JF-17 block 3

kabe1:
Although still early days, the JF-17 Block 3 hasn't lived up to the hype.

No new engine

No new hard points

No increased fuel capacity

With AESA, it can only be rated slightly above the F-16 Block 52.

The JF-17 is clearly not enough to meet our future threats.

We really need to stop at 3 units, instead consider the MIG-35, SU-35, J-10C for our future air needs.

The Tucanos and Attack Helicopters can fulfill our COIN needs.

This is not final prototype version for JF17 Block 3. AESA radar is coming, IRST is coming, capability for 100km+ PL 15 missile is coming. I like that there is no pretension to stealth capability but there will be some radar absorbing paint and radar jamming gear. The only stealth technology working is American. Any other claim is a scam.


As for Block 2 we should by 1 squadron and inflight refuelling aircraft.
In order to compensate for JF17 Block 2 inadequacies, we should buy cheap AEW/mini AWACS system and practice frequently to develop capability for air operations aerial control, radar jamming and beam riding long range missile launching.

I support just 3 pieces of MIG 35 kept at 100% operational availability by 2023 expanded to half a squadron by 2025.

And yes, lots of helicopters. 50 pieces at least of the latest MI 35M.

kabe1:


Algeria has a brilliant military.

This is one of the most EXTRAORDINARY wastes of resources by a modern third world country.

Why would a country of intelligent professional defence planners buy this unproven capabilty?
One prototype just crashed in Russia for instance. I suspect as in most Arab countries that Algeria is compensating for a fight-less military doctrinal culture by throwing money into hardware

Jimi24:


This is one of the most EXTRAORDINARY wastes of resources by a modern third world country.

Why would a country of intelligent professional defence planners buy this unproven capabilty?
One prototype just crashed in Russia for instance. I suspect as in most Arab countries that Algeria is compensating for a fight-less military doctrinal culture by throwing money into hardware

This your post makes no sense.

For your information, there has been 2 F-35 crashes.

Probe finds F-35's first crash was caused by manufacturing defect, in revelation that could affect Japan plans to buy aircraft

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/05/12/world/f-35s-first-crash-caused-manufacturing-defect-report/#.Xgj3Ix4o-yU


By your analogy why should any one by the F-35?

Does this make sense to you?

kabe1:


This your post makes no sense.

For your information, there has been 2 F-35 crashes.

Probe finds F-35's first crash was caused by manufacturing defect, in revelation that could affect Japan plans to buy aircraft

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/05/12/world/f-35s-first-crash-caused-manufacturing-defect-report/#.Xgj3Ix4o-yU


By your analogy why should any one by the F-35?

Does this make sense to you?

Read my post mindfully. I am not saying they should not buy because a prototype crashed. I am saying they should not buy because the aircraft is still under development as gar as I am concerned.
Algeria should be asking itself how many SU57s have been deployed by Russia itself?. Also what particular threat gap are they trying to close with this acquisition. If it is unstable Libya, then a new air superiority fighter is of no use. If it is the high capabilities acquired by Morocco and Tunisia, then more upgraded versions of SUs and MIGs are the answer.

The F35s is a fully developed aircraft program already in service with more than ten air forces and the two crashes experienced on the aircraft are so well researched as to be almost expected.
Almost every airforce using F35s now knows the locations on the airframe and frequency of inspection to predict the cracks that cause the failures leading to the crashes . That's the difference a well matured development of an aircraft brings

SuperSixSeven:


We should deal the JF17s with China otherwise we and up Pakistans low-budget variant.

[1] Pakistan JF-17 Block I/II Twin seater presented yesterday
[2] China JF-17 Block III Twin seater (aero-dynamical changes at the Tail and conformal fuel tanks CFT that grant greater range)

Just learned that the Pakis assemble the updated airframe variant of the JF17B.

Jimi24:


Read my post mindfully. I am not saying they should not buy because a prototype crashed. I am saying they should not buy because the aircraft is still under development as gar as I am concerned.
Algeria should be asking itself how many SU57s have been deployed by Russia itself?. Also what particular threat gap are they trying to close with this acquisition. If it is unstable Libya, then a new air superiority fighter is of no use. If it is the high capabilities acquired by Morocco and Tunisia, then more upgraded versions of SUs and MIGs are the answer.

The F35s is a fully developed aircraft program already in service with more than ten air forces and the two crashes experienced on the aircraft are so well researched as to be almost expected.
Almost every airforce using F35s now knows the locations on the airframe and frequency of inspection to predict the cracks that cause the failures leading to the crashes . That's the difference a well matured development of an aircraft brings

Man, you need to understand that Algeria is not as unambitious as Nigeria.

Let me respond to this post very well, so you understand why Algeria needs it.

Morocco is the primary adversary of Algeria. Morocco is getting 24 units of F-16V from the US.

Italy across the Mediterranean has F-35s, including other NATO allies in the region are expected to purchase the F-35. The SU-57 provides that deterrent to both Morocco and NATO members in the region.

The SU-57 that crashed is not a prototype. It was the first serial copy, which was expected to join the Russian air force at the end of this year.

I don't understand the information you're trying to pass with the F-35 comment here, to be honest, it makes no sense.

No Aircraft is fully developed, that's why fighter aircrafts carry out periodic upgrades across the life time of the aircraft service.

The SU-57, F-35, F-22 and J-20 are the world's only 5th Gen multi-role fighters in service. Each aircraft plays to the strength of it's manufacturer/Nation.

Semi-official Algeria is purchasing 4 awacs Beriev A-100

Did Nigerian engineers copy the Ezugwu drivers view from the Type 07P APC from China?

The Type 07P is used by Cameroon army.

kabe1:
Did Nigerian engineers copy the Ezugwu drivers view from the Type 07P APC from China?

The Type 07P is used by Cameroon army.

The design.of the vehicle constrains what drivers screen to buy.

This is most certainly off the shelf buy from China. No need to copy. The engine and chassis also chinese I imagine.

kabe1:


Man, you need to understand that Algeria is not as unambitious as Nigeria.

Let me respond to this post very well, so you understand why Algeria needs it.

Morocco is the primary adversary of Algeria. Morocco is getting 24 units of F-16V from the US.

Italy across the Mediterranean has F-35s, including other NATO allies in the region are expected to purchase the F-35. The SU-57 provides that deterrent to both Morocco and NATO members in the region.

The SU-57 that crashed is not a prototype. It was the first serial copy, which was expected to join the Russian air force at the end of this year.

I don't understand the information you're trying to pass with the F-35 comment here, to be honest, it makes no sense.

No Aircraft is fully developed, that's why fighter aircrafts carry out periodic upgrades across the life time of the aircraft service.

The SU-57, F-35, F-22 and J-20 are the world's only 5th Gen multi-role fighters in service. Each aircraft plays to the strength of it's manufacturer/Nation.

So Algeria is buying an aircraft just going into service in Russia. Okay. That's not smart. Russia is going to be recouping their development costs really fast. Also to be honest, SU 57 5th gen capabilities are mostly non existent or modest at best

I wonder what your qualification is to make these claims

[quote author=Jimi24 post=85333809]

So Algeria is buying an aircraft just going into service in Russia. Okay. That's not smart. Russia is going to be recouping their development costs really fast. Also to be honest, SU 57 5th gen capabilities are mostly non existent or modest at best [/quote]

Jimi24:


This is one of the most EXTRAORDINARY wastes of resources by a modern third world country.

Why would a country of intelligent professional defence planners buy this unproven capabilty?
One prototype just crashed in Russia for instance. I suspect as in most Arab countries that Algeria is compensating for a fight-less military doctrinal culture by throwing money into hardware

Well first there is no official contract with soukhoi about the su57 and even for su35 and su 34 , only rumors


Second as for the F35 many big countries invest in it even from the first prototype . algerian military as a long date big constumer of russian arms know perfectly the russian industry capacity and the sukhoi 57 will be finished for sur . so when you invest early in the devlopment you get better price and better negociation terms and options .

And geopolitic in north africa and west africa is different . its always an arm race in the region to keep the balance . and the security of your country is the first step for developpment . when you finish like libya , syria ...even if you have the ressources you can't develop your country . thats why some countries spend on there security

Germany arms export for 2019

Algeria 2nd (843 million euro)
Egypt 3rd ( 802 million euro )

Jimi24:


So Algeria is buying an aircraft just going into service in Russia. Okay. That's not smart. Russia is going to be recouping their development costs really fast. Also to be honest, SU 57 5th gen capabilities are mostly non existent or modest at best

Can give us proof? How are the SU-57 5th Gen capabilities nonexistent or modest at best?

Have you flown a 5th Gen air craft?

Jimi24:

The design.of the vehicle constrains what drivers screen to buy.

This is most certainly off the shelf buy from China. No need to copy. The engine and chassis also chinese I imagine.

Can you kindly express your thoughts clearly in your comments, I don't quite understand the point you're trying to pass across.

Which is off the shelf purchase, which is copied?

The Ezugwu uses a Mercedes engine.

Nigerian army

kabe1:


Can you kindly express your thoughts clearly in your comments, I don't quite understand the point you're trying to pass across.

Which is off the shelf purchase, which is copied?

The Ezugwu uses a Mercedes engine.

They had a concept for Ezugwu. The concept dictated the type of driver side outside view screen. After that it is just to modify the vehicle external profile to fit the available screens on the global matkrt.
I think NAMVC dont make this driver side outside view screen

kabe1:

Can give us proof? How are the SU-57 5th Gen capabilities nonexistent or modest at best?

Have you flown a 5th Gen air craft?

Stealth / low observability - not good. Lights up on IRST

Supercruise. - just fair

NetCentric warfare ability - very poor

EW suite - poor, maybe just better than J20

AESA radar - fair but reliability issues

IRST - fair

MAWS/other protective systems - poor

Russia is only scamming other countries with fake 5th Gen platforms.

Their real answer to the opposition is hypersonic strike aircraft. This is where they would be throwing their money because they are leading the tech although US railgun technology will destroy everyone of those aircraft when they are fielded.

kabe1:

The situation in Libya is another reason why we need to invest in proper fighter jets.

GNA in Tripoli is supported by Turkey and Qatar, now you have terrorists moving from Syria paid by Turkey to fight in Libya.

LNA in are supported by France, Italy, UAE, Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, Russian mercenaries, Chadian mercenaries.

The fallout of the war in Libya would hit us like a rocket in Nigeria.

How does the GNA & LNA pull "proper fighter jets" into the picture?

Jimi24:


Stealth / low observability - not good. Lights up on IRST

Supercruise. - just fair

NetCentric warfare ability - very poor

EW suite - poor, maybe just better than J20

AESA radar - fair but reliability issues

IRST - fair

MAWS/other protective systems - poor

Russia is only scamming other countries with fake 5th Gen platforms.

Their real answer to the opposition is hypersonic strike aircraft. This is where they would be throwing their money because they are leading the tech although US railgun technology will destroy everyone of those aircraft when they are fielded.

Can you prove these claims?

Have you flown a 5th Gen Jet?

You're making really bold claims with no proof.

Odunayaw:
How does the GNA & LNA pull "proper fighter jets" into the picture?

Both sides use mercenary pilots, but the LNA has the advantage in the air. Their pilots graduated from Jordan. UAE also provides air cover, Air Tractor and Chinese drones.

Jimi24:


They had a concept for Ezugwu. The concept dictated the type of driver side outside view screen. After that it is just to modify the vehicle external profile to fit the available screens on the global matkrt.
I think NAMVC dont make this driver side outside view screen

Forgive me, but I don't understand what you're saying. What message are you trying to pass?

SuperSixSeven:


Just learned that the Pakis assemble the updated airframe variant of the JF17B.

There is no fake JF17. JF17B is a two seater version that was not originally planned for. I believe customers (primarily Nigeria) suggested that it might be a good idea for training. There was an attempt to fit AESA radar into the nose cone of JF17B at some point.

The JF 17 Block 3 airframe is going to be bigger than Block 2. Whoever is seeing the same aircraft is misinformed.
AESA radar is bigger, needs more cooking power. The radar can track more aircraft, see further and engage more aircraft simultaneously. It is also harder to jam.

Algerian2:


Well first there is no official contract with soukhoi about the su57 and even for su35 and su 34 , only rumors


Second as for the F35 many big countries invest in it even from the first prototype . algerian military as a long date big constumer of russian arms know perfectly the russian industry capacity and the sukhoi 57 will be finished for sur . so when you invest early in the devlopment you get better price and better negociation terms and options .

And geopolitic in north africa and west africa is different . its always an arm race in the region to keep the balance . and the security of your country is the first step for developpment . when you finish like libya , syria ...even if you have the ressources you can't develop your country . thats why some countries spend on there security

Libya spent a lot on defence and security but collapsed like the ordinary third world country they were.
National power is not just weapons. Ask Saudi Arabia.

Jimi24:


There is no fake JF17. JF17B is a two seater version that was not originally planned for. I believe customers (primarily Nigeria) suggested that it might be a good idea for training. There was an attempt to fit AESA radar into the nose cone of JF17B at some point.

The JF 17 Block 3 airframe is going to be bigger than Block 2. Whoever is seeing the same aircraft is misinformed.
AESA radar is bigger, needs more cooking power. The radar can track more aircraft, see further and engage more aircraft simultaneously. It is also harder to jam.

the block 3 uses the new RD33W engine...It features similar technologies with the j10 and j20..

Jimi24:


Libya spent a lot on defence and security but collapsed like the ordinary third world country they were.
National power is not just weapons. Ask Saudi Arabia.

Nope libya spent nothing . they were under embargo for 20 years . only old arms and badly maintained from the embargo . they bought nothing new before the NATO attack + the internal insurgency inside job , thats why it was so easy to attack them with no lose for NATO

Jimi24:


Stealth / low observability - not good. Lights up on IRST

Supercruise. - just fair

NetCentric warfare ability - very poor

EW suite - poor, maybe just better than J20

AESA radar - fair but reliability issues

IRST - fair

MAWS/other protective systems - poor

Russia is only scamming other countries with fake 5th Gen platforms.

Their real answer to the opposition is hypersonic strike aircraft. This is where they would be throwing their money because they are leading the tech although US railgun technology will destroy everyone of those aircraft when they are fielded.

where did u get ur info from?

Thats what i asked, weird huh

PrinxArthur1:
where did u get ur info from?

Is it not marvellous?

Pulling out information from his arse and making bold claims with authority.

kabe1:


Both sides use mercenary pilots, but the LNA has the advantage in the air. Their pilots graduated from Jordan. UAE also provides air cover, Air Tractor and Chinese drones.

I still don't know the air arsenal they have/might have that needs "proper fighter jets" to match it