Ken4Christ: I have watched the video. I do not see anything strange about it. The truth is that the things of the spirit are foolishness to the carnal man. If frosbel and those who join him to speak againt these men of God live more than two years from now, I will call it a miracle. They are just progra
mming their lives for early death. I feel sorry for them. These men are among the greatest teachers of the word of God in our generation.

DrummaBoy:

I would not take up the challenge. I have better challenges to face on this forum: HAGIN IS NOT BIBLE AND THAT IS SUFFICIENT FOR ME.

He would do well to replace those Hagin books he has in his library with more reputable men of God's work over time.

I see Hagin disciples all over Christendom and the fruit they bear shows the rubbish they consume. Read scripture and find better Christian leaders to model ur life after.

DrummaBoy:

And Hagin has become holy scriptures... smhl

It is no wonder Bidam and others come here and spew the rubbish they believe; it is Hagin that is influencing all of that.

Nonsense!

Ken4Christ: I have watched the video. I do not see anything strange about it. The truth is that the things of the spirit are foolishness to the carnal man. If frosbel and those who join him to speak againt these men of God live more than two years from now, I will call it a miracle. They are just progra
mming their lives for early death. I feel sorry for them. These men are among the greatest teachers of the word of God in our generation.

frosbel: A typical Hagin revival - DISGUSTING !!!!!!!!!!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj4Es7RRpqg

Bidam: Good,i have read drummaboy lengthy post and i still don't get it.Is it hagin that is responsible for the whole denomination thing in the church today? Are we to blame hagins teachings for the excesses according to him? We even asked him to quote from hagin book and show us the error so we could discuss this as bible students.He failed to do so and went as far as telling us far fetched stories about his personal experiences which we are not remotely interested in.If he can't take up this gentleman challenge then we are bold to call him a liar here.

pet_saint:

This is the crux of my post too. Let us stop elevating the men of God more than the God of man. as far as I can tell. Hagin is no greater than pastor Adeboye (the latest Arch Bishop in Nigeria). They all are men of like passion, just the way James said Elijah was a man of like passion (Jas 5:17). As long as they are flesh and blood, they will have corruptible and make mistakes, which is fine by me. The onus is on us to always balance their teaching by the word of God, and the holy spirit so that we are not misled, or act contrary to the will of God for our lives.

I personally believe everybody cannot be rich, regardless of the level of faith exercised, why? we all cannot handle prosperity equally. the fact of prosperity alone will lead some people to hell, since they will unleash themselves on their enemies. If i were God, i wont bless anybody that prays God to kill his enemies as it will be an avenue for bloodshed

Bidam: . So You believe prosperity is materialism abi? That is a shallow reasoning of scriptural truth. Biblical prosperity talks about total well being of an individual irrespective of seasons.The package comes with redemption.Are you redeemed?

DrummaBoy:

Ok, I take up the challenge. I took up the time to write this; pls read:

MY POSITION ON KENNETH HAGIN AND THE WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT

The nairaland.com religious forum is supposed to be a public religious discussion internet site and it makes some sense that if we shall be discussing Christian doctrine we find a common ground to discuss from. For us Christians this is not difficult to do as we have the bible that most churches take as final authority on issues concerning our faith. That is why if the OP brought a video discussing the excesses of the Word of Faith movement I would expect that we use this bible to speak both for or against it. If however we find some folks come here and begin to make insinuations that are almost equating Hagin’s books with the bible, we must resist it adamantly. The Spirit of God is dynamic and can use the basest thing possible, which names the Lord Jesus, to bring men to faith in Christ and grant salvation ultimately. This does not mean that such means are scriptural and a time comes when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes to restore order to such a means. Such is the case with the Word of Faith movement – God used it for a time to bring about His purpose but the WOF is not necessarily scriptural.

I have not been able to finish one book written by Kenneth Hagin despite the fact that I have come across many. The reason is simple: even before I got to know the errors in the WOF I have always found his books boring. The intellectual basis is very shallow; the books seem more packaged for sales than for edification with the glossy paper backs and so on; the text are replete with scripture quotation so that close to half of what is written in the book is a direct quotation from the bible – I often wonder why not just publish the bible and sell; the books contain little discussion on the subject of matter but so many stories bordering on the author’s experience; and finally, and the most tragic, the fact that Hagin uses his visions to grant authority to his writing – such that no one can question his theology and such that his adherents equate his writing with the bible (the very thing I am attacking on this nairaland thread). Hagin is not the only one guilty of this; virtually all authors from the WOF movement do the same.

Unfortunately these are the literatures that make their way into the Nigerian Christian community and so we have the mess we have today. In the USA, were they operate, their fraudulent activities are well known – but they take advantage of our ignorance and gullibility in Nigeria to make money.

Very few people know that Kenneth Hagin plagiarized a lot of the writing of E W Kenyon. A simple google search on this matter will reveal how Kenyon’s daughter had instituted court cases against Hagin on this matter. But even Kenyon’s ideas are not originally his. Kenyon was influenced by the teaching and ministry of Mary Eddy Baker, the founder of Christian Science. One of the major theologies of Christian Science is healing. This sort of healing comes by exerting the will in a metaphysical manner where the spiritual is used to bring about physical changes – New Age. Traditional protestant churches consider Christian Science as a cult and the exertion of the will to obtain healing (which Hagin calls faith) has been proven to be of the occult. Many New Age teachings talk about how one can use the mind to obtain wealth and health; Kenneth Hagin simply adapted this teachings and added some scriptures out of context to them to have the Word of Faith movement. The Mark 11:24 scripture that some of his adherents thought he wrote is a case in point. On this basis and so many others, Hagin have been proven to be a false prophet.

The WOF movement’s chief error is the prosperity gospel. This gospel is called the health and wealth gospel. The means of achieving this prosperity is via the name it and claim it principles. Many adherents refuse to accept the fact that the prosperity teaching is a gospel because it would bring out the truth to them that what they believe in is another gospel. The easiest litmus test of this gospel is to compare it with the gospel in the New Testament. I have argued in other places on this forum that the gospel God would have the church propagate is the gospel of grace. This gospel was preached primarily by Paul the Apostle, while Jesus and the other apostles testified to it. Jesus did not preach the gospel of grace exclusively (and that is why I think we should all give Shdemidemi the opportunity to explain to us the gospel of the Kingdom which he claims Jesus preached) because he was born under the law and was subject to the law. He however lent credence to this gospel of grace in many instances when he made it clear that man was not made for the law; but the law was made for man – and so the Pharisees preoccupation with the letter of the law and refusing to submit to the Spirit of it was in direct conflict with God’s will. So we must compare the WOF teaching or the prosperity gospel with the gospel of grace to know whether it really is a gospel we should believe or another gospel that Paul said the church was ever in danger of being infiltrated with.

In spite of what I have written, my Pastor here in Ibadan, Pastor Sola Kolade of the Vine Branch Church, Mokola, is a Hagin disciple. But his story is worth hearing. Pastor Sola started ministering after graduating in Kano and he said he preached mostly Faith, following Hagin of course. He told us that one day he felt God told him that the bible contains much more than faith and that he was to teach the whole counsel of God. From that day he began to teach everything the bible teaches but he still teaches faith when he is led to. My point: a definition of heresy is making something major that the bible does not. Paul said in the end we will have Faith, Hope and Love; but the greatest of them is Love. The WOF will have us believe the greatest is Faith. I still attend the church but I continually find myself in conflict with the practices and doctrine there because when Faith is believed and taught the way Hagin does, it would lead inevitably to men setting their hearts on things below instead of above as Paul calls us to in Colosians 3:1. As for why I have not left the church – well, I am trusting God for his leading on that.

I am not an authority in preaching against Hagin; I just don’t read his works or care much about his life and ministry because of all I see around me. The excesses of so many Nigerian pastors can be traced directly to this same Hagin man and it is very distressing to behold. However, there are others who have written volumes on the WOF movement that we can find their works to read; I will endeavor to find some of these literatures and post them here. But to respond to Bidam query that do I have a ministry of condemnation; i say I don’t. However, a balanced reading of the New Testament will reveal that God will have us to both propagate his gospel and to preserve it: propagate it to the unbelieving and to build the church. Also, to preserve it from heresies and errors. Any man of God who is worth his salt that does not do both is probably guilty of one of them. So I hear some say we should not criticize these men (one even said we would not last two years – nonsense). Truth is if you are sure of the gospel you are propagating you would not be afraid of being held accountable via criticism; neither will you shy away from criticizing those you think are speaking contrary to it. The Nigerian church is in danger of being corrupted by two major heretical teachings: the prosperity gospel and the holiness movement. The former through their emphasis on the physical - blessings, health and wealth; the latter through their legalism. We must contend earnestly against all this for the truth that was once delivered to the saints of God (Jude 3).

shdemidemi:

Paul, Timothy, Peter and the rest must have been ignorant of this health and wealth prosperity gospel then.

What do you think?

DrummaBoy: ^He should read 1 Corinthians 4 and see how the apostles live and carried out their ministry

Bidam: what do you understand by my post? Do you comprehend what I said at all?

Bidam: what do you understand by my post? Do you comprehend what I said at all?

shdemidemi:

You said Biblical prosperity talks about total well being of an individual irrespective of seasons. The package comes with redemption.

Your statement led to my question which says Paul, Timothy, Peter and the rest must have been ignorant of your prosperity package

What do you think?.

Bidam: And how where they ignorant When you love to quote scripture to suit your private interpretations? Imagine someone quoting me 1 cor4..SMH!!

Yooguyz:
Dude, leave Frosbel alone, it is that his healing that he did not recieve, while trying to follow Kenneth Hagin's teachings that is what is making him to attack WOF. Many folks in this thread who claim to be pastors are criticising the WOF are doing so out of pure jealousy, they can't stand the impact that Hagin, copeland and likes of them, have in this our generation. It important you realize this so that they will NOT drag you into FOOLISH arguments.
Bless you bro.

shdemidemi:


Please show me how the apostles enjoyed the package that comes with redemption. SIMPLE

shdemidemi:

Paul, Timothy, Peter and the rest must have been ignorant of this health and wealth prosperity gospel then.

What do you think?

shdemidemi:

Paul, Timothy, Peter and the rest must have been ignorant of this health and wealth prosperity gospel then.

What do you think?

Joagbaje:


What has the op video got to do with prosperity? . There is no special prosperity gospel . There is only one gospel. Which has to do with general prosperity ,spirit soul and body.


3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things [/b]that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Bidam: Never mind! since you enjoy strife, divisions and two gospels.Enjoy your ministry.

Joagbaje:


What has the op video got to do with prosperity? . There is no special prosperity gospel . There is only one gospel. Which has to do with general prosperity ,spirit soul and body.


3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Well said sir! Health and healing; prosperity and riches- they're all wrapped up in the gospel! That's Jesus Christ's mission when he came to planet earth!
Read Luke 4:18 below! The Gospel is: riches and prosperity to the poor; healing and everlasting joy to the sick and broken hearted, the list goes on and on....

Kenny4lyfe:
Well said sir! Health and healing; prosperity and riches- they're all wrapped up in the gospel! That's Jesus Christ's mission when he came to planet earth!
Read Luke 4:18 below! The Gospel is: riches and prosperity to the poor; healing and everlasting joy to the sick and broken hearted, the list goes on and on....

Bidam: And how where they ignorant When you love to quote scripture to suit your private interpretations? Imagine someone quoting me 1 cor4..SMH!!

1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment (but today we have who think we should not judge anyone just as they do not judge anyone. Here Paul shows that it is a small thing for anyone to judge him): yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. 6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written (in other words, save for those authorized by scripture we should not exalt men above the normal), that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.


7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? 8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings (sounds very much like modern prosperity gospel children: they are the kings; and are the rich and the full all in Christ) without us: and I would to God ye did reign (so they were not reigning), that we also might reign with you. 9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last ("what sort of language is Paul using here? We are not last O; we are the head and not the tail ke", as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. ("I refuse it in Jesus name" ko[/i]) 11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace (the great apostle of Christ shows here that in the bid to carry ministry for Jesus he and other apostles have no food to eat, they are thirsty, they are naked and homeless - today our own "apostles" ride in limousines and jets); 12 And labour, working with our own hands (they were not in full time ministry; they had their own jobs like tent making with which they supplied thier own needs for he that does not work must not eat saith the apostle): being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 13 Being defamed, we entreat (when our own apostles feel they are defamed, they curse): we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day (Paul, walahi, I refuse this for you in Jesus name".


14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.


17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church (oh that our own will learn the ways of the apostle). 18 Now some are puffed up (who is who here), as though I would not come to you. 19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. 20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. 21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

shdemidemi:

Give us the name of one apostle that enjoyed this health and wealth through the gospel of Christ please. If you can't show us how they revelled in this sort of riches, health and wealth you crave and pray for, don't you think there must be something wrong somewhere?

1 Cor. 15:1: "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and in which you stand By which also you are saved, if you keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scripture."

2 Cor. 11:3-4 "But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted-- you may well put up with it. (you will have to endure it, or you wear it beautifully, and some do)."

Gal 1:6-9: "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."