spencerwilliams: u hv nt answered my question i said wat wil u say about d book of revelations.

Lordlexyy: Why do you choose to deceive and be deceived? Spirits don't die. The bible clearly stated that hell is prepared for the devil and his demons. If there will be gnashing of teeth, what exactly are you driving at? Why would Jesus use the phrase 'hell' if the instance (btw lazarus and the rich man) according to you was to warn the pharases? Logically, if there isn't hell but total annihilation as most of you opined, would there be need for accountability or morality? Would there be need for judgement? Would there be need keeping the devil up till this moment, to do what?

NativeBoy: Those who do not believe in the concept of hell. You will have a lot of work to do to explain the very clear teaching of Christ, the writings of Paul and Peter, and what is in the book of Revelations. There are too many scriptures to count that speak clearly on this matter. I am quite interested in your interpretation of them.

Hell is not a reprehensible concept. The bible makes it clear that it was a place prepared for the devil and his angels. But man's choice will take him there if he rejects Christ.

I am interested in your interpretation of the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man that Jesus spoke.

[quote author=Lordlexyy] Why do you choose to deceive and be deceived? Spirits don't die. The bible clearly stated that hell is prepared for the devil and his demons.

Uyi Iredia:

Correction ! Agnostic ATHEIST. This pretense that agnostic is somehow seperatw from atheism pisses me off, besides many atheist don't entirely conclude there is no God.

Rosieflower: D story of d rich man nd Lazarus is a
parable nt literal

Oduduwaboy:

Abi o. so i was taught in Sunday school those days . But i realized the Pentecostal leaders started re-writing the bible when they started talking of different versions and translations in other to prove points that suit their selfish purposes via tenuous and abstruse arguements and illogics .

Rosieflower: D story of d rich man nd Lazarus is a parable nt literal

NativeBoy:

The issue is whether Jesus spoke of Hell as a real place. If Hell is symbolic in the parable and death represents the ultimate finality, how does the dialog happen between Lazarus and the Rich Man?

If the dead know nothing and they simply vanish then there is no reason to accept Christ. After all, if you simply cease to be, what does it matter? It's all the same to you whether some people are experiencing eternal bliss or not.

TroGunn:

You will simply cease to exist if you die - fact. Same as Adam is no more, just as God said.

Why does it then matter?

Because life, even when difficult like now, is desirable. And the future life would be wonderful. Why would a sensible person want to cease to exist, when he can live in a world where "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain"? ( Rev 21:4). With all the secrets of the universe to learn and unlock - which is enough job to do eternally, with the company of like minded friends, and not forgetting good food and delicious wines.

I don't know about you, but I ( and many millions/billions I believe) love life and want to keep having it.

The lie of hellfire hasn't made people to turn good - just drives reasonable people from God and serves Satan's purpose - the father of the lie.

NativeBoy:

The issue is whether Jesus spoke of Hell as a real place. If Hell is symbolic in the parable and death represents the ultimate finality, how does the dialog happen between Lazarus and the Rich Man?

If the dead know nothing and they simply vanish then there is no reason to accept Christ. After all, if you simply cease to be, what does it matter? It's all the same to you whether some people are experiencing eternal bliss or not.

NativeBoy:

If the dead know nothing and they simply vanish then there is no reason to accept Christ. After all, if you simply cease to be, what does it matter? It's all the same to you whether some people are experiencing eternal bliss or not.

Lordlexyy: Thanks bro. It reminds me of Christ's transfiguration at the garden where He met both Moses and Elijah. Maybe that also could be sympolic or proverbial as our friends wanted us to believe that once dead everything ceased to exist.

NativeBoy:

The purpose of hellfire isn't to intimidate people into accepting Christ. That is a misconception. Personally, I didn't accept Christ because I didn't want to go Hell. One comes to Christ by recognizing one's sin and repenting. That is for another thread though.

Can you not see that it makes no difference whether you accept Christ or not if the result is simply ceasing to be. What reason does a person who doesn't believe in heaven, or having questions answered care about spending an eternity with Jesus. There are many atheists that have stated their desire for what you are saying. Can I just vanish? The reason they desire it is because they realize that if it is a viable option, there is really no consequence for rejecting Christ.

frosbel:

I cannot believe your sadistic statement above.

You are not satisfied that God may reward you with eternal life, he must also punish humanity and possibly some of the relatives you know for endless ages in a furnace of fire.

I can assure you that this dark dogma of the apostate catholic church has nothing to do with the God of the bible.

If you keep preaching it , you will surely end up with either false converts (which seems to be the case in about 80% of Nigerian churches ) or a heap of backsliders.


Ignorance is not an excuse, learn !

NativeBoy:

The purpose of hellfire isn't to intimidate people into accepting Christ. That is a misconception. Personally, I didn't accept Christ because I didn't want to go Hell. One comes to Christ by recognizing one's sin and repenting. That is
person who doesn't believe in heen, or having questions answered care about spending an eternity with Jesus. There are many atheists that have stated their desire for what you are saying. Can I just vanish? The reason they desire it is because they realize that if it is a viable option, there is really no


na wa o. must God punish people by all means !

consequence for rejecting Christ.

NativeBoy:

It's not about being sadistic. What joy do I derive from people going to Hell? But it's not about me, it's about Christ. It's about His return to judge the world. It is pretty clear that there will be punishment. It won't be just "Ok just disappear." If that was the case, what is the purpose of judgement. When they die, they should just stay dead.

TroGunn:

Pls reread my post - it makes a great difference if one follows Christ. You get to live endlessly in a wonderful world.

Those who deliberately and knowingly reject Christ and God will get their just reward - death/destruction/cut-off (lifelessness).

Burning people eternally in a fire for fun is something God said did not enter his mind:

Jeremiah 19:5 - "They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal--something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind".

If it did not enter God's mind at this time to burn people for fun, one wonders when it did and why. Truth is, it's still not on God's mind.

Eternal torment is pure sadism - simple, and it finds no support in the Bible.

frosbel:

But Christ never spoke of everlasting burning for anybody, so where did you get this doctrine from ? Catholic Church ?

NativeBoy:

You're using that scripture out of context. That is referring to human sacrifice not judgment of the unrighteous.

NativeBoy:

He did in the Book of Revelations. By rejecting Hell, then you must ask what is the purpose of judgement after death. Why doesn't God just let them stay dead? This isn't something you can answer without making all kinds of assumptions and rationalizing.

Joshthefirst:
But Hell is very real. If there's no hell, then there's no heaven. Why should there be an eternal perfect and righteous place such as heaven then?

NativeBoy:

He did in the Book of Revelations. By rejecting Hell, then you must ask [b]what is the purpose of judgement after deat[/b]h. Why doesn't God just let them stay dead? This isn't something you can answer without making all kinds of assumptions and rationalizing.

Joshthefirst: will they cease to exist? As in disappear?

NativeBoy: It should be stated clearly though that the final destination for all those who did not receive Christ is the lake of fire, the second death. Oftentimes this is spoken synonymously with hell but they are separate things. Hell (Sheol in the OT and Hades in the NT) is not permanent, the lake of fire is (the second death) is.

Bidam: This topic has long been thrashed on this forum.The JW have their own definition contrary to clear teachings from scriptures about Hell.

The truth is Hell is real and Heaven is real. The story of lazarus and the rich man is not a parable but a certainty.

Encircling religious spirits will claim that we are holding onto traditions and doctrines of old, but thats a demonic lie from the pit of hell itself.

satan knows that if he can bring more confusion on this matter,he will have more converts who are comfortable with living a life of illusion.

satan himself is defiled and he seeks to defile everything that he touches,especially ignorant folks who interpret scripture with human standards and understanding rather than by the Holy Spirit.

satan is indeed a speaking and arrogant spirit,you can see so many cults all over the place claiming they understood the hell doctrine using their rational thinking,reason and human efforts and not with the Help of the Holy Spirit.

Bidam: using your twisted logic why would satan be the author and finisher of hell?Hell was prepared for satan and his angels according to scripture. A kingdom divided against itself comes to nothing. Keep deceiving and being deceived.

NativeBoy:

Please point to where that is in the
Bible? Where satan will cast people into hell?

NativeBoy:

Actually there are elements in the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man that show that it is provable not a parable. But that can be debated and it isn't the issue at hand. The point is that whether it is a parable or not, if Hell didn't exist, then what was Jesus talking about? If all that awaits is death then how is all the dialogue between Lazarus and the rich man happening? Then what is Abraham's bosom? What is the parable about then? What is "permanent removal"?

You see that in denying Hell, you create a lot more questions for which answers must now be invented.

NativeBoy: Or this?
So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:49, 50 NKJV)

If the dead feel nothing. Who will be wailing and gnashing their teeth?

truthislight:

Can you show to me how the lake of fire is a perment place of torment ?

truthislight:

No! It is you that have the problem for saying it is not a parable.

How can you say that Abraham was literally in heaven when Jesus christ said no man has ascended to heaven befor ?

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13).
..........

So, you are wrong man, it was a parable and thats that.

If you dont know what that parable means, say so.