@ Siena

it really depends on the kind of debt - would you suspend paying tithes till your mortgage was fully paid? That sounds a tad ridiculous to me, considering it takes on average 20 years to pay off a mortgage.

How can somebody looking for work with Shell pay a 'tithe' of 1.5million? Meaning he earned 15 million in that period? If he did not earn 15m, then it was not a 'tithe' and cannot be regarded as such and thus that point is of no relevance to this discussion.

The one question I keep posing is this - if tithes are technically 10%, how come this 10% has now become what will pay off all the debts? If the debts are small enough to be paid off by a mere 10% of your income, then I'm sure there are other ways of liquidating that debt by cutting back in some other areas. That is one of the points I am trying to make. Does that seem reasonable or not?

@debosky
Stop deceiving your self and everybody else, tithing is not required of you as christian (if you are ) in the first instance there is more than enough evidence in the scriptures to butress this point which has also been discussed on various threads on this forum. so the issue of paying tithes in the first instance does not even arise talk less of the need to suspend it. What is required of christians is freely offerings which is supposed to be given cheerfully and not with the fear that your creditor would come after you for not being able to meet your obligations to them.

Debosky, I don't regard my mortgage as a debt.

It becomes a debt, if the payments are not up to date, due to default payment.

abasifo: You need to walk away from this bondage of tithing. No believer is subject to the tithe. A pastor I know has good materoials on these: Believers are not subject to the Tithe, and The Trial of Pastor Enoch.

Even offerings as practiced in most churches today, na lie! See another post titled The lie about giving to God.

@naomijt
God bless you for the links you just provided, i have posted one of them on a new thread so most nairalanders can enjoy and benefit from it.

Infact , this have been bothering me for about two months now. am in a dilemma concerning this topic. recently my office approved a cash advance of some amount for me. a certain percentage of my salary will be deduct at the end of every month to service the cash advance. with this arrangement, my take home was supposed to be able to take care of my tithes. but, a week after i got the money, our management suddenly change rules that all cash advance have to be paid back under 4 months. this left me with little or nothing at the end of each month, infact i have nt paid my tithe 4 about 2 months now and my conscience is really disturbing me because i have been faithful in my tithing ever since. I am just confuse. reactions to this are welcome.

@gesture
You are not under obligation to pay tithes as a christian so don't let anyone deceive you. If you are confused on this issue i suggest you read Hebrews 7 form verse 1 to the end, special emphasis on verse 5, 11-13,18-19. You would discover that the law of tithes is clearly stated to have been done away with. If you still are in any doubt about tithes read deuteronomy 14 :22-29, this chapter defines what tithes is and you would understand that it is not 10% of your income to be given to the church. It is actually 10% of agricultural produce which you are meant to eat out of it in the presence of God with your family and also to give to the less priviledge. the levites were also included becos thy had no property of their own. But today levites no longer exist and the pastors who claim represent levites today have plenty properties. So in effect if a pastor wants to collect tithes today he first as to give up the right to own property like the levites deed.

@gesture: As the previous poster has said, u are not obligated to pay any tithe to anybody. One, the tithe was a commandment to Jews, and you are not a Jew.

Two, Jesus put the Law away for good on the cross.

Finally, if you will go through the passages that talk about tithes, you will find out that Biblically, tithes was not about money.

Feel free to spend your money, and to help others with it. God bless.

Pls one shouldn't suspend your tithing just to pay off debts.


You'll pay off your debts quicker with tithing because the heavens will be opened for you and God will rebuke the devourers and cankerworms in your behalf.

you can not suspend tithes because you want to pay your debt because it compulsory for a christian to pay tithe so far is working and earn money and is looking for more blessing, you have to follow the rules in malachi chapter 3 and God cannot say something and still dont do it because is not a man, weather we human being like it or not we all pay tithes, for examples some pay their tithes in hospital, some in police station, some in unbearable circumstance that can not be explain, so we all pay tithes in all ramification of our life. ezekieleco@yahoo.com

Tithing is a personal thing between you and God, so why all the fuss? If u dont want to tithe, then dont, but for me it is my personal Obligation to God, which of you has ever seen God ? So you think the Pastor gets all the money, what about spreading the Gospel and all the rest, is it for free, dont they have families ? So you want them to go and steal eh ?

See, if u give to the Church, you give to God, Simple, forget about what they do with the money, it is between them and God, the money u spend for drugs , hospital Bills and all the rest, why dont u ask your selves what they do with the money

Forget all those crap about old testament stuff as espoused by some people in this forum, saying that it no llonger neccessary, then why was the old testament added ?

When the Prophets prophesied, it became fulfilled in the new testament, see an example from Matt 12:17, matt 5:18

So forget all the crap people say, tithe if you want to, it is between you and God, and not man, well if you dont want to do it, then Dont !

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord

Despite all the overwhelming evidence that we have posted on various threads that tithing as it obtains in today's churches is completely unscriptural and not required of christians some people are still hell bent on keeping them selves under this bondage, i now know why 419 thrives there are too many munguns in this world waiting to be swindled. E bi like say i go go open my own church and start preaching the about the "wonderful blessings" attached to tithing, at least one thing is certain there are enough munguns that would pay me their tithes every month

the truth of the matter is that tithe paying wont get you a ticket to heaven?But it is an ordinance we must adhere to, it's a debt we owe God, so the idea of foregoing tithe to pay another dept because you feel its optional is very wrong! Have you ever wondered how the church is run? how it organises its programmes? The levites needed the tithes to maitain the house of God the same way your church council needs your own tithe, and they's a blessing, a heavy one that accompanies tithing see malachi 3:10. God doesnt lie, he is good, he is a stronghold in the day of trouble, he knows them that trust him. FORGET what you think is done with the money, tithing is between you and God.
So please lets continue paying our tithes the church and its work cannot be done on the N10 and N20 we give as offering,

In my opinion, tithe should be paid by revelation and not without having the basic understanding of why it should be paid. The bible says that a person who doesn’t pay his tithe has ROBBED God. A person that would rather pay off his debt, instead of his tithe needs more revelation of God’s word because God isn’t after consuming what you have, He increases and multiplies what you have.
By paying your tithe, you are giving him an opportunity to multiply what you’ve given and also give you all round prosperity.

As the bible says "my people perish for lack of knowledge" it really amazes me that despite all the overwhelming evidence in the bible several of which we have posted on this thread and can be verified by those that have been mis-led by their churches people are still saying that we must pay tithes as christians. What would it cost a christian to read Hebrews 7 : 5-18 were it is very clearly stated that tithes is not required of christians. Enough of this ignorance abeg, as christians we should learn to live by the spirit and study the word so as not to be decieved

WHY UNA DEY WORRI UNA SELF, GIVE IF U WANT TO, IF U NO WANT LEAVE AM, GOD NO DEY FORCE PERSON
AFTERALL WHY HIM LEAVE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT FOR THE MIDDLE OF THE GARDEN OF EDEN ? NA PERSONAL CHOICE

"SO CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE, AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE WE WILL SERVE THE LORD"

BOY, TITHING IS GOOD , I HAVE SEEN IT WORK WONDERS, SO EVEN IF U DONT TITHE , I WILL ALWAYS TITHE,

I AM A TITHER 4 LIFE

WHICH OF UNA WEY DON SEE GOD FACE TO FACE, YET UNA BELIEVE SAY GOD DEY EXIST, THE FIRST GIVING IN THE BIBLE WAS WHEN CAIN AND ABEL OFFERED THEIR FIRST FRUITS, TO GOD, ONE WAS HONOURED , THE OTHER WAS NOT

SO GIVING COMES FROM THE HEART, IF U ARE NOT COMPELLED TO GIVE, DONT, IF U ARE THEN GIVE FROM YOUR HEART, NO BE FORCE, ABI

MAKE UNA LEARN O, NO NEED TO INTELECTUALISE THIS THING, ITS ALL BASED ON HOW U APPRECIATE GOD, AFTER ALL THE WIDOW GAVE HER ALL, BUT THE OTHERS GAVE OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF WHAT THEY HAD, JESUS APPRECIATED THE WIDOWS MITE

SO, IF U NO WAN GIVE , NO BE FORCE !!!!!!!!

@Babygod
My problem is not wether we should give or not, i am highly supportive of giving to the church and even more especially to the less priviledge as Jesus directed. But my problem is that even though there is so much evidence in the bible that tithes is not required of christians a lot of churches still continue to deceive their congregation and blackmail them into tithing through manipulation of the scripture. The church should be a symbol of truth and integrity. so when i see this kind of wide spread deception being promoted by a large section of the church all becos of material gain, i feel embarassed to belong to the church. The church should be exemplary. At the very least pastors should tell their congregation all the truths about tithes as is stated in the bible, if the congregation now have the true knowledge and they still decide to give a certain percentage of their income to the church even after they have read that it is not required of them, all well and good, but the church owes it's congregaton the whole truth. I DON'T TITHE BUT I GIVE AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT I AM BETTER BLESSED THAN MOST PEOPLE I KNOW THAT TITHE.

@poster
Its sad to see that evil men and seducers are waxing worse and worse,deceiving and being deceived.I exhort you to continue to obey God's word.God's word includes paying tithes.God 1st,others(family,friends,debt and self) follow.Obey God and trust Him to be faithful to His promises.give as unto God not as unto men.cos god commands it,thank you.Matthew23v23

Image,

Just in case you have not read this.
-----------------------------------------------

The Trial of Pastor Enoch


As a sequel to my previous posts about the the mis-information being preached in our churches about tithesI hereby present a court scenario in which the good pastor stands before the Great Judge of all the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject. I came across this post when i checked on a link supplied by one of the contributors to a previous thread. Enjoy the conversation:

Jesus: Enoch, you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn’t tithe they would go to hell. How do you plead?

Pastor Enoch: I plead not guilty, sir. I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Jesus: Is it not true, Enoch, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, you are exactly right, that’s what I just told you.

Jesus: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13. But it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn’t he?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Jesus: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Enoch, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, just once.

Jesus: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Pastor Enoch: No it does not.

Jesus: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Jesus: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Pastor Enoch: Yes that’s what the Bible says.

Jesus: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Pastor Enoch: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Jesus: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Pastor Enoch: I guess not

Jesus: You guess not! You pastor one of the largest denominations and you are only guessing? Is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Pastor Enoch: No; it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Jesus: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: I believe it says plunder?

Jesus: So plunder could be any number of things?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people’s possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. You are correct; it does not say just money.

Jesus: As a matter of fact, money is never mentioned in that account at all; is that correct, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir; money is never mentioned; just goods and food and people.

Jesus: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Pastor Enoch: That is right.

Jesus: I only have one last question for you, Enoch. Did God command Abraham to give this plunder as tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No; it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Jesus: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church?

Jesus: Considering all the evidence, I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Jesus: Let’s see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me, Enoch.

Pastor Enoch: In Genesis chapter 28, starting at verse 20 it says, ‘Jacob vowed a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God’s house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you.”‘

Jesus: You said people should follow Jacobs’s example, is that right, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; that is right. He vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Jesus: Let me point out one thing for you, Enoch. Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob’s example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Pastor Enoch: That is not what I meant.

Jesus: What did you mean then?

Pastor Enoch: That we should give God a tenth also.

Jesus: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Pastor Enoch: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Jesus: It is obvious that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Pastor Enoch: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Jesus: So far, all you have done is taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Pastor Enoch: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, “Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” So you see sir, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Jesus: Answer me this, Enoch, were you aware that I never required anyone to tithe money?

Pastor Enoch: No I didn’t know that.

Jesus: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, that is because they didn’t have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Jesus: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis - and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Pastor Enoch: I don’t know

Jesus: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know, I fulfilled the law while I was on earth. The Law is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished.

Jesus: And once again, you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Pastor Enoch: I do not know of any.

Jesus: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Pastor Enoch: Man must have.

Jesus: So far all you have done, Enoch, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Pastor Enoch: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that You told us to tithe.

Jesus: Ok let me hear it.

Pastor Enoch: You said in Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.” Surely, You were saying there that we should be tithing.

Jesus: Let me ask you a question, who was I talking to?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus: Are you and your members scribes or Pharisees?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; God forbid!.

Jesus: I also said in that passage, “You have left undone the weightier matters of the law“. Are we under the law, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Why not?

Pastor Enoch: Because You fulfilled it, and it passed away.

Jesus: When did I fulfill the law?

Pastor Enoch: When You were crucified.

Jesus: So the law was still in effect until My death?

Pastor Enoch: That is correct sir.

Jesus: I think you know where I am going with this; don’t you?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. Since You had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding, the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Jesus: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Jesus: Was money mentioned there?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; it was not.

Jesus: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Pastor Enoch: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We had to build that million-seater cathedral to accomodate the people who come for Holy Ghost Festival yearly, the salaries of other pastors have to be paid. So many other things. We depend on the money from the people.

Jesus: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Not to mention that all those items you listed are problems you created for yourelves. They are not My agenda.

Jesus: Now to the more greivous consequences of your enforcing the tithe on believer. What did Paul write in Galatians 5:4 about attempting to follow the Law?

Pastor Enoch: That if they obeyed any part of the old Jewish law, including the law of circumcision, in order to be right (justified) with God, they have fallen from grace, or lost their salvation.

Jesus: Do you admit that like circumcision, tithing was part of the law?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir.

Jesus: Now if obeying the law of circumcision would cause gentile Christians of Paul’s day to “fall from grace”, one would have to conclude that obeying another old law; “The law of tithing” would have the same results on them today; that is to say, it will cause them to fall away from the grace of God.

Pastor Adeboye: [Swallows hard] I suppose so.

Jesus: In other words, you are admitting that your teaching the tithe is actually sending people down the road to hell?

Pastor Enoch: That was not what I intended, sir.

Jesus: Nevertheless, that is the result of your actions - your ministry. How many of those one billion members (not counting the non-members who heard you and believed you) do you suppose have been turned aside unknowingly this way?

Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I have no idea, sir.

Pastor Enoch: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Infact, I will go and take my words back. As many people as possible must hear this.

THE END

Source: : http://www.yomisays.com/?p=927

@ANONIMI

PLS I READ THE "TRASH" YOMISAYS WROTE, THAT IS HIS OWN OPINION, AND HE IS ENTITLED TO IT
FIRST I NEED TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS, IN THE BIBLICAL TIMES WHAT WAS THE FORM OF CURRENCY ? IN MEAN THE OLD TESTAMENT ? SOLOMONS RICHES WAS IT IN NAIRA OR DOLLARS ? OR WAS IT NOT IN GOLD , SILVER, LIVESTOCK AND ALL THE REST ?

HOW MANY TIMES WAS MELCHIZEDEKS NAME MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE? just twice , Gen 14 vs 18, and psalm 110 vs 4, are you telling me Abarahams detailed lifestyle was given in the bible, so why is it no stated what Abraham did when he was 39 years old.

WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY IS THAT, GOD TALKED ABOUT GIVING IN THE GENERAL SENSE OF WORD AND NO DETAILED INSTRUCTION ON IT.

SO IF ABRAHAM TITHED TO MELCHIZEDEK, WAS HE NOT A PRIEST OF THE MOST HIGH GOD

IF ABRAHAM WAS RICH IN CATTLE , SILVER AND GOLD WAS IT NOT BECAUSE OF HIS GENEROSITY ? LOT HIS NEPHEW PROSPERED UNDER HIM: GIVERS NEVER LACK !

IN THE BIBLE, THE WORTH OF A PERSON WAS BASED ON THE SUBSTANCE HE HAD AND NOT MONEY , BECAUSE THEIR WAS NO MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE THEN , IT WAS MERELY BASED ON TRADE BY BATTER, SO GIVING WAS MAINLY BASED ON THE POSSESIONS YOU HAD AND NOT BASED ON THE ACTUAL MONEY

ONE TENTH OF GIVING TO GOD IS WHAT U HAVE, JACOB MADE A VOW THAT IF GOD BLESSED HIM , THAT HE WAS GOING TO GIVE ONE TENTH OF WHAT HE HAD, YES I AGREE WITH THAT AND IT IS STILL APPLICABLE TODAY, WE PAY TITHES OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF WHAT WE HAVE, GOD NEVER FORCED ANY BODY TO PAY TITHE BUT FOR THE PERSON TO DO IT FROM THE HEART, THAT IS WHY WE HAVE FREE WILL OFFERING

SO IF U MUST GIVE , DO IT, IF NOT DONT DO IT, NO BODY DEY FORCE YOU, FORGET ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE SAY NA ONLY YOU AND GOD KNOW

Please pay your tithe first , then other things follow.the great provider is always at work ,he will take care of everything, even that debt that seeem difficuilt to settle .

Babygod:

@ANONIMI

PLS I READ THE "TRASH" YOMISAYS WROTE, THAT IS HIS OWN OPINION, AND HE IS ENTITLED TO IT

I think you should have limited yourself to labelling it his opinion rather than go as far as saying trash, except you also accept in reciprocity that your opinion on anything is trash, which I doubt.

Babygod:

@ANONIMI

FIRST I NEED TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS, IN THE BIBLICAL TIMES WHAT WAS THE FORM OF CURRENCY ? IN MEAN THE OLD TESTAMENT ? SOLOMONS RICHES WAS IT IN NAIRA OR DOLLARS ? OR WAS IT NOT IN GOLD , SILVER, LIVESTOCK AND ALL THE REST ?
,
IN THE BIBLE, THE WORTH OF A PERSON WAS BASED ON THE SUBSTANCE HE HAD AND NOT MONEY , BECAUSE THEIR WAS NO MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE  THEN , IT WAS MERELY BASED ON TRADE BY BATTER, SO GIVING WAS MAINLY BASED ON THE POSSESIONS YOU HAD AND NOT BASED ON THE ACTUAL MONEY

* Are you referring to the same Bible that had this reference to money as early as Genesis 17:23

And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

** Is this an indication of your level of understanding and knowledge of God's Written Word and why it is easy for you and others to be misled on straightforward issues as the illegality of requiring payment of tithes by CHRISTians?

@ANONIMI

anonimi:

I think you should have limited yourself to labelling it his opinion rather than go as far as saying trash, except you also accept in reciprocity that your opinion on anything is trash, which I doubt.

* Are you referring to the same Bible that had this reference to money as early as Genesis 17:23

And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

** Is this an indication of your level of understanding and knowledge of God's Written Word and why it is easy for you and others to be misled on straightforward issues as the illegality of requiring payment of tithes by CHRISTians?

WHAT MONEY ARE U REFERING TO ? ABRAM'S WEALTH WAS FROM WHERE ? READ GENESIS 13 VS 2

"And Abram was very rich in [b]cattle, in silver, and in gold[b]"

SO WHERE IS THE MONEY ?

READ EASTONS BIBLE DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF MONEY:

"Money - Of uncoined money the first notice we have is in the history of Abraham (Gen. 13:2; 20:16; 24:35). Next, this word is used in connection with the purchase of the cave of Machpelah (23:16), and again in connection with Jacob's purchase of a field at Shalem (Gen. 33:18, 19) for "an hundred pieces of money"=an hundred Hebrew kesitahs (q.v.), i.e., probably pieces of money, as is supposed, bearing the figure of a lamb.

The history of Joseph affords evidence of the constant use of money, silver of a fixed weight. This appears also in all the subsequent history of the Jewish people, in all their internal as well as foreign transactions. There were in common use in trade silver pieces of a definite weight, shekels, half-shekels, and quarter-shekels. But these were not properly coins, which are pieces of metal authoritatively issued, and bearing a stamp.

Of the use of coined money we have no early notice among the Hebrews. The first mentioned is of Persian coinage, the daric (Ezra 2:69; Neh. 7:70) and the 'adarkon (Ezra 8:27). The daric (q.v.) was a gold piece current in Palestine in the time of Cyrus. As long as the Jews, after the Exile, lived under Persian rule, they used Persian coins. These gave place to Greek coins when Palestine came under the dominion of the Greeks (B.C. 331), the coins consisting of gold, silver, and copper pieces. The usual gold pieces were staters (q.v.), and the silver coins tetradrachms and drachms.

In the year B.C. 140, Antiochus VII. gave permission to Simon the Maccabee to coin Jewish money. Shekels (q.v.) were then coined bearing the figure of the almond rod and the pot of manna "

SO WHAT IS WAS MERELY SAYING WAS THAT THE THEN OLD TESTAMENT TIMES DID NOT HAVE A KNOWN VALUE OF CURRENCY

PLS DONT THINK I CAN BE MISLEAD RATHER I THINK U ARE DERAILING, TITHING IS A PERSONAL THING, SO IF U DONT WANT TO, THEN DONT DO IT.

BUT ALL THE SAME I BELIEVE U ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION, SO DONT FORCE IT DOWN ON OTHERS, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, YOMISAYS IS ENTITLED TO HIS VIEWS, I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH HIM

[size=20pt]WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT, THE TITHE?

by Pastor Eddie Cude

What is the tithe? It is the "gateway for the believer into the covenant of blessings." In the Hebrew "maaser" or "maasrah," is translated tenth, or tenth part, and in Greek "apodekatoo" and in both, it means a payment or giving or receiving of the tenth.

The tithe is that tenth of our income that we give to God, which enables Him to move on our behalf in the area of blessings. The Bible records numerous accounts of man tithing to God. God is the creator of everything that exists. He owns everything and we are simply stewards of what we have been entrusted with. The tithe principle is this; "He gives unto us, we give back to Him one-tenth of all that He has blessed us with."

Abraham tithed unto Melchizedek, Isaac tithed, His son Jacob and many others also even before the law was given. Many Christians do not tithe because they have been taught that they are not under the law, but under grace. While this is a true statement, God did not institute the tithe to bring us under the law, but to get blessings to His children. Abraham tithed before the law, and God blessed him supernaturally. We're under grace that we might establish the law; not turn from it. Jesus said that He didn't come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. Because He fulfilled it, we are to establish it. His Words are forever settled in heaven, therefore we establish His Words upon the earth.

Matthew 5:17-19: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

TITHING ACCORDING TO THE LAW AS GIVEN BY MOSES

Leviticus 27:30 "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD."


This scripture states that all the tithe, whether it be seed of the land, fruit of the tree, or one tenth of all that you earn, is holy unto the Lord. Deuteronomy 14:22-29 states that one-tenth of all that comes into your possession, belongs to God. This was God's plan to instruct His people as to the way of blessings that He had for them. God is a multiplier by nature, and He could not multiply that which was not entrusted to Him. When the children of Israel were obedient to give back to God that which was His, increase was guaranteed. Scripture states, It's better to be obedient than to sacrifice. When the children of Israel were obedient, blessings came; when they were disobedient, they had to sacrifice. Many Christians today are wanting God to honor the covenant that He has with His children, but disobedient children cannot receive the same reward as the obedient.

1 Samuel 15:22: "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams."

The strongest chain is only as strong as its weakest link. When we fail to tithe, we become that weak link. Statistics show that approximately 20% of Christians tithe. That means, 80% of Christendom is not in covenant with their God, but are like beggars and thieves looking for handouts and what they can steal from Him.

I have said many times, it would be better to rob the First National Bank than to rob the bank of Heaven. I'm sure most Christians don't see it this way, because most Christians steal from God. Malachi 3:8 asks the question "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."

The Old Testament records two other tithes; one tithe was called the "festival tithe," when they came to Jerusalem three times a year for fellowship. The expense for the festival, (travel, food, etc.) was taken from this tithe. The third tithe was given in the third year and was a tithe holy unto the Lord. It was a tithe of almsgiving for the poor and needy. All of these tithes were brought to the storehouse, and the priest oversaw the distribution of same. The first tithe was for the upkeep of the priests, since they had no inheritance. All of their income and portion was to be given to them by God's people. This tithe in and of itself, is not considered an offering. It is the minimum requirement for all of God's people.

The reason God instituted the second and the third tithe through Moses, was that His children needed to give above and beyond this tithe. It is these tithes that God is referring to in Malachi 3:8 where His people have robbed Him in tithes and offerings. In verse 10 of Malachi 3, you will notice that it states "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

I am convinced that when people see the tithe as an instrument of blessing they will not be looking for a way to give less, but a way to give more. God will help them so that they can be generous on every occasion.


TITHING ESTABILSHES THE LAW

Tithing after the law does not do away with the law, but establishes it. Are you honestly blessed to where you can give generously on every occasion? Or are you like so many that can't give the way they would like to be able to? I've come to the knowledge that most Christians are looking for the truth, so they can be set free. Just because you're a child of God, does not mean you are a "mature" son of God. A mature son or daughter of God will not be found robbing "daddy" God. Revelation 3:18 gives us good counsel on how to re-establish right covenant with the Lord. Jesus' advice to those of us who have become lukewarm is to buy from Him gold that's been refined in the fire. He tells us to do this so that the shame of our unclothedness will not be revealed.

Revelation 3:18: "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

How do we buy gold from the Lord? Hebrews 1:7 states that His ministers are as "flames of fire." In Matthew 25:9, Jesus makes a statement concerning the five foolish virgins to go and buy from those who sell. What they needed to buy was oil. Oil symbolizes the Spirit. Those who are in the five-fold ministry (apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists and teachers) have a command from the Lord to receive tithes (Hebrews 7). These tithes are not given, but paid, because the tithe belongs to the Lord. Malachi 3:3 states that the Lord will sit as a refiner, purifying the sons of Levi (those in the ministry) purging them as gold and silver, that they may offer to the Lord an offering in righteousness. I repeat, Jesus did not come to do away with law, but to fulfill it. Our job is to establish it.

There are those who say that the tithe is not covered in the New Testament, but in Hebrews 5, 6 and 7, one of the main subjects spoken of is the tithe--who receives it and how to become mature through paying it. In Hebrews 5:11-14 it states ", that you've become dull of hearing and that you should be teaching the first principles, but instead you have need of milk, and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the Word of righteousness, for he is a baby." This is preceded by the statement that Christ himself has become High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. In Chapter 6, it goes on to state that once you have been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift--once you have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good Word of God--if you still fall away it is impossible to be renewed again to repentance, seeing that you crucify again for yourselves the Son of God and put Him to an open shame.

What is this good Word of God? This Word is "rhema" which means, the spoken or revealed Word of God. His Word has been revealed to you concerning Jesus as High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, meaning that Jesus has become High Priest over the tithe, (and your life) forever (vs. 20). Chapter 6 further states (vs. 9-19), that God blessed Abraham by saying "With blessings, I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you." He also promised immutability (unchangeableness) of His counsel and confirmed it by swearing an oath that by these unchangeable things, we might have strong consolation and lay hold of the hope set before us. Verse 19 states that this hope we have is an anchor for our soul (mind), both sure and steadfast. I am convinced these two unchangeable things are both God's promise to bless us and our promise to tithe back to Him. Chapter 7 states in verse 8, "Here mortal men receive tithes, but there He receives them of whom it is witnessed, that He lives."

Chapters 5-7 deals with the ministry of Melchizedek and that Jesus is the priest forever according to Melchizedek. We know Abraham gave tithes of all that he possessed. We know in the Law of Moses, tithes were commanded. After the Law, Hebrews states that Jesus is the Lord, not just of the past, not just of the present, but forever. Hallelujah! He is the Lord of the tithe, forever.

Seeing that Jesus is the Lord of the tithe, is He our lord? If He is, there should be no question that we tithe unto Him. I can just hear someone saying, " If Jesus was my Pastor, I would tithe," but Hebrews 7:8 states "that men (subject to death) receive tithes on this side; but on the other side, Jesus Himself receives them." Why should we look for ways to excuse us from what we know we should be doing? Let's be about establishing and not doing away with His Words. The tithe was, and is and shall ever be holy unto the Lord. [/size]

@babygod
May God forgive Pastor eddie cude for this outright blatant manipulation of the scripture you just posted, the post is full of half truths and outright lies and is designed to fool gullible xtians who don't read their bible thoroughly into parting with ten perent of their income every month for instance hebrew 7 :11-18 clearly states that tithing is no longer required of xtians becos of it's weakness and unprofitableness. your so called pastor did not comment on that part of the passsage but was eager to quote the earlier part of the passage out of context. Also with reference to your previous argument with anonimi that money did not exist in those days, again you have shown your very weak knowledge of the bible in deuteronomy 14 : 25-26 were tithe was being defined money was mentioned three times and from all indications, it implied that money was not meant to be tithed becos the verse said you should use the money to buy food items and eat it in the presence of God it didn't say you should pay the money has tithes. for ease of refernce i would re-post the passages i quoted here again.

Passage Hebrews 7:11-18:

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.


Passage Deuteronomy 14:25 - 26

25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household

[size=18pt]   
@KunleOshob
Please I want you to be very objective, we no dey fight, I know u dont tithe, yet you are very prosperous ! As for me I do it and I am ver prosperous, so no bodi dey force u, allow others wey wan do am, to do it, your giving  and my giving no be the same, As the bible dey, every bodi interprets it to suit his own ego, so lets take it that way, this is my own VIEW,no body forced me to do it, I Love doing it ! thats all, God dey bless me for it, tithing is not for people like you, coz u guys dont need help, you are okay, me i need to appreciate God, thats why

@NAIRALANDERS ( I mean Tithers, make una read)

THE LAW OF TITHING
by
Rev. Rick L. Patterson, Th.D.
President
Miami Christian University
Miami, FL


This paper will address itself to the issue of tithing, and more specifically, " The Law of Tithing." It is my hope and desire that this brief look into the Christian principles of tithing will stimulate your interest in studying and ultimately becoming obedient to the Word of God - the Bible!

I am not going to give you 1,001 reasons why you should tithe on your income. I am not going to try and "sell" you on tithing. Rather, I am going to present the Word of God to you and believe that by the power of the Holy Spirit you will be obedient to God's commandment to tithe!

The way in which you handle your finances will mark your spiritual commitment to God! It has often been said that more could be learned about a person's commitment to Christ by looking at his checkbook rather than his prayer book. We are no farther along in our walk with God than the point to which we have learned to trust Him with our tithes and offerings.

There are so many books, tracts, tapes, and teachings today attempting to convince the Christian to tithe that it is amazing. Many of them are excellent, but many are nothing more than weak compromises trying to gloss over the issue.

For example, I visited a church where the pastor had written a tract entitled, "Moving Towards the Tithe." The tract encouraged people to move in a positive direction to give 10% to God. It later emphasized, however, that the believer need not concern h imself with the consequences of not tithing, which was an obvious contradiction of the subject of his tract. My question is not whether or not you are moving towards the tithe, but rather, WHY A REN'T YOU TITHING?

I realize that many people do not tithe simply because they have not had the proper teachings about tithing. Then there are others who know they should, but willfully don't. My main concern is with the latter group - those who are w illfully rebellious a nd disobedient to God's commands. Jesus clearly taught us that if we love him we will keep his commandments. Clearly that includes tithing and giving!

We have all seen the bumper stickers that say,

"HONK IF YOU LOVE JESUS!"

Recently, I saw another bumper sticker that said,

"TITHE, IF YOU LOVE JESUS, ANYONE CAN HONK!"


PRINCIPLE OF DIVINE OWNERSHIP
VERSUS
THE PRINCIPLE OF DOMINION

Many Christians have not learned the concept of Divine Ownership nor that of Dominion. As a result, they have a distorted view of the purpose of their finances. Here is an explanation of these two important principles.

THE PRINCIPLE OF DOMINION

GENESIS 1:26
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all th e earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." (NKJ)


GENESIS 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

GENESIS 1:28
Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living t hing that moves on the earth." (NKJ)






The word dominion comes from the Hebrew word radah , meaning to rule over, to reign over that which is owned by God. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance < /B>

<H7287> radah, raw-daw'; a prim. root; to tread down, i.e. subjugate; spec. to crumble off:-(come to, make to) have dominion, prevail against, reign, (bear, make to) rule, (-r, over), take. In other words, God has given us the ability and the command to rule and reign over his property and to become faithful stewards.







The Law of Tithing

God has given mankind the exclusive right or dominion to rule over His property and world. We have not only been given the right of dominion, but we are also "free moral agents," able to make our own decisions and to determine our own actions. Therefore, man can bless God with his actions or curse God with his actions. Obedience blesses God, while disobedience is a reproach unto God . Tithing blesses, while not tith ing is obviously a reproach.


DIVINE OWNERSHIP

If this principle could finally be understood in the hearts of all Christians, then the problems associated with giving and tithing would be over. Therefore, I will quote several scriptures to support this principle. Please take the time to read each sc ripture, in fact, underline them in your own Bible for future references.

GOD OWNS EVERYTHING!

PSALMS 24:1
The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein . (NKJ)

PSALMS 50:10
For every beast of the forest is Mine , And the cattle on a thousand hills. (NKJ)

PSALMS 50:11
I know all the birds of the mountains, And the wild beasts of the field are Mine . (NKJ)

HAGGAI 2:8
`The silver is Mine , and the gold is Mine ,' says the Lord of hosts. (NKJ)

EZEKIEL 18:4
"Behold, all souls are Mine ; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine ; the soul who sins shall die. (NKJ)


ROMANS 14:8
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's . (NKJ)

1 CORINTHIANS 6:20
For you were bought at a price ; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's. (NKJ)

1 CORINTHIANS 10:26
For "The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness ." (NKJ)

God owns everything and we are merely stewards over His possessions!

Based upon the above scriptures and many, many others, it is clear that the entire earth, world, gold, silver, animals, and all people are God's! The principle of divine ownership teaches us that there is nothing that does not belong to God Himself! Whereas, the principle of dominion teaches us that mankind has been given stewardship over God's property.

I believe that this is a very timely message and teaching for the Body of Christ today! Especially living in a world of intense greed, selfishness and hedonism.
I am reminded of the very famous quote from the late president John F. Kennedy, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country."

So many Christians today fail to realize that God has asked and even commanded them to give and to tithe! It is a very disappointing fact that 80% of the finances of any church is given by only 20% of the people. What can you do, what can I do for Chris t's church? TITHE!!!!!

Christian maturity is not based upon the concept of "God, what can you give me?" Rather, it is an attitude which expresses gratitude to God and a thank you, Lord, for what you have done for me, now what can I do for you in return? Mature Christians see the need and fill it. They see their responsibility and respond to it.


One of the greatest injustices that many pastors have done to the church is to insist that God demands one-tenth of our income and one-seventh of our week. The implications are that the other nine-tenths of our income and the other six days of the week are ours to do as we please. The real truth is that everything belongs to God! Not only the tithe, but everything else: 100% belongs to Him. We are simply stewards being obedient to our Heavenly Master - Jesus Christ , our LORD and Saviour. The tithe is simply the basic starting point in our Christian financial commitment.


TITHE
The definition of tithe is derived from the Hebrew word, asair , which means to give the tenth part of. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

<H4643>. MA'ASER, MAH-AS-AYR'; OR MA'ASAR, MAH-AS-AR';AND (IN
PLUR.) FEM. MA'ASRAH, MAH-AS-RAW';FROM 6240; A TENTH; ESPEC. A TITHE:-TENTH (PART),TITHE (-ING).

<H6237>`asar, aw-sar'; a prim. root (ident. with 6238); to accumulate; but used only as denom. from 6235; to tithe, i.e. take or give a tenth:- x surely, give (take) the tenth, (have, take) tithe (-ing, -s), x truly. < BR>
Let us look at several scriptures that relate to the tithe. Once again, I challenge you to read and meditate upon each of the following scriptures. Mark them in your Bible and use them for references. When you do so, tithing will be come a Rhema word to you from God.

MALACHI 3:8
"Will a man rob God ? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, `In what way have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings." (NKJ)

MALACHI 3:9
You are cursed with a curse, for you have robbed Me , even this whole nation. MALACHI 3:10

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse , that there may be food in My house, and prove Me now in this ," says the Lord of hosts, "If I will not open for you th e windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it . (NKJ)


MALACHI 3:11
"And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, so that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground, nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field," says the Lord of hosts;

MALACHI 3:12
And all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a delightful land," says the Lord of hosts. (NKJ)

Did you notice God's response and question to the people who did not tithe in this passage of scripture? He asked the rhetorical question, " Will a man rob God ?" ; I don't know about you, but if I were going to rob someone, the last person that I would want to rob is God! Yet, that is exactly what He said the people were doing. What a serious indictment!

How can you and I literally rob God ? How can you take from the one who owns everything? Malachi 3:8 says, ",  in tithes and offerings ." God is specifically telling us that if we do not tithe our 10% unto Him, then as far as he is concerned we are robbers or thieves. Then He proceeds to explain that as a result of our disobedience we are under a curse!



SACRILEGE

ROMANS 2:22
Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege ? (KJV)

It is interesting that Paul refers to sacrilege in this passage of scripture. In fact, the word sacrilege only appears once in the entire Bible. The Greek word for sacrilege is hierosuleo , to rob a temple, to rob God, to commit sacrilege. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

<G2416>HIEROSULEO, HEE-ER-OS-OOL-EH'-O; FROM 2417; TO BE A TEMPLE-ROBBER (FIG.):-COMMIT SACRILEGE.

<G2417>HIEROSULOS, HEE-ER-OS'-OO-LOS; FROM 2411 AND 4813; A TEMPLE - DESPOILER:-ROBBER OF CHURCHES. Sacrilege is theft directed against God himself.
Rousas John Rushdoony: This was Font/Pitch 8,10 - Off. This was Font/Pitch 5,10 - On. LAW AND SOCIETY Volume II of the Institutes of Biblical Law, This was Font/Pitch 5,10 - Off. This was Font/ Pitch 8,10 - On. p. 28. Vallecito, CA: Ross House Books, 1982.

Those who have a true understanding of God's Kingdom must come to the conclusion that the tithe is clearly His basic Kingdom tax; while the offering is the evidence of our love and gratitude for His care and mercy toward us.

Paul asks several, very important questions in Romans 2:22. He states their position not to commit adultery and then asks ", dost thou commit adultery?" Then Paul goes on to state, < B> ", thou that abhorrest idols," or, you who abhor, detest, and hate the false worship to idols, the giving and sacrifice to idols, ", dost thou commit sacrilege ?".
John Calvin: This was Font/Pitch 8,10 - Off. This was Font/Pitch 5,10 - On. Calvin's Commentaries, This was Font/Pitch 5,10 - Off. This was Font/Pitch 8,10 - On. Volume XIX, p. 106, Gran d Rapids, MI, 1984 Paul is basically saying, "Practice what you preach!" He tells the Roman Christians that it is unjust to condemn the heathens for their worship and commitment (their service and sa crifices) to their false gods and idols, and then proclaim to serve the t rue God of the universe and rob from His temple or to commit sacrilege.

What a challenge for the church! Shall we continue robbing God through sacrilege? Shall we continue to justify our non-tithing and non-giving, and then use the tithe for our own personal pleasures?

Malachi clearly teaches us that the absence of tithes and offerings results in God's curse. I know there will be some who will ask the question, "Why do I emphasize the negative of not tithing instead of the positive of tithing?" The answer is because almost every book you will read that has been written in the last 25 years emphasizes only th e positive nature of God, while ignoring the judgement of God. It is through obedience and l ove for God that we tithe. The blessings of tithing are the by-products.

I think it is quite interesting to note in Malachi, Chapter 3, that the curses from not tithing relate directly back to man's first rebellion against God in the garden.

GENESIS 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of th y life; (KJV)

GENESIS 3:18
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (KJV)

GENESIS 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art , and unto dust shalt thou return. (KJV)

Failure to tithe aggravates and develops the curse that originally came to man in the garden. Whatever our profession, work, or call is, life becomes marked by increased frustration and trouble to the non-tither.

When rebellious man realizes his sin and seeks restoration with God through redemption and sanctification, God, in His mercy, provides a life of blessings. In fact, Deuteronomy 28 shows us that as we obey the Word of God, not only wil l we be entitled to blessings, but they will overtake us !


Let us look at Malachi, Chapter 3, Verse 7:

MALACHI 3:7
Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them . Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return < B> ? (KJV)

MALACHI 3:8
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. (KJV)

The premise of God's reproof in verses 8 - 12 was the fact that the people were amazed that God wanted to return to them. They hadn't even realized that He had left them and wanted to return! They asked God, " Wherein shall we return?" (v.7)


As far as these people were concerned, they were good people who loved God and assumed they were in fellowship with Him. The same is true today. We have thousands of Christians who assume their relationship with God is okay. They li ve their lives as if tithing were not important to their LORD.

Peter challenges the church in Acts 5:29

ACTS 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men . (KJV)


CHRIST IS KING!!!

The Christian declaration that "CHRIST IS KING!" is one of absolute authority and power! When you accepted Christ as your Lord and Saviour you were placed within His Kingdom.

COLOSSIANS 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: (KJV)

Every king has the power and the right of taxation; every king commands his kingdom. A king does not have to plead for support, he does not have to send out appeal letters. It is his right! The option to pay the tax does not come to the people for a vo te! It is not a matter of their choice. It is their obligation to their king! Paul supports this position in Romans 13:7.


ROMANS 13:7
Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due ; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (KJV)

If we are responsible to render our dues, tribute, custom, fear, and honour to earthly kings, how much more so of our Lord Jesus Christ! In the simplest terms, if we are members of Christ's Kingdom, then we must pay its taxes - the ti the!
Rousas John Rushdoony: This was Font/Pitch 8,10 - Off. This was Font/Pitch 5,10 - On. TITHING AND DOMINION , This was Font/Pitch 5,10 - Off. This was Font/Pitch 8,10 - On. p. 23, Vallecito, CA: Ross Hou se Books, 1979.

The Church must understand its responsibility to bring all the tithes into the storehouse. Much of the nonsense we have seen in recent years can be directly attributed to the lack of committed Christians who tithe. Is it any wonder why a recent poll in U.S.A. Today indicated that 40% of Americans believe that "very little Christian fund raising is either honest or ethical."

Recently, the church's image has been soiled by the constant appeal for money. Fund raising is filled with gimmicks, and many times outright lies! WHY? Because we have become a people who truly do not fear God! We do not tithe to our local churches. We do not support missions. Yet, we want and expect God to help us, heal us, protect us, etc.


HOW DO I DETERMINE THE AMOUNT I SHOULD
TITHE?

The word tithe literally means 10 %. The amount we should tithe is 10 % of all our increase. This includes any and all increase in the value of the original capital investment. All capital gains from the sale of houses, real estate , stocks, bonds, mach inery, etc. All increases based upon our wages or salaries, including fringe benefits: employer paid health insurance, dental insurance, life insurance, retirement contributions, etc.

LEVITICUS 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord. (KJV)

LEVITICUS 27:31
And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. (KJV)

LEVITICUS 27:32
And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord. (KJV)

God has commanded us to tithe on all our increases. Whatever you receive, whether it be from gifts, earnings, inheritances, etc. are to be tithed.

Those who tithe usually have little difficulty tithing on their gross wages. However, many fail to take into account the sales and profits from houses, cars, boats, etc. Whenever we receive an increase above our original inve stment, we are to tithe!

Sometimes I am asked the question, "What happens if I lose money on a investment?" My response is always the same: if we have an increase, God expects a tithe!

WHERE ARE WE TO GIVE OUR TITHES?

One of the most frustrating and damaging teachings in the Body of Christ today is the concept that our tithes can go to any ministry we choose. For example, it is common practice for radio and TV evangelists to ask for the people to send in a "portion" o r "all" of their tithes to support their air time. Another false concept is that of sending our tithe to evangelistic ministries, orphanages, paying school tu itions, etc. While these are good and important, scripturally they are not to receive the tithe! The tithe is to go to your local church and nowhere else!

I would like to point out that it is your option to send your offerings and special gifts to ministries that do, in fact, bless you. I personally send money to many ministries and am happy to do so. In fact, our church has often rec eived special collect ions for other ministries.


MALACHI 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse , that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, tha t there shall not be room enough to receive it . (KJV)




Storehouse Concept

The concept of the storehouse in the Old Testament plays a very important part in our understanding of New Testament tithing. The people, being primarily agricultural, would bring their tithes of the land, cattle, grain, fruits, vege tables, etc. to the l ocal Levites who were responsible for the ministry in their local community. The Levites had a storehouse in which the grain, meal, cattle, etc. would be stored for later consumption and use. Notice that God said we were to bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house. His house was in reference to what we call today the local church. It was that place in which people would be able to receive their ministry and care.

Unfortunately, TV evangelists lead many people believe they are being ministered to exclusively by them. In fact, if the TV evangelists would come in line with New Testament authority, they would be supported and sent out by the loca l church. Many times I have received phone calls from people who have not been attending church services and I know are not tithing to a local church, only to hear, "Pastor will you please come over and pray for me? Will you visit my mother in the hospital? Will you marry us ?" I have wanted to say, but I have not as of yet, "Why don't you call Bro. TV Evangelist, or such and such TV program to come and help you?" You see, it is the local church that is responsible for the daily ministry of the saints of God. It is the local shepherds who the Bible says are to lay down their lives for the sheep. It is the local church who must baptize, marry, counsel, and b ury the individuals. Therefore, God's plan is for the local church to receive the tithe for its services.

Again, there is absolutely no scriptural support for the idea that the tithe is to go anywhere but to the local church.

I CORINTHIANS 16:1
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. (KJV)




I CORINTHIANS 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. (KJV)

Notice the concept of laying in store for the first day of the week, Sunday. Now I realize that this verse is referring to the offerings that were designated for the suffering saints in Jerusalem, but I wish to point out the principl e of storehouse and w eekly giving in the New Testament setting.

The sole and primary purpose of the tithe is to support those who are in the ministry and their families. The tithe, as we will see, is not to be used for paying church mortgages or electric bills, but is to go towards the support of the ministers on sta ff in a local church.

1 CORINTHIANS 9:14
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. (KJV)

1 CORINTHIANS 9:14
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. (NIV)

LUKE 10:7
And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. (KJV)

1 TIMOTHY 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. (KJV)




1 TIMOTHY 5:17
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. (NIV)

These, as well as other scriptures, show us that the ministers are not to live in hardship, just barely getting by. As ministers are faithful to the Lord and as their ministries grow so should their support financially.

NUMBERS 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation. (KJV)

NUMBERS 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inh eritance. (KJV)

Verse 24 shows us that the Levites were to tithe, and that tithe was called the heave offering. The heave offering was used to support the priest that supported the Levites.

NEW TESTAMENT TITHING

Some critics of tithing try to maintain that tithing is an Old Testament law and not subject to New Testament obedience. However, Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour maintains the principle of tithing in Matthew 23:23.

MATTHEW 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not t o leave the other undone . (KJV) (KJV)
Also see Luke 11:42

LUKE 11:42
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done , and not to le ave the other undone. (KJV)

LUKE 11:42
"Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone . (NIV)

Clearly Jesus is telling the Pharisees and scribes that they were to tithe on their increases and possessions ! The emphasis was not that they were not to tithe or that we are not to tithe, but that they sh ould understand judgement, mercy, and faith. Whatever we do today is in vain if it is not done in faith and love. But, please do not overlook the fact Jesus expected them to continue tithing !

"Pastor, tithing is Old Testament and we are no longer under the law and I am not going to tithe!"



Tithing was not initially instituted in the Mosaic law. In fact, it was a Biblical principle instituted by God before the Law! Let us take a look at Abraham who tithed unto the priest Melchizedek.

GENESIS 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. (KJV)

GENESIS 14:19
And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: (KJV)

GENESIS 14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all . (KJV)

This passage of scripture clearly shows us the principle and the law of tithing hundreds of years before the Mosaic Law was given.

Another example of tithing before the Mosaic Law was Jacob in Genesis 28:20-22.

GENESIS 28:20
And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, (KJV)

GENESIS 28:21
So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God: (KJV)




GENESIS 28:22
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee . (KJV)


Jacob made a vow unto God to serve Him and to tithe on all that the Lord would give him. Let us look at the end result of Jacob's life as a result of his tithing unto the LORD.

GENESIS 33:11
Take, I pray thee, my blessing that is brought to thee; because God hath dealt graciously with me, and because I have enough. And he urged him, and he took it . (KJV)

I heard one man say, "I am not going to tithe. I live strictly by the New Testament and I don't believe tithing is New Testament!"

I then proceeded to shout, "Praise the Lord! Let us look at the New Testament!"

MARK 10:21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and fo llow me. (KJV)

ACTS 2:44
And all that believed were together, and had all things common ; (KJV)

ACTS 2:45
And sold their possessions and goods , and parted them to all men , as every man had need. (KJV)


ACTS 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common . (KJV)

ACTS 4:33
And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. (KJV)

ACTS 4:34
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, (KJV)

ACTS 4:35
And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. (KJV)

ACTS 4:36
And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, the son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, (KJV)

ACTS 4:37
Having land, sold it , and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet. (KJV)

I then proceeded to tell the man that if he were strictly New Testament, he would have to sell all that he had and bring it into the church, to the apostles' feet. After reading these scriptures, I was surprised at how quickly this man changed his theolo gy regarding the law of the tithe.


PROVERBS 3:9
Honour the Lord with thy substance , and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: (KJV)

PROVERBS 3:10
So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine . (KJV)

Tithing is the means through which God is released to bless his people. Scripture after scripture shows us that it is God's desire for us to prosper and be in health. The Bible also tells us that whatever we give shall be give n back to us good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over. It teaches us that God will open up the windows of heaven and pour out blessings that our storehouses will not be able to contain.

The question is not whether you can afford to tithe, but rather, how in the world can you afford not to tithe?

Tithing is one of God's means of bringing us into maturity and prosperity.
Tithing honors the LORD!

Tithing demonstrates our faith in God's power to supply all our needs. We receive peace of mind knowing we are obeying God's Word.

Tithing is an act of our faith because it allows God to bless the remaining 90% of our income.

Tithing blesses the church by enabling it to carry out a greater ministry to the world.

Through our obedience to God in tithing, we become good examples of financial stewardship in God's Kingdom.

Please let me remind you that we are the stewards and not the owners of our possessions. GOD OWNS ALL !

TITHING IS NOT AN OPTION IT IS
GOD'S COMMANDMENT!

You can tithe without loving God with all your heart, but you cannot love God with all your heart without tithing!


Additional Scriptures Relating to Tithing:


The Law of Tithing

2 CHRONICLES 31:5
And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all <things> brought they in abundantly.

2 CHRONICLES 31:6
And <concerning> the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid & lt;them> by heaps.

NEHEMIAH 10:38
And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

NEHEMIAH 13:12
Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.

MATTHEW 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier <matters> of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


LUKE 11:42
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

LEVITICUS 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, <whether> of the seed of the land, <or> of the fruit of the tree, <is> the LORD'S: <it is> holy unto the LORD.

LEVITICUS 27:32
And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, <even> of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

NUMBERS 18:26
Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, <even> a tenth <part> of the tithe.

DEUTERONOMY 12:17
Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thi ne hand:

DEUTERONOMY 14:22
Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

DEUTERONOMY 14:23
And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest lea rn to fear the LORD thy God always.

DEUTERONOMY 14:28
At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay <it> up within thy gates:

2 CHRONICLES 31:5
And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all <things> brought they in abundantly.

2 CHRONICLES 31:6
And <concerning> the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and he tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid &l t;them> by heaps.

NEHEMIAH 10:38
And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

NEHEMIAH 13:12
Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.

MATTHEW 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier <matters> of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

LUKE 11:42
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

GENESIS 14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

LEVITICUS 27:31
And if a man will at all redeem <ought> of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth <part> thereof.

NUMBERS 18:24
But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer <as> an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inhe ritance.

NUMBERS 18:26
Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, <even> a tenth <part> of the tithe.

NUMBERS 18:28
Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD's heave offering to Aaron the priest.

DEUTERONOMY 12:6
And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:

DEUTERONOMY 12:11
Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of y our hand, and all your choi ce vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

DEUTERONOMY 26:12
When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, <which> <is> the year of tithing, and hast given <it> unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that the y may eat within thy gates, and be filled;

2 CHRONICLES 31:12
And brought in the offerings and the tithes and the dedicated <things> faithfully: over which Cononiah the Levite <was> ruler, and Shimei his brother <was> the next.

NEHEMIAH 10:37
And <that> we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground u nto the Levites, that the same Le vites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.

NEHEMIAH 10:38
And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

NEHEMIAH 12:44
And at that time there were some appointed over the chambers for the treasures, for the offerings, for the firstfruits, and for the tithes, to gather into them out of the fields of the cities the portions of the law for the pries ts and Levites: for Judah r ejoiced for the priests and for the Levites that waited.

NEHEMIAH 13:5
And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded <to be given> to the L evites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests.

AMOS 4:4
Come to Beth-el, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, <and> your tithes after three years:

MALACHI 3:8
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

MALACHI 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that <there shal l> not <be room> enough <to re ceive it>.

LUKE 18:12
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

HEBREWS 7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraha m:

HEBREWS 7:6
But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

HEBREWS 7:8
And here men that die receive tithes; but there he <receiveth them,> of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

HEBREWS 7:9
And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.


[/size]

@babygod
i have read through the thrash you just posted written by the so called Rev Rick Patterson and i can easily conclude that it is a classical example of biblical gymnastics. I won't even bother to comment on it. But my question to you is this all said and done the final word on tithes in the bible is in Hebrew 7 : 5- 18. here clear instructions were given that the levitcal law must change because Jesus is not from the tribe of Judah and also because it is a weak and useless law. If you don't have any biblical passage that supercedes that, then you have no case. Preaching of tithes is a fraud being perpetuated against ignorant christians. I would really like to hear your response to hebrew 7: 11,12,15 &18

@KunleOshob

KunleOshob:

@babygod
i have read through the thrash you just posted written by the so called Rev Rick Patterson and i can easily conclude that it is a classical example of biblical gymnastics. I won't even bother to comment on it. But my question to you is this all said and done the final word on tithes in the bible is in Hebrew 7 : 5- 18. here clear instructions were given that the levitcal law must change because Jesus is not from the tribe of Judah and also because it is a weak and useless law. If you don't have any biblical passage that supercedes that, then you have no case. Preaching of tithes is a fraud being perpetuated against ignorant christians. I would really like to hear your response to hebrew 7: 11,12,15 &18

I AGREE WITH THE TRASHU WROTE, SINCE YOU ARE A COMPENDIUM OF BIBLICAL HISTORY, I HAVE NO OTHER OPTION THAN TO THROW YOUR TRASHINTO THE DUSTBIN, I DONT KNOW IF U UNDERSTAND ENGLISH VERY WELL, WHAT I SAID EARLIER IS THAT TITHING IS NOT FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU SO WHY ARE U BOTHERED ? JUST IGNORE THE " TRASH " I POSTED, I WAS ONLY REACHING OUT TO OTHER GUYS, OR DO YOU WANT TO START A HOLY WAR ?
NO NEED TO REPLY U, SO JUST 4GET ABOUT IT ! HOLY CLERGY MAN, THIS WILL GO ON AND ON, WE NO NEED TO ARGUE ABOUT ANYTHING, I REST MY CASE

@KunleOshob

PLS CRITICISE THIS TRASH

[b][size=16pt] Tithed in Knots

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some Comments on Biblical Stewardship
James Patrick Holding

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


At the request of a reader we are engaging the issue of tithing. For many this is a serious question, in terms of service to God and the key question of whether the laws of tithing are still in effect in the NT church, and if so, to what extent. The general principle of generosity is obviously still in effect, and no one disagrees that I know of, but what about the particulars? We will try to answer these questions:

Is "ten percent" still the norm today?
To whom are we obliged to provide a tithe, if anyone?
More questions may be added as we progress. After initial study, we will also seek out any analyses of the issue online and address their arguments.

Background: OT Our study will begin with a look at the meaning of the word "tithe" in the OT and the first verses in the OT which refer to it.

The meaning of the word "tithe" is of no dispute. Strong's tells us it is ma'aser, and means literally a tenth. 'Asar by itself is the Hebrew number ten. Thus technically a person cannot "tithe" 5 or 15 percent of their income; it is like saying, "Cut me a quarter of that pie so I can eat half of it." "Tithe" in English has come to mean whatever amount we choose to give, but this is technically not faithful to the original meaning of the word. Not that anyone should complain.

Now let's look at some of the first places we see this word used:

Gen. 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Gen. 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
Lev. 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Num. 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.
Within the context of the OT references to the tithe are made to refer to that which was given as support to a certain person (like Melchizedek) or an institution (the priesthood). But there is a point of background interest here. Clearly Abe and Jacob practiced a tithe before the time of the law. There is good reason for this: Tithing was a widespread custom in the Ancient Near East, and it was commonly practiced for the support of kings and sanctuaries.

Sarna (Genesis commentary, 110) offers an example of pagan "tithing" in the Ugaritic (Canaanite) literature; the tithe was paid to a local king. Salstrand [The Tithe, 15] mentions secular examples of the "ten percent rule" in Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Greece, and Rome. We even see an example of a "secular" tithe in the OT:

1 Sam. 8:15-17 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
A very important initial point may be derived from this. The "ten percent" rule was a construct of the Ancient Near East even before the law was introduced. Skeptics who speak of God's greed in demanding 10 percent might consider that God asked for no more than a sovereign of the day would have for the support of his institutions. This was the "tax" of the day, and one might note that it is far lower than the lowest tax rate even in America today.

At the same time, Christians like Pink [Tithing, 6] are off the mark when they use the Genesis tithes to argue that "we cannot account for what is there, unless we presuppose a previous revelation of God's mind and a manifestation of His will upon the point." The data suggests that tithing was around as a secular practice before God made any recorded commands to anyone. (In response Salstrand [22] quotes Landsell as saying that the universality of the practice suggests a common source as far back as God commanding Adam. That is of course possible, but there is no hard data to suggest it over a more "natural" explanation, such as the influence of a base ten counting system. Definitive arguments in either direction are hazardous.)

Has this changed in the New Testament? Obviously this is our key question for today, but it needs to be answered by first understanding how the world of the ancients was vastly different than our own, as reported in Pilch and Malina's Handbook of Biblical Social Values. It should first be understood that the ancient world held a concept of limited good, which is in contrast to our own society's conception of inexhaustible resources. Of course our resources technically are not inexhaustible -- they just seem like they are because we don't see the whole line of source and production! But for the ancients all good -- whether tangible or intangible -- was in limited supply, and it was obvious that it was. This was coupled with the paradigm of honor and shame, so that any person who held to too much of the limited supply was viewed as greedy and dishonorable if they did not "share the wealth" with those less fortunate. Hence John the Baptist urges people to share their surplus (Luke 3:11) and the peasant who does not forgive after being forgiven by the king (Matt. 18:23-25) is an especially bad example.

Typically, we will find two verses paired for a positive argument:

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The reasoning: the Pharisees gave 10% in their "righteousness", so to exceed that righteousness, you also have to give 10%! This is fairly fallacious even on the surface, for of course a person with millions of dollars can give just 10% away and not do so "righteously" with ease; and in view of the "limited good" concept of the ancients might even be regarded as being greedy for limiting their giving to 10%. In fairness, not many use this argument, and most just use 23:23 to say that Christ approved of tithing. But really, the most that can be said is that he approved of the Pharisees in particular -- who were usually among, not the most well to do, but the "middle class" -- giving at the rate on 10%. This does not tell us that the same percent would have been approved or demanded for the widow with her leptons. It also does not really affect the terms of the new covenant, for the Pharisees supported the Temple apparatus under the old covenant, which was rendered void in practice in 70 AD. In essence, God smashed the piggy bank that year!

Beyond that we have passages that clearly teach support, but do not mention "tithe" or any amount:

1 Cor. 9:13-14 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
With this comment Paul clearly envisions a situation much like that of the Levites and priests. As these "lived" of ministering to the people, so likewise ministers of the Gospel.

Now on this point I would insert a bit of a personal note. Certain skeptics who think they are wise have made the complaint (including to me) that Jesus never asked people for money, and so ministries today (like Tekton, or like Billy Graham Crusades, or Josh McDowell) should not either. "Jesus sent his people out without any purse at all," they sneer. It's not recorded that Jesus asked for money, true, and he did send out missions without money, but there's a certain social difference here. The people sent out on mission lived in a social world in which the ancient rules of hospitality demanded that those in the towns and villages they visited should feed, clothe, and board them. Secondarily, we have this little clue:

Luke 8:3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
How was Jesus' ministry paid for? To put it simply, rich people like these paid for it. What we see here is the typical client-patron relationship in the ancient world. So skeptics who want Billy Graham or myself to do it the "Bible way" would mean having us do one of two things: Getting our food, clothes, etc. directly from other people and living in their homes, or else finding a few wealthy people and latching on to them. So to make it succinct: yes, Jesus did ask people for money, and he asked the wealthiest people. That's how it went in the ancient world when you were one of the lower class looking for help.

1 Cor. 16:1-2 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.(cf. Deut. 16:17)
It's not exactly clear here that Paul endorses a prescription of regular giving, for in this case it is for a special project, the collection for the Jerusalem poor -- it is not a prescription for the sort of weekly "normal" giving we practice. It is also an admonition to lay aside as God has "prospered" the person. This is a rare word in the NT, euodoo, and it carries the meaning of succeeding by reaching a goal (3 John 2, "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." The clear indication is that those who get more are enjoined to give more, and this fits precisely with the social concept of limited good.

Pink [14-15] forges a chain as follows, though: 2 Cor. 8:14 says, "But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality, " The point of equality suggests that "God's people are to give the same proportion of their means and the only proportion that God has specified anywhere in His Word is that of the tenth, or 'tithe.'"

This is interesting reasoning, but exegetical leapfrogging is somewhat questionable in practice. For one thing, the very next verse states, "As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack." Paul is alluding here to the gathering of manna by the Israelites, a situation wherein each gathered what they needed, no more or no less, to survive -- in line with the premise that the manna was a "limited good" day by day. The manna was not doled out by percentages. If we are to take this illustration at value, then the principle is expounded that those who have less than they need do not need to give anything at all, while those who have more than they need are to give away what they do not need. Indeed this fits exactly with the premise of limited good, and the practice of the early church: "And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common." (Acts 4:32; cf. Luke 12:48) Not a percentage, but whatever you had that you did not need! Of course this would lead to a discussion, "What do I need, then?" but that's a hot potato for one's own conscience and more detail than can be provided here. However, it is enough to point out that vague threats like Pink's (Who says to one who has lost much money and says they cannot afford tithing, that things will get worse if they don't, and who tells those who make even $1.00 per day that they need to tithe!) are way out of line.

Note as well that Paul echoes a provision in Deuteronomy. One might argue that this contradicts the "ten percent rule" but it is here we may bring in a point which has proven elsewhere in defense of alleged Biblical inconsistencies. Ancient law codes were didactic rather than absolute. They provided a "measure" rather than a strict law to be followed to the letter. In that light the OT's "ten percent rule" is itself a measure rather than an absolute. Deuteronomy's provisions for the poor to bring lesser sacrifices rings in much closer to actual practice.

Salstrand [38] offers a rather questionable argument for the "ten percent rule" being a minimum standard: "To say that the proportion for Christian giving should be less than the tenth is to say that Judaism [which strictly followed the 10% rule] has a higher standard than Christianity and that a Christian may be more selfish than a Jew." In modern parlance we might call this "spin" -- we would say, first, that the standard isn't fixed at all, but is in accord with how one is prospered by God, and that this is by no means a "lower" standard but a proportionate one. (It also smacks slightly of anti-Semitism, but we'll leave that alone.)

Finally, Witherington [Corinthians commentary, 315] makes the salient point that Paul asks for help from all of the church -- rich and poor -- for a certain reason, which is not that he expects the poor to give of necessity. Rather, he is "not interested in fostering certain kinds of patronal hierarchical relationships" that allows just a few people to "give large sums, gain all the honor, and so further divide the haves from the have-nots in Corinth." To some extent the "egalitarian" nature of Paul's request was motivated by a specific problem in Corinth. As such we should be cautious about giving it a "universal" application.

Thus the matter of the "ten percent" rule. Now to the second primary question: What was the tithe used for, and to whom can it be given? The first part is not in dispute. The tithe of Israel was used to support the priestly institutions, the cultic apparatus, and the persons involved in it. The tithe was Levitical "pay" for their ordained occupation. The tithe was taken at the time of harvest, quite sensibly since that is how it had to be in an era before cash or checks! There is also a special tithe for support of the poor (Deut. 14:28-29).

In the NT we see that charity was offered to the poor, but also that, as noted, possessions were shared equally (what some have called "communism" -- which economically, it is; it is communism as it can only work, not under an idealistic atheism!). So in practical terms, this means that giving is to be done where it is needed. There is no rule that it "all has to go to the church" and not to any other evangelistic or missionary organization one chooses to support. There is no "my back yard first" mentality either -- Paul's collection for the Jerusalem church was done with churches who had plenty of poor folk who could have used extra help, even if Jerusalem was in more dire straits than usual because of the imminent famine.

Pilch and Malina point out a certain irony. Our celebrity "altruism" may involve hopping on a comfortable plane and flying 2000 miles to "hold hands across America" or dropping a dime in a bucket at a convenience store, or using a credit card to support a telethon, to "help the invisible and distant poor," even as those closest to us still in need are ignored or unobserved. Of course this is not a condemnation of such distance charity, since need is universal, and while you help the man in New York, someone in New York may be giving to help the guy living next door to you! Nevertheless it is clear that "impersonal" charity was something never known by the apostolic church, which saw real needs and real people.

A friend of the ministry has put together this collection of passages on tithing, along with an analysis, which can be useful for study purposes. The format is Microsoft Word 2000.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for some comments on another work, titled "Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant" by one L. Ray Smith, whose own cup of gall seems to be dishonest and wealthy televangelists. However, despite this, some of Smith's analysis is the same as our own: freewill offerings, not tithes, are what is prescribed in the NT. On the other hand, his notes based on the point that the Levites collected food and material goods for the tithe, and not money, is rather irrelevant: In the economic setting of peasant Israel, cows and grain were the "money" of the time and coinage as such was not used by the typical peasant for any purpose. ("Money" in the KJV is usually referring to precious metals not made into coinage -- bars, for example.) Other of Smith's points are rather, to put it bluntly, literalistic to the point of idiocy:

Leviticus 27:30-33, "And all the TITHE of the LAND, whether of the SEED of the land, or of the FRUIT, of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the TITHE of the HERD, or of the FLOCK, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it, "
The tithe comes from the "land," not the air or the sea. Fishermen were not required to tithe fish.
The "explanation" here reminds me of the preacher who explained that Jesus had to ask the Father to forgive others on the cross, because he was not "on earth" (but suspended in the air) and able to forgive sins as when he healed the paralytic! The astonishing legalism here is reminiscent of Pharasaical and rabbinical contrivances such as nailing a board between two houses to make them one "house" -- by the methods of ancient law codes, Lev. 27:30-33 sets an example; the reader, if a fisherman or something else, was expected to realize that this set an example for him to apply and follow.


[/size]







[/b]

@babygod
Just as i thought, you had nothing to say about the verses i referred you to in hebrews 7. The very scriptures that settle this issue we are arguing about. Concerning the last post you pasted, the writer attempted to be objective even then he betrayed his biase. Anyway as i said i have no objection to giving to the church, what actually pisses me off is the fact the churches/ pastors are deliberately twisting the word of God all in the attempt to get them to tithe. This i describe as biblical fraud and it is totally unacceptable to me as a christian. The church should always stand for the truth.

@KunleOshob.

KunleOshob:

@babygod
Just as i thought, you had nothing to say about the verses i referred you to in hebrews 7. The very scriptures that settle this issue we are arguing about. Concerning the last post you pasted, the writer attempted to be objective .

IT WAS DELIBERATE, NO NEED TO REPLY, AT LEAST, U ARE BEING OBJECTIVE , AT LEAST U ARE NOT A TITHER ,SO NO NEED TO ARGUE WITH U, WHAT I ACTUALLY MEANT WAS THAT UNDERSTAND WHAT U MEAN ? BUT I AM A TITHER, SO I WILL FOLLOW MY PRINCIPLE.BUT ALL THE SAME I SUPPORT U, JUST GIVE FREE WILL OFFERING, ALL MONEY NA MONEY

O BOY NOTHING DEY HAPPEN , U ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN VIEW, SO ME TOO, BUT ALL THE SAME NA THE SAME GOD WE DEY, WORSHIP, THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BUT ALLAH, NA SO MUSLIMS DEY TALK, SO IF U NO WAN GIVE ,NA UR OWN DECISION, BUT AS I SAID, I AM A TITHER FOR LIFE

NNA MEN BRING ANOTHER TOPIC MAKE WE DISCUSS, I LIKE U , U SABI WELL WELL