Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion - Religion (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by nlMediator: 9:13pm On Jul 28, 2013 |
Tgirl4real: @Frosbel, You need to quit being ridiculous. People like you are far worse than those you criticize. Here you are lying about Hagin and when asked to provide evidence of your baseless assertions, you hide under lack of scriptural example of somebody asking Jesus questions. If you are a sincere person, you'd acknowledge that what Hagin did there was the same thing you claimed he was not doing: exalting experiences over scriptures. So, in your world, if a being appears to you, you'll accept everything he says because he claims he is Jesus? Of course, if Hagin did just that, you'd be among to first to excoriate him. Looks like nothing can satisfy you people. You are free to question anyone's teachings, including Hagin's. Even the critics here are called false prophets when they're busy calling out others. What you're not at liberty to do is make false accusations about what somebody said or did not say. If you have an ounce of integrity, provide evidence of the baseless claims you made about Hagin, including correcting his errors and not being fully truthful about his health condition. With all of Hagin's faults, hardly anybody can accuse him of bearing false witness against his brethren, in the midst of scores of stories he told in his works. On that he beats all of you hands down. I'd straighten myself before I start looking for who is imperfect. 2 Likes |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 9:36pm On Jul 28, 2013 |
^^ Stop defending error. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by nlMediator: 9:39pm On Jul 28, 2013 |
It's not about defending error. Or you missed the part where I said you're free to discuss his teachings and what you think is wrong with it? What you endorse is hiding under biblical exegesis to promote defamation. That is unworthy of a child of God. 2 Likes |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by PastorOluT(m): 10:02pm On Jul 28, 2013 |
Chibuebem: So you opened a thread just to criticize these two men? Smh. I love the teachings of kenneth E. Hagin. I haven't found any error in them till today. I do not think you know anything about the spirit of God Mr. Frosbel. You even deny your own spiritual nature. There wouldnt be an argument about sin and a believers salvation in that other thread if the church lived in faith and victory. Obviously frosbel is just a soul and a body, never experience life in the spirit.No one. Can ever experience what he never believes, frosbel knows so much but understand so little. God help his soul 4 Likes |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 3:01am On Jul 29, 2013 |
Pastor Olu T:WORD!!! I said something like this earlier and this is yet another confirmation! |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 5:28am On Jul 29, 2013 |
[quote author=musKeeto][/quote]very correct. I haven't heard or listened to or seen Hagin say one thing that isnt bibilically based till today. That man's teachings have blessed my life so much. I bought the midas touch for someone, and never read it meself. Smh. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 5:38am On Jul 29, 2013 |
[quote author=frosbel][/quote] once again I say. this criticism of Kenneth E. Hagin is utter nonsense that cannot be defended. He never took any scripture out of context. He was a great bible teacher. Read his books more Mr. frosbel, they will bless your life. Discard your unitarian beliefs. Then you will begin to experience the Life of God as you should. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 5:44am On Jul 29, 2013 |
Tgirl4real: @Frosbel,no. We have reached the end of the revelation of the foundations of the gospel. We are to use this Gods word that is revealed to judge all things and experiences. Thank God for Hagin, he wasnt carried away by any vision. He was strongly grounded in Gods word. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 5:57am On Jul 29, 2013 |
musKeeto:isten man. We are in the last days. But a people are rising up. A people that will herald the NAME OF JESUS IN AUTHORITY among the nations, making disciples for God. So far, you have been standing against God. This is very important, I need you to stop forming with your atheistic beliefs, and embrace the truth of reality as you journey back to God once more, like the prodigal Son. He still loves ya. You might have derailed once, but hes ready to make the latter days of reality and grace greater than the former. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 7:04am On Jul 29, 2013 |
Warning to the brethren : Flee the word OF faith movement and particularly avoid kenneth hagin and copeland books. I am talking from experience , read your bible and ask God for wisdom , study hard and pray that God will not lead you to deception , ask God to multiply good teachers after his heart and purpose in the body of Christ and also that he will lead us into all truth by his Spirit. One of the greatest gifts you can ever ask for and which Christians should really have by default is spiritual discernment. Thw WOF is dangerous for your spiritual health. The Gospel is all about the coming righteousness kingdom of God and our preperation to be counted worthy of the eternal salvayion into it , at the second coming of Jesus. This will involve purifying ourselves by studying and obeying the word. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 7:17am On Jul 29, 2013 |
frosbel: Warning to the brethren :ok sir. We have heard you. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 7:29am On Jul 29, 2013 |
Even paul preached the word of faith. Rom 10:8, "even the word of faith which we preach". Stop being a pharisee who knew the law so much that they called Jesus names. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 7:32am On Jul 29, 2013 |
Chibuebem: ok sir. We have heard you. Frosbel speaks like someone who is bitter, bitter against the word of faith. He speaks like a rebel, Please forgive the Pastor that offended you and move on with life don't try to enlist people into your rebellion. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 7:36am On Jul 29, 2013 |
teeo:as i said before, he is in the throes of false doctrineS |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 8:07am On Jul 29, 2013 |
teeo: the word of faith movement is not the same word of faith as preached by Paul. From the word of faith movement have emanated the gospel of greed, name it and claim it, weird spiritual manifestations and worst of all , the EMPHASIS on experiences instead of the word of GOD. The word of Faith movement is dangerous and MUST be avoided.  1 Like |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 8:15am On Jul 29, 2013 |
idnoble135: Even paul preached the word of faith. Rom 10:8, "even the word of faith which we preach". Stop being a pharisee who knew the law so much that they called Jesus names. btw , this is what the word of faith Paul referred to was about : "But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:8-9 Note the bolded. This had to do with the faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus , nothing to do with greed , experiences and the bedlam gospel been practised today in so many circles. 1 Like |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by nlMediator: 4:37pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
frosbel: Continue with your useless emotional rants. I'm tempted to call you a liar. But unlike the sister that's obviously not as smart as you, you're careful enough to couch your crappy statements in generalities. The last thing anybody can accuse the Word of Faith movement of is elevating experiences. Maybe, you don't even know what goes in among those who preach the Word of Faith. I was at Kenneth Copeland's biggest annual event last year. Not once did I see anything like manifestations, much less emphasis on "experiences". The Word was taught by different preachers for days and days. Btw, I met a number of Nigerians there - from here, the UK and Nigeria. Maybe, you should confirm with them. 1 Like |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 5:40pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
Mr Frosbel, i think am done with this discussion. Goodluck to you. If we cant address your |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 5:45pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
wow! I hope you were blessed exceedingly  nlMediator: |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 5:48pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
idnoble135: Mr Frosbel, i think am done with this discussion.*unfollows thread* |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by PastorKun(m): 8:40pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
idnoble135: Good riddance! 1 Like |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Tgirl4real(f): 10:39pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
nlMediator: Sir/ma, (whichever one applies), I have really tried to refrain from getting angry and replying you, but I see that you are tryna call me out and you have suddenly turned a blind eye to the good purpose of this thread and made it about Tgirl. The first thing I mentioned in my first post here is being rusty about WOF movement cos I have been delivered from it's mess a long time ago. I don't have to boast, but I have been in the Christian walk for a while now and I have spent the major part of those years listening to lies from the pit of hell these godless men spew. Men that have no regard for God's word but turn around to twist it to soothe their hungry bellies and twisted idealogies... I have read coutless books from them and listening and watched numerous tapes and videos (I was even planning to attend Rhema Bible College if you must), I also had access to their magazine on a monthly basis, Hagin Snr. was my mentor. Over the years God deliverd me from the mess and illusion that plaqued me. Is it the false hope they give to people we wanna talk about or the 'gimmie' gimmie' gospel they teach. Hagin gave us a false definition of what faith is...thank God for illumination from scriptures, I now know faith is having absolute TRUST in God, believing and OBEYING his word to the end and not ONLY when it is convenient. Faith is not twisting the hands of God like that of a genie to give you every thing you want. Which sane father indulges his children all the time. The bible says he chastises those he loves. WOF tells you to confess and keep fooling yourselves by 'calling those things that be not as though they were'. Tell me! Are you God?! How many things have you created since you have started calling...? I bet you have been able to change your genotype from AS to AA or call forth a baby from your womb without intercourse...you might as well be the next virgin Mary... let's try a lil exercise here; start confessing as a man that you are a woman and let's hope you will become a woman in the next 365 days. Foolishness I tell you! Talking about visions...pls study what the bible say about false prophets. The prophets of God are never wrong...their prophecies are on point 100% all the way. So, how Hagin and his cohorts own come be? Aside Apostle Paul, did you read of such a dramatic conversion story again in scriptures? Are you to start seeking extra-biblical interpretations to start validating scriptures.... What exactly is the point of Jesus appearing to Hagin? I guess he is the next foundational Apostles in-line after the Apostles, so Jesus forgot some things he didn't tell John and Hagin has been CHOSEN. Nonsense! Why am I not surprised sef...what else do we expect from someone that got bornagain halfway to hell (scratch that...to the grave). I wouldn't indulge you further with my time or response...I have moved on tey tey...I would not let some godless men make a shipwreck of my faith. You can continue in your ignorance. You can't claim you haven't been warned. What I follow is the teachings of the Apostles as contained in the bible. God bless! 5 Likes |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by nlMediator: 12:58am On Jul 30, 2013 |
^^ God bless you too. I have no interest in making the thread about you. You’re not that important. But I’ll not stand by while you lie about others. So, your explanation for the lies is rustiness? Then, when they were pointed out, why not acknowledge you may have innocently misrepresented some things? Up till now, you’ve not done such. You can keep on emphasizing flaws. Some of us prefer to focus on the countless numbers of people that have been saved and blessed through Hagin and the WOF movement. 1. Is WOF perfect? No. I encourage people to discuss the scriptures and teachings in love. We all benefit. Iron sharpens iron. 2. WOF teaches confession. I believe many people take it to the excess. I have even criticized that here on this forum. I can see a WOFer confessing for genotype change. I don’t see any serious WOFer confessing that they be changed from man to woman. That’s contrary to WOF teachings. I keep on wondering if you really understood the teachings. First, your faith and confession must be based on the Word of God. Second, you have to believe in your HEART before you expect to see what you confess. For you to give the impression that WOF teaches such extreme crap is what I find upsetting about you. Why can’t you limit your focus to what they really teach, not what you make up? 3. You did the same thing with the definition of faith. So WOF preaches that you should believe God only when it is convenient? And you can point me to where you read it? 4. Hagin’s salvation story is not spectacular. I’ve read the story of his salvation numerous times. At no point did he claim that he had a dramatic experience. I clearly saw the point he was making: that he was unsaved on a death bed for months, died and went to hell. He came back to life and got saved. Every Christian should rejoice at this story. That’s what as Christians we believe: that sinners go to hell. Instead, you found something there to carp about. The originator of this thread has claimed to have had a miraculous salvation experience. When I read it, I felt happy. Such stories confirm to me that Christianity is real. I did not feel that he was trying to equate himself to Apostle Paul. Same with Hagin’s story. A friend of mine got born again after dreaming of rapture. I didn’t see her as claiming to be special. 5. If you do not believe that people still have visions, that’s OK. Many people outside of WOF would disagree with you. 6. The standard you’ve set for who is a false prophet is scriptural. I hope you’ll apply it to every prophet on earth today, not just Hagin and WOFers. I’m sure not one would pass the test. The good thing is that many things Hagin prophesied about came to pass. I like how all of you set a 100% perfection test for WOFers, but not for yourselves. 7. Jesus appearing to people. So, your point is that Jesus cannot appear to anybody today. What a God you serve, who’s limited by your imaginations. That’s your business. I am glad you’ve moved on. I’d never encourage somebody to stay with anything that is bad for them. As for me, I got born again in a WOF fellowship. I grew up spiritually in a WOF setting. Applying some WOF teachings, and by His grace, God has taken me to some of the highest places on earth, beyond my imagination. To Him be all the glory. 1 Like |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by nlMediator: 1:04am On Jul 30, 2013 |
Chibuebem: wow! I hope you were blessed exceedingly My brother, I was abundantly blessed! I got delivered of a vicious attack from the devil. I was reflecting on something Creflo Dollar preached the day before or so while in front of the elevator. Immediately, I experienced the deliverance I needed. I've been free ever since. I didn't even have to pray. Just the Word. And the anointing. Preached by His messenger. I was convinced I'd go back for this year's convention, but other things came up. Will likely attend next year, if Jesus tarries His coming. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 8:48am On Jul 30, 2013 |
nlMediator: Mate, your statement does not change the fact that you are following after false prophets and false teachers, you need to come back to the bible. You do not need to travel for miles to get your healing, except of course your prayers are not working, then you need to check up. The WOLF movement is dangerous for your health. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 8:50am On Jul 30, 2013 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9oBCLwwL0 People like nlMediator and Teeo are the ones making these men rich. SMH at the false gospel and their itching ear gullible followers. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 8:51am On Jul 30, 2013 |
frosbel: Frosbel, good morning.. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Enigma(m): 8:52am On Jul 30, 2013 |
@Tgirl4Real Very well said! Edit: Christians are better advised to avoid people like Hagin (I'm afraid he was a liar), Copeland (a diabolic antichrist, in my view), Creflo Dollar (a grubby cretinous false teacher); it is best to avoid these people and their acolytes who preach their WoF poison like the plague. Sorry to those who are hearing criticism of these "men of gawd" for the first time or who are shocked by the directness. 3 Likes |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 9:14am On Jul 30, 2013 |
teeo: morning Bro. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 9:25am On Jul 30, 2013 |
Let me hint you about a sermon i heard this sunday, the pastor was saying all the right things until he got to a point where he said the following comments. i cant remember exactly how he said it but let me paraphrase. You as members are to be a blessing to your pastor, God has said it the tithes should be brought into the house of God. Some of you would listen to people say all sort of things about your pastors who have private jets, it is not your business, it doesnt concern you if your pastor owns a private jet. Your business is to be a blessing to him and when God blesses you, you can choose to do what you like with yours. He continued, you are not to take your tithe and give to the poor, it is for the church where you are being blessed, God has a protocol(and am like wtf), his protocol fo beggers is alms. You cannot be blessed by your pastor the same way another who writes a cheque for him is blessed The whole of this part went through my ears and came out the other way. I was still blessed by the remaining sermon. Everybody adds a little personality to what they preach as long as it isnt what i know is not a commandment of God, i am not compelled to act on it. I believe in faith and the Living word of faith, simple but no pastor is going to corner me into giving anyhow. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Nobody: 9:43am On Jul 30, 2013 |
Is this the way to do this @ enigma and frosbel  People I respect. Smh. Tell me what Mr. Hagin said that contradicted Gods word, tell me about his false gospel. Nlmember clearly outlaid what Hagin taught in his previous posts(i dont know much about copelands teaching), where do you find fault? Do you not believe Gods word? Muskeeto quoted from Mr. Hagins book about his views on prosperity. Or are you among those who believe every pastor or man of God must be poor. When I believed, God led me straight to the mans books, and they blessed and still bless my life and growth spiritually. They teach me about the faith that made me alive in Christ, and the faith that KEEPS Me alive in Christ. Faith in Gods word is the victory. If you do not know or believe in faith, then i guarantee, no, Gods word guarantees you that you'll lead a poor spiritual life. |
| Re: Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland - Pentecostal Confusion by Enigma(m): 10:14am On Jul 30, 2013 |
Chibuebem Bros First of all, I'd like to say that my opinion is that no preacher or teacher knows it all, even Paul said so. In that sense, if we are nitpickers, we can find fault with any preacher at all. Second, I'd like to say that even those that some of us accuse as false teachers will quite often say accurate and even biblical things; therefore it is still possible to learn from them. Now the danger with the main WoF leaders is this: in one word counterfeit. Check this often used illustration: if I give you a 1000 naira bill and tell you that is e.g. a ten dollar bill, you will laugh at me. If I give you a very well forged 10 dollar bill, you may not immediately suspect me until e.g. if you pass the bill through some form of fake detector. The WoF leaders are in the latter category; they clothe their message with "Christian-speak" or "Christianese", they add some supportable Christian ideas, they quote copiously from the Bible, but at the heart of their message, they hide poison which subverts the message of Christ. Another illustration often used: if I place a bottle of liquid marked clearly "Poison", right thinking people will not drink from it; if I put small poison (though enough to kill) in a bottle of cola, even otherwise sensible people may unknowingly drink the poisoned cola. The WoF message subverts the teaching of Christ in many ways even belittling Christ and God the Father while elevating man to the status of "god": where Christ and the apostles taught contentment, the WoF message teaches "name it and claim it"; and the "positive confession" thing goes beyond just having a positive outlook or trusting in Jesus' statements like "be of good cheer" in that the positive confession thing is seen as being able to create things/realities etc. On whether I think a pastor should be poor, my answer is - 'not necessarily unless that is a calling for him'. On the other hand, a Christian let alone a pastor is not supposed to be obsessed with money and wealth --- which in the end is what WoF does! Have you ever seen Creflo Dollar & co doing the "Money cometh to me" madness on video?  Compare with 1 Timothy 6 These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. 11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen. 17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19 In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life. 2 Likes |
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