Syncan:

I discuss on what is brought up. I do not just bring up issues when the one on ground has not been trashed. The issue of Enoch came up here on this thread and I commented on it. You don't have to be apprehensive, this is not a debate of who wins; but a discuss of facts, where truth is laid out on the table for all to see and meditate on. That's why it pains me when you see what Paul said in 2Thess2:15 and still say "If Paul said...". Or when you see the bible say All scripture is profitable... and you make it look like "Only scripture should...".

Note that I have even called on everyone else to help out on the search for your claim on Enoch date.

You said I should show you something from the bible, I asked you to prove to me why you believed in the bible as the only God's authentic word. Don't you see that it is only when we agree on this that I will now have the obligation of showing you what you desire?

Obviously you didnt even remember the deal i am talking of, you didnt only failed to answer the question but was urging me to keep repeating the question, i then said i will only respond to your question (since someone has already answered mine) if you sign a deal that you will answer my questions in the future without playing around. You get it now? so do we have a deal?

Syncan:

Dear friend, this is what i saw further on: "According to this scholar, who studied the original scrolls for many years, the oldest fragments of the Book of Watchers are dated 200–150 BC" I do not know where you get your info, please let anyone who could access this link verify what superior1 has claimed please. He owes me a thank you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Book_of_Enoch&action=edit&section=14

I am still waiting for you to tell me why you hold the bible as authentic word of God and others not.

200 BC was far short of the time Enoch existed, Enoch existed more than 1000 BC, so how can the book be traced to 200 BC when the author lived millennium years behind the time. The capture of Israel by Babylonia was documented around 600 BC before this time are the Judges, Moses, Jacob, Abraham etc to the time of the flood
(which was the time Enoch lived, that should be maybe 2000 BC), so the book cant be written by Enoch

superior1:

200 BC was far short of the time Enoch existed, Enoch existed more than 1000 BC, so how can the book be traced to 200 BC when the author lived millennium years behind the time. The capture of Israel by Babylonia was documented around 600 BC before this time are the Judges, Moses, Jacob, Abraham etc to the time of the flood
(which was the time Enoch lived, that should be maybe 2000 BC), so the book cant be written by Enoch

You see my problem with you? Are we now determining who wrote Enoch. What I said is that Jude quoted Enoch in his teachings, you said no, that Enoch was written after Jude. You promised to show it here, how come you are now talking BC now? You owe me thanks my friend, be truthful. If we don't speak truthfully, then we will not make progress.

Syncan:

Please tell me among all these churches mentioned, which one does not have devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary even at the time you mentioned.

Please,You may need to study a little before replying, and lets be honest, the truth shall set us free.

I need to understand this question better, what do you exactly mean by the bold?

superior1:

Obviously you didnt even remember the deal i am talking of, you didnt only failed to answer the question but was urging me to keep repeating the question, i then said i will only respond to your question (since someone has already answered mine) if you sign a deal that you will answer my questions in the future without playing around. You get it now? so do we have a deal?

Superior1, I will enlighten you as best as I can on your question. You however will agree to be honest unlike what I've seen so far.

Syncan:

You see my problem with you? Are we now determining who wrote Enoch. What I said is that Jude quoted Enoch in his teachings, you said no, that Enoch was written after Jude. You promised to show it here, how come you are now talking BC now? You owe me thanks my friend, be truthful. If we don't speak truthfully, then we will not make progress.

I just showed you the author of that book wasn't Enoch. Compare when Enoch lived and the period this book came to existence (It is no calculus). The following are from the link you posted

Most scholars share the view[5] that these five sections were originally independent works (with different dates of composition), themselves a product of much editorial arrangement, and were only later redacted into what we now call 1 Enoch.

The older sections (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) are estimated to date from about 300 BC, and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably was composed at the end of the 1st century BC.[2]


Jesus was born in 6 BC, Enoch was alive then?

Syncan:

Superior1, I will enlighten you as best as I can on your question. You however will agree to be honest unlike what I've seen so far.

The question is already answered (Prayer through and in Mary name isnt in the Bible), what i need you to agree is that next time, you will come straight on answers without playing around, ok?

superior1:

I just showed you the author of that book wasn't Enoch. Compare when Enoch lived and the period this book came to existence (It is no calculus). The following are from the link you posted

Most scholars share the view[5] that these five sections were originally independent works (with different dates of composition), themselves a product of much editorial arrangement, and were only later redacted into what we now call 1 Enoch.

The older sections (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) are estimated to date from about 300 BC, and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably was composed at the end of the 1st century BC.[2]

Jesus was born in 6 BC, Enoch was alive then?

Superior1, I said:

Syncan:
Because the book of Enoch is dated 300BC, and you said it was written after Jude about 50AD. Are those who canonized the books in the bible about 400AD not often referred to as early church fathers?

And you said:

superior1:

Because Enoch existed around that time?. So, if I write a book and call it the book of hitler it means the book was written during the lifetime of hitler?. What is the date of the earliest copy of the book of enoch?. I told you the reason that book was never accepted was because it was believed by early Christians to be fraud by an author who wrote it and mentioned Jude 1:14 in it to give it credibility and make it appeared Jude was quoting from it, whereas the opposite was true.

Who is Correct now from your latest quote above,You need to be honest Superior1

free2ryhme:

which one be non-biblical scriptures ooo hia!

Catholics no go kill persin with heresy

chukwudi! chukwudi!! chukwudi!!!

Few examples of non-canonical scriptures...
1 The book of Enoch.
2 The assumption of Moses.
3 The book of Jashar
4 The book of prophet Iddo the seer.

I tried naming those that were quote in the bible but are not part of the canonical books.
There are other ones, but this wil give you a clue of what non canonical scriptures mean.

Syncan:

Superior1, I said:



And you said:



Who is Correct now from your latest quote above,You need to be honest Superior1

You cant be a judge in your own case, i have showed you that book is a fraud and not what is claimed to be. Is the bolded an attempt at being sarcastic?

superior1:

I just showed you the author of that book wasn't Enoch. Compare when Enoch lived and the period this book came to existence (It is no calculus). The following are from the link you posted

Most scholars share the view[5] that these five sections were originally independent works (with different dates of composition), themselves a product of much editorial arrangement, and were only later redacted into what we now call 1 Enoch.

The older sections (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) are estimated to date from about 300 BC, and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably was composed at the end of the 1st century BC.[2]


Jesus was born in 6 BC, Enoch was alive then?

Are you guys discussing the authorship of The book of Enoch and the year it was written, or are you guys trying to show us who quote who between Jude and Enoch?.

superior1:

You cant be a judge in your own case, i have showed you that book is a fraud and not what is claimed to be. Is the bolded an attempt at being sarcastic?

You call a book Jude used in preaching a fraud, claiming it was written after Jude. I showed you it was written before Jude, you have not proved me wrong, as a matter of fact your post supported me. Yet you cannot own up that you were wrong earlier, what do you call that? I am in no way sarcastic, I am speaking frankly.

Sal C: Are you guys discussing the authorship of The book of Enoch and the year it was written, or are you guys trying to show us who quote who between Jude and Enoch?.

If Enoch isn't the author, how can Jude be quoting him?

Syncan:

You call a book Jude used in preaching a fraud, claiming it was written after Jude. I showed you it was written before Jude, you have not proved me wrong, as a matter of fact your post supported me. Yet you cannot own up that you were wrong earlier, what do you call that? I am in no way sarcastic, I am speaking frankly.

My response above also applied to this, answer the question

Sal C: Are you guys discussing the authorship of The book of Enoch and the year it was written, or are you guys trying to show us who quote who between Jude and Enoch?.

Thanks, I was about getting convinced that I missed something. Now he's calling me being sarcastic for pointing out the truth.

superior1:

If Enoch isn't the author, how can Jude be quoting him?

Did the book of Enoch exist before Jude? Ans = Yes 300BC atleast for the first part

Did Jude quote Enoch? Ans = Yes Jude1:14

Which part of Enoch did Jude quote? Ans = 1Enoch1:9

Syncan:


Did the book of Enoch exist before Jude? Ans = Yes 300BC atleast for the first part

Did Jude quote Enoch? Ans = Yes Jude1:14

Which part of Enoch did Jude quote? Ans = 1Enoch1:9

And who is the author of the book of Enoch?
Can you post Jude 1:14 and 1Enoch1:9 and let see if they are exactly the same?

superior1:

If Enoch isn't the author, how can Jude be quoting him?

Nobody is disputing the fact that it was not written by Enoch.

Even if it was written in 200BC, there is no logical proof that it quoted Jude that was written after the birth of Jesus.

superior1:

And who is the author of the book of Enoch?
Can you post Jude 1:14 and 1Enoch1:9 and let see if they are exactly the same?

I don't want to derail this thread but can I also ask you who is the author of Deuteronomy and Hebrews?.

The book of job is the first book in the bible to be written.The much acclaimed books of moses were not actually written by moses.

Even the book of joshua was written after the era of samuel.This is because both Joshua and Samuel says their records are also contained in the books of Jashar.

chukwudi44: The book of job is the first book in the bible to be written.The much acclaimed books of moses were not actually written by moses.

Even the book of joshua was written after the era of samuel.This is because both Joshua and Samuel says their records are also contained in the books of Jashar.

Sal C: I don't want to derail this thread but can I also ask you who is the author of Deuteronomy and Hebrews?.

You guys should open a thread for this discussion. I want to get back to the doctrine of Mary (still many questions without answers)

How did Mary remain virgin for life after the birth of Jesus, how was baby Jesus gave birth to??

Syncan:

Please tell me among all these churches mentioned, which one does not have devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary even at the time you mentioned.

Please,You may need to study a little before replying, and lets be honest, the truth shall set us free.

I believe I said this sometime ago, no response from you superior1. More so, why will I continue this discuss when its now obvious you cannot own up to being wrong even on something so clear as Enoch book is older than Jude. I think I've said enough, when you're ready I will know.

superior1: How did Mary remain virgin for life after the birth of Jesus, how was baby Jesus gave birth to??

Is there anything impossible for God?

Maria-Goretti:
Is there anything impossible for God?

Certainly not Maria, was the delivery of Jesus miraculous? as in Jesus didn't came out from (...where you know) of His mother? like you and I

Pls, can someone help me with songs on our mother mary or a link where I can download the songs.
Haters go hug xformer.

Double27: Pls, can someone help me with songs on our mother mary or a link where I can download the songs.
Haters go hug xformer.

You mean lyrics or audio?

superior1:

Certainly not Maria, was the delivery of Jesus miraculous? as in Jesus didn't came out from (...where you know) of His mother? like you and I

Superior1, you just answered your own question. So, there is no point for further arguement or Clarification.
If nothing is impossible for God, then Mary remaining a virgin after birth of Jesus, is one of those humanly-impossible acts turned possible by God.

superior1:

Certainly not Maria, was the delivery of Jesus miraculous? as in Jesus didn't came out from (...where you know) of His mother? like you and I

His "delivery" was like His Conception. You can figure that out.Thanks

superior1:

I believe in the epistles of Paul and I believe his teachings are fully revealed in the totality of his epistles. I also believe what ever he has written are to be adopted by Christians (He commanded it read to the assembly and in a case to be given to another church). If we deviate to Luther, then we will have to address all the heresy he pointed out in the Roman Catholic Church.

You are still yet to sign the deal i proposed, if you sign it, then why not?

WHERE DID PAUL SAY "ALL MY TEACHINGS ARE IN THE EPISTLES"?

Syncan:

His "delivery" was like His Conception. You can figure that out.Thanks

The Bible recorded His conception as through the Holy Spirit but didn't mention same of His delivery neither did it mention of Mary becoming a virgin after His birth.

superior1:


The Bible recorded His conception as through the Holy Spirit but didn't mention same of His delivery neither did it mention of Mary becoming a virgin after His birth.

My friend,I think you need to read Luke again,the angel's exposition covered both conception and birth.