ayoku777: One thing we need to understand is that the scripture, just like Jesus, is the word of God. Just as Jesus is the living word of God, the communication of the character of the Father, the bible, is also the written word of God, the documentation of the character of God.

So when we read the scriptures, we are reading the character of Christ, who is the same yesterday, today and forever. We are reading what he did, what he can still do, and what he is still willing to do under the same circumstance and atmosphere of faith and fire.

None of the promises of Christ have an expiry date, so they should never be interpreted as what he no longer does. They shouldn't also be treated as promises to be walked in by the apostles or the early church alone. If that is so then promises like Holy spirit and speaking in tongues shouldn't belong to us as well, and commands like the great commission should be none of our business today.

He is I AM THAT I AM, not i was that i was. There is nothing he did in the bible days that he cannot still do and still not willing to do. Coz the scripture is the documentation of his character which is unchanging. Miracles can still happen and will still happen if we seek him and travail in faith to behold his glory.

Exactly! Endorsed 100% by me. Imagine that we have all the responsibility for the great commission as the early church but are not allowed to use some of the tools they found useful. We must be some superman on our own!

Another thing i need to quickly add is that we need to stop seeing miracles and signs and wonders as something Jesus performs just to win souls. The supernatural is the life style of Christ! From eternity past, ever before there were unbelievers and people who needed to be saved, Jesus, the word, has been doing great things. And after the end and his kingdom comes to earth, the supernatural will still remain. The supernatural is the life of Christ and the way his kingdom operates. And it should be the lifestyle of those who are born of him and who represent his kingdom.

The supernatural should be the believers natural, and the extraordinary should be the believers ordinary. Its not just for preaching or soulwinning, its the life style of our kingdom

@ayoku777,
thanks for those posts. When we give our lives to Christ and grow more and more in Jesus living the 3 that bears witness on earth, that is, the Spirit, the water (the Word) and the Blood, we walk in dominion and exercise the authority Christ has given us.
We need to really know who we are in Christ for he who is in Christ has started living Eternal Life.

Alwaystrue: @ayoku777,
thanks for those posts. When we give our lives to Christ and grow more and more in Jesus living the 3 that bears witness on earth, that is, the Spirit, the water (the Word) and the Blood, we walk in dominion and exercise the authority Christ has given us.
We need to really know who we are in Christ for he who is in Christ has started living Eternal Life.

The Spirit, the water and the blood. So true

Many believers today will love to have supernatural experiences like Peter had at the mount of transfiguration. In fact, some still look for supernatural experiences and practises. As a people, we are so hungry for a new move of God that we have wrongly abandoned faith, reason, sound doctrine and common sense in order to grab hold of anything that even appears to have the mark of the mystical upon it – hoping that it may be the beginning of a new move of God.

Our zeal and enthusiasm for the supernatural has, to a great extent, placed us in a very dangerous position. If we continue to reach out and accept every new supernatural manifestation that comes along without thinking, reasoning, questioning or testing it according to Scripture, we will find ourselves in the same predicament, being deceived again and again like Apostle Paul said, “tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine”.

nlMediator:

I agree that healing can be considered a sign to point people to Christ. Who needs a sign more - the people listening to the Apostles - the same audience that saw Jesus? Or the people in different parts of the world today, who see Jesus as a fictional character or historical figure? I would think the latter and thus the greater need for signs to validate our message to them. Yet, some of you claim these signs are over.

God does not need to do anything to further convince anyone that He is God. As it is we have more than enough reasons to know He is.
Romans 1
19 For that which is known about God is evident to them and made plain in their inner consciousness, because God [Himself] has shown it to them.
20 For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],

nlMediator:
Sure, christians suffer persecution, as those who live godly. But sickness and persecution are not the same.

But Paul's persecution led to his sickness and his death. More than any other individual, Paul was responsible for the spread of Christianity throughout the Roman Empire. He became the subject of attack from evil men who were moved by Satan to inflict upon him bodily harm and infiltrate the church with false teachers and false teaching. He became partially blind at some point, if this man were to be alive today, many Christians will say God is not with him.

nlMediator:
James was beheaded but Peter was not at the time Herod wanted to do that. What saved Peter? The prayers of the saints. Left to you, the saints should have kept quiet and accepted Peter's condition, calling it persecution, will of God and lessons from satan to make us better! But they knew better and saved Peter, which worked great for the Church till today.

That is where the problem is, 'they saved Peter'. May be if they had not prayed Peter would have died, right? No. Irrespective of what they prayed God had a mission for Peter. Peter would never die until that mission is complete. When peter's time was up, no prayer and fasting could have stopped his demise.

nlMediator:
One question that some of you keep ducking any time this issue comes up: do you do anything to respond to sickness or disease, such as taking medicines, praying or asking for prayers?

Our body respond to biology. If I am sick I take medications and I pray a balanced prayer, I ask for God's will to be done concerning anything that concerns me.

shdemidemi: Many believers today will love to have supernatural experiences like Peter had at the mount of transfiguration. In fact, some still look for supernatural experiences and practises. As a people, we are so hungry for a new move of God that we have wrongly abandoned faith, reason, sound doctrine and common sense in order to grab hold of anything that even appears to have the mark of the mystical upon it – hoping that it may be the beginning of a new move of God.

Our zeal and enthusiasm for the supernatural has, to a great extent, placed us in a very dangerous position. If we continue to reach out and accept every new supernatural manifestation that comes along without thinking, reasoning, questioning or testing it according to Scripture, we will find ourselves in the same predicament, being deceived again and again like Apostle Paul said, “tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine”.

If you know His ways..His acts naturally comes to you.Every genuine seeker of God wants to know His ways not His acts.

Paul said that i might know Him and the Power of his Resurrection.There is a knowing in God that makes the supernatural a lifestyle.

Kathyrin kulman was a woman who wasn't pretty,she was so ordinary that there was nothing spectacular about her,yet at a tender age of 14 when she gave her life to Jesus, she decided to go with Him ALL the way never looking back.

It was said in her meetings that people sense the presence of the Holy Spirit so strong that instant miracles takes place just by her teaching about Him and singing. She doesn't even need to lay hands on people.The presence of God is there to break yokes and free men.

There is a stage in God you get to by knowing Him,that even when you enter a room full of people,they recognize the presence of God in your life.These are not fables but truths and reality.

I am very sensitive to the Holy Spirit,there are places i go to and immediately i feel distressed and restless because the place reeks of evil and sin. I immediately change environment because the Holy Spirit doesn't like such atmosphere. I am learning day by day not grieve Him by getting offended at people who try to hurt my feelings.

Anytime i read Kathryn story i feel encouraged that atleast here is someone who really chose to go all the way for Jesus and i should emulate from.

Bidam:

There is a knowing in God that makes the supernatural a lifestyle..

What do you call supernatural?

What are the the byproducts of this kind of supernatural lifestyle ?

Is the supernatural lifestyle strictly for Christians?

shdemidemi:
What do you call supernatural?

What are the the byproducts of this kind of supernatural lifestyle ?

Is the supernatural lifestyle strictly for Christians?

1. God stepping in the lives of believers is supernatural.Supernatural is not necessarily spectacular.

2.So many,one of them is not having money in the bank that you put your hopes on,but believing God to provide the next meal the next day.We walk by faith not by sight.Walking by Faith is supernatural.

3. Yes,gentiles walk with their 5 senses.Christians walk by FAITH.Two very contrasting differences.

ayoku777:

The Spirit, the water and the blood. So true

Yes, I got some more understanding regarding the verse I John 5:7-8 some days back.

Alwaystrue:
Yes, I got some more understanding regarding the verse I John 5:7-8 some days back.

Yeah, i've always studied that statement and i know its loaded with revelation which John did not take time to fully explain.

The spirit, the water and the blood are the three things that Jesus gave up on the cross after he died. And they also represent the first three feasts of the Lord:

Passover - remission of sin by the blood

unleavened - regeneration of spirit by the word (water)

firstfruit - restoration of life by the spirit.

And according to John, these three, spirit, water and blood, are still speaking and bearing witness on earth for the church and through the church.

Its still unfolding sha, but i know it is loaded. Hope you will share your view sometime. Love to hear you interpretation.

@ayoku,
Thanks so much for those insights and the deeper revelations to the feast...It was after a read a post on yours on another thread on feasts I got better understanding to the significance of the feasts...truly God had the truth of it long before...it was not just about the letters.
With the Word of God we gain new insights everyday even on the same scriptures, that is part of why the Word of God is symbolised as a doubled-edged sword.

The apostles often gave us insights mostly based on their revelations....but it is still the same Spirit....I Corinthians 12:9. Jesus is truly the Spirit so we too can study and gain much more truths.

For me I was looking at the order in which Apostle John stated the three bearing witness to how directly the communication came from God throughout the bible:
In verse 7, we see the order of the witness in heaven...Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost seeing how communication came from above...the Father direct when we see the accounts of the garden of Eden, Abraham, Enoch, the Israelites on Horeb up till when the WORD was made flesh and spoke to the people during Jesus physical presence on earth and then the Holy Spirit, another Comforter sent that abides with us foreverand guides us in all truth of the word and all agree, none contradicting.

In verse 8, we see the order of the witness on earth of the Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters just before creation then the WORD (water) came 'Let there be light'. This just means before the WORD (water) comes, there is the Spirit that is at work behind that Word..II Cor. 3:17. Have we ever considered why the Spirit was first moving over the waters and how come light came instantly at the Word? And then the Blood that came after the Word signifying the everlasting voice that speaks mercy, life, light! The blood is the last as detailed and cannot be denied. All three speak and agree as well.


The 'edges are a little rough' but there is a reason for the order John was inspired to write the witnesses in heaven and earth.

Bidam:
There is a knowing in God that makes the
supernatural a lifestyle..

When I read this...I was stirred in my spirit. I had to Kabash.

My friend, flesh and blood did not reveal that to you.

Actually, there is a level in God where you live in the supernatural daily n always. You cn achieve that by studying the word, speaking in tongues and meditation of the word.

That's the level Jesus wants us all to be. We are gods.

Hallelujah

Alwaystrue: @ayoku,
Thanks so much for those insights and the deeper revelations to the feast...It was after a read a post on yours on another thread on feasts I got better understanding to the significance of the feasts...truly God had the truth of it long before...it was not just about the letters.
With the Word of God we gain new insights everyday even on the same scriptures, that is part of why the Word of God is symbolised as a doubled-edged sword.

The apostles often gave us insights mostly based on their revelations....but it is still the same Spirit....I Corinthians 12:9. Jesus is truly the Spirit so we too can study and gain much more truths.

For me I was looking at the order in which Apostle John stated the three bearing witness to how directly the communication came from God throughout the bible:
In verse 7, we see the order of the witness in heaven...Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost seeing how communication came from above...the Father direct when we see the accounts of the garden of Eden, Abraham, Enoch, the Israelites on Horeb up till when the WORD was made flesh and spoke to the people during Jesus physical presence on earth and then the Holy Spirit, another Comforter sent that abides with us foreverand guides us in all truth of the word and all agree, none contradicting.

In verse 8, we see the order of the witness on earth of the Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters just before creation then the WORD (water) came 'Let there be light'. This just means before the WORD (water) comes, there is the Spirit that is at work behind that Word..II Cor. 3:17. Have we ever considered why the Spirit was first moving over the waters and how come light came instantly at the Word? And then the Blood that came after the Word signifying the everlasting voice that speaks mercy, life, light! The blood is the last as detailed and cannot be denied. All three speak and agree as well.


The 'edges are a little rough' but there is a reason for the order John was inspired to write the witnesses in heaven and earth.

Yeah, the edges are a lil rough but i get what you're saying. I too believe there are no random thoughts in scripture, and even order is deliberate.

Lets keep studying and waiting on the spirit to unfold it further. The dots still need connecting but i'm already getting the feeling i always get when im about to open a door that will cause a paradigm shift.

Gombs:

When I read this...I was stirred in my spirit. I had to Kabash.

My friend, flesh and blood did not reveal that to you.

Actually, there is a level in God where you live in the supernatural daily n always. You cn achieve that by studying the word, speaking in tongues and meditation of the word.

That's the level Jesus wants us all to be. We are gods.

Hallelujah

Lol at kabash

You're right, there's a knowledge that results in exploits, as written in daniel 11v36 ...but the people that do KNOW their God shall be strong, and shall DO exploits

I long for the day we can all edify eachother this way without the petty doctrinal differences that divide us. I believe we will get there, and soon too.

shdemidemi:

God does not need to do anything to further convince anyone that He is God. As it is we have more than enough reasons to know He is.
Romans 1
19 For that which is known about God is evident to them and made plain in their inner consciousness, because God [Himself] has shown it to them.
20 For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],

But Paul's persecution led to his sickness and his death. More than any other individual, Paul was responsible for the spread of Christianity throughout the Roman Empire. He became the subject of attack from evil men who were moved by Satan to inflict upon him bodily harm and infiltrate the church with false teachers and false teaching. He became partially blind at some point, if this man were to be alive today, many Christians will say God is not with him.


That is where the problem is, 'they saved Peter'. May be if they had not prayed Peter would have died, right? No. Irrespective of what they prayed God had a mission for Peter. Peter would never die until that mission is complete. When peter's time was up, no prayer and fasting could have stopped his demise.



Our body respond to biology. If I am sick I take medications and I pray a balanced prayer, I ask for God's will to be done concerning anything that concerns me.

Thanks for answering my question about using medication or prayers when you or some other people are sick. Going by your understanding of Peter’s incarceration and the will of God, does it make sense to use medication or pray when you’re sick? After all, if it’s God’s will, He’ll heal you (or any sick person) whether you do anything or not. And if it’s not His will to heal, are you not fighting God’s will by trying to get the medicine or prayer do what God does not want to do? You see, it does not add up.

Moreover, your prayer may look balanced to you but it sounds unscriptural to me. First, when do you know that God answered your prayers since whatever outcome is the will of God and you’ve prayed that His will be done? Thus, if the reason you’ve not received your answer is because satan is delaying it, as he did with Daniel’s prayer, you would not even know but would accept that it was not God’s will to heal, in line with your prayer.

More importantly, I do not find anywhere Christians prayed that kind of prayer when they needed anything (healing, provisions, etc) or faced persecution. For example, in Acts 4 when the early Christians faced persecution and wanted healing to manifest, they did not pray some “If it be Thy Will” prayers or fold under the persecution, claiming it’s God will. Instead they prayed in Acts 4: 29-30: “And now, Lord, behold their threatening: and grant unto they servants that with all boldness they may speak the word, by stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.” Verse 31 et seq. show the answer!

God will always do His will. We need not bother with that. Let’s simply pray in faith (1 John 5:14).

I know that the Scripture shows Christians saying in some places things like ‘if the Lord permit’ or ‘if it be the will of God’ (see Acts 18:21, I Cor. 16:7; Heb. 6:3; Jas. 4:15) but none of these was in the context of prayer. So, can you help me with just one example in the New Testament where the saints had a need and prayed ‘if it be God’s Will’?

ayoku777:

Lol at kabash

You're right, there's a knowledge that results in exploits, as written in daniel 11v36 ...but the people that do KNOW their God shall be strong, and shall DO exploits

I long for the day we can all edify eachother this way without the petty doctrinal differences that divide us. I believe we will get there, and soon too.

Yeah bro!
Dats y I don't engage in tithe threads anymore....or any thread folks get to argue and argue

nlMediator:

Thanks for answering my question about using medication or prayers when you or some other people are sick. Going by your understanding of Peter’s incarceration and the will of God, does it make sense to use medication or pray when you’re sick? After all, if it’s God’s will, He’ll heal you (or any sick person) whether you do anything or not. And if it’s not His will to heal, are you not fighting God’s will by trying to get the medicine or prayer do what God does not want to do? You see, it does not add up.

Bro, you don't seem to get what I am saying here. I will start by saying God isn't against medications like I said before our body was wired by God in a way that it responds to biology and our spirit to God. No man knows what God is about the next minute, we can only do what seem intrinsic to us at any point in time. One thing is certain, if you are truly led by His Spirit, He can't lose you.

nlMediator:
Moreover, your prayer may look balanced to you but it sounds unscriptural to me. First, when do you know that God answered your prayers since whatever outcome is the will of God and you’ve prayed that His will be done? Thus, if the reason you’ve not received your answer is because satan is delaying it, as he did with Daniel’s prayer, you would not even know but would accept that it was not God’s will to heal, in line with your prayer.

Bro, satan can't delay anything. If he does, then God must have permitted it. Therefore, Satan would need the counsel of Heaven before he comes to you. Christ accepted the demands of Satan to mess with Peter, after the test Peter became better than he was before the test. There is a combination of valuable and invaluable parts in us though we are Christians. For every test we pass, invaluables are removed. If We have to be prepared for future use, then tests even from satan would be necessary.

nlMediator:
More importantly, I do not find anywhere Christians prayed that kind of prayer when they needed anything (healing, provisions, etc) or faced persecution.

At the point of death, Jesus screamed that the will of the father be done and not the will of the flesh. Moreover, I don't think the apostles came together to pray for all the profane things we seem to pray for today. The scripture also made it clear that we do not know how or what to pray but the Holy Spirit searches the mind of the Spirit deposited in us. He prays on our behalf in accordance with the will of God.

26 So too the [Holy] Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness; for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance.
27 And He Who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the [Holy] Spirit [what His intent is], because the Spirit intercedes and pleads [before God] in behalf of the saints according to and in harmony with God’s will.

shdemidemi:

Was Jesus speaking to the church or to the disciples/apostles?

and who is Jesus' disciple or apostle?

Here is d conclusion for dis thread.
Who r our enemies? Certainly nt humans, but d devil and his demons who do posses human beings to carryout dia evil work. The holyghost fire is nt a physical fire but a spiritual fire, so it cn't burn people but it burn demons and evil spirit in people.
The bible says ''for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against prinicipalities, powers, rulers of darkness in high places'' meaning that even the bible recognises the fact that there are enemies of men in this world. Jesus rebuked evil spirits also while He was alive, but He didnt do that using the fire of the Holy Spirit then coz the ministry of the Holy Spirit was yet to be launched by then. And dn't 4get dat Jesus said, behold i give unto u powers to tread on serpents and scorpions, also He said dat wateva we bind on earth is bind in heaven and wateva we loose on earth is loose in heaven.
We must nt be ignorant of d power of d holy ghost in us, dn't let dis small small witches and demons to intimidate u, for power and authority has been given unto us in d name of Jesus.

asco15:
and who is Jesus' disciple or apostle?

His apostles were the twelve disciples specially chosen by Jesus to initiate the gospel of Christ.

Brethren, Shalom.

Just came into town and saw ds thread. Enjoyed d writings and insights of many here.
Hope i can still make my contribution late today whn i ve settled down.
Cheers!

The scripture says resist the devil and he will flee. Jesus never used the man made improvisation of 'fire fire' when he had an encounter with the devil. He resisted the devil by the understanding of the word of God and so we should.

The people we pray fire fire upon should be the people we ought be thanking most times. They are the ones throwing challenges our way, challenges to jet propel us from where we are to where we are destined to be. God sometimes make our circumstances break us down, we become so broken that we stop looking at any man but Him.

Joseph understood this perfectly even though his brothers found it hard to understand why he did not revenge the evil they had done to him.

If Jesus must save the Gentiles, He needed Judas the betrayer, he needed all those that were associated with His death, particularly the devil. The bible says 'if the rulers of the world had known, they wouldn't have crucified The Lord of glory'. At the end your song and my song shall be 'If our enemies had known they wouldn't have pushed us to our destiny'. They had thought it for evil but God in His infinite wisdom meant it unto good.

If we understand the scriptures well enough, we would go back and thank our enemies and those we intend to rain fire upon. As men we naturally hate pain, we love comfort but God is saying you can't grow or learn through comfort. Like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego some of us will go through even a higher degree of fire to see God. They discovered the forth man (God) when thrown in the fiery furnace.

Just like a guy that goes to the gym, he needs to put his muscles under severe pain to achieve his goal. Similarly, as Christians we must go through challenges to grow into shape spiritually.

Unfortunately for the flesh but fortunately for our spirit, we will continue to face challenges until we die in the flesh.

asco15: Here is d conclusion for dis thread.
Who r our enemies? Certainly nt humans, but d devil and his demons who do posses human beings to carryout dia evil work. The holyghost fire is nt a physical fire but a spiritual fire, so it cn't burn people but it burn demons and evil spirit in people.
The bible says ''for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against prinicipalities, powers, rulers of darkness in high places'' meaning that even the bible recognises the fact that there are enemies of men in this world. Jesus rebuked evil spirits also while He was alive, but He didnt do that using the fire of the Holy Spirit then coz the ministry of the Holy Spirit was yet to be launched by then. And dn't 4get dat Jesus said, behold i give unto u powers to tread on serpents and scorpions, also He said dat wateva we bind on earth is bind in heaven and wateva we loose on earth is loose in heaven.
We must nt be ignorant of d power of d holy ghost in us, dn't let dis small small witches and demons to intimidate u, for power and authority has been given unto us in d name of Jesus.

does spiritual fire consume physical humans?

Ukuts gp: does spiritual fire consume physical humans?

No. It doesn't consume dem in a physical sense but it consumes d evil spirit in dem and dat leads to dia deliverance.

asco15:
No. It doesn't consume dem in a physical sense but it consumes d evil spirit in dem and dat leads to dia deliverance.

and they die?

Ukuts gp: and they die?

think spiritual pls.
D Holy ghost fire burn the evil spirit in a person and d person falls down into convulsion or staggering. Then the evil spirit left d person and the person is delivered, but if the person is nt a real human being bt a demon incarnate, the person will die.

asco15:
think spiritual pls.
D Holy ghost fire burn the evil spirit in a person and d person falls down into convulsion or staggering. Then the evil spirit left d person and the person is delivered, but if the person is nt a real human being bt a demon incarnate, the person will die.

u are very funny

Ukuts gp: Why are some churches(christians) praying holyghost fire on their enemies? Is it right? Did Jesus ask us to do so? Did Jesus pray like that? Your view on this pls.

so I asked you which church you attend in your other thread critizing the catholic church and you ran away and came over here. lmao
Since you said in your other thread that catholics and t.b Joshua followers will go to hell, I asked you which church do you attend so that we can follow your heavenly pastor. Alas, Immediately I asked that question, you abandoned the thread and ran away.
Why are you so ashamed of naming your church, rather hiding behind your keyboard and attacking others.
If you are scared of naming your church, how are you going to convert the hell bound team of catholics and t,b Joshua team nah?

cant stop laughing.

I dare you to mention your church

Kamsy10:

so I asked you which church you attend in your other thread critizing the catholic church and you ran away and came over here. lmao
Since you said in your other thread that catholics and t.b Joshua followers will go to hell, I asked you which church do you attend so that we can follow your heavenly pastor. Alas, Immediately I asked that question, you abandoned the thread and ran away.
Why are you so ashamed of naming your church, rather hiding behind your keyboard and attacking others.
If you are scared of naming your church, how are you going to convert the hell bound team of catholics and t,b Joshua team nah?

cant stop laughing.

I dare you to mention your church

Just like frosbel he won't. may be another frosble monikker or his brother.

Kamsy10:

so I asked you which church you attend in your other thread critizing the catholic church and you ran away and came over here. lmao
Since you said in your other thread that catholics and t.b Joshua followers will go to hell, I asked you which church do you attend so that we can follow your heavenly pastor. Alas, Immediately I asked that question, you abandoned the thread and ran away.
Why are you so ashamed of naming your church, rather hiding behind your keyboard and attacking others.
If you are scared of naming your church, how are you going to convert the hell bound team of catholics and t,b Joshua team nah?

cant stop laughing.

I dare you to mention your church

What exactly is your fixation on his church? His questions seem valid afterall, why don't you advice people to pick up their bible and look for that place where the right word of God is preached.

Them deliverance preachers are all ignorant or liars.they teach horible things destroying homes.