Today someone and i were talking, she started making much emphasis that Moses saw God Face to Face, she also gave me a Bible verse.

"Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness." (Exodus 24:9-10).

"And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink." (Exodus 24:11).

Here we see that Moses and others saw God with their own eyes.

But later, Moses was not allowed to see God's face.

"And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy." (Exodus 33:18-19).

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:" (Exodus 33:20-21).

"And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." (Exodus 33:22-23).

And this says it all.

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18).

I showed her those verses but she kept arguing. Can someone elaborate on this please?. Tanks in advance.

The Bible says so in Deutronomy 34:10 "10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,"

Bro Pee: The Bible says so in Deutronomy 34:10 "10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,"

is John 1:18 wrong?

Moses saw what he understood to be God in that dispensation of the law. But the true God of christ, nobody ever saw before the death and resurrection of christ. The true God of Christ was always hidden. What the people of old saw was a shadow(imitation) of him, being that the Law of moses was the standing system of righteousness and under that system, God cannot be seen nor understood.

okeyxyz: Moses saw what he understood to be God in that dispensation of the law. But the true God of christ, nobody ever saw before the death and resurrection of christ. The true God of Christ was always hidden. What the people of old saw was a shadow(imitation) of him, being that the Law of moses was the standing system of righteousness and under that system, God cannot be seen nor understood.

God cannot be understood? Hmmmm, can you prove all these with scriptures please?

alll these christians behave like prophets themselves.

okeyxyz: Moses saw what he understood to be God in that dispensation of the law. But the true God of christ, nobody ever saw before the death and resurrection of christ. The true God of Christ was always hidden. What the people of old saw was a shadow(imitation) of him, being that the Law of moses was the standing system of righteousness and under that system, God cannot be seen nor understood.

You forgot to read this.
Exodus 33:11 (NIV) -The LORD would speak to Moses face to face,as a man speaks with his friend.Then Moses would return to the camp,but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.How does a man speaks with his friend? Will you back your friend? Moses saw god in the bible,face to face.Ojukoroju hmmm

Those verses were contradictions, the more you try to substantiate the more evident they became.

Moses was an evil, cold-blooded murder. He was no better than Hitler...

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)

This is genocide! How was Hitler's genocide worse? He did not succede, where Moses did. If god showed himslef to this monster, then that god is a monster and is likely a fan of Hitler...

NoProphecy: Moses was an evil, cold-blooded murder. He was no better than Hitler...

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)

This is genocide! How was Hitler's genocide worse? He did not succede, where Moses did. If god showed himslef to this monster, then that god is a monster and is likely a fan of Hitler...

how does this answer the op?

Interesting topic @OP. First let me say this the Bible is not a literal material and therefore the Holy Spirit is essential is knowing and understanding it contents and of course the believer must be diligent in studying. The issue u guys had was simply due to not understanding the concept of dispensations in the Bible. Moses did not see God, but was actually communicating with angels who represented God as recorded in Gal 3, the law was a shadow and did not represent the perfect desire and will of God. But let me say this I'm a bit "envious" of Moses, because no other man in the IT enjoyed and experienced the gifts of the HS like Moses did.

okeyxyz: Moses saw what he understood to be God in that dispensation of the law. But the true God of christ, nobody ever saw before the death and resurrection of christ. The true God of Christ was always hidden. What the people of old saw was a shadow(imitation) of him, being that the Law of moses was the standing system of righteousness and under that system, God cannot be seen nor understood.

If I talk to you now the first thing you will say is "You are not a Christian". You should really learn to look before you cross the road.

lanrexlan: You forgot to read this.
Exodus 33:11 (NIV) -The LORD would speak to Moses face to face,as a man speaks with his friend.Then Moses would return to the camp,but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.How does a man speaks with his friend? Will you back your friend? Moses saw god in the bible,face to face.Ojukoroju hmmm

Thank you jare.

noblefada: Interesting topic @OP. First let me say this the Bible is not a literal material and therefore the Holy Spirit is essential is knowing and understanding it contents and of course the believer must be diligent in studying. The issue u guys had was simply due to not understanding the concept of dispensations in the Bible. Moses did not see God, but was actually communicating with angels who represented God as recorded in Gal 3, the law was a shadow and did not represent the perfect desire and will of God. But let me say this I'm a bit "envious" of Moses, because no other man in the IT enjoyed and experienced the gifts of the HS like Moses did.

At last! The first "not literal" apologist arrives.

noblefada: Interesting topic @OP. First let me say this the Bible is not a literal material and therefore the Holy Spirit is essential is knowing and understanding it contents and of course the believer must be diligent in studying. The issue u guys had was simply due to not understanding the concept of dispensations in the Bible. Moses did not see God, but was actually communicating with angels who represented God as recorded in Gal 3, the law was a shadow and did not represent the perfect desire and will of God. But let me say this I'm a bit "envious" of Moses, because no other man in the IT enjoyed and experienced the gifts of the HS like Moses did.

Moses saw god in the bible,stop lieing.He and the elders of Israel even dine and wine with god and the angels.

Moses; one the worst men in the Bible yet regarded as the closest to God.

macof: Moses; one the worst men in the Bible yet regarded as the closest to God.

hehehe, ona no go kill person with laff 4 nairaland.

MEILYN: hehehe, ona no go kill person with laff 4 nairaland.

no be us na.
Na Bible o

Today we keep bastardizing scriptures without careful investigation\study and allow the Holy Spirit to help our understand and\or interpretation. How do we treat scriptures that looks contradictory? One thing I know is, scriptures don't contradict themselves except for the fact that we are too lazy to study\investigate to allow perfect interpretations. Now, read this,

King James Bible
And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Exodus 33:18-20

Question: What did Moses asked to see?
Answer: God's GLORY

Question: What did God said Moses cannot see?
Answer: God's FACE

What is the interpretation?
God's glory if seen or experience is as though God's face is seen. We need to begin to pay careful attention to details and context plus follow conversation in our study.

Otherwise, God Himself will be lying and these scriptures will also be lying - John 1:18, John 6:46. Moses never saw God face-to-face though the expression is literal but it was God's glory seen as though God's face seen demonstrated through the 'angel of God's presence' (Isaiah 63:9). When he, Moses received the law, it was God speaking face-to-face with him via His glory through the angel of God's presence.

New Living Translation
Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. Galatians 3:19

This is a very important part of scriptures that should be discerned with the holy spirits help. I will open a thread on it tomorrow by Gods grace.

Exodus 18:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. 19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Blessed be the name of the lord.
Men cannot see God, men cannot even experience Gods goodness because of sin. You see, Gods goodness consumes sin. God is holy. He cannot accept sin. A sinful man cannot stand in his prescence.
It is only a man who stands on the rock, a man whom in his mercy, God covers, that can experience the goodness of the Lord.
God is good. Man has sinned. Once we accept Jesus, we stand on the rock. The rock of ages clefts for us, and we are able to see Gods goodness. We are able to know God in new light.
It will be perfect when we completely get to heaven in resurrected bodies, bodies reedemed from the corruption of sin. There, we shall gaze upon Gods face. Blessed be God forevermore.

So, was Jacob lying when he said this?

Genesis 32:30

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Alfa Seltzer: So, was Jacob lying when he said this?

Genesis 32:30

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Jacob saw angels going up and down and heard God's voice at one time.


It is common in scripture to replace God with his messengers; the angels.
Even manoah, samsons father saw an angel and was afraid he'd die.
Interpret scripture with scripture.

Judges 13:21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord. 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God .

Joshthefirst: Jacob saw angels going up and down and heard God's voice at one time.


It is common in scripture to replace God with his messengers; the angels.
Even manoah, samsons father saw an angel and was afraid he'd die.
Interpret scripture with scripture.

Judges 13:21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord. 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God .

So Jacob didn't know what he was talking about then?

Alfa Seltzer:

So Jacob didn't know what he was talking about then?

He's trying to tell you Jacob was a liar when he(Jacob) said he saw god face to face

Alfa Seltzer:

So Jacob didn't know what he was talking about then?

Jacob must have been drunk.
Am sure Moses was too

Joshthefirst: Jacob saw angels going up and down and heard God's voice at one time.


It is common in scripture to replace God with his messengers; the angels.

Yeah,in the bible even when god was in a hot temper,he replaced himself with an angel.Exodus 33:2-3 (NIV) -I(God) will send an angel before you and drive out the Canaanites,Amorites,Hittites,Perizzites,Hivites and Jebusites.Go up to the land flowing with milk and honey.But I(God) will not go with you,because you are a stiff-necked people and I(God) might destroy you on the way.He was angry here,so he replaced himself with an angel.

Even manoah,samsons father saw an angel and was afraid he'd die.
Interpret scripture with scripture.

Judges 13:21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord. 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die,because we have seen God .

Do God and Angels have the same face? Read this
Exodus 3:2-6 (NIV) -There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush.Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.
So Moses thought,I will go over and see this strange sight--why the bush does not burn up.When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look,God called to him from within the bush,Moses! Moses!
And Moses said,Here I am.Do not come any closer,God said.Take off your sandals,for the place where you are standing is holy ground.
Then he said,I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham,the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.At this,Moses hid his face,because he was afraid to look at God.It was angel that first appeared to Moses in the flames of fire in the beginning,then reading towards the end Moses was afraid to look at God's face.Is the face of god and Angels the same?

No. The face of angels is not the face of God

Joshthefirst: No. The face of angels is not the face of God

Explain those verses abeg

lanrexlan: Yeah,in the bible even when god was in a hot temper,he replaced himself with an angel.Exodus 33:2-3 (NIV) -I(God) will send an angel before you and drive out the Canaanites,Amorites,Hittites,Perizzites,Hivites and Jebusites.Go up to the land flowing with milk and honey.But I(God) will not go with you,because you are a stiff-necked people and I(God) might destroy you on the way.He was angry here,so he replaced himself with an angel.
Do God and Angels have the same face? Read this
Exodus 3:2-6 (NIV) -There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush.Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.
So Moses thought,I will go over and see this strange sight--why the bush does not burn up.When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look,God called to him from within the bush,Moses! Moses!
And Moses said,Here I am.Do not come any closer,God said.Take off your sandals,for the place where you are standing is holy ground.
Then he said,I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham,the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.At this,Moses hid his face,because he was afraid to look at God.It was angel that first appeared to Moses in the flames of fire in the beginning,then reading towards the end Moses was afraid to look at God's face.Is the face of god and Angels the same?

The Bible has been altered to fit selfish needs(mostly political)

Moses was the first holy criminal
before Moses the children of Israel were pagans, and like all paganic religions they had multiple gods, that they called Elohim(children of El).
El was the father of the Elohim.
But Moses taught them to worship The Elohim as one instead of the numerous gods.
www.nairaland.com/1482409/original-religion-jews

I believe on many occasions in the Old testament like exodus 3:2-6 "angel" was used in reference to one of the "Elohim"

Many times Abraham and Jacob met beings referred as "Lord" and we all know that "Lord" is used to refer to "God"

Moses was just a chronic criminal and known to be the first man to establish a religion.

Abraham was a pagan but Genesis made it seem as if, He was a different from his people at Haran

lanrexlan: Explain those verses abeg

the angel was sent to represent God. It would be logical for men to think they have seen God when they see angels.
Moses cases was very unique, since the angel was sent there to personify God.
Just like manoah thought he had seen God and would die.

MEILYN: God cannot be understood? Hmmmm, can you prove all these with scriptures please?

lanrexlan: You forgot to read this.
Exodus 33:11 (NIV) -The LORD would speak to Moses face to face,as a man speaks with his friend.Then Moses would return to the camp,but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.How does a man speaks with his friend? Will you back your friend? Moses saw god in the bible,face to face.Ojukoroju hmmm

I said before: Moses saw and spoke with what he understood to be God in that dispensation of the Law. But in reality it was not God but entities/angels carrying out the mandate of God(again in the dispensation of the law). But the law is gone now(to them that believe) and angels no longer have the mandate to speak in the place God.

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him(John 1:18).

Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father(John 6:46).

So this did not happen?

Genesis 26:24

24 And the Lord appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake.

noblefada: Interesting topic @OP. First let me say this the Bible is not a literal material and therefore the Holy Spirit is essential is knowing and understanding it contents and of course the believer must be diligent in studying. The issue u guys had was simply due to not understanding the concept of dispensations in the Bible. Moses did not see God, but was actually communicating with angels who represented God as recorded in Gal 3, the law was a shadow and did not represent the perfect desire and will of God. But let me say this I'm a bit "envious" of Moses, because no other man in the IT enjoyed and experienced the gifts of the HS like Moses did.

Thank you ma brother. You have sparks of wisdom in knowing about dispensations. I know that God cannot appear and be seen under that era of the Law. It takes wisdom to know this, not just reading and following the literalness of the words writing in old testament scripture. Moses(and the prophets and patriachs) honestly thought he was speaking with "The God Almighty", but as a son of grace, I know better, I should be the one judging the correctness of the context and accounts of the law dispensation rather than that dispensation judging the correctness of my interpretations.