@babygod
Point taken, i won't grudge you for tithing but i believe as christians we should diligently seek the true word of God and do his bidding. In my opinion i think a lot of things as gone wrong with today's church check out my thread about christianity being missing in the church https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-148850.0.html may be we could discuss on that.

friends,

Ur tithe isn't one of those things u begin to contemplate on, whether to pay or not! God demands it from u cos it's His. Continue to temper with it and u'll continue to suffer the consequences directly or indirectly; knowingly or unknowingly. the truth alone an set u freeeeeee

Explain to ur creditor why u can't pay up at the appointed time & try to do that when the dough comes but not with ur tithe.

WOW ! This issue of tithing has generated so much heat. I feel that as christians we should always endeavour to walk in love even when we're arguing. I have a few thoughts on tithing from the little I've seen in the Word.

1)It started before the mosaic law was given. The patriachs gave tithes in Genesis over 400 years before the law.
This, like circumcision, began before the law, continued through the time of the law and probably has some deeper significance beyond the physical act. Just like circumcision of the foreskin was meant to show a covenant with God by an inward circumcision of the heart , tithing acknowlegdes that all we have is from God and is symbolic of the fact that He is Lord over our finances and lives.

2)From the Gospels (esp. Matt. and Luke) Jesus never condemned the act of giving tithes unlike how he spoke out openly against some other activities of the Pharisees.

3)There is nowhere in the N.T.where it is stated categorically that tithes should be given(I stand to be corrected).However, we are admonished to give bountifully in several places. Jesus commended the widow for giving her mites whilst the rich young ruler was shown that he didn't have the possessions but the possessions HAD him.We are told to minister carnal things (ie cash & kind) to those that minister to us spiritually.

4)There is also nowhere in the N.T. (and in the Bible at that) where it is stated categorically that tithes should NOT be given. Or that it is a work of the law unlike circumcision which is now basically done (or not done) by choice.


5)Melchisedek was the high priest that Abraham gave tithes to in Gen. 14. A parallel is drawn between him and Christ. 
Jesus is a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedek (this fact is repeated for emphasis in Heb 5,6 & 7 )
Melchisedek was likened to the Son of God because he had no recorded genealogy. 

6)The basic thing Melchisedek did in his sole appearance in Gen. was:
- he brought forth bread and wine which is reminiscent of the body and blood of Christ.
- he blessed Abraham.
- he collected tithes from him.

7)Hebrews 7:8
"And here men that die receive tithes; but there HE RECEIVES them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives."
Methinks this verse is contrasting the receiving of tithes by the Levitical priesthood with that of the Christ.
If so, may I submit as follows:
                  -The dispensation of the Levitical priesthood has been replaced by that of Christ, our Great High Priest
                    after the order of Melchisedek.
                  - Christ still receives [note the present tense used] our tithes because His own priesthood is forever unlike
                     the Levites who were a shadow of things to come.
                  -This implies that though you bring your tithes to the storehouse or local assembly (Mal 3:10), it is Christ
                    who receives them there in the heavenly tabernacle (Heb. Eight) which is still functional and of which the O.T.         
                    tabernacle was a replica.

    In conclusion, I think it stands to reason that a Christian should tithe if we have a High Priest that receives same. Of course blessings are attached to your giving ( Luke 6:38, Acts 10:4, 2Corinthians9:6 ), but if you give your tithes from a heart that loves God, then the specific blessings of tithing will be yours (Mal 3:10-12) .Please let us also remember that apart from giving and paying tithes, we should live in obedience to God in every aspect of our lives to be able to enjoy the fullness of what He’s planned for us.

grand jedi:

4)There is also nowhere in the N.T. (and in the Bible at that) where it is stated categorically that tithes should NOT be given. Or that it is a work of the law unlike circumcision which is now basically done (or not done) by choice.

You are soo wrong hebrews 7 :11-18 states clearly and categorically that the levitical law of tithes must change because, Jesus christ is not a levite it further went on the describe tithing as a weak and useless law, please find highlighted below the relevant scriptures

Passage Hebrews 7:11-18:

   11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

   12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
   13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.     14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
   15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

   16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

   17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

   18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

The commandent / law that was being spoken about in this passage is the law of tithes this can be established if you go back to verse 5 of that passage which says
5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a[b] commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law[/b], that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:


I don't know why pastors always stop at Hebrews 7:8 when they are talking about tithes when if you read the chapter to the end it actually abolishes the practise of tithing but they would cleverly and mischiviously stop at when melchizedek is compared to christ. Is that not deliberate manipulation of the scripture??

@KunleOshob,
Thanx Kunle. I’m just getting the opportunity today to reply. Firstly, I'm not a pastor but an "ordinary" christian like you who feels one should prove all things and hold fast that which is true (nothing wrong with being a pastor despite the fact that some have tried to drag that calling into the mud by being fake and deceiving people). Anything I hear, I judge by asking God and studying His Word because I know I'm personally responsible to God for my actions.

KunleOshob:

You are soo wrong hebrews 7 :11-18 states clearly and categorically that the levitical law of tithes must change because, Jesus christ is not a levite it further went on the describe tithing as a weak and useless law, please find highlighted below the relevant scriptures

Passage Hebrews 7:11-18:

   11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

   12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
   13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.     14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
   15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

   16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

   17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

   18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

The commandent / law that was being spoken about in this passage is the law of tithes this can be established if you go back to verse 5 of that passage which says
5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a[b] commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law[/b], that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Concerning the points you made I think you are the one that has it all wrong.

     What this place is talking about is THE LAW OF MOSES as a whole and not tithing alone in itself.
The word "law" here is the Greek word "nomos" which generally means regulation and specifically means the law of Moses. I don't think it could be more specific because he keeps saying "THE" law (definitive article - "the".

       If we're to look @ the whole chapter in context, (as a matter of fact from Heb chapter 5 – chapter 10), the crux of the discussion is the change of priesthood from the Levitical Order to that of the Order of Melchisedek of which Jesus is the High Priest. And the logical sequence to a change of priesthood is a change of the law that established it

Heb 8:1 “Now of the things which we have spoken THIS IS THE SUM: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens”
Heb 7:12 “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”

        Definitely you will agree that it wasn't just tithing that established the priesthood of the Levites, it was the whole law of Moses that established it; so it wasn't just tithing that was the issue but the whole law.
Heb 7:19 “For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
         If he was talking only about tithes when he said law, then this verse would have a meaning to presuppose that there was a possibility of only tithes making someone perfect. It would have read -
" For the law(of tithes) made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, "
         But we know it is not even remotely possible to suggest this, that only the law of tithes was what was put forth in the O.T. for an attempt at perfection. No. It was the WHOLE LAW OF MOSES. And that is the reason the whole law had to change because it could not bring about a perfection unlike Jesus did.
Heb 10:14 “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.”

KunleOshob:


I don't know why pastors always stop at Hebrews 7:8 when they are talking about tithes when if you read the chapter to the end it actually abolishes the practise of tithing but they would cleverly and mischiviously stop at when melchizedek is compared to christ. Is that not deliberate manipulation of the scripture??

       Like I said earlier, if we took the whole discourse in context from Heb chapter 5 to chapter 10 it is supporting rather than abolishing the practice of tithing within the framework of the High Priestly role of Jesus.

Heb 8:6-7 “But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.”

   Now then there is a new priesthood with a better covenant based on better promises. The old one has been replaced. But the question is , "why is the new High Priest still patterned after the Order of Melchisedek?" The same Melchisedek that - ( yeah, you got it )- COLLECTED TITHES !!! The way I see it he's trying to buttress the fact that this issue of tithing still exists. Or why didn’t God create a new order entirely if He wanted a departure from the tithe-collecting Melchisedek. But he keeps saying “ after the order of Melchisedek” with this same phrase repeated 7 times between Heb 5 and Heb 7.
.
          Another question is this in Heb 7:8 “And here men that die receive tithes; but there he RECEIVES them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.”
Where is “there”? – In the heavenly tabernacle.
Who is “he”? – Our Lord Jesus Christ, High Priest after the Order of Melchisedek.
Why use present tense and say Jesus “RECEIVES” if tithes have been done away with?
Because we’re still to GIVE if He RECEIVES!!!

@grand jedi
So why are you still arguing when you have confirmed that the law (of which tithing is a part of ) as been abolished?? And i can asure you that it was the law of tithing that was being specifically refered to in hebrews 7 : 11 cos it was the law that was mentioned before the statement anulling the law. that apart the reason for abolishing it was given in the subsequent verses 12 which says Jesus did not come from a tribe which served at the alter (tribe of levites) only levites are entilted by law to collect tithes (not pastors or other pretenders). This verse clearly states that Jesus was not entitled to tithes becos he was not a levite. The melchizedek example you keep giving is irrelevant. this was becos he received tithes only once from Abraham and it was a free will offering not as a result of a commandment. Unlike the weekly tithes extorted in our churches today being presented as compulsory. And the tithe melchizedek collected was from the spoils of war and not from Abraham's earnings or wealth( abraham was very wealthy before he met melchizedek). So using this example to justify tithes is not only mischivous but it is also malicious.
I think you need to go back and study the whole issue of tithing very well from the books of deuteronomy, numbers, exodus, levitcus before you read the much abused passaged in malachi, it would help you undrstand the concept o biblical tithing very well, you would also realise the only reason the levites were mandated to collect tithes was becos they were not allowed to own property or do any other work outside the temple. tithes was meant to compensate them. That reason that justified tithes is no longer in existence today. any pastor that wants to collect tithes must be willing to give up his right to own property and earn income outside the church. he must also be willing to share the tithes with the less priviledge as the bible instructed and the tithes must be in form of edible items only from those who produce from the land in his congregation. All this you would agree is not practical today, so what do our pastors do? they manipulate God's word to favour themselves. Anyway i shouldn't even be wastng my time arguing with you, you have already admitted that the law (which consist of the law of tithes) as been abolished by the priesthood of christ

@KunleOshob
I never said it was abolished, rather it has been replaced by a new dispensation which did away with many of the Levitical practices but in which the High Priest still receives tithes.
      And then, although Jesus is not a Levite yet He was made High priest who we are told RECEIVES the tithes(Heb 7:8 ). This would not have been possible in the old dispensation which shows that in this new dispensation one who is not a Levite is now permitted to take the tithes.
       And please don't say Melchisedek is irrelevant because the Word of God is never frivolous. If there was nothing to Melchisedek the Bible wouldn't have kept talking about him. Heaven and earth will pass away but not a jot or tittle of the Word will be unfulfilled. It is the principle of types and shadows that is being highlighted by the comparison between Jesus and Melchisedek. 
       Freewill or not, did you ever wonder why Abraham decided to give a tithe? Why not one-twentieth  or one-fiftieth? I'm telling you, bro, there is something significant about it. Nothing mischievous about God's Word. Everything God means He says and everything He says He means.

        I think you need to see the big picture in this issue. You mentioned the books of the Pentateuch that talk about tithes under the old Levitical order (ie Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deut.) but didn't consider the "law of first mention" ie the fact that the issue began in Genesis, the first book of the Pentateuch. This was hundreds of years before Aaron and the first Levite. And then again also the fact that a new dispensation is being patterned after the one mentioned in Genesis? This is surely not happenstance.
        Also let me say that our discussion was not a waste of time. Thanx for helping me
to review the book of Hebrews which I haven’t done in a while.
       It seems to me that we're not going to agree on this. But, hey, not to worry. It's not tithing that gets us into heaven. So rest assured Kunle, when we get there we'll go ask the Lord more about this.
       God bless!!

@grand jedi
Your statement about tithe is not what would get a person to heaven is very true, however it is a statement that reflects the mind set of what you assume christianity is all about (getting to heaven). Even though christianity is the route for you to get to heaven, the christian gospel is not primarily about getting to heaven, it is about Love. Being a christian for what you think you can get from it is selfish and against the principles of christianity. As a christian your first priority should be to love your fellow men which is selfless. love was the cental theme of the gospel of Jesus christ especially love for our fellow men and the less priviledge. This should be the emphasis of the church and the church should demonstrate that love. however this love is completely missing in today's churches, they are more interesed in what they can get from you (tithes, offerings & thanksgiving) they would hadly even come to your aid when you are in financial difficulty ( apart from offering prayers and blaming you for not tithing faithfully) this is at variance with the gospel and practise of Jesus christ and the early church. For more on this topic, please visit https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-148850.0.html

@KunleOshob

KunleOshob:

@grand jedi
Your statement about tithe is not what would get a person to heaven is very true, however it is a statement that reflects the mind set of what you assume christianity is all about (getting to heaven).

I sure hope you're not jumping to conclusions about me as I have not said anything remotely linked to christianity being all about getting to heaven.
Pls try and believe the best of me.
1Cor. 13:7 -"(Love) Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things."
And sure, I agree with you that charity (love) is the greatest. 1Cor 13:13.

I am glad you agree with me that the central theme of christianity is love, now i would encourage you to read Acts 2 : 43-47 and Acts 4: 32-36 and compare what the early christian did with their offerings with what our pastors do today. That apart i would also suggest you read through Acts and the espistles very well to understand what christian giving and offerings is all about and compare it to today's churches usage of the tithes and offerings. One thing i can gurantee you is that there was no tithing amongst the early christians and God blessed them tremendously. and the money collected was not used by the church leaders alone but shared amongst all members of the church.

grand jedi:

@KunleOshob
I never said it was abolished, rather it has been replaced by a new dispensation which did away with many of the Levitical practices but in which the High Priest still receives tithes.
      And then, although Jesus is not a Levite yet He was made High priest who we are told RECEIVES the tithes(Heb 7:8 ). This would not have been possible in the old dispensation which shows that in this new dispensation one who is not a Levite is now permitted to take the tithes.    

My dear grand jedi,

Did you say you have been studying Hebrews?
When Paul said in Hebrews 7 verse 12 that:

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law
What law specifically do you think he was referring to
You will have to read the same Hebrews 7 verses 1-11 to understand.
I wish you a blessed study.

@anonimi
Grand jedi already knows the law that was being refered to he just chooses to interprete it another way.

KunleOshob:

@anonimi
Grand jedi already knows the law that was being refered to he just chooses to interprete it another way.

yes especially when we allow foot our kingdom bills

The fact that you pay your tithe consistently shows that you love God. Both tithe and debt payment are very important. First comes Tithe then your debt. Follow this pattern, you will enjoy God's blessings in your life and God will keep problems away from you. I am a living witness.

^^^I like your style, dskj56. . . especially on the point that both tithe and debt are important issues to be dealt with. What I am not sure about, however, is the idea that tithe comes first and then debt. I think that both can be managed with a balance that separates them distinctly without confusing them for their varied importance.

There are many people who have managed their debts while still tithing. The ones I know of did not have to choose between debt and tithing - they rather made a budget that they tried to discipline themselves to, maintaining the importance of either matter while suspending other expenditure that they could without until another time. One such person called her creditors and arranged to pay a particular amount each month; and then she didn't have to bother so much about the question of whether to tithe or not - she found it easier to do so. And she came off clean, while increasing her giving in other areas.

I'm of the opinion that people should not confuse these matters in such a polarised manner. They can be managed in a sensible way, instead of the oft-repeated "tithe first before debt".

The main difference between tithe and debt payment is that one (debt payment) is compulsory while the other (tithe) is voluntary and was never mentioned in the bible for christians.

The mosaic law is dead period.It was killed om the cross of calvary on good friday 33 CE.

chukwudi44:

The mosaic law is dead period.It was killed om the cross of calvary on good friday 33 CE.

That's fine as long as you want to forever believe that. However, the law was never killed - it is not 'somebody' that you put to death. If we go by Scripture, it was you and me who were put to death and became dead, not the Law.

The mosaic law is dead and can never be resurected ,anyone trying to be justified by this obsolete law has been cut off from the grace of christ as plainly stated in gal 5;4

chukwudi44:

The mosaic law is dead and can never be resurected ,anyone trying to be justified by this obsolete law has been cut off from the grace of christ as plainly stated in gal 5;4

But who has been arguing that they are trying to be justified by the Mosaic Law in this thread, chukwudi? Who is being cut off from the grace of Christ because of your wrong interpretations? Please show me where the Bible specifically teaches that the Law was killed or died on the cross, please. I would like to read it, thank you. Remember your quote:

The mosaic law is dead period.It was killed om the cross of calvary on good friday 33 CE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycWX105K1rU




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5pohoxXcV0