Passing by..
Interesting thread, learning a lot. My advice to everybody contributing, pls try not to be insultive, and answer questions directly, the thread will be more interesting and educative that way. Moreso, it's a 'religious' thread.
Luke 2:41-45 Every year Jesus' parents traveled to Jerusalem for the Feast of Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up as they always did for the Feast. When it was over and they left for home, the child Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but his parents didn't know it. Thinking he was somewhere in the company of pilgrims, they journeyed for a whole day and then began looking for him among relatives and neighbors. When they didn't find him, they went back to Jerusalem looking for him.

46-48 The next day they found him in the Temple seated among the teachers, listening to them and asking questions. The teachers were all quite taken with him, impressed with the sharpness of his answers.

There's absolutely nothing wrong debating scriptures. More contributions pls. Moederator, could u take this to front page pls

Talkyaown: Passing by..
Interesting thread, learning a lot. My advice to everybody contributing, pls try not to be insultive, and answer questions directly, the thread will be more interesting and educative that way. Moreso, it's a 'religious' thread.
Luke 2:41-45 Every year Jesus' parents traveled to Jerusalem for the Feast of Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up as they always did for the Feast. When it was over and they left for home, the child Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but his parents didn't know it. Thinking he was somewhere in the company of pilgrims, they journeyed for a whole day and then began looking for him among relatives and neighbors. When they didn't find him, they went back to Jerusalem looking for him.

46-48 The next day they found him in the Temple seated among the teachers, listening to them and asking questions. The teachers were all quite taken with him, impressed with the sharpness of his answers.

There's absolutely nothing wrong debating scriptures. More contributions pls. Moederator, could u take this to front page pls

no. I don't think the moderator should take this tofront page, otherwise we'll have to wade through a sea of different heresies from different people to get to real and edifying comments from genuine people.

Joshthefirst: no. I don't think the moderator should take this tofront page, otherwise we'll have to wade through a sea of different heresies from different people to get to real and edifying comments from genuine people.

Two good heads... Thank you

dami_paul:

Thank you so much for ur insight and time. Could u or anybody pls answer these direct questions I asked @alwaystrue that she's refused to answer, besides telling to read some scriptures that I completely believe but have no relevance to what I've asked her.
Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses.[t] 3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach. How does this relate to us, putting emphasis on 'the law of Moses'

Always try to see the duality of scripture when reading your bible.Jesus was telling his disciples to follow the teachings of the pharisees because they sat in Moses seat meaning they were the custodians of the LAW but they should not follow their examples because they do not practice what they preach.It might interest you to know that the TORAH was only read in their synagogues from ancient SCROLLS during the sabbath.Only the Rich could afford to take hold of these scrolls which are words of the LAW AND THE PROPHETS. They were quite expensive during Jesus era. Jesus was telling His disciple to observe and follow their teachings in TERMS OF INSTRUCTIONS but in terms of IMITATION AND BEING A FATHER,they should follow HIM(JESUS). A son always imitate his father.

Paul also buttress this analogy by the the Corinthian church to IMITATE HIM AS HE FOLLOWS JESUS CHRIST.
You can see that in play when Paul was admonishing the Corinthian church that :

I do not write these things to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16 I urge you, then, be imitators of me. 17 That is why I sent [2] you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, [3] as I teach them everywhere in every church. (1 Corinthians 4:14-16 )

Same principle applies to us today,thank God we have the Holy spirit and the bible to be able to easily discern false doctrines,back then,the bible was not even in the form we have it now,it was expensive and hard to come by .We can have many instructors and cross check their teachings whether they are in line withe the Word of God like the bereans during Paul's era,BUT WE SHOULD HAVE FEW FATHERS WHO WE SHOULD CHECK THEIR LIVES TO SEE WHETHER THEY ARE FOLLOWING Christ. It is easy to know wolves in sheep skin because by their fruits we should know them.E.g Are they wives beaters,fornicators,people who use godliness as a means to enrich themselves,back-biters,covetous and greedy like baalam etc..

Jesus said we should listen to their teachings but when it comes to their lifestyle we should imitate ONLY true Shepherd(Pastors).It might interest you to know that there are many MODERN pharisees in the body of Christ today.

Mark 1:44 “Don’t tell anyone about this. Instead, go to the priest and let him examine you. Take along the offering required in the law of Moses for those who have been healed of leprosy.[t] This will be a public testimony that you have been cleansed.”
It's a dispensation of mercy, not of the works of ur hands, that's what the new covenant is all about. How does this relate to you and I?

I love to quote alwaystrue when she said

Jesus said this to PROVE TO PEOPLE YOU HAVE BEEN HEALED....go and do what Moses ordered else these people will not allow the healed leper into the congregation. Lepers were not allowed into the colony of people even same applies today, there are leper colonies. Tests that prove healing is what is used to be allow healed lepers to live with people.
Jesus was simply speaking law of the Spirit here for the benefit of the man so he can fulfil all righteousness and obey the authority of that time.

and i also added the fact that So you no go give testimony for church if God heal you of disease abi? same principle applies.OFFERINGS ARE YOUR SUBSTANCE YOU HONOUR GOD TO SHOW APPRECIATION AND THE FAITHFULNESS OF GOD IN church
That was my argument when Goshen posed the question in the tithe threads.

@Joshthefirst,
Ok.

@Bidam,
thanks for the scripture. i made a post on another thread concerning where Paul said follow me as i follow Christ and this is what i am sure the Bereans did. How does a person know if an apostle, pastor or leader is following Christ if he himself does not even know the WORD and testament of Jesus?
Paul simply gave a caveat there...AS I follow Christ.

In Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Bidam: Always try to see the duality of scripture when reading your bible.Jesus was telling his disciples to follow the teachings of the pharisees because they sat in Moses seat meaning they were the custodians of the LAW but they should not follow their examples because they do not practice what they preach.It might interest you to know that the TORAH was only read in their synagogues from ancient SCROLLS during the sabbath.Only the Rich could afford to take hold of these scrolls which are words of the LAW AND THE PROPHETS. They were quite expensive during Jesus era. Jesus was telling His disciple to observe and follow their teachings in TERMS OF INSTRUCTIONS but in terms of IMITATION AND BEING A FATHER,they should follow HIM(JESUS). A son always imitate his father.

Paul also buttress this analogy by the the Corinthian church to IMITATE HIM AS HE FOLLOWS JESUS CHRIST.
You can see that in play when Paul was admonishing the Corinthian church that :

I do not write these things to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16 I urge you, then, be imitators of me. 17 That is why I sent [2] you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, [3] as I teach them everywhere in every church. (1 Corinthians 4:14-16 )

Same principle applies to us today,thank God we have the Holy spirit and the bible to be able to easily discern false doctrines,back then,the bible was not even in the form we have it now,it was expensive and hard to come by .We can have many instructors and cross check their teachings whether they are in line withe the Word of God like the bereans during Paul's era,BUT WE SHOULD HAVE FEW FATHERS WHO WE SHOULD CHECK THEIR LIVES TO SEE WHETHER THEY ARE FOLLOWING Christ. It is easy to know wolves in sheep skin because by their fruits we should know them.E.g Are they wives beaters,fornicators,people who use godliness as a means to enrich themselves,back-biters,covetous and greedy like baalam etc..

Jesus said we should listen to their teachings but when it comes to their lifestyle we should imitate ONLY true Shepherd(Pastors).It might interest you to know that there are many MODERN pharisees in the body of Christ today.
I love to quote alwaystrue when she said and i also added the fact that So you no go give testimony for church if God heal you of disease abi? same principle applies.OFFERINGS ARE YOUR SUBSTANCE YOU HONOUR GOD TO SHOW APPRECIATION AND THE FAITHFULNESS OF GOD IN church
That was my argument when Goshen posed the question in the tithe threads.

How do I say this....
I want you to see the difference in dispensation with me. When Jesus spoke in Matthew 23, it was about 'the law of Moses', in Mark 1:44, it was about giving an offering commanded by Moses. I see what u've explained perfectly, just try and see mine. Do we still have the law of Moses in effect? Jesus told a man to go and buy a pigeon or whatever animal it was that's used for acceptance, slaughter it and put on the alter. Yes there was a lesson in what Jesus said in Matthew 23, cos we have lots of preachers today that are 'Do as I speak and not as I do' but was there a 'Doctrine' in it? Remember the whole essence of this write up is differentiating the old and new testament. Jesus gave us a will that took effect after his death, sealed by his blood and we have complete access into it through his holyspirit. Without the holyspirit, we can't have access! The veil's been broken, there's no one on Moses seat again because there's no Moses seat or Law again, we all have equal access. An access that was not available when Jesus was alive except to a select few that the Father gave it to e.g John the baptist. That Elijah and Enoch were raptured in the old testament didn't mean rapture was in force then, the all-knowing, unquestionable God in his wisdom allowed them have a taste of it.

dami_paul:

How do I say this....
I want you to see the difference in dispensation with me. When Jesus spoke in Matthew 23, it was about 'the law of Moses', in Mark 1:44, it was about giving an offering commanded by Moses. I see what u've explained perfectly, just try and see mine. Do we still have the law of Moses in effect? Jesus told a man to go and buy a pigeon or whatever animal it was that's used for acceptance, slaughter it and put on the alter. Yes there was a lesson in what Jesus said in Matthew 23, cos we have lots of preachers today that are 'Do as I speak and not as I do' but was there a 'Doctrine' in it? Remember the whole essence of this write up is differentiating the old and new testament. Jesus gave us a will that took effect after his death, sealed by his blood and we have complete access into it through his holyspirit. Without the holyspirit, we can't have access! The veil's been broken, there's no one on Moses seat again because there's no Moses seat or Law again, we all have equal access. An access that was not available when Jesus was alive except to a select few that the Father gave it to e.g John the baptist. That Elijah and Enoch were raptured in the old testament didn't mean rapture was in force then, the all-knowing, unquestionable God in his wisdom allowed them have a taste of it.

Ok, i got your point,the sacrificial laws of Moses is obsolete,but the moral laws had been inculcated in Love for God and your neighbor.Love is the fulfillment of the LAW.

Alwaystrue: @Joshthefirst,
Ok.

@Bidam,
thanks for the scripture. i made a post on another thread concerning where Paul said follow me as i follow Christ and this is what i am sure the Bereans did. How does a person know if an apostle, pastor or leader is following Christ if he himself does not even know the WORD and testament of Jesus?
Paul simply gave a caveat there...AS I follow Christ.

In Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Yeah..Jesus is the life..You can become christ-like in character by following Christ in words and in deeds that folks won't have a choice than to imitate you.It takes SITTING with the WORD and obedience to the Holy Spirit to do these things.

Bidam: Ok, i got your point,the sacrificial laws of Moses is obsolete,but the moral laws had been inculcated in Love for God and your neighbor.Love is the fulfillment of the LAW.

Please Bidam, give one, I mean just one verse where scripture grouped some laws as sacrificial and some as moral. Can you give just one scripture please?

Goshen360:

Please Bidam, give one, I mean just one verse where scripture grouped some laws as sacrificial and some as moral. Can you give just one scripture please?

Jeremiah said it in Jeremiah 7:22-23.

Listen to what the Eternal inspired Jeremiah to write: “For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I DID NOT SPEAK . . . OR COMMAND them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. But this COMMAND I GAVE THEM: ‘Obey my voice . . . and walk in ALL THAT WAY THAT I COMMAND YOU, that it may be well with you.’ ”

There you have it.The 10 commandments was differentiated from the sacrificial laws.

Bidam: Jeremiah said it in Jeremiah 7:22-23.

Listen to what the Eternal inspired Jeremiah to write: “For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I DID NOT SPEAK . . . OR COMMAND them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. But this COMMAND I GAVE THEM: ‘Obey my voice . . . and walk in ALL THAT WAY THAT I COMMAND YOU, that it may be well with you.’ ”

There you have it.The 10 commandments was differentiated from the sacrificial laws.

Bidam, please if I may ask, what's your level of education? No offense please.

Goshen360:

Bidam, please if I may ask, what's your level of education? No offense please.

Do you know you are a hypocrite? What has my level of education got to do with the question you ask? What do you think morals are? What do you think sacrifices are?

Must they be stated as moral and sacrifices in that scripture before you know the difference?

God first thundered His Commands in Exodus 20 directly from heaven,Is it Moses fault that the children of Israel were afraid to go seek God for themselves.

God is interested in obedience and not sacrifices,He always echoed it in the Laws and the prophets.

Even in this dispensation of grace,obedience to the Holy Spirit is the major key to revival.

If you can't see what God is saying in the bible until you are EDUCATED,then am afraid i can't be of help here.

Bidam: Do you know you are a hypocrite? What has my level of education got to do with the question you ask? What do you think morals are? What do you think sacrifices are?

Must they be stated as moral and sacrifices in that scripture before you know the difference?

God first thundered His Commands in Exodus 20 directly from heaven,Is it Moses fault that the children of Israel were afraid to go seek God for themselves.

God is interested in obedience and not sacrifices,He always echoed it in the Laws and the prophets.

Even in this dispensation of grace,obedience to the Holy Spirit is the major key to revival.

If you can't see what God is saying in the bible until you are EDUCATED,then am afraid i can't be of help here.

#Shaking my head#

@Bidam,
I really wonder why you bother.
Have you forgotten what Paul said?
I Timothy 6:4-5.

I will advise you to keep studying to shew yourself approved of God for there are lots of revelations in the Word and by the Spirit, and avoid being wearied.

Bidam: Jeremiah said it in Jeremiah 7:22-23.
Listen to what the Eternal inspired Jeremiah to write: “For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I DID NOT SPEAK . . . OR COMMAND them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. But this COMMAND I GAVE THEM: ‘Obey my voice . . . and walk in ALL THAT WAY THAT I COMMAND YOU, that it may be well with you.’ ”
There you have it.The 10 commandments was differentiated from the sacrificial laws.

Bidam and scriptural engineering ooo
Abeg where did u see ten commandments there... ?

Bidam: Jeremiah said it in Jeremiah 7:22-23.

Listen to what the Eternal inspired Jeremiah to write: “For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I DID NOT SPEAK . . . OR COMMAND them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. But this COMMAND I GAVE THEM: ‘Obey my voice . . . and walk in ALL THAT WAY THAT I COMMAND YOU, that it may be well with you.’ ”

There you have it.The 10 commandments was differentiated from the sacrificial laws.

Na wa o, do I need another holyspirit to understand this?! How long do we have to defend an error with more errors?!

Alwaystrue: @Bidam,
I really wonder why you bother.
Have you forgotten what Paul said?
I Timothy 6:4-5.

I will advise you to keep studying to shew yourself approved of God for there are lots of revelations in the Word and by the Spirit, and avoid being wearied.

Thanks for the refreshing words.I did not find myself in the Christian Faith by accident neither do i practice it as a religion like others.

I am passionate and zealous about Christ like Paul and of late i have been studying hard and putting my body under subjection so i would not be disqualified for the price.There are cities and territories to be conquered and God told me in unmistakable clear terms to SIT with the WORD and learn for now.

The hand of God is so strong upon my life that, i am so SURE and persuaded concerning the faith,i am not like others who are unstable as to which religion is a way to God.I know Christianity is THE WAY to the Father. None preached to me before i gave my life to Him from a moslem home.I had an encounter with HIM.

Let mockers and scoffers continue in their folly.The wheat will soon be separated from the chaff in a short while.

God is still speaking and He speaks to me everyday.I am unperturbed by what people say here.I know whom i believed and i am fully persuaded about HIM.

Bidam: Thanks for the refreshing words.I did not find myself in the Christian Faith by accident neither do i practice it as a religion like others.

I am passionate and zealous about Christ like Paul and of late i have been studying hard and putting my body under subjection so i would not be disqualified for the price.There are cities and territories to be conquered and God told me in unmistakable clear terms to SIT with the WORD and learn for now.

The hand of God is so strong upon my life that, i am so SURE and persuaded concerning the faith,i am not like others who are unstable as to which religion is a way to God.I know Christianity is THE WAY to the Father. None preached to me before i gave my life to Him from a moslem home.I had an encounter with HIM.

Let mockers and scoffers continue in their folly.The wheat will soon be separated from the chaff in a short while.

God is still speaking and He speaks to me everyday.I am unperturbed by what people say here.I know whom i believed and i am fully persuaded about HIM.

Bidam: Thanks for the refreshing words.I did not find myself in the Christian Faith by accident neither do i practice it as a religion like others.

I am passionate and zealous about Christ like Paul and of late i have been studying hard and putting my body under subjection so i would not be disqualified for the price.There are cities and territories to be conquered and God told me in unmistakable clear terms to SIT with the WORD and learn for now.

The hand of God is so strong upon my life that, i am so SURE and persuaded concerning the faith,i am not like others who are unstable as to which religion is a way to God.I know Christianity is THE WAY to the Father. None preached to me before i gave my life to Him from a moslem home.I had an encounter with HIM.

Let mockers and scoffers continue in their folly.The wheat will soon be separated from the chaff in a short while.

God is still speaking and He speaks to me everyday.I am unperturbed by what people say here.I know whom i believed and i am fully persuaded about HIM.

Sir, nobody is mocking you, and we're not confused about the way to God. Why we have different christian denominations is simply cos of what's happening on this thread- interpretation of scriptures! We understand differently even when it's in plain and simple English and we've refused to unite our reasoning.
Do you know what it means to have eyes and not see and ears and not hear? Jesus didn't bring another scripture to the Israelites, he built on the one they had. He interpreted their Laws and yet to them it looked like a different doctrine entirely. They either didn't have common sense or they just were bent on not adding anything to what they knew. I understand what you, @alwaystru,@swtchic etc said but why don't you guys want to see reason to what @Goshen360, @Candour and the rest of us are saying. Let's not meet to part, let us, in our different parts, interpretation etc, meet! God help us

@OP

That is a good question. First, it is wrong to call the hebrew-aramaic scriptures OLD TESTAMENT or call the greek scriptures NEW TESTAMENT. This is a misunderstanding of 2 cor. 3:14.

Now if we reason that the greek scriptures should start from Acts, we would logically reason that the Hebrew-Aramaic scriptures should start from Exodus(where the law covenant began).

the fact is that the bible was not catalogued as such, by covenant, neither does the manner it was catalogued faulty.

Someone can also reason that, before you tell us the acts of the apostles, you should tell us who the champion of their new lifestyle came from(the founder), how they became his followers, how he died so as to pave way for the new covenant, before you tell us the acts which came after they became apostles.

I still think that the way it was catalogued make sense.

dami_paul:

Sir, nobody is mocking you,

You infer,vouch for yourself and not the others, we have a long history with the others my friend.I KNOW MOCKERY WHEN I SEE ONE.

and we're not confused about the way to God.

My Post never said you were confused,stop reading a different meaning into what i never said,i said unlike others i am fully persuaded about the christian faith.Others may be those i come across with in my daily activities not here cos the forum is anonymous.

Why we have different christian denominations is simply cos of what's happening on this thread- interpretation of scriptures!

And what do you think is happening here,so far you and others are saying the God of the Jews is different from the gentile God and i am telling you it is wrong to infer that.There is a pattern and synergy from Adam to Moses and Moses to Jesus.Scripture records that death reign from Adam to Moses,does it mean that the longest living human in bible history is found in the NT? NO.Gosh, asked a question concerning where moral and ceremonial laws are grouped. I GAVE HIM 2 SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCES that are indisputable,instead of him to swallow his pride,he now came with the mockery of a question about my education.Pls tell, what has education got to do with bible knowledge. Education is even more harmful if you ask me because God's kingdom can't be perceived with the five senses.If it can atheist would have been converts long ago. There is no where you can see the word trinity,bible and supernatural in scripture,yet ALL THESE are quite evident in scripture.You don't need a rocket scientist to SEE these things.

We understand differently even when it's in plain and simple English and we've refused to unite our reasoning.

Here is the definition of Moral Law:

"The will of God, as the supreme moral ruler, concerning the character and conduct of all responsible beings the rule of action as obligatory on the conscience or moral nature.” “The moral law is summarily contained in the decalogue, written by the finger of God on two tables of stone, and delivered to Moses on Mount Sinai.” God did not issue the 613 laws at ONCE,show me a scripture to prove me wrong or all of you should hide your faces in shame.The book of HEBREWS talks about Christ superior sacrifice. Do i need a professorship in theological studies in your seminary to know God differentiated it? NO.

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Please understand that the Bible makes it clear that the sacrifices were not part of the original law that God wanted obeyed. And that the Levitical sacrifices were added because of the sins of the people:



22 For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices. 23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, 'Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.'


24 "Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but followed the counsels and the dictates of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward.

25 Since the day that your fathers came out of the land of Egypt until this day, I have even sent to you all My servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them. 26 Yet they did not obey Me or incline their ear, but stiffened their neck. They did worse than their fathers (Jeremiah 7:22-26).

God always wanted to be obeyed.


Yet the truth is that since the Israelites never would obey God, He implemented the sacrifices, even though His plan was always that they would obey Him. That is why the Bible speaks of a new covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

Do you know what it means to have eyes and not see and ears and not hear? Jesus didn't bring another scripture to the Israelites, he built on the one they had. He interpreted their Laws and yet to them it looked like a different doctrine entirely. They either didn't have common sense or they just were bent on not adding anything to what they knew. I understand what you, @alwaystru,@swtchic etc said but why don't you guys want to see reason to what @Goshen360, @Candour and the rest of us are saying. Let's not meet to part, let us, in our different parts, interpretation etc, meet! God help us

ALL I see here is not seeing eyes and hearing ears but spiritual pride and arrogance based ill-conceived notion that you know better than others.Maybe that was the reason why you opened this thread in the first place.Stay blessed.

@Bidam,
Inspiring life story. Thank God for your salvation. Please continue to discern the spirit as there are many scoffers this last days.
May the Lord continually strengthen you.

There is a scripture I did not add in all my discussions which I think i will add and use to conclude my posts on the testaments and leave the reader to fully discern on his own:

Deuteronomy 18:15-19
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me;unto him ye shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, LET ME NOT HEAR AGAIN THE VOICE OF THE LORD MY GOD, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that WHOSOEVER WILL NOT HEARKEN UNTO MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME, I WILL REQUIRE IT OF HIM.

John5:43
I COME IN MY FATHER'S NAME, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive

John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, WHAT I SHOULD SAY, AND WHAT I SHOULD SPEAK

Matthew 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; HEAR YE HIM

Since the Israelites rejected the word of God spoken in His voice to them out of the cloud on Horeb in Exodus 20, and it had to be written down, God sent again His WORD in flesh through Jesus as He promised in Deuteronomy 18. He has said whoever will not listen to the testament of Jesus, He will require it of Him. Moses was the one speaking by God's inspiration in Deut. 18 and we know Moses is the mediator of the old while Jesus is the mediator of the New.

The Apostles enjoyed the grace of God and His Spirit to help them understand what God had wanted from the very beginning and this is what we see played out in their Acts and in their Letters. Just like we saw the Acts of the Israelites and the words of the prophets after the law was given in the OT.
The difference is where we see the flesh heavily at work in one, in the other we see the Spirit manifest and guiding their actions!

If we spend more time studying the word of God and praying for insight and light to understand the LAW OF THE SPIRIT as Jesus gave, we will not be quibbling over words.

Okay guys, good morning to you all.

I had thought of leaving this thread before if it continued with the usual ways from Bidam and Alwaystrue but waking up and reading from dami.Paul and jman05. I will come back and explain somethings, further, clearer and deeper.

JMAN05: @OP
I still think that the way it was catalogued make sense.

The Word of God is perfectly clear on when the New Testament began and has given us the final confirmation. Thank you.

Goshen360: Smh...for this generation. Now, we know why the are all kinds of different doctrines from same bible. Lord have mercy!!!

Hmm, food for thought bro. What really puts me off is the pride many have. We argue doctrine like there's a trophy.

Simple truth is this, the passover (the sacrifice of the lamb) is the first feast of the Lord. When did the passover of the new covenant take place? Coz that is when the new covenant was 'launched'. And it took place on the cross.

If the new covenant was inforce anytime before the death of Christ and the shedding of his blood, why wasn't the veil torn before then? The old covenant was inforce until the cross.

Goshen, dogmatism is the pride we have in the church.

There is a difference between words/will/terms/testament and agreement/pact/convenant. One happens before the other.
The thread is about testament.

Alwaystrue: There is a difference between words/will/terms/testament and agreement/pact/convenant. One happens before the other.
The thread is about testament.

Pls what's the difference, scripturally, between covenant and testament, and, scripturally also, how do u enter into each? I need to make a decision on this thread, you guys are just scattering the whole thing.

ayoku777:

Hmm, food for thought bro. What really puts me off is the pride many have. We argue doctrine like there's a trophy.

Simple truth is this, the passover (the sacrifice of the lamb) is the first feast of the Lord. When did the passover of the new covenant take place? Coz that is when the new covenant was 'launched'. And it took place on the cross.

If the new covenant was inforce anytime before the death of Christ and the shedding of his blood, why wasn't the veil torn before then? The old covenant was inforce until the cross.

Goshen, dogmatism is the pride we have in the church.

In answer to the bolded question.... The veil you speak of was non existent for some such as Aaron and Moses, the elect.

With the coming of Yashua and by his exemplary sacrifice the number of the same elect has increased exponentially.

It is the priesthood that has been changed and not the Law

Different priesthood different ordinances that's all.

The elect are of the order of Melchizedek.

MostHigh:

In answer to the bolded question.... The veil you speak of was non existent for some such as Aaron and Moses, the elect.

With the coming of Yashua and by his exemplary sacrifice the number of the same elect has increased exponentially.

It is the priesthood that has been changed and not the Law

Different priesthood different ordinances that's all.

The elect are of the order of Melchizedek.

The bolded is what is confusing these guys..they take ordinances to be God's law,forgetting His moral laws are His very nature and attributes.It is eternal and never changes from generation to generation.The book of Hebrews which is the blood covenant said it all

MostHigh:

In answer to the bolded question.... The veil you speak of was non existent for some such as Aaron and Moses, the elect.

With the coming of Yashua and by his exemplary sacrifice the number of the same elect has increased exponentially.

It is the priesthood that has been changed and not the Law

Different priesthood different ordinances that's all.

The elect are of the order of Melchizedek.

Hmm, so Aaron and Moses didn't need the death and resurrection of Christ to find justification? Jesus only died for the 'rest of us'?

Talkyaown:

Pls what's the difference, scripturally, between covenant and testament, and, scripturally also, how do u enter into each? I need to make a decision on this thread, you guys are just scattering the whole thing.

Sorry. Dogmatic arguments about doctrine will always end in confusion.

The humble truth is there is NO difference between testament and covenant in both hebrew and greek.

You cant operate a new priesthood under an old covenant and vice versa.

What we had in Moses was the old covenant, the law and Aaronic priesthood. What we have in Christ now is the new covenant, the holy spirit and the melchizedek priesthood. And the relationship these three share in Christ is the same with the relationship the other three shared under Moses

God has never changed and never will, but the old covenant was never the reality of how he wanted to relate with us. It was a shadow picture of the spiritual realities that we now have in the new