Aegon:
Killing Joffery was worth it a thousand times. Holding myrcella hostage is also worth it. The Lannisters have destroyed themselves. They are totally set up for destruction, just a few more episodes, wait for it.

It wasnt the Martells though. It was the LF/ Tyrell alliance that had Joffrey killed.

Gbola5:

Are you talking about the show?

Aegon:
yes

No wonder...

I think it'll be better we stick to the books here, otherwise we'll just be having crazy arguments over the inconsistencies. Good example: In the show, Balon Greyjoy still rules the Iron Islands; but in the books he's been dead for over a year, a Kings Moot has already been conducted, and his pirate wanderlust son, Euron Crows-Eye Greyjoy, currently occupies the Seastone Chair. Mmm.

So... going by the books, LF has no business calling the northern lords' banners. First of all, NOBODY knows he has Sansa Stark; a fake Sansa has even been married off to Ramsay Bolton. Secondly, only the Warden of the North (or the King in the North) can call the northern banners, and LF is none of these.

As per Doran Martell's plans, yeah unfortunately for him nothing seems to be going right - Oberyn is dead, the Frog is dead too - but i don't think he was all about revenge. Dorne has pretty good assassins and he could have sent any number any time he wanted. He wants something more, he wants power, he wants a piece of the Iron Throne, and yes he wants payback for his enemies too. Which is why he's chasing an alliance with the last living Targaryen - who also happens to have 3 freaking dragons. He's hoping and believing that his enemies will be her enemies too. Sadly his best gamble got burnt to crispies by Rhaegal in Mereen in the last book.

kay9:




No wonder...

I think it'll be better we stick to the books here, otherwise we'll just be having crazy arguments over the inconsistencies. Good example: In the show, Balon Greyjoy still rules the Iron Islands; but in the books he's been dead for over a year, a Kings Moot has already been conducted, and his pirate wanderlust son, Euron Crows-Eye Greyjoy, currently occupies the Seastone Chair. Mmm.

So... going by the books, LF has no business calling the northern lords' banners. First of all, NOBODY knows he has Sansa Stark; a fake Sansa has even been married off to Ramsay Bolton. Secondly, only the Warden of the North (or the King in the North) can call the northern banners, and LF is none of these.

As per Doran Martell's plans, yeah unfortunately for him nothing seems to be going right - Oberyn is dead, the Frog is dead too - but i don't think he was all about revenge. Dorne has pretty good assassins and he could have sent any number any time he wanted. He wants something more, he wants power, he wants a piece of the Iron Throne, and yes he wants payback for his enemies too. Which is why he's chasing an alliance with the last living Targaryen - who also happens to have 3 freaking dragons. He's hoping and believing that his enemies will be her enemies too. Sadly his best gamble got burnt to crispies by Rhaegal in Mereen in the last book.

Talk about being wrong about most things.

In my books Euron is his brother. And we were talking about the Vale Lords. And its a fake Arya Stark. Doran knows the condition of Dorne, he knows that Dorne alone cant defy the Iron Throne, militarily speaking, that's why he's been bidding his time. He's been plotting the destruction of House Lannister since what happened to Elia and her children. And sure a throne would be nice, what he really wants from Dany is her dragons and the power she'll wield not Dany herself. Like Quent said, the road leads through her not to her.

^^^ Right on all counts! ... except I never implied Doran wanted to marry Daenerys himself. But that's why its a discussion - I misquote something, you correct me, and everybody is happy.

But my "misquotes" no bad as "white walker pacifists" and "ice magic" sha..

kay9:
^^^ Right on all counts! ... except I never implied Doran wanted to marry Daenerys himself. But that's why its a discussion - I misquote something, you correct me, and everybody is happy.

But my "misquotes" no bad as "white walker pacifists" and "ice magic" sha..

Yes...GRRM said we have been mistaking the white walkers. That they're back for a reason. I just said pacifist because that was what i thought. As for the ice magic, its a theory.

Would GGRM ever complete WoW and give us closure?
Questions for the gods if there ever was one.

Gbola5:


It wasnt the Martells though. It was the LF/ Tyrell alliance that had Joffrey killed.

please let me understand, What is LF? second the poison that took Joffery was from dorne. They had it well planned, The tyrells just delivered it.

kay9:




No wonder...

I think it'll be better we stick to the books here, otherwise we'll just be having crazy arguments over the inconsistencies. Good example: In the show, Balon Greyjoy still rules the Iron Islands; but in the books he's been dead for over a year, a Kings Moot has already been conducted, and his pirate wanderlust son, Euron Crows-Eye Greyjoy, currently occupies the Seastone Chair. Mmm.

So... going by the books, LF has no business calling the northern lords' banners. First of all, NOBODY knows he has Sansa Stark; a fake Sansa has even been married off to Ramsay Bolton. Secondly, only the Warden of the North (or the King in the North) can call the northern banners, and LF is none of these.

As per Doran Martell's plans, yeah unfortunately for him nothing seems to be going right - Oberyn is dead, the Frog is dead too - but i don't think he was all about revenge. Dorne has pretty good assassins and he could have sent any number any time he wanted. He wants something more, he wants power, he wants a piece of the Iron Throne, and yes he wants payback for his enemies too. Which is why he's chasing an alliance with the last living Targaryen - who also happens to have 3 freaking dragons. He's hoping and believing that his enemies will be her enemies too. Sadly his best gamble got burnt to crispies by Rhaegal in Mereen in the last book.

The mountain didn't kill all of Rhaegars Children, The babe whose head was smashed and laid at the feet of Robert by the Lannisters was exchanged by Varys at the last minute. That boy has grown under Lord Connigton and has taken Dragonstone, He is the one Prince Doran has been waiting for. Plus the wedding in the north didn't happen, even with the fake Stark girl. Theon and some servants still loyal ferried her away and during the chase met his sister Asha. Theon still has some sense left. Finally Euron Crows eye is a brother not a son of Balon. The show makes me sick.

Aegon:
The mountain didn't kill all of Rhaegars Children, The babe whose head was smashed and laid at the feet of Robert by the Lannisters was exchanged by Varys at the last minute. That boy has grown under Lord Connigton and has taken Dragonstone, He is the one Prince Doran has been waiting for. Plus the wedding in the north didn't happen, even with the fake Stark girl. Theon and some servants still loyal ferried her away and during the chase met his sister Asha. Theon still has some sense left. Finally Euron Crows eye is a brother not a son of Balon. The show makes me sick.

Aegon:
please let me understand, What is LF? second the poison that took Joffery was from dorne. They had it well planned, The tyrells just delivered it.

LF = Littlefinger.

Aegon:
The mountain didn't kill all of Rhaegars Children, The babe whose head was smashed and laid at the feet of Robert by the Lannisters was exchanged by Varys at the last minute. That boy has grown under Lord Connigton and has taken Dragonstone, He is the one Prince Doran has been waiting for. Plus the wedding in the north didn't happen, even with the fake Stark girl. Theon and some servants still loyal ferried her away and during the chase met his sister Asha. Theon still has some sense left. Finally Euron Crows eye is a brother not a son of Balon. The show makes me sick.

Aegon could be a fake for all we know. There are many hints in AFFC where you pick up things about him being a fake, a Blackfyre, and it makes sense. He didnt take Dragonstone, Loras and Aurane Waters did. He and the Golden company just took 4( Griffins Roost, Crow's Nest, Estermont and another) castles at Cape Wrath and were planning an assault on Storm's End, which i think will cost them. And Doran didnt know about Aegon, noone except the crew on the Shy Maid and Illyrio and Varys knew about him, everyone else knew him as Young Griff, Tyrion just figured it out. To prove that Doran didnt know, he sends Arianne and Lady Lance to treat with him and see for herself after they recieve a raven about him being alive in the Excerpt TWOW chapters. It was Dany he was waiting for. And the wedding did happen, Theon gave the bride away and it was consumated, although she's fake, and some of the Lords know she's fake( Grand Northern Conspiracy). Yeah Theon spirited her away with the help of Abel and his washerwomen(who are actually Mance Rayder and some spearwives, ABEL is a play on words for BAEL the Bard a wildling- who loved a Stark girl and spitited her away).

Aegon:
please let me understand, What is LF? second the poison that took Joffery was from dorne. They had it well planned, The tyrells just delivered it.

Little Finger. The poison wasnt from Dorne. The poison is called The Strangler from a plant in the Jade Sea, near the Dothraki sea. The Tyrells made an alliance with LF, they want Margaery as queen and someone of Tyrell blood on the throne, they wanted her to be queen but not Joffrey as king, so they killed him and now Tommen is king. And it all works for LF because he thrives in chaos. The one Oberyn used is manticore venom on the Mountain. He also poisoned Tywin if the theory was true.

^^^ Poisoned Tywin how?? Because Tyrion met him in the loo? That's stretching it, please.

kay9:
^^^ Poisoned Tywin how?? Because Tyrion met him in the loo? That's stretching it, please.

It's a theory. But it makes sense his body had a very offensive smell. He was still rotting, after they removed his organs.

Aegon:
Given the present circumstances Dorne is only second to high garden in strength. The iron throne is already neck deep in debt to the bank of braavos, how will they fund the war? Who will negotiate the loans? Tyrrell? Hell no. After using the fanatics to arrest his heir? Hell no. Remember the Dornish are waiting for just such a time when they will pay back the Lannisters for the death of Elia and her children, that's why they first killed Joffery on his wedding. If the iron throne calls their banners who will respond? The north won't march under the Bolton's everyone hates them for killing Rob stark and having a devil of a son in Ramsay, In the river lands the tullys won't march, Lannisters killed their daughter through the freys, In the storm lands Stannis is at the wall, in the reach Highgardern won't move because loras Tyrrell is in chains, on the iron islands Balon Grey joy is mourning his son who's in captivity thanks to The iron throne, in the vale, Baelish can't call the banners after for the iron throne after what happened to Jon arryn, And remember, Winter is coming. The iron throne is currently a toothless bulldog.

We've to decide upon which version we follow on this thread. My points below are based on the book series and the new released chapters.
OLeanna killed jofferey I don't think their is any dornish plot there
The way I see it the war of the five kings is over.
If the letter that Ramsay sent to the wall is true that means Stannis has been captured.
Jamie mission in book 5 was to break the riverrun siege which he did and that region is now ruled by a frey married to a lannister allies of the throne.
The only tully of note is the blackfish and his on the run, with no army
Balon is dead in the book and piracy is all the iron islands are know for.
The tyrell still have everything to gain by backing the lannisters last I checked their daughter is still married to the king.
I still maintain that Dorne is no superpower you just have to look at the policys employed by their Prince to see it.

I think a lot of people are confusing the series with the books. Although both have the same overall goal in mind, the plots are a bit different. This thread is majorly meant for discussion on the books. Series discussion are welcome but please let's be clear abt it. It gets confusing sometimes.

Dorne is 50k soldiers strong

they were bidding their time as 1. combined strength of lannisters, high garden n maybe Freys. also they want to avoid a full scale war except they ve dragons

Abel is mance, really?
Stanis Captured nah dont think so

how many lords knew dat was fake Arya I think none knew Arya is was always behind the scenes in the North

moski5:
Dorne is 50k soldiers strong

they were bidding their time as 1. combined strength of lannisters, high garden n maybe Freys. also they want to avoid a full scale war except they ve dragons

Abel is mance, really?
Stanis Captured nah dont think so

how many lords knew dat was fake Arya I think none knew Arya is was always behind the scenes in the North

Dorne isn't 50K strong, they are barely 20k at most. The 50k is misdirection and lies perpetuated by them to make them seem stronger than they really are.

They cannot go against any of the 7 kingdoms outside of Dorne as they would be curbstomped.

Abel as Mance is a favorite theory for a reason. it has many points in its favor.

As for Fake Arya, check out the Grand Northern Conspiracy theory.

sage1000:


Dorne isn't 50K strong, they are barely 20k at most. The 50k is misdirection and lies perpetuated by them to make them seem stronger than they really are.

They cannot go against any of the 7 kingdoms outside of Dorne as they would be curbstomped.

Abel as Mance is a favorite theory for a reason. it has many points in its favor.

As for Fake Arya, check out the Grand Northern Conspiracy theory.

Abel really is Mance, its not a theory cause it actually is true. And those washer women are spearwives. Did you seriously not know this when you read it ?

moski5:
Dorne is 50k soldiers strong

they were bidding their time as 1. combined strength of lannisters, high garden n maybe Freys. also they want to avoid a full scale war except they ve dragons

Abel is mance, really?
Stanis Captured nah dont think so

how many lords knew dat was fake Arya I think none knew Arya is was always behind the scenes in the North

Dorne isnt that strong, being the least populated kingdom, with no city, most of it is desert. Some of the Northern lords either know or suspect she's fake, not that they all know she's fake.

Gbola5:


Dorne isnt that strong, being the least populated kingdom, with no city, most of it is desert. Some of the Northern lords either know or suspect she's fake, not that they all know she's fake.

I dont know y most people think Dorne isn't strong
did yu read about the Targerian that took Dorne after losing so many men in battle he won only to die few months/years later
Do not underestimate Dorne

Am curious, does anyone know the status of the person that can blow the dragon horn? A targaryen perhaps?

moski5:


I dont know y most people think Dorne isn't strong
did yu read about the Targerian that took Dorne after losing so many men in battle he won only to die few months/years later
Do not underestimate Dorne

not underestimating. In manpower they are d weakest, they survive based on trickery, misdirection and deception plus they are experts on poison

blublahd:
Am curious, does anyone know the status of the person that can blow the dragon horn? A targaryen perhaps?

Moqorro told Victarion, that all he has to do is become the owner of the horn, by bleeding himself on it or something. You ca read the Victarion TWOW chapter i posted in page 10 or so.

Gbola5:


Moqorro told Victarion, that all he has to do is become the owner of the horn, by bleeding himself on it or something. You ca read the Victarion TWOW chapter i posted in page 10 or so.

ok
here is another, has anyone thought of azor ahai to be jon snow?

moski5:


I dont know y most people think Dorne isn't strong
did yu read about the Targerian that took Dorne after losing so many men in battle he won only to die few months/years later
Do not underestimate Dorne

Yeah but you dont overestimate them. A prince of Dorne is supposed to know the military capability of Dorne. And Doran said 50,000 was an exaggeration by Daeron the Young Dragon to make his conquest of Dorne that much impressive, and the Dornish have used it to discourage foes and to make allies. There was a time in like 2005 or so, when GRRM gave an estimate of the strength of each region. He put the North Vale and Dorne at the same level ~ 40,000-50,000. Later he reduced the figures for Dorne and he later confirms that he reduced it by using that chapter in which Doran says so.

Westeros According to the semi-canon A Game of Thrones RPG and Resource Book by Guardians of Order from 2005, the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros might be able to raise the following forces: The mainland lords of the Crownlands can raise ten thousand to fifteen thousand troops, while the gold cloaks of King's Landing usually number two thousand.[1] The city also has a fleet of fifty ships. Dragonstone can raise three thousand men-at-arms and four hundred knights. The island's fleet consists of a hundred and sixty ships, including eighty galleys. Dorne could raise fifty thousand Dornishmen , according to Daeron I Targaryen 's Conquest of Dorne, during his reign (157 AC -161 AC ). However, Daeron exaggerated the quantity of his opponents to enhance his victory. The Martells have not corrected the claim in order to make Dorne appear stronger. [2] Prince Lewyn Martell led ten thousand Dornishmen in the Battle of the Trident .[3] More recently, Prince Quentyn Martell has told Queen Daenerys Targaryen that Dorne could provide her with an army of fifty thousand. [4][5] The Iron Islands can raise approximately twenty thousand men and five hundred longships. The Iron Fleet alone consists of one hundred ships which are three times larger than the standard longship, [6] however, and George R. R. Martin has indicated that the major lords of the ironborn can each float around a hundred ships. [7] A longship such as Sea Bitch has fifty oars, while Great Kraken and Iron Victory are larger.[8] The only fleets comparable to those of the Iron Islands are the royal fleet in the Crownlands and the Redwyne fleet at the Arbor .[9] The North can perhaps raise forty-five thousand soldiers, although it would take a long time to gather them from such a large region. The Reach can raise an army of between eighty thousand and hundred thousand soldiers. The Reach's navy consists of two hundred ships, including those of the Redwynes , the Shield Islands , and coastal lords. The Riverlands can raise forty-five thousand soldiers. The Stormlands can raise thirty thousand soldiers. The Vale of Arryn can raise forty-five thousand soldiers. The Westerlands can raise up to fifty thousand troops. The Lannister fleet at Lannisport consists of twenty or thirty cogs, carracks, galleys, and dromonds, while lesser lords have two or three ships for patrolling. In total, the westerman float fifty or sixty larger ships, while longships are used for coastal defense. Lord Tywin Lannister commanded twelve thousand Lannister men during the Sack of King's Landing .[10]

blublahd:

ok
here is another, has anyone thought of azor ahai to be jon snow?

"I asked for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me Snow". She had been seeing on Snow lately in her fires, plus the woods witch who told Jaeherys II that the prince that was promised would come from his line. Rhaegar is from his line, and if R+L=Jon is true, then Jon is from his line. So i belive Jon is special.

Gbola5:


"I asked for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me Snow". She had been seeing on Snow lately in her fires, plus the woods witch who told Jaeherys II that the prince that was promised would come from his line. Rhaegar is from his line, and if R+L=Jon is true, then Jon is from his line. So i belive Jon is special.

how he managed not to have the targaryen features is what GRRM should explain.
The blackfyre bastards despite being not pure targaryens had the features- Bryden Rivers comes to mind.
Or is it a case of 50:50?

I think it is more of a case of stark features overriding targarean. Although why it didn't overpower tully features is something.

Sorry but that link doesnt work again. Maybe i'll post what is in it instead