[quote author=Zikkyy]

There was no need to change the tithe. It belonged to the levites as an inheritance. The tithe practice went with them (levites), that was why the apostles never bothered to teach tithe.

That is not to say you cannot practice the pastoral version of tithe today. Just note that you are not paying God's tithe, that's all.

so we can also say even Jesus paid tithe to Melchizedek na, abi?

Tithe (i.e. the giving of a tenth or 10% in ya language) was never abolished. what been abolish is God's tithe. you can still practice ya personal/pastoral version of tithe, no wahala

[quote author=trustman]

You also said these:
A vital principle to remember concerning the Old and New Covenants is that what did not originate with the Old Covenant did not die with it. ( You of all people is guilty of this error. )

Even at that the judaizers were advocating for Moses custom of circumcision for salvation, no where did it mention Abraham.

I then went on to show you how 2 things - family priesthood & circumcision - that predated the law are no longer applicable or compulsory for the Christian.

A little education for you here - anyone can still undertake circumcision, but anyone who decides not to be circumcised is not estrange from God.Pre-law or Under the law this was not so.

And this referred to PHYSICAL CIRCUMCISION even though God would later make reference to circumcision of the heart.

On the family priesthood you had no answer.

This was to debunk your statement that 'what did not originate with the Old Covenant did not die with it. By the way, what about sabbath day observance, hope you know it predated the law? When it came to the New Covenant what happened?

It was obvious to the judaizers that the Mosaic Law replaced anything before it. So their reference to what was subsisting at their time was only normal. As at their time the Mosaic Law was ALL that God expected them to follow; nothing else. So if Abraham was not mentioned it was because the Law was the 'Standing Order' as at their time not Abraham's system.

Colossians 2: 8-11 – See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
In him you were also circumcised with a

[quote author=trustman]

Talking about shadows, was it only sacrifices that were a SHADOW of what is to come?

See what Hebrews 10:1 says - "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship."

Does God want you to obey the reality rather than the shadow?

DrummaBoy: Bidam tells us that Samuel collected tithes.



Simple question requiring a simple answer, thank you.

Bidam:
The leviticus can't be used by you to define the tithes amidst so many glaring scriptural evidences that it is not agric produce, i have shown you other scripture,so you don't define God's tithe that way, it is just like saying Jesus is God, MAN, Prophet, Apostle,priest, King, so can you define who Jesus is?

Bidam:
it is just like saying Jesus is God, MAN, Prophet, Apostle,priest, King, so can you define who Jesus is?

Bidam:
Tithes is not your so called agric produce. It can be oil,wine,corn..etc to describe is not to define wrong analogy.

ABDULADINO: Unlike you, i don't need to go to irrelevancies to prove a point.

God expresses His promise in I Samuel 2: 35 - "And I will raise me up a faithful priest."

So how do priest of Old minister before the Lord in shiloh? was Samuel a priest of God? yes or no?

35 And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever. 36 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left in thine house shall come and crouch to him for a piece of silver and a morsel of bread, and shall say, Put me, I pray thee, into one of the priests' offices, that I may eat a piece of bread - 1 Samuel 2

19 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground. 20 And all Israel from Dan even to Beersheba knew that Samuel was established to be a prophet of the LORD. 21 And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD - 1 Samuel 3

15 And Samuel judged Israel all the days of his life. 16 And he went from year to year in circuit to Bethel, and Gilgal, and Mizpeh, and judged Israel in all those places. 17 And his return was to Ramah; for there was his house; and there he judged Israel; and there he built an altar unto the LORD - 1 Samuel 7

Bidam:
You are trying hard to justify your folly here, you can quote a dictionary to tell us what agric is which in no way is found in scripture but you cannot quote the same dictionary to explain what WHETHER means

wheth·er (hwr, w-)
conj.
1. Used in indirect questions to introduce one alternative: We should find out whether the museum is open. See Usage Notes at doubt, if.
2. Used to introduce alternative possibilities: Whether she wins or whether she loses, this is her last tournament.
3. Either: He passed the test, whether by skill or luck.

so whether here is a conjunction word used to introduce an alternative possibility. The society at that time was majorly agrarian, not many owned silver,gold, no miners etc. So whether was used to qualify the majority of the populace.That did not stop others that are not farmers from tithing.

Bidam:
The society at that time was majorly agrarian, not many owned silver,gold, no miners etc. So whether was used to qualify the majority of the populace.That did not stop others that are not farmers from tithing.

Bidam:
Notice. God says, “For all the earth is Mine” (Ex. 19:5) and “Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord’s your God, the earth also, with all that therein is” (Deut. 10:14) and also “whatsoever is under the whole heaven is Mine” (Job 41:11). King David wrote, “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein” (Psa. 24:1). I Corinthians 10:26 repeats his words.

God also says, “For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills...If I were hungry, I would not tell you: for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof” (Psa. 50:10, 12). Finally, the prophet Haggai wrote, “The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine, says the Lord” (Hag. 2:8 ).

Bidam:
here is a scripture to ponder on.

"Yea, The Lord will answer and say unto His people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen: But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things. Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for The Lord will do great things." (Joel 2:19-21 KJV)

So because corn, wine and oil is found here should we use your definition and say they are agric produce shey?

Bidam:
Is it not God that sends them according to that passage? Even manna( coriander seeds) fell from heaven for the children of Israel, should you now foolishly label agric produce? You see ya lyf. Another scripture to consider, to show you the futlity of your folly is "For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth." (Amos 9:9 KJV) so you can see that the corn here is not talking about agric produce.

Bidam: This are your lies and ideologies,scripture in no way says tithes are converted into traveling money and food.. let's stick to what the bible says abeg..Here it is for your perusal.


DEUTERONOMY 14:22-25
22 You shall truly tithe all the increase of your seed, that the field brings forth year by year.
23 And you will eat before the LORD your God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of your corn, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks; that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.
24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry it; or if the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD your God has blessed you:
25 Then shall you turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and shall go to the place which the LORD your God shall choose:

The tithes were to be brought to the place where God chose "to put his name there" (Deuteronomy 12:5), "to cause his name to dwell there;" (Deuteronomy 12:11), "to place his name there," (Deuteronomy 14:23). In those days this specifically referred to the Temple in Jerusalem (1 Kings 9:3; 2 Kings 21:4; 21:7; 2 Chronicles 33:7).

Zikkyy:

verse 22 says tithe the increase of ya seed that the field bring forth. Did you read that? God did not say tithe the increase of ya gold & silver. Verse 23 says the tithe of ya corn, wine & oil, again no gold and silver. Verse 24 & 25 says if the way is too far & ya tithe is too heavy for you to carry, turn ya tithe to money so ya load will be light. Bidam if ya money is too heavy for you, do you turn money into money?

Pastor Kun:

And the fact that bidam deliberately left out verse 26 where God instructed in clear terms that the tither eats his tithe with his family whilst attempting to quote the scripture out of context is another evidence that bidam is a fraud. He knows the truth but his love for filthy lucre keeps him twisting scriptures for selfish gain.

Labelle:


Woahhhhh!!! I have been reading this thread for a while now and must admit that I have learnt so much about tithing from Nairaland.

I hardly make posts on this site, just breeze in to read topics of interest and breeze out although I have been a member since inception.

But today, I must admit that I am in utter shock....Anyone reading this today please take note.

All the while I have always wondered if people like Bidman where genuinely unsure/confused/unclear about the scriptures' postulations on tithing. but when i read the bible post he pasted above, conveniently omitting verse 26 of Deuteronomy 14, which was basically the core of the subject, I froze!!!

This basically means that Mr. Bidman very well knows this truth but is trying to out-smart Nigerians perhaps for monetary gains.

Woah. This further means that these people that come on here propagating tainted doctrines do not give a flipping coin about God, the Bible or consequence!!!. They are as hard hearted as daylight armed robbers.

Anyone who continues to join words with people like Bidman does so at his own peril.

Zikkyy:

This is exactly why most tithers have problem determining what their tithe should be, and this is why armed robbers and prostitute pay tithe; because they think like you.

God is not a God of confusion. every instruction to the Israelite was clearly stated so they understood the requirements of the Law. If any Jew want to know what was expected of them they go Leviticus 27 (for the nature/definition of the tithe), Numbers 18 to know the beneficiary of the first tithe and Deuteronomy to know the beneficiaries of the second tithe. other instances you find in the bible has to do with tithing practices (actions) by men which cannot be interpreted as God's definition of tithe. even if some people decides to interpret the law to suit their needs, their action does not constitute a modification of the written law. My brother you will find the tithe instructions only in Leviticus for definition, Numbers and Deuteronomy for beneficiary and mode of implementation.

you are not in a position to define Jesus.

Bidam, oil wine & corn comes from agricultural practices. I just hope you know you are embarrassing ya self

Zikkyy:

Makes no difference. God gave his alternatives.....

Tithing when you are not a farmer amounts to what we call 'over-sabi'. it does not change God's definition of his tithe. Maybe that's the reason armed robbers, prostitute are tithing these days. Based on you peeps understanding, tithing can be anything, sourced from anywhere and pastors are smiling to the bank

Zikkyy:

Nobody is saying the God is not the onwer of heaven and earth. What we are saying here is that God did not demand for a tithe of heaven and earth

[quote author=DrummaBoy]





[size=16pt]Yes in the immediate context God was referring to Samuel in that scripture[/size]

Samuel is better referred to as a Prophet and a judge in Israel, [size=16pt]and certainly not a priest:
[/size]

Now God is still calling men to ministry. In our time we have the very popular ones: Oyedepo, Adebgoye, Oyakhilome, etc; and tithes are being paid to them and their ministries. Are they Levites?[/i]

Zikkyy:

Bidam, God saying he will send corn, and wine, and oil does not change anything. corn wine and oil still obtained from agricultural activities, natural products from plants.

Zikkyy:

Merriam-webster: the science, art, or practice of cultivating the soil, producing crops, and raising livestock and in varying degrees the preparation and marketing of the resulting products.

Whether the thing fall from heaven or came out of the ground does not change anything. The fact that God sent quails does not change the fact that quails are birds. why is it so difficult for you to understand?

trustman:

Bidam, you said:
Under the law the person is estranged from God. CAN YOU BACK UP YOUR STATEMENT WITH SCRIPTURES?
Genesis 17:14 - "Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”
Exodus 12:48 - “A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it."

Also that:
[b]The Abrahamic covenant is foundational to all of Scripture. It is the key to both the Old and New Testaments and is foundational to the whole program of redemption. All subsequent revelation is the outworking of this covenant. This
covenant, and the subsequent covenant framework, is the key to understanding Scripture.

Hebrews 7 - "This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

4 Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though they also are descended from Abraham. 6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 And without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater. 8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
Here you see Melchizedek considered greater than Abraham and then to prove the point that Christ's priesthood and the New Covenant he instituted is greater than anything before it, whether Abraham, the Levitical priesthood or the law.

Although DrummaBoy had made this remark about you before now, the question is - How do you take a simple statement as 'The law is ... ...' and then turn into 'The law here refers to ceremonial laws'? How do decide where law refers to ceremonial law and when it refers to the whole law and so on and so forth? If you claim to hold on to all scripture then you cannot pick and choose what you like and you seem to be doing this quite a lot!

trustman:

Where in the following does the word LAW refer to ceremonial law or otherwise?
Galatians 3 -

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”

Labelle:


Woahhhhh!!! I have been reading this thread for a while now and must admit that I have learnt so much about tithing from Nairaland.

I hardly make posts on this site, just breeze in to read topics of interest and breeze out although I have been a member since inception.

But today, I must admit that I am in utter shock....Anyone reading this today please take note.

All the while I have always wondered if people like Bidman where genuinely unsure/confused/unclear about the scriptures' postulations on tithing. but when i read the bible post he pasted above, conveniently omitting verse 26 of Deuteronomy 14, which was basically the core of the subject, I froze!!!

This basically means that Mr. Bidman very well knows this truth but is trying to out-smart Nigerians perhaps for monetary gains.

Woah. This further means that these people that come on here propagating tainted doctrines do not give a flipping coin about God, the Bible or consequence!!!. [size=16pt]They are as hard hearted as daylight armed robbers.
[/size]
Anyone who continues to join words with people like Bidman does so at his own peril.

[quote author=Zikkyy]

verse 22 says tithe the increase of ya seed that the field bring forth. Did you read that? God did not say tithe the increase of ya gold & silver.

Verse 23 says the tithe of ya corn, wine & oil, again no gold and silver.

Verse 24 & 25 says if the way is too far & ya tithe is too heavy for you to carry, turn ya tithe to money so ya load will be light. Bidam if ya money is too heavy for you, do you turn money into money?

Pastor Kun:

And the fact that bidam deliberately left out verse 26 where God instructed in clear terms that the tither eats his tithe with his family whilst attempting to quote the scripture out of context is another evidence that bidam is a fraud. He knows the truth but his love for filthy lucre keeps him twisting scriptures for selfish gain.

Bidam: And i never told you i practiced the mosaic tithing anyway so why not stick to the issue of argument,rather than throwing false accusations and childish tantrums.

trustman: Bidam,
It is obvious you're mixed-up in your understanding of the Bible.
You also deliberately decide to ignore issues and comments that clearly debunk your stand on tithing.

anukulapo:

Bidam, You have been webbed into the mosaic law argument as regards the discussions obviously.
If your tithing position is not in the mosaic "law",I advice you stop responding to comments about mosaic tithe (agric produce, farm produce, eat your tithe..., give the levites...sell them and bring the money to jerusalem...and the related points).

**Gosh is against tithe as a "law" and the threat of malachi curses.**

**Zikky is indifferent about tithe saying "the money is yours,do what you want with it; EVEN IF YOU CHOOSE TO TITHE (emphasis is mine)**
...And others,have similar opinion but that it is not a "law" or "requirement"

So they seem not to be against tithing (except they reaffirm their stand again if I'm mistaking)

trustman: Bidam,
It is obvious you're mixed-up in your understanding of the Bible.
You also deliberately decide to ignore issues and comments that clearly debunk your stand on tithing.

What Christ instituted after his work on earth was done far superceeds ANYTHING that was before it, whether it was what was in operation up to and including the time of Abraham or what the law and the prophets presented. By ANYTHING i mean any system for living the spiritual life or relating with God WHETHER rituals or any other form of observances such as tithing. Therefore, NO MAN TODAY HAS THE RIGHT TO INSIST on TITHING under the grace and truth that Jesus Christ brought - For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ(John 1:17).

The insistence on tithing today turns Christians away from living their true spiritual lives. Rather than focusing on what Christ has done it makes them focus on their WORKS such as TITHING as a means of gaining God's approval or blessings. In Christ we have been blessed with every blessing we can think of - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ"(Ephesians.1: 3). We cannot merit any blessing from God on the basis of what we do including TITHING.

The ONLY thing that satisfied God was Jesus' work. Our expression of gratitude to God for what he did for us in Christ is what should DRIVE our spiritual lives, not seeking to present a scorecard of our works before God. That expression of gratitude can come in any form including GIVING. But giving must not be forced from any Christian whether covertly or overtly. It must be the INDIVIDUAL CHOICE of the believer. This point Apostle Peter made clear in the issue of Ananias And Sapphira - "Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” (Acts 5:4). This understanding is what pervaded their thinking that we find NO SINGLE directive on tithing in the new testament epistles; GIVING, yes, but not any insistence on giving ANY FIXED PERCENTAGE OR AMOUNT.

The plain truth is that all that is truly critical or important for the Christian way of life has been given to us in the writings of these apostles. On the other hand anything not given to us by these men but propagated today as critical to the Christian’s spiritual life is man-made and will be wood, hay and stubble at the evaluation throne of Christ.