peedeeasobie: This is a sentimental and emotional thread! Nothing spiritual at all. Go and find out how many churches have been closed thru posts like ds- NONE! Go and find out how many churches dat have reduced tithe incomes in d their accounts because of posts like these- NONE!
U can only correct someone thru prayer or one-on-one correction!
Stop using worldly methods to correct the CHURCH! Don't bcome the "suppose" evil u are trying to fight! Are u led by the spirit of activism or the Spirit of God!

I have not even started :


" Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[e] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’[f]” - Matthew 21:12

Proudly a Nigeria where such pastors don't exist

ooshinibos:

IT IS SCRIPTURAL FOR A CHRISTIAN OR PASTOR TO BE RICH , PEOPLE DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT RICH IMAMS AND MUSLIM when a christian is rich the devil panicks , I PRAY THAT ALL MY PASTORS BE ABUNDANTLY RICH MORE THEN THEIR ENEMIES

which scripture?

Mindset matters a lot, u wil nt achieve anytin wen u giv aving it in mind dat uar only enriching ur pastor, so if uav dat mindset, is beta u dot give atall, keep d moni 2 ursef. Bt if u wish 2 continue wondering abt it, belv me u wil remain @same spot stil wondering abt it while d world is moving ahead of u

This your post reminds me Femi Kuti's album' Wonder Wonder' Na pastor live dey better the people dey suffer! I don't really blame the pastors but their gullible followers that treats their pastors like God. For instance how can a pastor purchase an air plane while you the follower remains in the church un employed?

oloriooko: so many babblers on this forum, why don't you start your own church and show them how to run it!
stop hating and start acting!

thank you my guy o jare!
i wonder why this guy whoever he is, could come out to say such words to the pastors he agrees to be who they call themselves.
if you think you can do it better, simply start yours and show them the right way to do it. stop making noise here instead do something.
God has not selected you to police these people and your blabbing on such forum as this is of no effect and is already a big problem on you and your generations unborn.
you need to understand what it means to talk ill of these people whom you have no idea of when and what God called them to do. if you truly care about the situation, you would have resulted to your knees instead of your mouth.
God help you ooo

haibe:

As much as i usually love some of your posts, the bit of ignorance it possesses spoils it all making it look like your post doesn't have any truth in it(it does).

Solution: Try to see things in a pragmatic way, some of your claims against such pastors can only be possible theoritically, not in reality. For example, if a pastor is rich, being the spiritual fathers of his members, they are also expected to be rich(theoritically, all things being equal) but what if the members are lazy, refusing to pray like the pastor, not following the natural principles of success in life, infact what if the members are not save at all?? Do you expect them to be rich??

In a church that has millions of members, is it the wealth of one single person(the pastor) that will cater for them all, abi shey pastor no get family too??

I support the fact that pastors should help their members financially but its in reality not possible for him to cater for the financial needs of every single member(in order words there are bound to be poor members).

When a pastor doesn't help at all, then there is a problem, but if he does to a reasonable extent(even though it doesn't seem to obvious), then he has tried and shouldn't be accused of anything.

The fact that Jesus(being capable of providing financially for his followers) had follower doesn't mean they were all rich, i mean it doesn't mean there weren't poor people among all his followers, but they continued following him because of the spiritual needs they get from him.

Same thing happens to most members, they don't come to church money-minded but for spiritual re-fillment, and so not bordered about the riches of their pastors(which is scriptural) knowing he must have done a enought in helping the needy but definitely can't help all.

In conclusion, 'some people' remain poor because of their own actions, and you shouldn't blame it on pastors, even if Jesus were to lead us again, some people will still remain poor simple because they have not followed both natural and spiritual laws of success.. E.g, hard work is a natural law of success, being saved, praying, trusting God are spiritual principles for success too.

So bro frosbel, i think you should consider a lot of factors that make members poor before putting the blame of pastors, am sure king solomon wouldn't have made all the people of God rich like him at his time. God bless you.

My point is not that a Pastor should meet all the needs of his members through his own hard work, if he can , good.

My point is a Pastor should never collect money from his broke members and even rich members , and use it on other useless projects while his members are in dire need.

adorable29: I agree with some of d points but disagree wit some others! Firstly, everybody can't be rich. There are goin to be poor ones till eternity. Secondly are you sayin pastors shouldn't be blessed with wealth? Well, i think they "worked hard" 4 their money after all not all pastors are rich. Suffice to say that not all wealthy pastors are fake... Anyway, who are we to judge?

"worked hard for their money" wrong statement

D church alwys advise members 2 b in church units, der u wil gt all d hep u wat wen u need dem. U can't b a sunday sunday worshipper nd expect d church 2 care 4u, no way also ders church office where u go nd ask 4 hep, u can't gt hep untill u ask 4 it

ooshinibos:

IT IS SCRIPTURAL FOR A CHRISTIAN OR PASTOR TO BE RICH , PEOPLE DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT RICH IMAMS AND MUSLIM when a christian is rich the devil panicks , I PRAY THAT ALL MY PASTORS BE ABUNDANTLY RICH MORE THEN THEIR ENEMIES

While you remain poor?

gerrardomendes: who shall bring a charge against God's elect? God shall judge. go and find out wot happened to miriam wen she spoke against moses. Aaron was wise enough to keep quiet. Moses was wrong but the annointing on him fought miriam. Even when saul was wrong, David even in his capacity couldnt judge him.(numbers 12: 1-10,2Sam. 1:1-14).

....and why does everything about pastors make frontpage?. God can still smote pple wit leprosy.

This is exactly how you "pastors" threaten your subjects. You make them FEAR. You quote a bible passage where fire and brimstone will rain on the person that doesn't 'give' to God. God is watching you all.
Somebody just brought the truth to light, tell the ppl that it is not true that most pastors are seeking their pocket far more than they are seeking the well being of their congregation. You're busy making threats in the name of God. God forgive u.

Ibfred: Idleness
is the main cause of this hopeless and degrading thread... you think
saying all this rubbish is going to stop the Good Work Of God? You're
just jobless... Get a life dude.

Guy what is good in Nigerians?
there are churches in every street in Nigeria,yet we are the most corrupt Nation in the world,even Nations who aint religious as we- keep it real with their principles and enjoy a better society.
God is great and good,but Nigerians are not worshiping God in spirit and truth,Nigerians are worshiping the God of the earth,eye service devotion and hypocrisy.
they like a pastor who is like them,living and drowning in materialism.
self deceit,thats why we have more criminal minded politicians than any Nation in the world because our society has no values-its all about the money.
A young man with no job and chance of making money will start selling the gospel,and all the street bitches that keep f-cking different men every night will rush with their 10% to him to satisfy their own soul-shame.
God can never ever accept our culture of mediocrity and hypocrisy-we must go higher and stop accepting double standards.
even Jesus disliked hypocrites more than anything else.

I always tell them to emancipate themselves from mental slavery...those with 3-figure IQs listen to me.

Read John 21:15-17, Jesus instructed Peter, the head of the church to feed His sheep. The early pastors fed Jesus's flock but today, majority of these so called men of God are feeding on the sheep, they have reversed the instruction of the master, their judgement is imminent, the Lord is at hand, cheers!

yuzedo: [size=18pt]LETS NAME NAMES!! [/size]

Let's go there!
Bishop Oyedepo
G.O Adeboye
Pastor Chris Oyakilome
Pastor Chris Okotie
Pastor Sign Fireman
TB Joshua
Ashimolowo
The Lord's Chosen pastor (can't remember his name now)
TREM's Bishop
CAN's President Oritsejiafor
WF Kumuyi

To be contd...

spongeback: Truth be told I don't give tithe or offerings, I prefer to give my money to people that need it.

Same here...

God doesn't have a bank account - heck, the idea that God ''needs'' or ''requires'' my money is even ludicrous. And any priest/pastor that claims giving the money to him/his church is the only way to tithe is a charlatan. The poor and needy need it more, not some fat, shapeless, jet-riding pastor. The creator who sees all will bless me, not some priest/pastor doling out anointing according to the amount you tithe.

shejane: Mindset matters a lot, u wil nt achieve anytin wen u giv aving it in mind dat uar only enriching ur pastor, so if uav dat mindset, is beta u dot give atall, keep d moni 2 ursef. Bt if u wish 2 continue wondering abt it, belv me u wil remain @same spot stil wondering abt it while d world is moving ahead of u

Guy are we worshipping God so he makes us rich-its that the goal?
pagans,atheist and all are billionaires.
are you guys dumb?
A man will tell you if you don't give him your 10% God will not bless you.
if you don't know-God loves us unconditionally.God will bless you even if you don't give money to your pastor.
God weighs our hearts,not what we do cos we are told to by a man.

gerrardomendes: who shall bring a charge against God's elect? God shall judge. go and find out wot happened to miriam wen she spoke against moses. Aaron was wise enough to keep quiet. Moses was wrong but the annointing on him fought miriam. Even when saul was wrong, David even in his capacity couldnt judge him.(numbers 12: 1-10,2Sam. 1:1-14).

....and why does everything about pastors make frontpage?. God can still smote pple wit leprosy.

I rebuke your threats , they are empty, out of context and ungodly.

spongebuny:

"worked hard for their money" wrong statement

hence I put the "worked hard" in quote. If you think its that easy, go set up a church nd lemme see how many private jets u can acquire. U think say e easy?

The easiest way to make it in Nigeria is to just open a Church or join Politics..

Politics and Religion, no difference.

Politicians are thieves and Religious leaders are Thieves.

Again @Op nd his supporters, ders so many tins 4u 2 bother ursef wt oda den offerings nd tithe enriching pastors, der ar tins lyk, ar u born again? Do u hep ur neighbour wen he or she is in need? Hw often do u visit motherless home? Hw wil pple remb u wen u die? Hw prepared hw u 4 God nt tihte nd offerings my dear

@ mr frosbel,

you lack spiritual understanding and training.
your post depicts your shallow understanding of spiritual truth and it shows your deep craving for material wealth.
if you know what you are trying to say, your approach would have been different and purposeful.
seem, you always look for topics that can bring you to the frontpage at same time deceive many with your evil machinations of protecting the church while actually you are an agent from the pit of hell to destroy the church from within.
you have failed and your actions will not only put you in serious trouble but your future generations will also actively partake of your demonic acts.
better you repent, pray for the church instead of trying to destroy it cos no human can bring down the Church of Jesus Christ.

It is unfortunate how people open their mouth and talk about pastors and their wealth this people do not breakthrough overnight, do you know how many years they have been suffering in the ministry before they could make impact in the life of people. Go and open your own church you will know how easy or difficult to breakthrough even if you have genuine call. may God forgive you all

wwwkaycom:
Read John 21:15-17, Jesus instructed Peter, the head of the church to feed His sheep. The early pastors fed Jesus's flock but today, majority of these so called men of God are feeding on the sheep, they have reversed the instruction of the master, their judgement is imminent, the Lord is at hand, cheers!

Guy Nigerians are fools-just cos a man comes and tells you God anoints you,yet he reeks of materialism and you believe...it shows they don't know the God they say is their father.
or maybe they enjoy the type of pastor that does not admonish them to make them conscious and sober,instead focuses on materialistic upliftment,cos thats what they want to hear.
these Nigerians are lost-they keep encouraging false pastors who can not tell politicians that what they do is wrong.
they dont even look at the examples of Jesus Christ.
If Christ was here today,i bet you these religious fools will not follow him,they will say he is poor.

FALLACY OF SEED SOWING (2 TIMOTHY 3: 6, 4:3-4) We are in the heart of the last days and the prophecies of the scripture are being fulfilled in our very own eyes, daily. Today if you turn to virtually every corner of the city, you see a church or ministry as they are called now. Frankly, most believers in Christ misconstrue the meaning of church, ministry and denomination. That is a message for another time though. The Scripture says in 2 Timothy 3: 6-7, “For this sort are they which creep into houses, and led away captive silly women laden with sins, led away with diverse lusts, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” In 2 Timothy 4: 3-4 it says, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lust shall they heap to themselves teachers with itching ears; “And they shall be turned unto fables.” In Micah 2: 11, the Scripture says, “If a man walking in the spirit and falsehood do lie, saying I will prophesy unto thee of wine and strong drink; he shall even be the prophet of this people.” This scriptural verse agrees with 2 Timothy 4:3-4, all that most ‘followers of Christ’ want in these last days, are self- edifying sermons, not necessarily what God wants them to do. The reigning message is no longer, ‘seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all other things shall be added unto you,’ but sow seed in the church or ministry and whatever you want shall be added unto you, in the preacher’s declared measures. I think every believer with the spirit of discernment ought to know where this heretic doctrine comes from. Most Christians are very deficient and lazy in searching the scripture to listen to what God wants them to understand about His purpose for their lives, but run to places where all manner of teachings and doctrines are taught. We prefer to follow the easy way where multitudes are found while neglecting the caution that says ‘the path that leads destruction is broad and narrow is the way and strait is the gate that leads to eternal life’. The first time I heard of the sowing of seed was when I came to Jos newly. On 9th September 2001, the Sunday after the Friday 7th September 2001 Jos North ethno-religious crisis, I went to a church in Kufang. After the sermon, the pastor of the church said that there was need for us to pray so that we will have a peaceful week, which was good. But what troubled me was, when he asked who will sow seed of three thousand naira (N3000.00), two thousand naira (N2000.00) and one thousand (N1000.00) and so forth. I was wondering when the Lord has changed his principle of answering prayers by grace, to answering prayers by sowing of seeds. I was invited to a program in a church some few years back at FDA Road Dadin Kowa Jos; a pastor from a different church was invited to preach. He preached wonderfully about the last days and the maneuvers of Satan to destroy the church, but after the sermon he said that those who would want to escape the snares of the devil should sow seed of two thousand naira (N2000.00) to be prayed for. And if they didn’t have the cash on them at the moment, they should make pledges. Those pastors are cunning with words and intimidate their congregation into sowing seeds; otherwise, their prayers will not be answered. In fact that same pastor gave a testimony, where he said in his church the Lord told them to bring plastic chair each, but a lady refused. So one day when she was preparing for her wedding, he met her and reminded her about the chair, but she didn’t take heed. On her way to the village he said, a car lost control and drove straight to where she sat in a bus, and hit it hard and she died. According to him, she died because she refused to bring a plastic chair to his church, by implication, it can be said that she went to hell because she refused to bring a plastic chair to a church. Candidly, only Satan can do that and not Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. When has God dropped faith to embrace material things as a condition for inheriting his promises? His word says, “Without faith it is impossible to please Him.” (Hebrews 11: 6). In James 1: 5-6 it is written, “If any man lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally and up braideth not; and it shall be given him. “But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavers is like a wave of the sea driven with wind and tossed.” When Peter met the lame man at the Gate called Beautiful, the man did not sow seed before Christ healed him through Peter, but his faith. The woman with the issue of blood was not healed by Christ because she sowed seed, but her faith. I can go on and on. The people that believe such pastors don’t have the spirit of God. The spirit of God is not the author of confusion, and is full of knowledge and wisdom. I want those that sow seeds for prayers by their pastors to tell me, the prayers they do before eating their food, their morning devotion, before embarking on a journey and so on, to whom do they sow seeds to? Are they not the prayers of faith? If you believe that praying at night before going to bed will move God to protect your family, why would you believe that sowing seed is prerequisite for God to answer your prayers on other issues?. What is it that you have that has not been given to you by God? And what will you give to God to bless you and how much do you worth to buy His blessings? He said, “The Heaven is my throne and the earth my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? And where is my place of rest? “For all these things had mine hand made, and all those things have been saidth the LORD: but to this will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit and trembleth at my word.” Isaiah 66: 1-2. To prove further that God is more interested in our hearts, Jesus Christ said that if you bring your offering to the alter, and remember that someone has something against you, leave your gift at the alter and go and reconcile first. With these how can someone tell you that it is the seed, and you believe? Apostle Paul through the spirit of God said, “Let us come with boldness unto the throne of grace to obtain help in time of need.” In Hebrews 4: 16 Jesus said, “He that comes to me in no wise will I cast him away.” Why is it that you cannot go to the throne of grace with boldness so much that you have to sow seed for someone to pray on your behalf? Is there fire at the throne of grace? Has God cast you away? Why fall prey to these Sooth Sayers that pose as servants of God? Christ said, “Come unto me ye that labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest, do you exclude yourself from this call? Matthew 11: 28. Christ wants you to come to him directly, he is not a terrorist. How many seeds did you sow, that made God sent Him to die for you and I? If his death was free, where did God say you must sow seeds for Him to hear your prayers? God cannot be bribed. God spoke through the Psalmist saying, “I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he-goats out of thy folds. For every beast of the forest are mine and the cattle upon thousand hills. “I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine. If I were hungry, I would not tell thee; for the world is mine, and the fullness thereof. Will I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats? “Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the Most High: And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.” Psalm 50: 9-15 Brothers and sisters God wants us to ask in faith and not sow seed for our prayers to be answered. Christ paid the supreme sacrifice; all that He wants from us is to reach out to Him in faith.

This was the kind of thing Americans were witnessed in the '60s. Look at America now. Free thinkers. If pastors continue like this, Nigeria may end up like America or Europe (EU constitution is the only one that never mentioned God for once). Then we won't be worried about just our economy alone...

Rollingbiz: It is unfortunate how people open their mouth and talk about pastors and their wealth this people do not breakthrough overnight, do you know how many years they have been suffering in the ministry before they could make impact in the life of people. Go and open your own church you will know how easy or difficult to breakthrough even if you have genuine call. may God forgive you all

Shut up is a pastor God?
A true pastor will share his wealth with the poor.
Jesus told the rich man that came to him for salvation and i quote "take all you have and share to the poor" the rich man walks away cos he loves his wealth more than people.
you are blinded,not everyone that call father is called by the Father.

ProPastorChris: @ mr frosbel,

you lack spiritual understanding and training.
your post depicts your shallow understanding of spiritual truth and it shows your deep craving for material wealth.
if you know what you are trying to say, your approach would have been different and purposeful.
seem, you always look for topics that can bring you to the frontpage at same time deceive many with your evil machinations of protecting the church while actually you are an agent from the pit of hell to destroy the church from within.
you have failed and your actions will not only put you in serious trouble but your future generations will also actively partake of your demonic acts.
better you repent, pray for the church instead of trying to destroy it cos no human can bring down the Church of Jesus Christ.

"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather [size=13pt]expose them.[/size]" - Ephesians 5:11

I can tell the churches building Big Auditoriums,Camps and Universities seems to be the scammers.Most of all this exotic lifestyles are mostly practised by Nigerian and Ghanaian Pastors.When I was in London,I attended Church of England(Anglican),pastors there don't accept gifts from church members and they dont operate big Auditorium churches.They hardly preach abt tithes and offering.I also remember when I was in my hundred level,I and my room mate then attended a small church one which we even used bench to sit and I can tell you they bring beans,Rice and Garri,Spaghetti and other food stuffs for us with money as welfare package.How many Big churches do these.As for me I can't go to any big church am satisfied wit the small ones.

cold:
Let's go there!
Bishop Oyedepo
G.O Adeboye
Pastor Chris Oyakilome
Pastor Chris Okotie
Pastor Sign Fireman
TB Joshua
Ashimolowo
The Lord's Chosen pastor (can't remember his name now)
TREM's Bishop
CAN's President Oritsejiafor
WF Kumuyi

To be contd...

I will continue for you:
Pastor Zilly Aggrey
Pastor David Ibiomeye
Pastor Adefarasin
T.D Jakes
Renhad Bonnke..........

Afro connect:
stick to the issue-or do you think a materialistic pastor,who chops congregation's offerings and such without minding the poor and widows is pleasing God?
don't be an educated fool,objectivity makes you see clearly.

And did I derail the thread, what's the business of the congregation with a money they gave to God. They should ask the pastor how he gets their money over to God. If a congregation is soo bothered about what happens to the money, he should not give. No be by force naa. Abi dem they kill put.