[quote author=mamdanju]In Islam, there is no disagreement among the scholars over the fact that the insane person is not held responsible for his/her acts as long as he/she has that psychological disorder.
Imaam Ahmad (May Allah have mercy upon him) reported from 'Ali Ibn Abi Taalib may Allaah be pleased with him that the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam (may Allaah exalt his mention) said: "The pen is prevented from writing the deeds of three people (i.e. they are excused by Allaah): a sleeping person till he wakes up, a child till he reaches puberty and an insane person till he can reason". [/quo)i do nt believe in what u said.puberty is sexual maturity ,for boys around 13 or14, for girls 11 or13,it has noting to do with reasoning nd sinning.i.have seen 20yrs adult both male nd female that is not sexually matured like ,female ,no breast ,hairs ,or hips.in male no hairs .although it is a genetic/demonic condition.does it mean that because they have nt reached puberty that they are nt responsible for the sins they commit.

mamdanju: In Islam, there is no disagreement among the scholars over the fact that the insane person is not held responsible for his/her acts as long as he/she has that psychological disorder.
Imaam Ahmad (May Allah have mercy upon him) reported from 'Ali Ibn Abi Taalib may Allaah be pleased with him that the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam (may Allaah exalt his mention) said: "The pen is prevented from writing the deeds of three people (i.e. they are excused by Allaah): a sleeping person till he wakes up, a child till he reaches puberty and an insane person till he can reason".

Well spoken brother! ZaadakaAllaahu 'ilman.

They will be judged according to what they've done b4 running mad...dats all

wat abt original sin? i tot u MUST accept christ to be cleansed of it. confusion everywhere 4 dis religion

This thread addresses a very important question that the scripture answers in clear terms. The scriptures give a simple basis for believing that those who are mentally unstable and who happen to die DONT NOT COME UNDER ANY FORM OF JUDGEMENT AFTER DEATH. The Bible at Ecclesiastes 9:10 says 'Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest" (King James Version), "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." (New int'l Version). In addition the scripture still at Ecclesiastes 9:4-5 says this "For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten"[i][/i] (American Standard Bible) "Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion! For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten".

Please don't be quick to dismiss this as "Old Testement Theology" As even the "New Testament" States at Roman 15:4" For whatsoever things were written aforetime, were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope"(King James Version) Again it says At 2 Timothy 3: 16,17 [b]"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works". It is therefore unavoidable that we take into serious consideration what the scripture says on the condition of those who have died, whether they died with full bodily function (who has full "bodily functions" anyway?) Or had a form of disability.

Further incontrovertible corroboration of the scriptures can be found at Roman 6:7 [b]"For he that is dead is freed (acquitted) from sin". This Bible verse carries the same meaning whether it is read as single verse or in the context of its surrounding verse. This makes sense because as God had told our first parents Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden at Genesis 2:16,17 [b]"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". Romans 6:23 says [b]"The wages sin pays is death".The consequence of sinning against God was DEATH which IS the opposite of LIFE. Gods punishment would have been ineffectual and inconsequential if death or dying were a mere transition to another life form (actually, higher form of life).

Thus when Adam sinned they died as God had proposed (Remember...God NEVER LIES) thus paying the price for disobedience. And having paid this price had to be acquitted of this sin as the scripture has said. It is therefore logical and reasonable to conclude that all those who have died face no further judgement on the basis of the sin the committed before they died, as they have been acquitted and are unconscious in the grave as Ecclesiastes 9:4,5,10 say. Roman 5:12 nicely summarises the predicament that we all face as human "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned". From the forgoing, we can conclude that those who have died are non-existent, unconscious, unfeeling etc. Their future remain in God's hand who has a plan for all of these ones.

this is just one the lifetimes the had...

Mr Aboki:




I disagree..


Mental retardation is a fruit of the Devil and thus anyone that has this devil in them is confrimed for Hell.. Ask Jesus..

#just so you knw..
a child wit a an extra chromosome 21 ie trisomy 21 will present clinical conditions associated wit mental disorder in a disease condition known as downs syndrome..
if u imply dat dis child has the devil in dem.. ure ultimately sayin that ure being possesed by d devil on weekly or say monthly basis,as u must hav a least taken medication for diseases like cold and cattarh, malaria e.t.c wic ar all diseases as is down's syndrome...
i hope u die a natural death( though am nt prayin for your death..#wish u long life) because if u die from an illness, based on your post na HELL FIRE TINZ O!

njokusboy:

Am thinking u re mentally retarded urself... I don't think its the fruit of the devil though...maybe you were knocked as soon as u were delivered..

i hate to argue on nairaland about spirital things cause its pointless. everyone comes with prejudices and leaves here with those prejudices. no one hardly learns or change their opinions after reading comments here. but let me put it to you that sickness is not a God spirit trait. it is not God's will that any man be sick.the spirt of God is supposed to manifest in our physical.any man who does not have the spirit of God in him is in sin and is a sinner. now im not saying falling sick is a sin, but living with contempt in sickness is sin i.e, not seeing sickness as a curse and as something the spirit of God does not approve, you are sinning. sin is beyond just disobeying the ten commandments. i employ we all study the word more and pray to God for revelation and understanding of his word.

Most of you guys are apparently sick with the stupid and irritating comments that you post. Rubbish...His parent are reaping what they sow. Does this make sense to you. Are you I'll?

voltron: Thank God Terry G will finally get what he deserves

The devil really works on our ignorance. if only we really study God's word and key into the power of the resurrection, 99% of all these kind of threads will not exist. Christ already made it clear that he will send us the Holy sprit who will teach us all things and lead us all the way.the devil works on this lack of and thats why many christians are so dull.there is a level you can reach in the spirit that you get clear and very vivid directions from the holy spirit. this kind of manifestation depends on your revelation of the of him. that pastor you so much idolize and adore, the spirit in him, is the same spirit Christ promised to send to us all. you may even have in but may be manifesting in a much lower relm. your pastor has a greater manifestation of the spirit simply because of the revelation he has of the spirit. its no magic that your pastor lays hands on a sick person and that sick person becomes becomes healed instantly but when you do the same, nothing happens.no he does not have extra grace than you, God has made it clear in his word that he has provided us with equal grace. and how do you get a greater revelation of the spirit? simple, by asking through prayer and by constant renewing of your hearts through studying his word. theres never enough of reading your bible, it doesnt matter if you ve read it hundred times before. what you understood by reading a particular passage of the scripture yesterday, may have a different meaning today when you read it. this is how the holy spirit teaches us. thats when i laugh when i see anti-christs quoting the bible and trying to use logic to give it meanings. we just need to stop being lazy first and get to work. there are many things you as a child of God, are not ment to suffer or be associated with. but because we do not know these things, the devil works on our ignorance and imposes the things on us and we live in contempt with these things. in summary, build your self up as a christian. no man, i reapet no man is saved by identifying your self with a particular religous group, denomination or church. niether are you saved by the works you do for God, but we are only saved by the power of the death and resurection through christ who through that, paid the price of redemtion. all you need to do is key into this faith and live by the giudiance of the holy spirit whith him dwelling in you.

phtemie: So far he was born mentally deranged,then he has no problem.Heaven awaits him.But assuming he was not born that way,God would judge him based on his deeds before he went mad.

God judges no man based on his deeds instead he judges the state of your heart. you are saved by his grace and your faith in his grace. judged based on ones deeds? if so, if ones bad deeds OUT-NUMBERS his good deeds at the point of his death, then he will go to hell regardless of the state of heart or if he has been forgiven by God after he genuinely asked for forgiveness.

i think they will be judged based on the life they led before their insanity. Example, if a man who slept with someone's wife was jazzed! such a man sure committed sin before madness started naw!!!!



my one cent anyways!

striktlymi:

If the lad was born that way and he sincerely has no knowledge of what he is doing then you shouldn't worry much about his soul cause he is closer to the gates of heaven than those of us who can tell wrong from right.

Yep!
But if he or she has a sense of sin then he will not be judged. Science proved that new born babies develop d sense from 6 month.

made2fit: Since we are all born sinners,what becomes of autistic individuals or mentally challenged people who do not have the ability to receive Jesus as Lord? Are they doomed forever? Remember that their spirits r ungenerated or do they have automatic salvation on account of their condition? Belivers only pls.

the benefits of a merciful God. Free tickets to heaven

Well i fink madnes won't cum upon some1 without a reason of sin except in sum cases wher a true Xtian has worries nd anxiety. In d 1st case, my dear judgment is imminent, 2nd case no probs.

omotayokay: The guy or his parents have sinned and they are reaping the fruits of their sins. Nevertheless, it maybe that the works of God be made manifest through him. Except he be healed, the guy can do but nothing when it comes to serving God hence, after his stay here on Earth, I hope God gives him another chance. If not, he will be judge according to the works of his previous life! Are you happy now?

Really Judged by his previous life? is that even Christianity you are talking about?

According to the proofs derived from authentic Ahadith and the unanimous view of Islamic scholars, these group of people- the lunatic, deaf and dumb, aborted fetus older than 4 months- are called ahalul fatirah and they shall be judged on the day of resurrection through a gross test- by commanding all of them to proceed into hell fire- so a group of them will obey and the other will resist, stating their reasons to God almighty why they are not fit for hell ( because they were not sane, healthy and so). The group that obeyed the commandment will be called back and granted paradise, while the other group that refused will be casted into fire. It will be said to them; if you have lived a normal life, the group that accepted and obeyed that commandment would have followed and obeyed God while the group that rejected would have disbelief. But as for those who inherent the defects due to their handiwork, the pen will be lifted for them during the period of their insanity, and they will be judged as regards to their previous deeds.

[quote author=stankezzy][/quote] they are mature! Though with no puberty xteristics. That condition is an abnormal one- maybe due to under expression of certain maturity gene or absence of an hormone

striktlymi:

If the lad was born that way and he sincerely has no knowledge of what he is doing then you shouldn't worry much about his soul cause he is closer to the gates of heaven than those of us who can tell wrong from right.

but the bible is expressly clear about heaven's requirement which the mental once can't fulfil

Justgenesis:

Really Judged by his previous life? is that even Christianity you are talking about?

Ofcourse i was talkin biblically...God is a just God!

Av also thought abt dis issue b4 and i later came to find out dat they will av judgement bt on one condition...if d individual was mentally disordered because of his/her evil deed then no remedy bt if d maddness was actually by birth he hath no sin

Well, if he plays no part in his current situation (if he was given birth to that way) he is really free from the sense of right and wrong. He may be doing wrong, but he hasn't willingly committed sin (doesn't have any sense of reasoning) I recognise the good heart of the poster, that was the love Jesus preached about. As for his judgement, we have to trust God completely because we already know him to be a righteous judge..Thanks.

omotayokay:

Ofcourse i was talkin biblically...God is a just God!

What Bible? Please a Bible verse to back this is probably a good idea. Previous life? Good grief. It is appointed unto man once to die and after that judgement. That is what your Bible says.

titilayo.1993:
Av also thought abt dis issue b4 and i later came to find out dat they will av judgement bt on one condition...if d individual was mentally disordered because of his/her evil deed then no remedy bt if d maddness was actually by birth he hath no sin

Really please back this up with something. It almost sounds like people consult native doctors and then apply what they are told to Christianity

Lol the first page of this thread is so funny