texanomaly: Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it and Seasons Greetings to those who don't.


Good to have you back LB. I see you are wasting no time.

Thanks! and you too... although in this part of Europe, Christmas is January 6th (Gregorian/Julian calendar discrepancy) we get to "enjoy" it twice lol

I see I did not come back here.

@ LB: The cosmological argument does not state that anything that exists has a cause. It states that anything that begins to exist has a cause. That's your answer right there.

Deep Sight:
I see I did not come back here.

@ LB: The cosmological argument does not state that anything that exists has a cause. It states that anything that begins to exist has a cause. That's your answer right there.

Still doesnt invalidate my arguments.......

Logicboy03:


Still doesnt invalidate my arguments.......

It does, on the bit about the cause requiring a cause.

Deep Sight:

It does, on the bit about the cause requiring a cause.

No it doesnt....

1. Everything that begins has a cause

2. The Universe began, hence it has a cause.

That's settled, but where does God come in?

Kay 17: 1. Everything that begins has a cause

2. The Universe began, hence it has a cause.

That's settled, but where does God come in?

It's just the first step in addressing those who say that the universe needs no cause.

However, by way of deductive logic, the implications are:

1. The cause could not be matter or energy of the universe itself as nothing caused could be its own cause

2. The cause would be powerful, given the scale of universal energy and matter

3. The cause would pre exist the universe.

These simple baby steps in clear reasoning will disclose a transcendent, non material, powerful cause: key ingredients of the definition of God.

maclatunji: ^Your case is no case at all. So far, I see ad hominems and no attempt to logically disprove his excellent analysis. This is an analogy of what Atheists are saying:

1. I am an intelligent being.

2. I come from nothing.


We say:

1, Nothing is zero.

2. Zero is unitelligent

Conclusion:

1. You say you come from nothing

2. Nothing is zero

3. And zero is unintelligent

4. Therefore you have no intelligence because you are essentially zero.

Rebuttal:

1. You insist you are intelligent

2. We say you must have come from something intelligent to have intelligence.

In essence, an Atheist insults himself as "nothing" everytime he says he has no creator.

As for evolution, re-read the OP again. If you do not get it, then there is little need engaging you as you might never get it.

-QED

It has already been proven that we came from nothing. Don't bother replying me. Just submit your findings to prove it wrong and win your nobel prize. Oh, I forgot..its because of such crassness theology will never receive nobel prizes. *cough cough*

Ultimus :



It has already been proven that we came from nothing.

Please refer me to the proof, I am a village id.iot, so please don't be annoyed with me or irritated or angry. Just be kind and gentle and assist poor illiterate me, help point me to the proof and who proved it.

Thank you sir.

Deep Sight:

It's just the first step in addressing those who say that the universe needs no cause.

However, by way of deductive logic, the implications are:

1. The cause could not be matter or energy of the universe itself as nothing caused could be its own cause

2. The cause would be powerful, given the scale of universal energy and matter

3. The cause would pre exist the universe.

These simple baby steps in clear reasoning will disclose a transcendent, non material, powerful cause: key ingredients of the definition of God.

^^
Deepsight, I think you are hold misconceptions about the big ban.g. The universe is said to have proceeded from a hot dense state -- a singularity. The cause of the Universe is this singularity, and that settles it.

A transcendental immaterial conscious being become irrelevant in this context.

Deep Sight:

Please refer me to the proof, I am a village id.iot, so please don't be annoyed with me or irritated or angry. Just be kind and gentle and assist poor illiterate me, help point me to the proof and who proved it.

Thank you sir.

I honestly hope the guy has the proof with which I can also arm myself

Kay 17:

^^
Deepsight, I think you are hold misconceptions about the big ban.g. The universe is said to have proceeded from a hot dense state -- a singularity. The cause of the Universe is this singularity

And it just proceeded, abracadabra! No?

And for how long that hot dense state had existed, we do not know. And why it did not "proceed" before then, or after then, but only then.

9 pages and mac is yet to say something sensible?. . . .I laugh in Arabic. . .

Deep Sight:

And it just proceeded, abracadabra! No?

And for how long that hot dense state had existed, we do not know. And why it did not "proceed" before then, or after then, but only then.

Yet that's the theory. What caused the hot dense state? More ? ? ?

Deep Sight:

And it just proceeded, abracadabra! No?

And for how long that hot dense state had existed, we do not know. And why it did not "proceed" before then, or after then, but only then.

DS, The honest answer is, as of now nobody knows for sure.

Frankly I'm tired of all these conjectures....



Btw, Ultimus was being sarcastic.

mazaje: 9 pages and mac is yet to say something sensible?. . . .I laugh in Arabic. . .

Maclatunji be like.....

^^

LWKMD!

Maclatunji never tried to debate atheists again after this thread. Nice piece of history

First off, Atheists don’t just reject god, they reject all gods.
They reject the christian god, yahweh.
They reject the Muslim god, allah.
They reject the hindu god, brahma.
They reject the greek god, zeus.
They reject deistic(deus) gods.
They reject the norse god, odin.
They reject the latin god, deus and all Gods.

DeepSight:


It's just the first step in addressing those who say that the universe needs no cause.

However, by way of deductive logic, the implications are:

1. The cause could not be matter or energy of the universe itself as nothing caused could be its own cause

2. The cause would be powerful, given the scale of universal energy and matter

3. The cause would pre exist the universe.

These simple baby steps in clear reasoning will disclose a transcendent, non material, powerful cause: key ingredients of the definition of God.

Why do you think there was only a cause responsible for all all these?
Why not different causes responsible for different things?
Look up the definition of universe- all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos.

what created or formed the universe exist inside of it not outside, anything that exist outside of universe doesn’t exist literally.

And why do you think this cause is called “god”.
You said transcendant, non material, powerful cause are the “key ingredients of the definition of God”.
but the definition you gave now is a monotheistic one, monotheist claims there own particular god is this and that.
So if you are using a monotheist definition of god shouldn’t you tell us the name of your god?
god is a title not a person, if you like put capital G, God.

This is why i call deists, monotheist sympathizers.
All the concepts and attributes you know about “God”is gotten from theists especially monotheists , they honor their gods and call them those sweet names (transcendent, non material, all powerful etc).