prosperity, right?

Bros Let us focus on what we are sent to do preach the gospel, declare ye the acceptable day of the lord. Bidam has clarified himself, and there is no use sticking an unnecessary tag. What will you gain if you prove so many points anyway since you are not his judge

pet_saint:

Bros Let us focus on what we are sent to do preach the gospel, declare ye the acceptable day of the lord. Bidam has clarified himself, and there is no use sticking an unnecessary tag. What will you gain if you prove so many points anyway since you are not his judge

Have I judged him?

Is there anything wrong in pointing out errors?

If you think my responses are meant for only bidam, you are mistaken.

shdemidemi:

In other words godliness /faith equal earthly prosperity, right?

It's a choice. Those who want the poverty should enjoy or endure it without complain and neither should they condemn others. Every one in christ have access to the endless riches in God. Taking advantage of what belongs to you in Christ is individual choice. Christ has made provision for us all. Christian wealth is for the propagation of the gospel and the expansion of Gods kingdom,

Joagbaje:

It's a choice. Those who want the poverty should enjoy or endure it without complain and neither should they condemn others. Every one in christ have access to the endless riches in God. Taking advantage of what belongs to you in Christ is individual choice. Christ has made provision for us all. Christian wealth is for the propagation of the gospel and the expansion of Gods kingdom,

Joker. Who says the person speaking with you is poor and who says all your members that are constantly lied to are 'rich'.

The bible says in Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; (a caveat) if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

The scripture also says

1 tim 6
5 (From)Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

The bible says believers should withdraw from people like you. If you have another gospel separate from the gospel of Christ, why don't you make it known instead of using the guise of Christ to deceive people ( especially the poor and ignorant among us).

If God could sustain His true gospel from the time of the Apostle until this day, you think His gospel would go extinct without your fraudulent money!

Gal 3
…12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us -- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "-- 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith


“And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.” (Gen. 13:16.)


“I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.” (Gen. 17:7.)



“There is neither Jew nor Greek [in other words, neither Israelite nor non-Israelite], there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


“And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal. 3:27–29.)

“In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” (Gen. 22:18.)

^^^^ the seed of Abraham his Christ and the blessing is salvation. Don't be desperate, accept what the scripture says about our position in Christ.
Romans 8
22 We know that ·everything God made [all creation] has been ·waiting until now in pain, like a woman ready to give birth [L groaning with labor pains until now]. 23 Not only the world, but we (believer) also ·have been waiting with pain inside us [L groan within ourselves]. We have the Spirit as the ·first part of God’s promise [L firstfruits; C as the first crops confirmed the future harvest, so the Spirit’s presence confirms believers’ final salvation]. So we are [eagerly] waiting for ·God to finish making us his own children [L our adoption], which means ·our bodies will be made free [L the redemption of our bodies].

Another version for you- romans 8

18 I am sure that what we are suffering now cannot compare with the glory that will be shown to us. 19 In fact, all creation is eagerly waiting for God to show who his children are. 20 Meanwhile, creation is confused, but not because it wants to be confused. God made it this way in the hope 21 that creation would be set free from decay and would share in the glorious freedom of his children. 22 We know that all creation is still groaning and is in pain, like a woman about to give birth.

23 The Spirit makes us sure about what we will be in the future. But now we groan silently, while we wait for God to show that we are his children.[c] This means that our bodies will also be set free. 24 And this hope is what saves us. But if we already have what we hope for, there is no need to keep on hoping. 25 However, we hope for something we have not yet seen, and we patiently wait for it.

shdemidemi: ^^^^ the seed of Abraham his Christ and the blessing is salvation. Don't be desperate, accept what the scripture says about our position in Christ.
Romans 8
22 We know that ·everything God made [all creation] has been ·waiting until now in pain, like a woman ready to give birth [L groaning with labor pains until now]. 23 Not only the world, but we (believer) also ·have been waiting with pain inside us [L groan within ourselves]. We have the Spirit as the ·first part of God’s promise [L firstfruits; C as the first crops confirmed the future harvest, so the Spirit’s presence confirms believers’ final salvation]. So we are [eagerly] waiting for ·God to finish making us his own children [L our adoption], which means ·our bodies will be made free [L the redemption of our bodies].

No one is desperate,that's a poor form of arguing.Kindly address those scripture i quoted.Thanks.

Bidam: No one is desperate,that's a poor form of arguing.Kindly address those scripture i quoted.Thanks.

Who do you want to give unnecessary work? Explaining all those verses to you will make an article, I have helped with my succinct explanation. If you want to know more about the truth, you know the right reference.

shdemidemi:

Who do you want to give unnecessary work? Explaining all those verses to you will make an article, I have helped with my succinct explanation. If you want to know more about the truth, you know the right reference.

Suit yourself.

Chibuebem: Is this the way to do this @ enigma and frosbel People I respect. Smh. Tell me what Mr. Hagin said that contradicted Gods word, tell me about his false gospel. Nlmember clearly outlaid what Hagin taught in his previous posts(i dont know much about copelands teaching), where do you find fault? Do you not believe Gods word? Muskeeto quoted from Mr. Hagins book about his views on prosperity. Or are you among those who believe every pastor or man of God must be poor. When I believed, God led me straight to the mans books, and they blessed and still bless my life and growth spiritually. They teach me about the faith that made me alive in Christ, and the faith that KEEPS Me alive in Christ. Faith in Gods word is the victory. If you do not know or believe in faith, then i guarantee, no, Gods word guarantees you that you'll lead a poor spiritual life.

As Africans we are not expert on proofs, and proving. Someone however did this on Copeland and co. Kindly let us know the substance otherwise.


KENNETH COPELAND

Faith is a Force (like Star Wars).
(Spirit, Soul and Body, #01-0601, Tape #1)

God did not create the world out of nothing, He used the Force of His Faith.
(Spirit, Soul and Body, #01-0601, Tape #1)

Earth is a copy of the mother planet (Heaven).
(Following the Faith of Abraham, Tape #01-3001)

All of God's attributes and abilities were invested in Adam.
(The Authority of the Believer IV; Tape #01-0304)

......
http://www.forgottenword.org/wof-sayings.html

Bidam: . I share their sentiments,i also don't support the excesses going on in churches these days.They have become social clubs.Rather than preach messages centered on Christ,they now go to the extreme by milking the sheep on sow this and reap within 24hrs which is unbiblical. I had to leave living faith because of this. Oyedepo was like a mentor to me but it's just too bad these things are happening even now as i am typing.ar; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.[/color]When quoting these scriptures,you have to be careful not to look at them as unsaved.These are saved folks who Christ commended for the truth they held unto despite persecutions and the rest, yet they had issues which Christ is warning them to come quickly to terms with and make amends. And you also have to take note that these events have actually occurred.Not that they are yet to take place.Smyrna is called the persecuted church according to revelation 2:9. Today Smyrna is called Izmir in turkey. Smyrna is coined from the greek word myrrh which equals suffering and death.(mark 15:23). The church at Smyrna went through tremendous death and sufferings from the hands of the
Roman empire where estimated 6 millions Christians were fed to the lions,stretched on racks,crucified with crucifix for professing their faith in Jesus. They wanted to stamp out Christianity at all cost.The pastor of the church in Smyrna at that time was a man named polycarp

Polycarp was the last man who was personally discipled by John the Apostle.At 86yrs of age amidst the growing waves of persecution polycarp was ordered to borne incense at the temple of Caesar. Polycarp refused so he was sentenced to burn at the stakes.So the message of Jesus to them was a message of comfort and hope.

"Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer.I tell you,the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and wills suffer persecution for ten days.Be faithful, even unto the point of death, and i will give you the crown of life" Rev 2:10

The 10 days connotes ten Roman emperors(note revelation is actually symbolic and is in codes)between the year AD 100 through AD 313 who launched such massive attacks against the believers that between 5 to 7 million Christians were killed during their rule.The ten days included the time when Paul was beheaded by emperor Nero and peter was crucified upside down.To be continued

Can you continue please, I am following...

Tgirl4real:

Can you continue please, I am following...

Ok,i will but so many things on my plate now. I never knew you enjoyed history of the early church.

@Tgirl4real, here is a link on seven letters to seven churches,it covers Revelations chapter 2&3. Very interesting watch.It will give you more insight and understanding on your pretribulation thread.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfSsP7SHYUw

Tgirl4real:


Dis wan na long thing o.

I read your post after this to Frosbel, pls take it easy.

I know Kenneth Hagin tried correcting some of his errors in one of the last books he wrote, I can't remember anymore. I used to be a great follower. One of my dreams was to meet him b4 he died.

Hagin made people focus more on hearing the voice of God than following scriptures, he promoted seeing of visions and out of body experiences. He is one of the major fathers of the WOF movement making people more selfcentered than being Christ-centered. He gave personal def to biblical terms like Word of Knowledge, wisdom without any scriptural backing.

The baba o of move of the spirit - u can see the confusion in the video up there.

Copeland on the otherhand is worse. He took the prosperity gospel to a whole new level. His teachings are like that of Oyaks.

I can't remember much cos I stopped following them a long time ago and I am so limited right now.

Google may help you better.

wow are you limited

Nd to think I was watching some of these videos few nights back...

I don't understand wetin be holy laughter o..or drunken in the spirit...its too derogatory!

#God is no author of confusion!

RobinHez:
Nd to think I was watching some of these videos few nights back...

I don't understand wetin be holy laughter o..or drunken in the spirit...its too derogatory!

#God is no author of confusion!

I'm here to clear you... What's your question?