[quote author=trustman]Bidam,
It is obvious you're mixed-up in your understanding of the Bible.
You also deliberately decide to ignore issues and comments that clearly debunk your stand on tithing.

Definitely you are the guy confused here, you opened an irresponsible thread to fight God's tithe. You quote scripture to justify antinomianism and you expect me to be mute? NO pal.

What Christ instituted after his work on earth was done far superceeds ANYTHING that was before it, whether it was what was in operation up to and including the time of Abraham or what the law and the prophets presented. By ANYTHING i mean any system for living the spiritual life or relating with God WHETHER rituals or any other form of observances such as tithing. Therefore, NO MAN TODAY HAS THE RIGHT TO INSIST on TITHING under the grace and truth that Jesus Christ brought - For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ(John 1:17).

Let me tell you a painful statement you will not like to hear. If you like you can say it is heresy. THE OT IS FILLED WITH CHRIST, THE NT IS ALSO FILLED WITH CHRIST.CHRIST DID NOT BRING ANYTHING NEW.PAUL NEVER SAID ANYTHING NEW.

The insistence on tithing today turns Christians away from living their true spiritual lives. Rather than focusing on what Christ has done it makes them focus on their WORKS such as TITHING as a means of gaining God's approval or blessings. In Christ we have been blessed with every blessing we can think of - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ"(Ephesians.1: 3). We cannot merit any blessing from God on the basis of what we do including TITHING.

YOU CAN CHECK ALL MY TOPICS. i don't talking about these things. YOU ARE THE Irresponsible folk here condemning giving of 10% to the church.Giving should even be the least of what we should be talking about here, but no you had to quote scripture out of context to insult christian who tithe, you HAVE YOUR REWARD ALREADY.

The ONLY thing that satisfied God was Jesus' work. Our expression of gratitude to God for what he did for us in Christ is what should DRIVE our spiritual lives, not seeking to present a scorecard of our works before God. That expression of gratitude can come in any form including GIVING. But giving must not be forced from any Christian whether covertly or overtly. It must be the INDIVIDUAL CHOICE of the believer. This point Apostle Peter made clear in the issue of Ananias And Sapphira - "Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” (Acts 5:4). This understanding is what pervaded their thinking that we find NO SINGLE directive on tithing in the new testament epistles; GIVING, yes, but not any insistence on giving ANY FIXED PERCENTAGE OR AMOUNT.

Tithing is biblical,sorry you cannot do anything about it. When you get to heaven if atall you make it sef you can ask Jesus.

The plain truth is that all that is truly critical or important for the Christian way of life has been given to us in the writings of these apostles. On the other hand anything not given to us by these men but propagated today as critical to the Christian’s spiritual life is man-made and will be wood, hay and stubble at the evaluation throne of Christ.

Yawns...imaginations and opinions again..maybe if tithing is scraped from the bible you have a case..as of now you do not have any..You are walking on straws.

Bidam: You are actually wrong.Theses folks are against everything called tithes,whether it is mosaic or not as far as na tithes,dem go fight am.

@ Bidam: For your record. Read these quotes and see what you can make of it. Cheers.

Zikkyy:

why request that i provide scripture that says "do not pay tithe" when i don't belong to that group that says people should not tithe.

So please do you have scriptures that supports the saying "the priesthood of Jesus receives tithe"?

Zikkyy:

am indifferent. Its your money.

am only against the teaching (based on mosaic law).

Goshen360: ^ You seems not to understand this thing we have been saying yet. Yes, the Abraham example predates the law but the Abraham example is not a law for Christians. Preachers make it a law for Christians by citing Abraham example and\but backing it with Malachi curse while they also lift law tithing scripture to support Abraham tithing.

If you're a truly gonna use Abraham example of tithing as a pre-law tithing, nothing should be drawn from the law tithing and no curses should be added, it should be a free-will thing because Abraham was not threatened with devourer and curses for him to do that, it was a freewill not a law because the law of tithing doesn't exist then.

anukulapo:

@ Bidam: For your record. Read these quotes and see what you can make of it. Cheers.

This is the kind of statement by the op i am saying that is unchristian to start with, who made him a judge over peeps who tithe?

trustman:

Some will claim ‘tithing by faith’ which perhaps means they say they choose to tithe like Abraham and so are not doing it under the law since Abraham did it pre-law. [size=16pt]If it is to massage their consciences that they do this[/size], fine. But they still need to show if God commanded or instructed them, as Christians, to do it that way.


So if you tithe, you are obligated to keep the whole law. That is what the Bible says. Maybe you can now begin to see the seriousness of this matter!

As for the other ones they are rather dishonest, they still attack Christians who tithe by Faith, they say there is nothing like that.

@Bidam
Okay,...for the people I quoted,if those words don't really represent their stands,then it is rather unfortunate.
You might not be able to do much to change their belief.

Bidam: This is the kind of statement by the op i am saying that is unchristian to start with, who made him a judge over peeps who tithe?

As for the other ones they are rather dishonest, they still attack Christians who tithe by Faith, they say there is nothing like that.

To restate my position:
Some will claim ‘tithing by faith’ which perhaps means they say they choose to tithe like Abraham and so are not doing it under the law since Abraham did it pre-law. If it is to massage their consciences that they do this, fine. But they still need to show if God commanded or instructed them, as Christians, to do it that way.

Is the Christian the same as the Jew? Did the Apostles fail to give us all the information we needed in the New Testament epistles by not mentioning TITHING as being required of the Christian even once?

See what the book of Hebrews says:
Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways. 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things. 3 The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God’s nature, and he holds everything together by his powerful command. The Son made people clean from their sins. Then he sat down at the right side of God, the Great One in heaven. 4 The Son became much greater than the angels, and God gave him a name that is much greater than any of their names.
Hebrews 8:6
But the work that has been given to Jesus is much greater than the work that was given to those priests. In the same way, the new agreement [/b]that Jesus brought from God to his people is much greater than the old one. And the new agreement is based on better promises. 7 If there was nothing wrong with the [b]first agreement, then there would be no need for a second agreement.
13 God called this a new agreement, so he has made the first agreement old. And anything that is old and useless is ready to disappear.
Hebrews 9:1
The first agreement had rules for worship and a place for worship here on earth.
10 These gifts and sacrifices are only about food and drink and special washings. They are only rules about the body. God gave them for his people to follow until the time of his new way.
Hebrews 10
The law gave us only an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future. The law is not a perfect picture of the real things.

After all the above you still think the Old and the New are the same? And that ‘CHRIST DID NOT BRING ANYTHING NEW.PAUL NEVER SAID ANYTHING NEW.’ ?
Think again, Bidam!

anukulapo: @Bidam
Okay,...for the people I quoted,if those words don't really represent their stands,then it is rather unfortunate.
You might not be able to do much to change their belief.

I am not trying to bro.They have made up their minds since 2006 when some of them started posting on nairaland.My stand is to speak against the false gospel they propagate.

trustman:
To restate my position:
Some will claim ‘tithing by faith’ which perhaps means they say they choose to tithe like Abraham and so are not doing it under the law since Abraham did it pre-law. If it is to massage their consciences that they do this, fine. But they still need to show if God commanded or instructed them, as Christians, to do it that way.

Is the Christian the same as the Jew? Did the Apostles fail to give us all the information we needed in the New Testament epistles by not mentioning TITHING as being required of the Christian even once?

@ the bolded, Just like shdemidemi, you are the one creating this division and demarcation but unlike him, you and the others do not have the guts to say Paul was preaching to the gentiles a different gospel from the one Peter and James were speaking to the Jews.

Weymouth New Testament
In Him the distinctions between Jew and Gentile, slave and free man, male and female, disappear; you are all one in Christ Jesus.Galatians 3:28[i][/i]

Jesus is the Melchizedek of OLD and He did receive tithes. Do you know you are actually teaching heresy when you say the OT was written for the Jews only?

Romans 3:29
Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,


1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts


What do you think God's commands are? They are the weightier and least matter Jesus was emphasizing on in Mathew 23:23. Tithing is a form of giving, because the Sanhedrin in those days bastardized it doesn't mean it is not scriptural,atleast you can attest to this in scripture when Jesus came and cleared the temple they were using for baazar. They even had TWO HIGH PRIESTS, Have you ever heard of such a thing in Israel? Hear Jesus(God in human flesh) reinstating what God told Moses long ago.. It is God that prompts the hearts of men to give so it is not out of place to say God made Abraham to give which sets the foundation of what we call tithes today.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Hear Paul telling the gentiles,it is still the same Christ ( 1 COR 10) that Jews experienced during Moses generation NOT TWO DIFFERENT CHRISTS.

Let me emphasize a scripture below that so many of you are failing to see,including drumma who set up a ridiculous debate to ridicule himself thinking he is ridiculing God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
So he is our peace. In his body he has made Jewish and non-Jewish people one by breaking down the wall of hostility that kept them apart.

Ephesians 2:14.

See what the book of Hebrews says:
Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways. 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things. 3 The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God’s nature, and he holds everything together by his powerful command. The Son made people clean from their sins. Then he sat down at the right side of God, the Great One in heaven. 4 The Son became much greater than the angels, and God gave him a name that is much greater than any of their names.
Hebrews 8:6
But the work that has been given to Jesus is much greater than the work that was given to those priests. In the same way, the new agreement [/b]that Jesus brought from God to his people is much greater than the old one. And the new agreement is based on better promises. 7 If there was nothing wrong with the [b]first agreement, then there would be no need for a second agreement.
13 God called this a new agreement, so he has made the first agreement old. And anything that is old and useless is ready to disappear.
Hebrews 9:1
The first agreement had rules for worship and a place for worship here on earth.
10 These gifts and sacrifices are only about food and drink and special washings. They are only rules about the body. God gave them for his people to follow until the time of his new way.
Hebrews 10
The law gave us only an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future. The law is not a perfect picture of the real things.

After all the above you still think the Old and the New are the same? And that ‘CHRIST DID NOT BRING ANYTHING NEW.PAUL NEVER SAID ANYTHING NEW.’ ?
Think again, Bidam!

You also should think AGAIN? What did Paul said that was new? Did Jesus not appear in the OT? Was Christ not the WORD OF GOD from the very beginning. Do you realize that when Adam disobeyed God.God killed an animal and made a skin garments with drops of blood to cover their sins? Do you know that was a shadow of what is to come? Do you realize that Abraham obedience to sacrifice Isaac was a shadow of what is to come? Do you realize the passover lamb, God instructs Moses to sacrifice was a shadow of what is to come? Do you realize that God is not interested in sacrifices but obedience? He told king Saul that. Do you realize that Jesus ultimate sacrifice has given us the understanding that we could offer our bodies as living sacrifices unto the Lord?

So Paul never said anything new, The Jews were blind and deaf so they couldn't see and hear what God is saying from the very beginning. He sent His prophets, they killed the prophets.. He decided to send His,SON, they knew He was the Son of God because He said so Himself, yet they Killed Him, All this was done to fulfill the Law and the prophets.

If you tithe, you are not tithing to men, But to God. Infact in the NT God requires we mature and grow from givings of 10%. If tithing applies ONLY to the Jews only Paul wouldn't have quoted a Jewish law to emphasize on it..Hear him for the umpteenth time.

"Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges?" he asks. "Or who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit therof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?" (1 Cor.9:7).


Then he continues by pointing back to the Old Testament and showing how the Priests and the Levites who ministered to the people at the Temple were supported by the people. Here he was referring to the law of the tithe of the Levitical system. Then applying this same tithe principle, he states in 1 Corinthians 9:14, "Even so [size=16pt](with the same system and principle)[/size] hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel."

Bidam: Maybe you did not get the import of those things i posted. Let me repeat them again for emphasis.
Notice. God says, “For all the earth is Mine” (Ex. 19:5) and “Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord’s your God, the earth also, with all that therein is” (Deut. 10:14) and also “whatsoever is under the whole heaven is Mine” (Job 41:11). King David wrote, “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein” (Psa. 24:1). I Corinthians 10:26 repeats his words.

God also says, “For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills...If I were hungry, I would not tell you: for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof” (Psa. 50:10, 12). Finally, the prophet Haggai wrote, “The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine, says the Lord” (Hag. 2:8 ).

We are just custodians of the things on earth, so if He demands a tenth of the land,it is His.

You see ya self? see what ya bible reference says....."If I were hungry, I would not tell you: for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof”

Anyways God did not ask for a tithe of heaven, he did not ask for a tithe of every beast of the forest, he did not ask for a tithe of the cattle upon a thousand hills and he did not ask for a tithe of God and silver.

This was God's request......"A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord" you see that? whether grain from the soil or fruit from the tree. he did not say a tithe of crude oil........."Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord."....God says tithe of herd & flock, the tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod. "shepherd" means he is not expecting you to tithe bushmeat, so if you be hunter forget about tithing.

If you have difficulty understanding the above, you can continue to embarrass ya self

You just like to embarass ya self sha.

Bidam:..

Bidam:
here is a scripture to ponder on.

"Yea, The Lord will answer and say unto His people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen: But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things. Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for The Lord will do great things." (Joel 2:19-21 KJV)

So because corn, wine and oil is found here should we use your definition and say they are agric produce shey? Do you see your folly in giving scriptures, your own private interpretations? someone might see this scripture and also tell you they do fall from the sky. Is it not God that sends them according to that passage?

Zikkyy...

Zikkyy:

Bidam, God saying he will send corn, and wine, and oil does not change anything. corn wine and oil still obtained from agricultural activities, natural products from plants.

Whether the thing fall from heaven or came out of the ground does not change anything.

Bidam....

Bidam:
But it changes everything oooo.. This is your definition of agric.

"Merriam-webster: the science, art, or practice of cultivating the soil, producing crops, and raising livestock and in varying degrees the preparation and marketing of the resulting products."

So are you telling us here that there is SOIL in the sky

This agric produce that was suppose to grow in soil actually changes everything,

Bidam, i still don't understand what you looking for in the sky. if God told his people he will "send corn, and wine, and oil".. and you assume the corn, wine and oil will fall from the sky abi? you should have taken some time to read verses 22-26 of the (Joel) bible reference you quoted...

"Do not be afraid, you wild animals, for the pastures in the wilderness are becoming green. The trees are bearing their fruit; the fig tree and the vine yield their riches. Be glad, people of Zion, rejoice in the Lord your God, for he has given you the autumn rains because he is faithful. He sends you abundant showers, both autumn and spring rains, as before. The threshing floors will be filled with grain; the vats will overflow with new wine and oil. “I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten— the great locust and the young locust, the other locusts and the locust swarm[b]— my great army that I sent among you. You will have plenty to eat, until you are full, and you will praise the name of the Lord your God, who has worked wonders for you"

When God says he was going to send corn, and wine, and oil, he was going to send rain and also send the locust packing. Mr. Bidam corn, wine and oil and products of agric activities.

You can continue to embarass ya self sha. no wahala

Bidam:
And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry it; or if the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD your God has blessed you:
25 Then shall you turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and shall go to the place which the LORD your God shall choose:
The purpose and principle behind the tithes is the bolded which again you deliberately omitted.

Lol!

anukulapo:
Bidam, You have been webbed into the mosaic law argument as regards the discussions obviously.
If your tithing position is not in the mosaic "law",I advice you stop responding to comments about mosaic tithe (agric produce, farm produce, eat your tithe..., give the levites...sell them and bring the money to jerusalem...and the related points).

This will be difficult as Bidam is tithing according to Moses. Bidam is empty without the mosaic law.

Bidam: T
As for the other ones they are rather dishonest, they still attack Christians who tithe by Faith, they say there is nothing like that.

am yet to meet the tither that gives 10% by faith.

faith in what BTW? that you go 'hammer' after giving ya pastor 10% of ya loot?

Bidam:
Jesus is the Melchizedek of OLD and He did receive tithes.

Bidam Bidam..na wa o! are you saying Jesus and Melchi are one and same so Jesus been around before? and for the purpose of collecting tithe?

Bidam:
Tithing is a form of giving......

..and i was thinking tithing is a form of payment.

trustman:
But they still need to show if God commanded or instructed them, as Christians, to do it that way.

Which command you dey wait for?
Were we commanded or instructed by our Lord or the disciples to worship on sunday instead of saturday?

Bidam: @ the bolded, Just like shdemidemi, you are the one creating this division and demarcation but unlike him, you and the others do not have the guts to say Paul was preaching to the gentiles a different gospel from the one Peter and James were speaking to the Jews.

Mr bidam, Paul's message was primarily for Gentiles just as the Old Testament was primarily for Jews. There was certainly a message Paul carried, a message he says was hidden in the past. A message he called his, a message he refused to adulterate hence he confronted Peter, James and the rest who seem to be reputed in Jerusalem.

The Jew and the gentile did not become one through the law or anything else but through faith in Christ (minus works of the law). A Christian who believes in works, that is what they can do through the law or through morals to achieve God were said to be children of the flesh.those who trust and believe God through Christ without works were said to be children of the Spirit. Where do you belong?

Jesus, Peter, James, John never told us how to be saved. This mystery was revealed to only Paul through Christ.

What people do you think Paul referred to as false teachers and children of the flesh in the book of Galatians. Mull over these things and stop the gross disservice and constant mockery of the gospel of Christ all in the name of ignorance and religion.

anukulapo:
Which command you dey wait for?
Were we commanded or instructed by our Lord or the disciples to worship on sunday instead of saturday?

I believe he asked a valid question. Meanwhile, na only Sunday you dey worship ni?

Zikkyy:

so Jesus been around before? and for the purpose of collecting tithe?

And if He came to collect tithe among other things (Melchizedeck did during his interaction with Abraham), would you sue him or accuse him?

Do you also think he didn't die for our sins but to show us how to live a life of love?

shdemidemi:

I believe he asked a valid question. Meanwhile, na only Sunday you dey worship ni?

I'm sure you know what I am talking about so you can go ahead and answer the question if you want to.

Did the people (under the mosaic law) worship God only on sabbath (Saturday) day?

anukulapo:

I'm sure you know what I am talking about so you can go ahead and answer the question if you want to.?

I am not in your mind, won't like to assume else I cld be wrong. The question was not directed to me, I will leave it for who it was directed.

anukulapo:
Did the people (under the mosaic law) worship God only on sabbath (Saturday) day?

Now, you seem to get the drift. Anywhere the Spirit of The Lord is there is liberty. No one made it a law for Christians to meet on Sunday, if Thursday is alright by the church, they can as well gather on Thursday. All in all, your comparison between a fact that God never instructed us(Christians) to tithe and why we chose to come together on Sunday even though we were not instructed to do so by God holds no water.

shdemidemi:


I am not in your mind, won't like to assume else I cld be wrong. The question was not directed to me, I will leave it for who it was directed.

Well,I am disappointed that you couldn't see clearly yet I am not surprised. Anyways,it's okay. Just leave it to be answered by the person addressed to. Thanks.

shdemidemi:

Now, you seem to get the drift. Anywhere the Spirit of The Lord is there is liberty. No one made it a law for Christians to meet on Sunday, if Thursday is alright by the church, they can as well gather on Thursday. All in all, your comparison between a fact that God never instructed us(Christians) to tithe and why we chose to come together on Sunday even though we were not instructed to do so by God holds no water.

I can't help you out here. Your point lines behind mine (never mind if you still don't understand)

Zikkyy:

You see ya self? see what ya bible reference says....."If I were hungry, I would not tell you: for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof”

Anyways God did not ask for a tithe of heaven, he did not ask for a tithe of every beast of the forest, he did not ask for a tithe of the cattle upon a thousand hills and he did not ask for a tithe of God and silver.

Neither did my statement say God asked for a tithe of heaven or beast in the forest. You yourself already quoted that God asked for a tenth of EVERYTHING ON LAND.

This was God's request......"A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord" you see that? whether grain from the soil or fruit from the tree. he did not say a tithe of crude oil........."Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord."....God says tithe of herd & flock, the tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod. "shepherd" means he is not expecting you to tithe bushmeat, so if you be hunter forget about tithing.

You can say agric produce to suit your ego as a product of land, yet you can't say gold,silver,crude oil are God's tithe gotten from land abi? Or do you honestly think it is grain,fruit,wine,oil that are the ONLY agric produce cultivated from land? The scripture says EVERYTHING ON LAND so the tenth of everything on land belongs to the Lord. whether qualifies the alternative the people had at that point in time.

If you have difficulty understanding the above, you can continue to embarrass ya self

My brother, you are the one embarrassing yourself with English comprehension here..not me.

Zikkyy: You just like to embarass ya self sha.

Bidam:..



Zikkyy...



Bidam....



Bidam, i still don't understand what you looking for in the sky. if God told his people he will "send corn, and wine, and oil".. and you assume the corn, wine and oil will fall from the sky abi? you should have taken some time to read verses 22-26 of the (Joel) bible reference you quoted...

"Do not be afraid, you wild animals, for the pastures in the wilderness are becoming green. The trees are bearing their fruit; the fig tree and the vine yield their riches. Be glad, people of Zion, rejoice in the Lord your God, for he has given you the autumn rains because he is faithful. He sends you abundant showers, both autumn and spring rains, as before. The threshing floors will be filled with grain; the vats will overflow with new wine and oil. “I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten— the great locust and the young locust, the other locusts and the locust swarm[b]— my great army that I sent among you. You will have plenty to eat, until you are full, and you will praise the name of the Lord your God, who has worked wonders for you"

When God says he was going to send corn, and wine, and oil, he was going to send rain and also send the locust packing. Mr. Bidam corn, wine and oil and products of agric activities.

You can continue to embarass ya self sha. no wahala

Oga.. you are embarrassing yourself too.. I already told you Lev 27 did not define tithes as agric produce..deal with it. If you like continue to embarass yourself the more by quoting my statements.

Zikkyy:

This will be difficult as Bidam is tithing according to Moses. Bidam is empty without the mosaic law.

So it has now gotten to the point that it is now tithe of Moses and not God's tithe.Continue to embarass yourself.

Zikkyy:

Bidam Bidam..na wa o! are you saying Jesus and Melchi are one and same so Jesus been around before? and for the purpose of collecting tithe?

I don't see why not, the only person that has no father and mother is God and Jesus is God remember?

..and i was thinking tithing is a form of payment.

whatever,Abraham gave tithes of ALL.

shdemidemi:


Mr bidam, Paul's message was primarily for Gentiles just as the Old Testament was primarily for Jews. There was certainly a message Paul carried, a message he says was hidden in the past. A message he called his, a message he refused to adulterate hence he confronted Peter, James and the rest who seem to be reputed in Jerusalem.

Mr..shdemidemi.. there is only one gospel not two and for your info Paul preached from the same OT to Jews and gentiles that Jesus is the Christ. And the confrontation with peter is not the issue why you should say it was two gospels..Don't magnify what is not even an issue... Ok?

The Jew and the gentile did not become one through the law or anything else but through faith in Christ (minus works of the law). A Christian who believes in works, that is what they can do through the law or through morals to achieve God were said to be children of the flesh.those who trust and believe God through Christ without works were said to be children of the Spirit. Where do you belong?

You keep confusing yourself here...What do you think work is? Jesus worked..peter worked.. Paul even worked more than all the Apostles..yet here you are, an ignorant gentile telling us it is faith minus work.Smh!

Jesus, Peter, James, John never told us how to be saved. This mystery was revealed to only Paul through Christ.

You are a dishonest liar here and you know it.When peter preached on Pentecost was it not a message of salvation? So we can even glean salvation messages from the book of John abi? so John 3:16 is not a salvation message? Even James preached salvation messages.So stop feeding us lies here. The mystery Paul was talking about is Jesus Christ who came and died for the sins of men, all the apostles of the lamb were witnesses to these events, Even Jesus told peter that flesh and blood did not reveal this mystery to him,so which other mystery are you talking about bro..?

What people do you think Paul referred to as false teachers and children of the flesh in the book of Galatians.

If you like twist Paul's letters to your destruction, it shows you are unlearned and unstable.Be careful with this two gospel heresy of yours..False teachers are hell bound.A word is enough for the wise.

Mull over these things and stop the gross disservice and constant mockery of the gospel of Christ all in the name of ignorance and religion.

But is it not funny that this is exactly what you are doing in this forum? making a mockery of redemption that we have two Christs and two gospels.SMH!

Bidam:

Infact in the NT God requires we mature and grow from givings of 10%.

Again you failed to respond to SIMPLE questions and issues.
Did God command the Christian to tithe? If so show me from the New Testament epistles.
Israel was a NATIONAL ENTITYWITH GEOGRAPHICAL BOUNDARIES – a real estate, if you like - and had a national and spiritual life based on the Mosaic Law.
Does the church age believer belong to A SINGLE NATIONAL ENTITY?

What this passage - Weymouth New Testament
In Him the distinctions between Jew and Gentile, slave and free man, male and female, disappear; you are all one in Christ Jesus.Galatians 3:28[i][/i] means is that ‘IN CHRIST’ EVERY RACIAL, CLASS/SOCIAL AND GENDER DISTINCTION is wiped off. A NEW spiritual SPECIES is now set in place; again showing that something NEW came in to replace the OLD. The implication of this has many ramifications. You may not be matured enough to grasp it yet. On the contrary it does not mean that what the Jew was required to do the Church age believer is still to do. I HAVE POINTED THIS OUT TO YOU IN SEVERAL PASSAGES.

The other one you also quoted: 1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts means that neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; in other words doing it or not is irrelevant but keeping God’s command which in CONTEXT of Galatians is clearly spelt out.

What commission was given to Paul by Jesus Christ when he called him into ministry? Go and check it out.

Lastly, Bidam, what is your understanding of these portions of the scripture which I quote again:
Preferably take them verse by verse.

Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways. 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things. 3 The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God’s nature, and he holds everything together by his powerful command. The Son made people clean from their sins. Then he sat down at the right side of God, the Great One in heaven. 4 The Son became much greater than the angels, and God gave him a name that is much greater than any of their names.
Hebrews 8:6
But the work that has been given to Jesus is much greater than the work that was given to those priests. In the same way, the new agreement [/b]that Jesus brought from God to his people is much greater than the old one. And the new agreement is based on better promises. 7 If there was nothing wrong with the [b]first agreement, then there would be no need for a second agreement.
13 God called this a new agreement, so he has made the first agreement old. And anything that is old and useless is ready to disappear.
Hebrews 9:1
The first agreement had rules for worship and a place for worship here on earth.
10 These gifts and sacrifices are only about food and drink and special washings. They are only rules about the body. God gave them for his people to follow until the time of his new way.
Hebrews 10
The law gave us only an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future. The law is not a perfect picture of the real things.

I would really like to have your expose' on them.

Bidam: Mr..shdemidemi.. there is only one gospel not two and for your info Paul preached from the same OT to Jews and gentiles that Jesus is the Christ. And the confrontation with peter is not the issue why you should say it was two gospels..Don't magnify what is not even an issue... Ok?!

You err bro, the core of Paul's gospel was not to tell the world who Jesus was but to share the news of what he achieved on the cross.

Paul did preach from the old testament, the foundation and bedrock of Paul's messages were books that were before the written law of Moses. When Paul encounter the jewish sect or converts who have lived all their lives based on the law of Moses, he makes comparisons to further drive home his point. He did not come to preach that which they had known through the law but he preached Jesus and the great love he displayed by dying for those who were his enemies.

seven weeks after the death and resurrection of Christ, Peter stepped up in Acts chapter 2 addressing the men of Israel saying-

36 “Therefore I clearly state to everyone in Israel that God has made this Jesus you crucified to be the Lord, the Messiah!”

The people felt bad for what they had done, Peter did not mention these mysteries that had unfolded right before their eyes. He was still preaching that gospel Jesus told them (the twelve) to preach during his earthly ministry. A gospel that had nothing to do with the cross but everything to do with who Jesus really is. He also preached repentance to them as a way of showing a degree of remorse for what they had done.

Acts 2:40 Then Peter preached a long sermon, telling about Jesus and strongly urging all his listeners to save themselves from the evils of their nation.

God raised Paul to go to the gentiles after a certain Stephen was killed. Paul did not go to gentiles with the same message, he went there to tell them how to be saved in Christ. He also yearned for the nation of Israel to also come into this Christ through the gospel he preached.

9 1-3 O Israel, my people! O my Jewish brothers! How I long for you to come to Christ. My heart is heavy within me, and I grieve bitterly day and night because of you. Christ knows and the Holy Spirit knows that it is no mere pretense when I say that I would be willing to be forever damned if that would save you.

Bidam:
You keep confusing yourself here...What do you think work is? Jesus worked..peter worked.. Paul even worked more than all the Apostles..yet here you are, an ignorant gentile telling us it is faith minus work.Smh!

You are missing what Works is, works are those religious sacrifices we observe in order to gain points from God. They are works of the law by which Apostle Paul says no man can be justified.

For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20)

For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law (Rom 3:28).

Yet we know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified (Gal 2:16).



Apostle Paul was faultless in the works of the law be it ceremonial, moral or judicial law of Moses until he was arrested by Jesus. It took Paul three years to renew his mind from all the works of the law he later realize was of no value in Christ.

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written, ‘Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them’ (Gal 3:10).

Bidam:
You are a dishonest liar here and you know it.When peter preached on Pentecost was it not a message of salvation?

Peter preached a message of repentance to the nation of Israel. If you think he spoke to gentiles about salvation , please show me where Peter did that.

Bidam:
So we can even glean salvation messages from the book of John abi?

We can as well glean salvation messages from Genesis, the issue here is if John told you how and what to do to be saved.

Bidam:
so John 3:16 is not a salvation message? Even James preached salvation messages.So stop feeding us lies here.

For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son[c] so that anyone who believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

What exactly do we need to believe to be saved bidam. Many believe the wrong things about this Jesus, some believe he is a prophet, some rightly believe he is the son of God, some believe he is God. The question is, what do we need to believe to be saved?

Are you sure James preached salvation messages and how you can be saved to you?

It is so unfortunate that most people and churches would rather pitch their tent at st. Peter like the Roman catholic, some are rooted in the old testament. We treat the major letters to the church with contempt, yet when we want to do our alter call we scuttle to Romans 10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Bidam:
The mystery Paul was talking about is Jesus Christ who came and died for the sins of men, all the apostles of the lamb were witnesses to these events, Even Jesus told peter that flesh and blood did not reveal this mystery to him,so which other mystery are you talking about bro..?

What was revealed to Peter was the person of Jesus. The name Simon means the one that hears, all Simon heard from God was who Jesus truly is. The mystery and significance of the death of Christ was revealed to one man. Paul guarded this message as the only way, his message was different. The rest of the disciples were taught many things by Jesus, some including Paul were taught the jewish tradition by the experts and masters of the law of Moses. But when it comes to this gospel of Jesus Christ to the gentiles, Paul said

Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Bidam: If you like twist Paul's letters to your destruction, it shows you are unlearned and unstable.Be careful with this two gospel heresy of yours..False teachers are hell bound.A word is enough for the wise. But is it not funny that this is exactly what you are doing in this forum? making a mockery of redemption that we have two Christs and two gospels.SMH !

Your lies are clear to all, I never said we have two Christ. All I am saying is that God has moved is tent from the nation of Israel to the church. There is definitely one gospel to the church yet God is not finished with the nation of Israel meaning their rejection is not final.

Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

A large chunk of these nation would not believe in Christ, they will still be expecting their own Messiah until the time of the gentiles/the church is fulfilled. They will go through the great tribulation as written in the book of Revelation where a remnant will be saved-

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

@trustman and shdemidemi.. You are all deviating from the topic of discuss which is tithe.. You can open an individual threads and invite me for the discuss..Thanks.

Bidam: @trustman and shdemidemi.. You are all deviating from the topic of discuss which is tithe.. You can open an individual threads and invite me for the discuss..Thanks.

You started deviating when you told a lie about me. I believe I have made myself clear here, no point opening a new thread. Thanks

shdemidemi:


You started deviating when you told a lie about me. I believe I have made myself clear here, no point opening a new thread. Thanks

Nope, you didn't..you rather dug more pit for yourself by your contradictions... Or do you want me to bring out the thread you mentioned two Christs and two gospels..

Bidam: Nope, you didn't..you rather dug more pit for yourself by your contradictions... Or do you want me to bring out the thread you mentioned two Christs and two gospels..

Please do, you remain a liar until you show me where I said there are two christs.

Bidam: @trustman and shdemidemi.. You are all deviating from the topic of discuss which is tithe.. You can open an individual threads and invite me for the discuss..Thanks.

You are either a clown or an individual divorced from reality.
Why did i make this above statement?
Did you really read my last post and still say i deviated from the topic of tithe?
Just look at the second line. What is it about? Politics?
The key issue is that the New Covenant we are in, proven by the passages referenced, has no place for a compulsory tithing thing.
Will you be your characteristic self and 'run' or will you really respond in all honesty?
Maybe just you'll carefully go through time i give it again below:
Again you failed to respond to SIMPLE questions and issues.
Did God command the Christian to tithe? If so show me from the New Testament epistles.
Israel was a NATIONAL ENTITY WITH GEOGRAPHICAL BOUNDARIES – a real estate, if you like - and had a national and spiritual life based on the Mosaic Law.
Does the church age believer belong to A SINGLE NATIONAL ENTITY?

What this passage - Weymouth New Testament
In Him the distinctions between Jew and Gentile, slave and free man, male and female, disappear; you are all one in Christ Jesus.Galatians 3:28[i][/i] means is that ‘IN CHRIST’ EVERY RACIAL, CLASS/SOCIAL AND GENDER DISTINCTION is wiped off. A NEW spiritual SPECIES is now set in place; again showing that something NEW came in to replace the OLD. The implication of this has many ramifications. You may not be matured enough to grasp it yet. On the contrary it does not mean that what the Jew was required to do the Church age believer is still to do. I HAVE POINTED THIS OUT TO YOU IN SEVERAL PASSAGES.

The other one you also quoted: 1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts means that neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; in other words doing it or not is irrelevant but keeping God’s command which in CONTEXT of Galatians is clearly spelt out.

What commission was given to Paul by Jesus Christ when he called him into ministry? Go and check it out.

Lastly, Bidam, what is your understanding of these portions of the scripture which I quote again:
Preferably take them verse by verse.

Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways. 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things. 3 The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God’s nature, and he holds everything together by his powerful command. The Son made people clean from their sins. Then he sat down at the right side of God, the Great One in heaven. 4 The Son became much greater than the angels, and God gave him a name that is much greater than any of their names.
Hebrews 8:6
But the work that has been given to Jesus is much greater than the work that was given to those priests. In the same way, the new agreement [/b]that Jesus brought from God to his people is much greater than the old one. And the new agreement is based on better promises. 7 If there was nothing wrong with the [b]first agreement, then there would be no need for a second agreement.
13 God called this a new agreement, so he has made the first agreement old. And anything that is old and useless is ready to disappear.
Hebrews 9:1
The first agreement had rules for worship and a place for worship here on earth.
10 These gifts and sacrifices are only about food and drink and special washings. They are only rules about the body. God gave them for his people to follow until the time of his new way.
Hebrews 10
The law gave us only an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future. The law is not a perfect picture of the real things.

I would really like to have your expose' on them.