shymexx:

the success of a group is determined based on ratio. And when you do a comparative analysis using that benchmark, and compare AA's as a group to Nigerians, or other African countries/groups, separately. Then the difference is quite clear. Even if we compare the top-tier most successful black people in the world, in every field, no other group of black people can compete with African Americans.

I'd also say they're also the most influential black group in the last 50-70 years. We can start with anti-colonial movements in Africa and how they were influenced by African Americans. Most of great Africans from that era were influenced either directly or indirectly, by the civil rights movements, or other AA movements of that era. Those from Nigeria: Awolowo was influenced by the anti-colonial conference held in Manchester in the 40s or thereabout. Zik was influenced by Kwame Nkrumah and we all know where Nkrumah got his blueprint from. Even Fela Kuti became Fela after embracing what the Black Panther Party was about. Wole Soyinka was influenced by the African American fraternities and sororities, hence why he started the Pyrates and activism. The Black Orpheus also helped most of the Nigerian writers of that era, including: Chinua Achebe, Wole Soyinka, Christopher Okigbo etc.. I'll just stop here for now.

Your argument is redundant because African-Americans are Africans; the highlight of your post is that African-Americans appear better off because of the environment they find themselves and not necessarily because they are African-Americans. What is the difference African-Americans and black folks in the Caribbean of Brazil? All you are doing is arguing about the strength of the American nation.

shymexx:



I believe pride and patriotism has beclouded most people's sense of reasoning. I used to be guilty of that with the Jamaicans as well. But now, I know better. In the UK, you can call Caribbeans all the names in world - however, every time the list of the greatest black Britons props up, they always top the list. I'm out there now, working, and I meet tons of highly educated Caribbeans doing big things everyday - and that kind of changed my mentality a little bit. I think the same applies to AA's.

the same for me in America, going to a Historical Black College really opened my eyes to AA and also the ones in my family of course. When I visit my BFF from school in Maryland, Georgia and California they live in beautiful AA neighborhoods. Without the strives of A A we Nigerians would not have been able to live in America in comfort. We need to really focus on how to overwhelm the media with positive accomplishments about Nigeria and it's people, because right now WE OURSELVES don't even have good things to say about our country, and standing in the global community.

Katsumoto:

Your argument is redundant because African-Americans are Africans; the highlight of your post is that African-Americans appear better off because of the environment they find themselves and not necessarily because they are African-Americans. What is the difference African-Americans and black folks in the Caribbean of Brazil? All you are doing is arguing about the strength of the American nation.

How's it redundant? I posted a comment about how people (including most Africans) view them as a group and how projecting a certain is a bad way to represent a group. Regardless, how you look at it, they're a distinct group now, however, they still fall under African family. Environment might have played a role but you can't deny their ingenuity. They built most of their greatest institutions when they were on their kneels during the Jim Crow era. That right there deserves all the ratings in the world. Africa also has tons of resources, how come we've not been able turn our fortunes around a little bit?

Anyway, this has more to do with them than the American nation which they helped build. The American nation didn't create Jazz, Rock etc. for them during the Jim Crow era. America didn't help them turn lemon to lemonade - they did it themselves. We need to learn to give credit where it's due.

biafranqueen: the same for me in America, going to a Historical Black College really opened my eyes to AA and also the ones in my family of course. When I visit my BFF from school in Maryland, Georgia and California they live in beautiful AA neighborhoods. Without the strives of A A we Nigerians would not have been able to live in America in comfort. We need to really focus on how to overwhelm the media with positive accomplishments about Nigeria and it's people, because right now WE OURSELVES don't even have good things to say about our country, and standing in the global community.

Word. That's what a lot of us Africans need to come to terms with and start giving respect where it's due. Personally, I can't even quantify how much AA's have influenced my life. I don't think they're superior but it's always good to pay homage.

shymexx:

How's it redundant? I posted a comment about how people (including most Africans) view them as a group and how projecting a certain is a bad way to represent a group. Regardless, how you look at it, they're a distinct group now, however, they still fall under African family. Environment might have played a role but you can't deny their ingenuity. They built most of their greatest institutions when they were on their kneels during the Jim Crow era. That right there deserves all the ratings in the world. Africa also has tons of resources, how come we've not been able turn our fortunes around a little bit?

Anyway, this has more to do with them than the American nation which they helped build. The American nation didn't create Jazz, Rock etc. for them during the Jim Crow era. America didn't help them turn lemon to lemonade - they did it themselves. We need to learn to give credit where it's due.

Certain things still escape you

African-Americans are Africans

Opportunities are different - Are Africans who live in America now not doing well despite not having those same opportunities in Africa?

America is great and there are better opportunities for those living within it to succeed. There isn't anything else about AAs that makes them more special. Some would even argue that they should be doing better.

I am too constrained for time to contribute meaningfully to this debate at the moment. But here is a video that would clarify some of the points being discussed.

Blacks Without Borders: Full Movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG1UVvwaFt8

eGuerrilla: I am too constrained for time to contribute meaningfully to this debate at the moment. But here is a video that would clarify some of the points being discussed.

Blacks Without Borders: Full Movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG1UVvwaFt8

This doc needs to be watched please take the time.

When ever you go to any big African festival in America where they are celebrating African culture AAs sponsored it. The biggest African Market place is owned by African Americans the largest African Film Fests in America showing African Films in America are owned by AA. We really need to stop putting them down and find out how we can work together!

Alfa Seltzer:

Give an example specific to USA.

Do you actually understand what American Specification in automobile denotes? I can not believe a person who talked about American Specification in automobile would seek examples.

The whole notion of Black Africans not being able to make it in America without the struggle of African Americans may be true, but only to some extent.

I have read somewhere that pure Africans were allowed to eat in "no coloreds" restaurants during the segregation era.

Katsumoto:
Certain things still escape you

African-Americans are Africans

Opportunities are different - Are Africans who live in America now not doing well despite not having those same opportunities in Africa?

America is great and their are better opportunities for those living within it to succeed. There isn't anything else about AAs that makes them more special. Some would even argue that they should be doing better.

You can't really compare the zeal of those who call a certain place, home - and immigrants, who just want to make it by any means necessary. Did you see what Jamie Oliver said about Britons and how he called everyone lazy when compared to immigrants (esp the Poles)? When you live in your "comfort zone" - it makes you a tad bit complacent. Even with AA's, I'd say they achieved the most when they were alienated from the system. However, I wouldn't say they have underachieved in recent times - I believe they just weren't prepared for integration, hence why they became complacent. Regardless, a lot of them are still high-flyers.

Yes, they're Africans but they're also distinct just as White Americans vis-a-vis Europeans-

I also wonder if Africans as far back as the 1940's to 1950's could attend the same institutions as the majority in the US.

I know that this is in the UK - but didn't the likes of Ojukwu attend Oxford as far back as the 1950's?

What about the Awolowo, Azikiwe, etc?

My point is that native Africans were not exactly cut off from the European world prior to the civil rights movement.

shymexx:

the success of a group is determined based on ratio. And when you do a comparative analysis using that benchmark, and compare AA's as a group to Nigerians, or other African countries/groups, separately. Then the difference is quite clear. Even if we compare the top-tier most successful black people in the world, in every field, no other group of black people can compete with African Americans.

I'd also say they're also the most influential black group in the last 50-70 years. We can start with anti-colonial movements in Africa and how they were influenced by African Americans. Most of great Africans from that era were influenced either directly or indirectly, by the civil rights movements, or other AA movements of that era. Those from Nigeria: Awolowo was influenced by the anti-colonial conference held in Manchester in the 40s or thereabout. Zik was influenced by Kwame Nkrumah and we all know where Nkrumah got his blueprint from. Even Fela Kuti became Fela after embracing what the Black Panther Party was about. Wole Soyinka was influenced by the African American fraternities and sororities, hence why he started the Pyrates and activism. The Black Orpheus also helped most of the Nigerian writers of that era, including: Chinua Achebe, Wole Soyinka, Christopher Okigbo etc.. I'll just stop here for now.

When you wrote that “Zik was influenced by Kwame Nkrumah and we all know where Nkrumah got his blueprint from”, I realized you are grossly ill-informed. You need to brush up your rudimentary source of enlightenment. Kwame Nkrumah was still a desk clerk in Gold Coast when Azikiwe obtained master’s degree in USA.

I can say your plank of argument lacked well informed and above average intellectual support.

The UK was very racist in the 40s and 50s but there was no Jim Crow law out here.

That's why we don't have HBCU's.

Also, Black Britons during that era were allowed to enroll at any uni they can get into. A lot of Caribbeans also went to Oxbridge, hence why most of black aristocrats in the UK are of Caribbean descent.

DerideGull:
When you wrote that “Zik was influenced by Kwame Nkrumah and we all know where Nkrumah got his blueprint from”, I realized you are grossly ill-informed. You need to brush up your rudimentary source of enlightenment. Kwame Nkrumah was still a desk clerk in Gold Coast when Azikiwe obtained master’s degree in USA.

I can say your plank of argument lacked well informed and above average intellectual support.

Ok, Zik influenced Nkrumah and Zik was the father of the African anti-colonial struggle.

Are you happy now?

What we should know is that the westosmess are the biggest copy cats. From language to fone to architecture to techniques to even names, they pick parts of other people's culture that fascinates them. That's why they're ahead of the world. Take it or leave it.

shymexx:

Honestly, I don't owe you an explanation for what I said but I'll just do it because you seem like a nice chap and one of the few Igbo posters that I rate on here. The rest can take it how they want - I don't give fvcks about their opinions. Cap28 and Igbo2011 are the other two. Especially Igbo2011 - because I've chatted to him a few times offline and he's a decent bloke. However, you should be able to discern why I said "Igbotic" to the OP and the context in which I used it, if you're familiar with the OP's antecedents. The guy is as fake and phony as a £2 note. There's always an agenda behind everything he talks about and I can see through his shenanigans.

...........................................................................................................................
Well, that's what nollywood is doing to Nigeria. Yet this dolt referenced it as an example of how not to copy foreign things because a peasant somewhere was influenced to speak Igbo by nollywood. And that was why I used Igbotic as the right adjective to qualify his thought-process.

Well, I took my time to go through his posts somewhere else and I can see why you felt the way you did towards him, you do understand that many people has established certain reputations in nairaland (including you) and I am really not judging anyone.
However I would like it if you would approach people's post with more open mind though keeping their character in the background, many people will learn new things from sincere contributors whom may not share the same motives as the OP. Bringing resentment from issues in other thread into a new one which might be promising does not say good about you and might appear to a certain group(igbos in this case) as if you were against all of them rather than just one of them. You do have all right though to bash anyone if they become rather uncivil with their post.

To the topic...I have hated(literal meaning) Nollywood, I have hated it with all I got, even the name itself is very condescending, back in the early nineties when I first heard the name Nollywood my friend as if he knew what was on my mind asked why can't we call it another name, why must we come off as second rate. Anyway then they had good movies, Taboo, Things Fall Apart, Living in Bondage, those movies then did not have the high end CG's of the west nor the charm of European movies but it has something which is us in it, we can identify with it and it is African in its whole because the basic platform by which Africans tell stories is to teach or promote a certain moral value that is in contrast with the west whereby the story is just told for the fun and adrenaline pump it generates.
That attribute that defined its Africaness went on with most well thought out movies that followed until the late 90's and everything became messed up, I can still proudly watch taboo or living in bondage with my African/ African American friends and they can also relate to the values it strives to imbibe on its viewers.
The funny thing is that once you talk about Censorship people will cry for something they usually describe as “Freedom” , I am still yet to understand that though.

nnenna.1:
I also wonder if Africans as far back as the 1940's to 1950's could attend the same institutions as the majority in the US.

I know that this is in the UK - but didn't the likes of Ojukwu attend Oxford as far back as the 1950's?

What about the Awolowo, Azikiwe, etc?

My point is that native Africans were not exactly cut off from the European world prior to the civil rights movement.

the racism that Ojukwu went through at Oxford is a story he loves to tell. His father was one of the richest men in Africa at the time and he used his money to floss to the hilt. He has pictures in the library at Bianca's Palace in Enugu, he was driving the most expensive convertible and wearing Churchill shoes. They tolerated him because of his wealth. The average African would not have been tolerated. Only because of a Sir Louis relationship with the current queens mother was the reason he was even allowed in Oxford. Money talks!

A non-Nigerian passing by this thread will feel very sorry for the human beings that inhabit that space.

Only about 5% of posters were able to grasp the issues I raised in the OP, focused on them and avoided the usual dumb temptations of ad hominems. Some were wanting me to name names and tag everything down as if they are in kindergarten. Of course I won't do that. The thread was even opened to warn POLICY MAKERS (most of whom hopefully are smart enough) to prepare Nigeria for the challenges of the 21st century. But I must confess that I forgot briefly that there is no Nigeria.

This thread was really inspired by something I read somewhere in Nairaland where someone was arguing that all federal universities should be sold off to private investors. The guy was arguing strongly that this is what obtained overseas. I was scracthing my head at this type of lazy mentality.
Copy and paste, that's all. No review; no adaptation!

98% of Yoruba commentators here couldn't see beyond "the Nollywood-in-Ethiopia-and-Africa" horizon. Once they got to that stage of the OP, their hearts lept into their mouths and from there every other points were useless, and the thread should be trashed.

Well, my hope is that someone in authority would implement some "review and adapt before adoption" regime in Nigeria -particularly in agriculture; else there may be no humans remaining there before we have time to partition the country into multiple nations.

ALL MY POINTS REMAIN INSURMOUNTABLE.

Onlytruth: A non-Nigerian passing by this thread will feel very sorry for the human beings that inhabit that space.

Only about 5% of posters were able to grasp the issues I raised in the OP, focused on them and avoided the usual dumb temptations of ad hominems. Some were wanting me to name names and tag everything down as if they are in kindergarten. Of course I won't do that. The thread was even opened to warn POLICY MAKERS (most of whom hopefully are smart enough) to prepare Nigeria for the challenges of the 21st century. But I must confess that I forgot briefly that there is no Nigeria.

This thread was really inspired by something I read somewhere in Nairaland where someone was arguing that all federal universities should be sold off to private investors. The guy was arguing strongly that this is what obtained overseas. I was scracthing my head at this type of lazy mentality.
Copy and paste, that's all. No review; no adaptation!

98% of Yoruba commentators here couldn't see beyond "the Nollywood-in-Ethiopia-and-Africa" horizon. Once they got to that stage of the OP, their hearts lept into their mouths and from there every other points were useless, and the thread should be trashed.

Well, my hope is that someone in authority would implement some "review and adapt before adoption" regime in Nigeria -particularly in agriculture; else there may be no humans remaining there before we have time to partition the country into multiple nations.

ALL MY POINTS REMAIN INSURMOUNTABLE.

The points you raised in beginning are legitimate concerns but cannot be separated from differences in cultural values and drive for self preservation.

The end goal of your point is that, devoid of conversative measures to protect the "trusted" home market, a "free-rein-import" approach of everything goes is hazardous not only to our economy but also to health and wellbeing of our people. This is true. There is a similar argumenton the domestic side, which is........that Ibos are destroying sociocultural values with their attitude of everything goes, particularly with fake drugs. The drugs are far more lethal with side effects and wrong prescription than in the harzards of eating imported foods from genetically modified hybrids.

You should be a spokesperson not just for a control of imports but also against the inhuman trade practice your brothers are involved in.

dayokanu: Another senseless post from the OP

Copying foreign things, How about you make your user name Madabuchi or the Ibo word for "Only truth"

Even Afam4ever is proud of his language but this useless runaway Ezeyibo wuruwuru cant use his native language or an African Language for a username

I am sure in real life he bears all those anus like names like SylvANUS, LongANUS, or ANUStasia

Donatus

biafranqueen: the racism that Ojukwu went through at Oxford is a story he loves to tell. His father was one of the richest men in Africa at the time and he used his money to floss to the hilt. He has pictures in the library at Bianca's Palace in Enugu, he was driving the most expensive convertible and wearing Churchill shoes. They tolerated him because of his wealth. The average African would not have been tolerated. Only because of a Sir Louis relationship with the current queens mother was the reason he was even allowed in Oxford. Money talks!

What racism did he go through?

lol, see yoruba dolts attacking the messenger while sidestepping the message
useless things

see this one

kingoflag:

Ive NEVER seen a Nollywood movie from start to finish.

you can't watch them because they are not meant for crackheads.
tell us one thing positive no matter how small you have added to this site since you showed up here
except trollin'
punk @ss monkey

op you are wasting your time here

shymexx:

And does the same not apply to Nigeria and other African/black countries/groups? If we do a comparative analysis based on ratio, they are way better off than Nigeria and other African/black countries/groups. You definitely can't compare a downtrodden and piss-poor Nigerian to his/her AA equivalent - can you?

Anyway, that's why I keep telling you to stop arguing based on emotions and think critically before debating people. You did the same on the other thread in the culture section before @ChinenyeN corrected you.

Your argument is no longer a comparison of African Americans and Africans but a comparison of Africa and America. People are people, irrespective of location. What sets them apart are the opportunities and advantages their local governments, economies, and cultures provide them with. America (USA) obviously offers more opportunities to its citizens than does a country like Nigeria. A "downtrodden and piss-poor" Nigerian is in a poorer situation than his African American counterpart because they exist in two separate countries. How about placing individuals from both groups in the same country? Why is it that in America Nigerian immigrants are generally more accomplished (education-wise and economic-wise) than the African Americans who have been living there for centuries? Shouldn't the African American community, being blessed to live in a country like America, be doing better than it currently is? Rhetorical questions you should ponder.

2. No one is getting emotional. You need to learn how to clearly express your points without making any unnecessary statements. I was never corrected by anybody on any thread for being emotional. However, I clearly remember refuting your absurd statements on a thread in which you tried to reason that the Igbo peoples and their cultures were "inferior" because a centralized Igbo polity never existed, but I digress. If you're going to say I did something, say the truth.

Onlytruth:


I have been more useful to myself, family, town, tribe, nations (Nigeria and US) than both of you can ever be in several life times.

Lmaoooo

Says the man whose only achievement in life is gaining an online Chieftaincy title as EzeIbo Wururu I & III of Nairaland.


ROFLMAO abeg FOH, man!

shymexx:



Ok, Zik influenced Nkrumah and Zik was the father of the African anti-colonial struggle.

Are you happy now?

You are losing serious mental capacity since you joined the ignorant flock that consisted of Kingofag, Dayolodo and Italifool, etc. This is not a matter of me being happy but your safety. I guess you look at both sides of traffic carriageway before dashing across.

kingoflag:


Lmaoooo

Says the man whose only achievement in life is gaining an online Chieftaincy title as EzeIbo Wururu I & III of Nairaland.


ROFLMAO abeg FOH, man!

igbo2011:

What racism did he go through?

Being ignored by professors, supposed lost assignments, acts of vandalism to his cars, and threatening messages left on them, especially for chatting up girls, being called names etc;

DerideGull:


You are losing serious mental capacity since you joined the ignorant flock that consisted of [size=16pt]Kingofag[/size], Dayolodo and Italifool, etc. This is not a matter of me being happy but your safety. I guess you look at both sides of traffic carriageway before dashing across.

biafranqueen: Being ignored by professors, supposed lost assignments, acts of vandalism to his cars, and threatening messages left on them, especially for chatting up girls, being called names etc;

kingofag toto

re@lchange:
see this one



you can't watch them because they are not meant for crackheads.
tell us one thing positive no matter how small you have added to this site since you showed up here
except trollin'
punk @ss monkey

Ive tried to open eyes like urs to let you know that Security, Good roads, constant electricity, good schools, Medical facilities and transportation are meant for all not just the rich of your society.

Now, apart from your useless,wide, subway-tunnel gorilla nostrils inhaling much needed oxygen thats meant for the thinkers and providers of society, gimme one reason why you havent jumped off the highest cliff in your hamlet?